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Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:25:00 - [1] Ok .. As an alliance leader .. I am truly saddened by the current state of affairs that CCP has put this game into. I have played this game for years and yes I know what lag is .. and I expect lag .. but loosing synch is a whole other matter. Tonight we held a gate with about 80 - 100 people .. and 100 hostiles jumped in and local spiked to 516.. we saw 2 red targets the whole time. A couple of players tried to re-log .. over 15 minutes to do so. This is the same crap we ran into in UEJ. In fact at one point local channel was funny as people were reporting how many people they saw in local. The numbers ranged from 340 - 516 at the same time. One pilot who came jumped in after the meele started then reported that the gate was covered in reds and we were getting shot .. one of my pilots sitting happily in his ship got a mail .. it was his killmail .. This is not localized to the north either .. while waiting for my pilot to log on, I was in MSN chat with some guys in the south .. they had 500 in local .. and things were so bad that they could not employ capitals and were left just ganking ships that were stuck in space and unresponsive. That my fellow gamers is not fleet combat. This is material I believe belongs in CAOD as none of the general EVE population in empire will experience it. They have introduced so much stuff to 0.0 warefare and the servers simply cannot take it. It is unplayable and time and a gain we have proved that the ships jumping into the system get load priority. Therefore it is impossible to effectively prevent a large hostile fleet from entering your system. Yeah .. I will get flamed by the 12 year olds for this post .. but I am at the point that I really don't care anymore .. I have filed a petition on behalf of my alliance at GM request but after a week of no response I have notified my people that in 24 hours we will commnence individual petitions from all of the affected members of the alliances affected to get their attention. While it is fine that they can cut and paste a "It takes time to investigate" post, so many ships have been lost as to alter the course of the campaigns in the mean time. As for the "email ccp directly" .. been there .. done that .. no response in 4 days .. I am so disconcerted with this that I am actively petitioning the GM's to the point that they will prob ban me .. and I am willing to get banned to make a point on behalf of the alliances that are completely fed up with the state of affairs. When I have people that i have flown with for years throw up their hands and cancel their accounts en masse .. I feel I have to do something. If I fail to respond to this thread it is prob because they have banned me to shut me up :) I luv EVE .. I just want it fixed
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:41:00 - [2] Originally by: XxAngelxX Tip: Stop whining, teach your pilots how to deal with the lag, it is no different now to how it was a over a year ago when G + IRON tried to jump into ec- camped by ascn and bob. LOL - typical .. cause the problem benifits the aggressor atm I WILL USE BIG LETTERS CAUSE APPAERENTLY YOU CAN'T READ ... DESYNCH ... NOT LAG IS THE ISSUE HERE MORON ..
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:47:00 - [3] Originally by: Ggrimreaper Originally by: Fate Decided All i see is a bunch of bob pets crying because noone is here to save them. FFS HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY THIS BOB ARE RED BOB WILL REMAIN RED TO SPARTA Oh yeah .. and we don't need saving m8 .. no go back to jacking off in your corner...
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Fate Decided Quote: Oh yeah .. and we don't need saving m8 .. no go back to jacking off in your corner... Thats why you sided with MC right? Cuz u didnt need any saving Give me a break a) Post with your main you ball-less noob b) We never flew with MC and the last time sparta / MC were in a system together is was a capital fight where we were shooting each other :P Now off you go to finish grade school ....
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.28 23:55:00 - [5] Yay .. GM'S just closed all my petitions .. and threatened me .. They are welcome to come meet me on my TS to discuss .. if they have the nads ..
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 00:09:00 - [6] Originally by: XxAngelxX I agree in some ways, but, in many others I disagree. CCP even had a Dev post in our thread asking about it, they clearly are working on it. It might not be as simple as it sounds, after all they are only human and the game is a cumulative work. So the point is, suck it up and deal with it. I'm sure they're fully aware of it and are trying their best to fix it. Tbh the reply was a little harsh because all I see is whine from you guys. Don't you see this is not a Sparta / Tri discussion ? .. it happened today in V7-MID where Tri was not even involved ..
