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murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:53:00 - [1] The concept: battleship class recons, but filling a role that the current recons can not: fleet EW. These ships would have less HP and much less cap than standard BS, and have no tanking bonuses, only one damage bonus, with the rest of the bonuses going towards making them a better fleet EW platform. Layouts: Recon BS: Caldari: 5/8/3 4 launcher 4 turret hardpoints 6k shields, 2k armor, 3k structure 5% missile damage 10% ecm strength per BS level 10% ecm strength, 20% ecm optimal per recon level 3000 cap, 50m3 drone bay Amarr: 5/6/5 4 turret hardpoints 2k shields, 6k armor, 3k structure 10% large laser damage, 5% nos range per BS level 20% TD effectiveness, 20% TD optimal per recon level 4000 cap, 75m3 drone bay Minmatar: 6/7/3 4 turret 4 missile hardpoints 4k shields, 4k armor, 3k structure 5% large projectile damage, 50% web range per BS level 20% TP effectiveness, 20% TP optimal per recon level 3000 cap, 75m3 drone bay Gallente: 5/7/4 4 launcher 4 turret hardpoints 2500 shields, 5500 armor, 3k structure 5% large hybrid damage, 20% warp disruptor range per BS level 5% sensor damp effectiveness, 20% damp optimal range per level 3500 cap, 250m3 drone bay Role bonus: 99% reduction to covert ops cloak II CPU per level. Yes, they're larger versions of existing recons, however, if you look at the designs closely, you'll notice that each one is unique. The Caldari ship gets a double ECM strength bonus, and an optimal bonus. Pretty heavy stuff for a BS that can cloak. The Amarr ship gets double size damage bonus (compared to the rest of the ships) and a nos bonus, which could be considered a 'split weapons bonus', as you'd have to drop some guns for nos, but it adds in an interesting option for Amarr. Cloaking Bhaalgorn anyone? The Minmatar ship is the only one with six highs. It suffers a bit due to it's more evenly distributed HP between armor/shields, but it has the potential to deal out some huge dps with it's extra high slot and variety of missile/turret hardpoints. Plus it gets a great TP bonus for those rage torps no one uses. The web bonus on this ship is just evil. Gallente get a large drone bay and average EW bonuses. While it doesn't have the extra damage amount of the Amarr ship, or the double EW strength bonus of the Caldari ship, or the extra high slot of the Minmatar ship, the combination of the Gallente design points make it a very effective design when put together in the same place. The large drone bay won't help much in fleet, and the drones are unbonused for damage or HP, but the flexibility will help with short range combat where the Gallente design will be lacking with its relative lack of DPS either with hybrids or with launchers fitted in the highs. These ships will be fragile and slow by BS standards, and not have much endurance in a head to head fight, but they'll make great long range EW platforms and provide a good ship to operate deep within enemy lines, allowing a single person to attack larger targets solo while surrounded by large amounts of hostiles. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
NoNah Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.29 06:59:00 - [2] Thats the way, u-hu! Anyway, feels like they add nothing tbh. Just a beefed up recon. Post count: 87698
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.29 07:15:00 - [3] Originally by: NoNah Thats the way, u-hu! Anyway, feels like they add nothing tbh. Just a beefed up recon. Yep. That guy's concepts were quite aweful. Recon BS with tanking bonuses? Don't think so. If you look carefully at the stats, you'll see how the designs strengths and weaknesses are evident. And yes, they do add something: long range fleet EW platforms. Each one get's what amounts to a 100% EW range increase with max skills. No other ship does this while providing a BS amount of HP for fleet combat. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
Parallax 7D Aliastra	Posted - 2007.07.29 07:15:00 - [4] Edited by: Parallax 7D on 29/07/2007 07:17:17 Originally by: murder one These ships will be fragile and slow by BS standards, and not have much endurance in a head to head fight Who needs armor when your enemy can't hit you? These seem like mega-uber-gank-factories. If you made it so that they had the powergrid size of a cruiser, so they couldn't fit a heavy nos, then I think it's a great idea. But they wouldn't be used in fleets like you imagine. They would be the first to be targeted, and a few thousand HP would make no difference. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Marge: But, Mr. Ambassador, how are we going to get home? Ambassador: Beats me. Try getting a job and earning some money. That's what I did. By the way, ambassador's taken.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.29 07:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Parallax 7D Edited by: Parallax 7D on 29/07/2007 07:17:17 Originally by: murder one These ships will be fragile and slow by BS standards, and not have much endurance in a head to head fight Who needs armor when your enemy can't hit you? These seem like mega-uber-gank-factories. If you made it so that they had the powergrid size of a cruiser, so they couldn't fit a heavy nos, then I think it's a great idea. But they wouldn't be used in fleets like you imagine. They would be the first to be targeted, and a few thousand HP would make no difference. Shhh, you're bringing too much attention to the real use. Keep talking about their fictional 'intended' role so they'll be implemented and I can continue with my evil plan! Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