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 00:25:00 - [7] Edited by: Harleigh on 29/07/2007 00:32:09 Originally by: XxAngelxX Originally by: Harleigh Originally by: XxAngelxX I agree in some ways, but, in many others I disagree. CCP even had a Dev post in our thread asking about it, they clearly are working on it. It might not be as simple as it sounds, after all they are only human and the game is a cumulative work. So the point is, suck it up and deal with it. I'm sure they're fully aware of it and are trying their best to fix it. Tbh the reply was a little harsh because all I see is whine from you guys. Don't you see this is not a Sparta / Tri discussion ? .. it happened today in V7-MID where Tri was not even involved .. Yeah, I see that, but then I know why you're whining and it's because you don't do PVP as a "career" in eve. What do you expect CCP to do? Miraculously patch next week and make the game perfectly playable after so many years where lag plays a huge factor in fleet battles? I've just learnt to deal with it, my main gripe is with these huge forum whines about it, if you don't like it, don't do it, and spare the rest of us from these threads So "Shut up and don't complain about unplayable conditions" is the appropriate way to deal with it? I tried that and regulars in Eve-o know that i don't post for the hell of it .. but it is simply not getting fixed. Yeah .. makes me the target of a lot of flaming .. but I am simply so fed up that I can't keep my mouth shut any longer .. You do have the option of ignoring this thread just like you can ignore the game problems apparently :)
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 00:35:00 - [8] Originally by: Martin Mckenna jump into them then. the way you are saying it its like the people jumping in have the advantage lol. try and test it. im sure you will lose alot more ships doing it and more lag. its sad to see that lag is that bad but thats eve tbh. YES .. the people jumping in have the advantage atm IF the Node is under heavy load.. it has been proven .. Now ... as for doing the jumping in .. how we supposed to lock down a system to do pos warefare if we have to wait for the hostiles to jump in first then jump behind them Sherlock ?
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 00:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Martin Mckenna Originally by: Shin Ra Lag happens, get used to it. Desyncs happened (till the recent patch?) for weeks if not months. If you had been fighting at all, instead of cowering in your little corner of space, meybe you would have realised that. tbh there is no need for replys like that aswell. lags bad and i can understand why sparta are ****ed but they need to remember that we also get the same lag and desync He is right .. I do not want this decaying into a personal attack on Tri or any other alliance .. they are just playing the game as we are .. bash a dumb post yes but Tri as an entity still have my respect and I am not blaming them for any of this .. my beef is with game mechanics ..
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 16:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Darko1107 Quote: Ok .. As an alliance leader .. I am truly saddened by the current state of affairs that CCP has put this game into. What relevance does you being an alliance leader have on being "truely saddened" by the current state of affairs? Did you just chuck that line in to make yourself look big? Ok .. As someone who never plays eve, and just posts on the forums, i am truely saddened by the ENDLESS AMOUNT OF THREADS MOANING ABOUT LAG. What do you people think that if you make 50 million threads about desynchs/lag that it will suddenly, asif by magic, just disappear? CCP have known about these issues for years. Sparta were all happy just sitting in northern dek napping alliances, then unnapping them and napping new ones so they could avoid fights. If you dont want fights, why does it matter if they have lag in them or not anyway. And whats with the "truely saddened" stuff, bit dramatic it isnt it? If you are truely saddened then why are you still playing. Ok .. you got me there darko :).. As someone who put holds the record for loosing their entire space in 1 day then setting all their residents red within 48- 72 hrs .. I should bow before you and bask in your greatness and wisdom of opinion. Maybe if you had the nads to actually put up a fight for your homeland you would understand the fustration some of us are experiencing. Did I nap some people? .. yes .. people that turned out to be a hell of a lot better and honorable allies then you guys ever were and I do not regret any of it. Does it mean we run from a fight ? .. um .. not according to our killboards and the fact that we have been shooting people non stop since we deployed to fountain. It takes more guts to go neutral and stand to defend what we knew was going to be a backlash then to pack up and run to the other side of the galaxy like others did. That said, back to the original context of the thread. I introduced the thread in such a manner as "an alliance leader" to indicate that this is an issue that is beyond the scope of a single player or even corporation. It is fustrerating as a leader as people look to you for answers and guidance. I am tired of defending CCP.. it is that simple. As it stands today I have to explain to people that if we get into a situation where we really need to defend something, the game will not allow us to camp a gate and lock down the system. We have to either a) stay in a pos and wait for the hostiles to jump in and let the node settle down before we can do anything about it or b) we have to leave the system and jump in on top of the hostiles camping the gate. How in any way shape or form does this constitute tactical soundness? How is it that I have to explain to people that yeah.. the game is busted? .. I can spew techical babble like the fact that CCP did not follow recommendations from vendors on how to set up the hardware .. or they fixed the jump in lag problem by prioritizing node resources to people being handed off to a node leaving squat for the people already there. But everyone is right .. it is not going to get fixed overnight. So .. the question is .. do I just sit here and, as some other contributors to the thread have suggested, "just deal with it" or do I put my opinions out there knowing dam well that it will give every opportunity in the world for people to flame Sparta. I chose the latter cause quite frankly I have never backed away from what I believe in. So many people are trying to make this about Sparta or that we lost a MS .. or that we are getting conquered or something. People .. we knew the MS was a risk from day 1 . we took it .. not a big deal .. when it went into the cooker we already had the resources to put out 2 more. We are not whining about an invasion either .. the fight that precipitated this thread from me actually occured over 18 jumps away from sparta space where we were assisting an ally.

Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:59:00 - [11] Edited by: Harleigh on 30/07/2007 21:00:17 Well .... One week now since I have had any response at all from CCP on my petition that they asked me to file on behalf of Sparta. One week of not even so much as a " we are still looking into it" .. To top it off .. I have been warned that if I even create a petition to ask about it or instruct my alliance to file individual petitions that I face being banned. They know there is an issue, 6 pages of postings and comments from people on both sides of the equation confirm it .. but I don't even get the curtosy of a reach-around from the GM's as this is being looked into. And BTW .. yes i tried email .. 4 days .. no response .. Problem is if they admit it ... it opens a hell of a can of worms... Thankyou for all of you who have seen past the banter and politics to actually post on the thread subject. Time and time again I hear nothing but "that's it ..I quit" from people who are used to lag and fleet warfare .. but this is different. People are even private evemailing me with stories and support and for that I am gratefull. Everyone here knows that the 0.0 alliance people are a different breed. We are among the most active, vocal and devoted people in the game .. and it is these people that we are loosing in droves. CCP pushed rev 2 out the door before it was ready because they knew they needed to do something to stop the exodus of senior pilots. This has only compounded the issue. It is these skilled people, the FC's and leaders that we are loosing that is the truely sad part. Reading through this thread it is evidenced that the fustration is widespead, and keep in mind that only a small percentage of pilots actually read and respond in the forums. You would think that if the devs or senior staff were even bothering to monitor the forums .. they would pleasure us with at least some kind of response .. but most likely they are all sitting in some plush boardroom scratching their heads thinking .. WTF we do now ... I KNOW! .. TECH III bling bling ! .. That will distract them! Dunno if anyone noticed .. but server was setting new records constantly for a while .. 15K users .. then 20 .. 25 .. 30 .. umm ... 30 ... 25 .. 30 .. noticed that it has stagnated even with the influx of new players? .. Coincidence ? .... CCP .. if you want to at least have the decency to update me in private .. you have my email ... I would welcome anything you have to say on the matter.
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:30:00 - [12] Ok .. got a response back from one of my individual petitions .. ----------------------------------- Hi, Thank you for contacting customer support. I apologize for the late reply. I understand this can be frustrating but we unfortunately can not take responsibility for such losses for we have no verification that this was a mistake on your part or not. We regrettably may not take your word for it for we must in all cases use our logs for verification. I am not saying we do not trust you or think you are lying to us, we simply may not take the word of any player some lie when others don't. Our reimbursement policy (http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/reimbursment.asp) forbids us to replace ships and items lost to unverifiable bugs as it would open the window to massive exploiting of the petition system and undermine the overall fairness of the game. After reviewing this case, I'm sorry to say that I can not overturn the previous decision, as it was made in accordance with our reimbursement policy: 'No reimbursement requests are guaranteed to be fulfilled. The general rule is that we must be able to verify that your loss should not have occurred during normal game play.' http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/reimbursment.asp Without server side verification of the matter, we can not act on your behalf. Our apologies for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Best regards, GM xxxxx EVE Customer Support Team ---------------------------- Sound like a cut and paste ? My response .. WRONG FRIGGING ANSWER .. go back and try again .. .or at least cut and paste something new so it is at least interesting to read instead of a complete waste of my time .. If you think I will let this topic die .. you got another thing comming ...