Zhaine Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:09:00 - [6] Obviously the detail needs fine tuning (I'd say give them T1 levels of HP), but surprisingly I actually quite like these ideas. Certainly the best implementation of T2 BS I've seen proposed. Neither uber-DPS or uber-Tanked, but still useful. Out of interest would they have T1 or T2 level resists? - - - - - - - - - -
Unfamed II FinFleet	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:18:00 - [7] Just say no to this BS size recon bull**. Recons are fine as they are, you just want beefed up recons, with some solopwnsauce added. . . . . . . Originally by:** Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
achoura	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:26:00 - [8] Edited by: achoura on 29/07/2007 10:26:46 To keep it short: there is not one single thing you could do in that caldari bs that you cannot already do in a rook, bar tank, which as you may have noticed, is the single thing recons are not ment to do. P.S Standard recons already have a gimped cap, their warp cap amount is already higher than other ships.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.29 10:39:00 - [9] Another fine version of solo pwn mobile. A HAC-class power, with BC-class HP and T2 resistances, capable of fitting large guns and having recon EW bonuses like Nos/web/damp/Disruptor? Less agile? Not a problem. Get into region at night, afk in systems all day cloaked and pop up to kill npcers or travelers. T2 BS should be worse in all-out PvP then T1 BS. It should tank better, yes. It should have uber gang benefits so one t2 BS will be like 3-4 CSes with gang mods. But it should not deal any damage or do any EW. Otherwise, its gonna be like this: 3 T2 BS jump into 15 ship camp, 2 mins later you see 15 enemy wrecks. Fun? No way. ---
lyrenna Caldari The Renaissance	Posted - 2007.07.29 12:48:00 - [10] Originally by: murder one 250m3 drone bay btw why the gallente version is a uber solopwnmobile === when you armor tank a raven god kills a kitten. ===

Sun Paktu Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.07.29 13:38:00 - [11] The caldari don't need one, they've benifitted from the scorp long enough And I'd say more drone space please - would be nice. See you in space. -Sun Paktu, Paktu Kiith'Sa and co-founder
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.29 13:40:00 - [12] These designs are a joke tbh. Just compare the minmatar vs the amarr. lol. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.29 14:44:00 - [13] Originally by: madaluap These designs are a joke tbh. Just compare the minmatar vs the amarr. lol. Well, being webbed from 120km is one thing, but being nossed from same range is already ---
Kunming adeptus gattacus Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.07.29 14:44:00 - [14] Could add EW back into fleet fights, though the bonus' need to opt towards range rather than efficiency and forget about warp disruptor, nos and web bonus thats recon cruisers game.. Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Lance Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.29 14:49:00 - [15] Originally by: n0thing Originally by: madaluap These designs are a joke tbh. Just compare the minmatar vs the amarr. lol. Well, being webbed from 120km is one thing, but being nossed from same range is already Originally by: Murder One 5% nos range per BS level umm... I would think that the largest nos range would go to 30km or so, 40km with officer nos or something. Then again, thats not much more than you can get with a curse, and without an effectiveness bonus, it is left with being the Curse's inferior in nos amount, AND range... from what I can tell. Being a Fleet Commander and a Arbitrator pilot are the same thing - The only difference being that the Fleet Commander commands other people, and the people actually listen to him.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.29 16:16:00 - [16] Edited by: Aramendel on 29/07/2007 16:15:59 No. The amarr, gallente and caldari versions would be so overpowered it wouldn't even be funny. Amarr: optimal of 172k TDs with max skills and 1 EW rig. Say hello to 1 enemy turret ship disabled per medslot Caldari: 75% chance to jam an 21 sensorstrength target per racial jammer Gallente: 73% chance to dampen any sniperfitted bs at 150k well below 100k targeting range per damp. 86% with 1 EW range rig.