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 01:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Mistress Suffering Unfortunately you will just be deleted for discussing GM responses in forum. It is a well known fact that EVE really doesn't handle large fleets well at all despite the fact that grandiose battles seem to be the endgame content touted by EVE's developers. I very much wish they would spend more time working on solutions and optimizations for this instead of garbage like heat and walking in stations. Continue to let CCP know what your priorities are as a player (better yet, as a great big group of players) but recognize that if you don't do it carefully, you will simply be discarded. Oh and yes, Sparta's past politics were suicidal, but that's not really the issue here Yeah i forgot you can't discuss GM reponses you can't discuss moderation you can't escalate you can't get it fixed you can't a GM to even acknowledge this issue or thread Geez .. starting to sound a lot like this thing in R/L called marriage .. :P
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Ramireza Originally by: Harleigh Edited by: Harleigh on 01/08/2007 00:33:46 Ok .. As an alliance leader .. I am truly saddened by the current state of affairs that CCP has put this game into. I have played this game for years and yes I know what lag is .. and I expect lag .. but loosing synch is a whole other matter. Tonight we held a gate with about 80 - 100 people .. and 100 hostiles jumped in and local spiked to 516.. we saw 2 red targets the whole time. A couple of players tried to re-log .. over 15 minutes to do so. This is the same crap we ran into in UEJ. In fact at one point local channel was funny as people were reporting how many people they saw in local. The numbers ranged from 340 - 516 at the same time. One pilot who came jumped in after the meele started then reported that the gate was covered in reds and we were getting shot .. one of my pilots sitting happily in his ship got a mail .. it was his killmail .. This is not localized to the north either .. while waiting for my pilot to log on, I was in MSN chat with some guys in the south .. they had 500 in local .. and things were so bad that they could not employ capitals and were left just ganking ships that were stuck in space and unresponsive. That my fellow gamers is not fleet combat. This is material I believe belongs in CAOD as none of the general EVE population in empire will experience it. They have introduced so much stuff to 0.0 warefare and the servers simply cannot take it. It is unplayable and time and a gain we have proved that the ships jumping into the system get load priority. Therefore it is impossible to effectively prevent a large hostile fleet from entering your system. Yeah .. I will get flamed by the 12 year olds for this post .. but I am at the point that I really don't care anymore .. I have filed a petition on behalf of my alliance at GM request but after a week of no response I have notified my people that in 24 hours we will commnence individual petitions from all of the affected members of the alliances affected to get their attention. While it is fine that they can cut and paste a "It takes time to investigate" post, so many ships have been lost as to alter the course of the campaigns in the mean time. As for the "email ccp directly" .. been there .. done that .. no response in 4 days .. I am so disconcerted with this that I am actively petitioning the GM's to the point that they will prob ban me .. and I am willing to get banned to make a point on behalf of the alliances that are completely fed up with the state of affairs. When I have people that i have flown with for years throw up their hands and cancel their accounts en masse .. I feel I have to do something. If I fail to respond to this thread it is prob because they have banned me to shut me up :) I luv EVE .. I just want it fixed You want (nearly) lagfree Fleetbattles with over 500 ppl in lokal? Dream on, thats not possible. CCP cant fix this. But maybe we : WY this "Oh we get attacked, lets call help to defend our systems!". Cause this leads to : "Damm, they called all their friends, we need MORE ppl to attack them, QUICK!". This turns a possible 80 vs 80 to a 250 vs 250. Wow ... so I am supposed to ask my friends not to come and help in hopes that the hostiles won't bring friends to come attack so that there are not too many people in local? What ***** U smoking .. cause I want some :P
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Princess Jodi Originally by: dan drorgar If you are trying to defend a POS, why fight them at the gate or elsewhere in the system? Your analogy (mediaeval castles) is wrong too, you should fight them at the POS ... If EVE wasn't so broken, your advantage at the gates (= bubbles, lag, desyncs, general randomness) would not be greater than your advantage at the POS (= guns, EW batteries, POS shields). I think this approach is the proper answer. They are comming to kill the POS. Any other type of incursions into space are just harrassment missions. So when big fights happen, fight at the POS, not the gates. When things are smaller in scale, hunt and snipe targets in system. Sorry .. but I find it rather humerous that people are suggesting that you just openly allow the hostiles to enter a system because the game is screwed then try and take them out while they start bashing thier target and sniping your station .. The Goal here is to prevent them from getting into your system in the first place so that they can't take out the jammer and jump in capitals .. Anything less then the ability to do so heavily favors the agressor .. which is back asswards from common sense. The suggestion has been made for aggressive defense.. I whole heartedly agree in this strategy .. but there are some situations, where you are defending a fixed item that makes that strategy not viable.
Harleigh Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 23:18:00 - [16] Caution .. troll material * :P Ok .. desynch issues are just a figment of our imagination according to CCP .. They are happening in the north in big battles They are happening in the south in big battles (was brought to my attention there was a ~ 200 man bob fleet that desynched at a gate and took massive losses... petition has been apparently filed on that ..(would luv a Bob member to confirm this please) They are happening in empire and small squads as evidenced by the people that have piped up in this thread. And it is happening a lot. Today .. Seleene puts up a thread .. "We were told everyone was clear.. then reports of the Aeon taking damage" (apologize for the sumerized quote) .. Of course the question is .. was it desynch or was it a clean kill? The Answer .... http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/SedithDesynched.jpg Does that look like the pictures the other side is posting ? That does not mean anyone is questioning the integrity of the pilots involved, however it does graphically show what people are talking about when they cannot see the hostiles. <<THIS IS NOT LAG PEOPLE >> CCP Devs .. how many hundreds of posts and thousands of views need to occur on this thread before you will bless us with your pressence and your logs that show none of this is real and it is just a problem with a lot of peoples ISP or client causeing this? BTW .. think it is going on like 10 days with ZERO response on the initial petition and no personal response on my email... and counting.... Man if I took 10 days to get back to a customer I would be looking for new employment ..

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