ToxicFire Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.07.29 17:02:00 - [17] I saw the thread and instantly though no, I read the thread I still think no A BS that can fit a covops cloak would just be abused, theres a possibility once the issue of afk cloakers has been fixed but until then NO! Sig removed as it lacks EVE-related content. Mail [email protected] if you have questions. -Hango
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.30 02:23:00 - [18] Originally by: madaluap These designs are a joke tbh. Just compare the minmatar vs the amarr. lol. Yeah, maybe the Minmatar design needs to be buffed some. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.30 02:51:00 - [19] Originally by: madaluap These designs are a joke tbh. Just compare the minmatar vs the amarr. lol. I think i liked the other thread more. I know its a Large Recon and all but why the hell do people always associate recons and cloaks. There is something titled "Combat Recon Ship" Example is a Curse: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Why does everyone talk about adding and Heavy Recon ship and giving it a Cloaking bonus. Why can't it just be a larger BS that has the Recon Bonus' or a special version of it. It doesn't have to be a cloaker. _________________________________________
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.30 03:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Zaethiel Edited by: Zaethiel on 30/07/2007 02:54:22 Originally by: madaluap These designs are a joke tbh. Just compare the minmatar vs the amarr. lol. I think i liked the other thread more. I know its a Large Recon and all but why the hell do people always associate recons and cloaks. There is something titled "Combat Recon Ship" Example is a Curse: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Why does everyone talk about adding and Heavy Recon ship and giving it a Cloaking bonus. Why can't it just be a larger BS that has the Recon Bonus' or a special version of it. It doesn't have to be a cloaker. And btw that Gallente Ship is rediculous. No other ship in eve other than a capital ship would stand a chance vs it. You could probably solo gangs of people at a time with it np. Then just dump the cloaking ability and keep everything else. The Gallente ship is far from overpowered. It will probably do the least DPS of any of the four designs. Amarr gets a 10% dps bonus instead of Gallente's 5%, the Gal ship doesn't get a drone DPS bonus, Minmatar get an extra high slot for turret/launcher combos and Caldari get a great missile damage bonus, and a double ECM strength bonus, all in a battleship package. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.

Lance Fighter	Posted - 2007.07.30 04:18:00 - [21] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Zaethiel Edited by: Zaethiel on 30/07/2007 02:54:22 Originally by: madaluap These designs are a joke tbh. Just compare the minmatar vs the amarr. lol. I think i liked the other thread more. I know its a Large Recon and all but why the hell do people always associate recons and cloaks. There is something titled "Combat Recon Ship" Example is a Curse: Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tracking Disruptor effectiveness and 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 40% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer range and 20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount per level Why does everyone talk about adding and Heavy Recon ship and giving it a Cloaking bonus. Why can't it just be a larger BS that has the Recon Bonus' or a special version of it. It doesn't have to be a cloaker. And btw that Gallente Ship is rediculous. No other ship in eve other than a capital ship would stand a chance vs it. You could probably solo gangs of people at a time with it np. Then just dump the cloaking ability and keep everything else. The Gallente ship is far from overpowered. It will probably do the least DPS of any of the four designs. Amarr gets a 10% dps bonus instead of Gallente's 5%, the Gal ship doesn't get a drone DPS bonus, Minmatar get an extra high slot for turret/launcher combos and Caldari get a great missile damage bonus, and a double ECM strength bonus, all in a battleship package. That does not stop the gallente one from damping you, and keeping at... ohh, 30-40km with a set of t2 heavies. The problem is that nothing can KILL it, 1v1. Being a Fleet Commander and a Arbitrator pilot are the same thing - The only difference being that the Fleet Commander commands other people, and the people actually listen to him.
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.30 04:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Lance Fighter That does not stop the gallente one from damping you, and keeping at... ohh, 30-40km with a set of t2 heavies. The problem is that nothing can KILL it, 1v1. Plenty of stuff can kill it 1v1. You're just not smart enough to sort it out. It's just like how an Arazu or Lachesis isn't a solo pwnmobile. Worse yet, a BS doesn't have the speed or agility of an Arazu/Lach to keep distance at will with a speed fit and MWD. And if you look at the cap sizes of each ship, if you fit an MWD on it, the cap will be all but crippled, as their cap sizes are very small for a battleship. Additionally, a set of T2 heavies won't be doing any more DPS to a target than the same set of drones from a Geddon or Typhoon. It doesn't get a drone DPS bonus. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
Mo adib	Posted - 2007.07.30 05:02:00 - [23] dear god that tech 2 nos damper domi would be an absolute nightmare.... forget nano ships when you can lock em down from afar and turn there locktime into weeks
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:24:00 - [24] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Lance Fighter That does not stop the gallente one from damping you, and keeping at... ohh, 30-40km with a set of t2 heavies. The problem is that nothing can KILL it, 1v1. Plenty of stuff can kill it 1v1. You're just not smart enough to sort it out. It's just like how an Arazu or Lachesis isn't a solo pwnmobile. Worse yet, a BS doesn't have the speed or agility of an Arazu/Lach to keep distance at will with a speed fit and MWD. And if you look at the cap sizes of each ship, if you fit an MWD on it, the cap will be all but crippled, as their cap sizes are very small for a battleship. Additionally, a set of T2 heavies won't be doing any more DPS to a target than the same set of drones from a Geddon or Typhoon. It doesn't get a drone DPS bonus. Arazu dont have combined of 10k HP with skills. Oh and moreover and has next to no DPS, thus can be killed even in smart cruiser. But such BS wouldnt die to even BC since he can get his 5 heavy drones out and add some of the large turret pwn sauce. ---
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.07.30 07:59:00 - [25] Originally by: n0thing Originally by: murder one Originally by: Lance Fighter That does not stop the gallente one from damping you, and keeping at... ohh, 30-40km with a set of t2 heavies. The problem is that nothing can KILL it, 1v1. Plenty of stuff can kill it 1v1. You're just not smart enough to sort it out. It's just like how an Arazu or Lachesis isn't a solo pwnmobile. Worse yet, a BS doesn't have the speed or agility of an Arazu/Lach to keep distance at will with a speed fit and MWD. And if you look at the cap sizes of each ship, if you fit an MWD on it, the cap will be all but crippled, as their cap sizes are very small for a battleship. Additionally, a set of T2 heavies won't be doing any more DPS to a target than the same set of drones from a Geddon or Typhoon. It doesn't get a drone DPS bonus. Arazu dont have combined of 10k HP with skills. Oh and moreover and has next to no DPS, thus can be killed even in smart cruiser. But such BS wouldnt die to even BC since he can get his 5 heavy drones out and add some of the large turret pwn sauce. Arazus live because they can dictate range. A BS like this wouldn't be able to dictate range very much, if at all, and would be just as vulnerable to cruisers/hacs/BCs etc. as Arazus are to AFs. Inties have a hard time with damp ships, as their lock range is increadably small as it is, but once you have more than one target fighting a damp ship, having to split damps between targets just dumps their effectiveness in the dirt. Putting a BS sized MWD on a ship like the above design with it's extremely small capacitor (for a BS) and without using a heavy injector (grid/cpu might be an issue here), it would be very hard for such a ship to survive against smaller ships. Smaller meaning anything but another non-MWD battleship. Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:03:00 - [26] Cruiser isnt a problem if you got a web, full of EW and 5 heavy T2 drones. Oh and AB thing isnt needed, you can always cloak. ---
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.30 08:03:00 - [27] Originally by: murder one Gallente: 5/7/4 4 launcher 4 turret hardpoints 2500 shields, 5500 armor, 3k structure 5% large hybrid damage, 20% warp disruptor range per BS level 5% sensor damp effectiveness, 20% damp optimal range per level 3500 cap, 250m3 drone bay Role bonus: 99% reduction to covert ops cloak II CPU per level. You MUST be kidding.
n0thing omen.	Posted - 2007.07.30 10:14:00 - [28] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Originally by: murder one Gallente: 5/7/4 4 launcher 4 turret hardpoints 2500 shields, 5500 armor, 3k structure 5% large hybrid damage, 20% warp disruptor range per BS level 5% sensor damp effectiveness, 20% damp optimal range per level 3500 cap, 250m3 drone bay Role bonus: 99% reduction to covert ops cloak II CPU per level. You MUST be kidding. Read some of his posts above, he mentioned something about that hes not THAT serious. Prolly a revenge thread after Megat and EANM story. ---


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