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Why Is Bob Losing? Part III: The Region's Not That Nice

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TrevorReznik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:27:00 - [301] Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Kola XXX ...you paying attention in game right now ?? hehe i'm at work, so tell me: how many POSes did you kill? yes I would like an update as well for the at work crew .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy I sure hope you have alts because your main sure hasn't been fighting goons lately.
Lee Bian Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:29:00 - [302] Originally by: TrevorReznik I sure hope you have alts because your main sure hasn't been fighting goons lately. yes he has on caod
Chairmen Mao	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:30:00 - [303] Originally by: TrevorReznik Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Kola XXX ...you paying attention in game right now ?? hehe i'm at work, so tell me: how many POSes did you kill? yes I would like an update as well for the at work crew .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy I sure hope you have alts because your main sure hasn't been fighting goons lately. you're right this is a cap ship char. I have lots of accounts...couple goon ones too o/ thx for the buisness
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:32:00 - [304] Originally by: TrevorReznik Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Kola XXX ...you paying attention in game right now ?? hehe i'm at work, so tell me: how many POSes did you kill? yes I would like an update as well for the at work crew .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy I sure hope you have alts because your main sure hasn't been fighting goons lately. you're right this is a cap ship char. I have lots of accounts...couple goon ones too o/ thx for the buisness.ooops on caod
Nlewis GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:45:00 - [305] Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Nlewis Originally by: Lee Bian Originally by: Kola XXX ...you paying attention in game right now ?? hehe i'm at work, so tell me: how many POSes did you kill? yes I would like an update as well for the at work crew .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy lol
Johnfromshipping Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.07.30 18:54:00 - [306] Originally by: Kola XXX .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy What good is all the isk in the universe if it can't help your alliance to pop the enemy POSs or stop the enemy from popping your alliance POSs?
Sasha Evergreen Gallente Sand Castle Generals	Posted - 2007.07.30 19:07:00 - [307] Originally by: Chairmen Mao you're right this is a [bob] cap ship char. I have lots of accounts...couple goon ones too o/ thx for the buisness Making sure you can stay in the winning team eh? Not suprising from members of bob, they're full of members who joined the winning side after their own defeat.
Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2007.07.30 19:25:00 - [308] Edited by: Jacque Custeau on 30/07/2007 19:28:28 James you make some good points, but it gets drowned in so much imagery. Would love to see a James vs Farjung debate on EvE-TV. Someone should make it happen. I like the way you analyzed the end game of goons vs that of BoB. Everyone in the GBC say that the goal of the Goons is to ruin the game for everyone. Thanks for setting the record straight, because in 4+ years of EvE play I was always concvinced that this is what Evolution was up to, not Goons. -------------------
James Grand Phoenix Navy Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:30:00 - [309] Originally by: James 315 And so the Goons fight for freedom of all You do realize that Goons have explicitly made it their official alliance policy to try to ruin EVE for other people in order to drive them away from the game, right? Yay Freedom Fighters! -------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed in my posts are entirely my own.
Gentle Glide Silent Scream	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:34:00 - [310] Owned. Come to Rancer.

Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.30 20:52:00 - [311] Originally by: James Grand Originally by: James 315 And so the Goons fight for freedom of all You do realize that Goons have explicitly made it their official alliance policy to try to ruin EVE for other people in order to drive them away from the game, right? Yay Freedom Fighters! This is pretty much a 100% accurate description of our alliance. We receive isk prizes for making people cancel their subscriptions, true story.
ForumPosterAlt HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2007.07.30 21:07:00 - [312] Originally by: James Grand Originally by: James 315 And so the Goons fight for freedom of all You do realize that Goons have explicitly made it their official alliance policy to try to ruin EVE for other people in order to drive them away from the game, right? Yay Freedom Fighters! YEAH I MEAN JUST LOOK AT THE SOUTHERN MAP SEE ALL THAT RED YEAH GOONSWARM WILL EASILY SWALLOW THAT UP AFTER THEY KICK BOB BACK TO DELVE SINGLEHANDEDLY All humor aside, that actually IS SirMolle's aspirations. Literally. And the only way that goons intend to be freedom fighters is to free their enemies from those damned annoyingly cramped ships and pods. James is wrong yes but so is the idea that goons are here to ruin eve. The only way that they are ruining eve is that they and their powerful allies are ruining bob's plan to conquer eve. EVE IS RUINED! Because posting on the forums is serious business.
Sionide Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.30 21:09:00 - [313] Edited by: Sionide on 30/07/2007 21:11:26 James315 makes some interesting points on the subject of BoB vs Goons. Honestly, the whole situation with BoB seems to be relevant if ones puts in a feudal system analogy. BoB is the King and the pets are his vassels. BoB is strong on his own, but with his vassels at his command he owns the land. The King gains power and more vassels by conquering other lands and of course by winning. Like at the time of the Roman or Persian expansion many towns just joined the winning side rather than be totally conquered (or in the Assyrians case, conquered and then killed and posted on spikes outside the city walls). So yes, when the "big, bad, invincible" BoB comes knocking on your region's door you gladly say "yes sir, I will be under you and pay tribute/taxes to you." However, the King's power continues only when: A) he continues to be victorious B) has strength and leadership and loyality of his vassels. C) uses religion to state he should be the boss (i.e. divine right, which does not apply here) Now as in Part II, if many of the Bob's pets joined to be on the "winning" side and if Bob starts to lose badly, I can see pets revolting and refusing to stop paying taxes to Bob or to state that they are not Bob pets anymore. Again, we can relate to true history in many examples but perhaps relate best to the towns in the Palestine region during the Egyptian and Hittite expansions where towns would declare and revolt depending on who the greater power was at that moment. Thus, Bob would lose if A becomes false, since then B would eventually become false. It's an implosion really...and something that happens often to vastly expanding empires (like the Roman empire...during their last moments they were desparately trying to just keep their boarders where they were). As for the current situation, I am not an Eve-vetern, but looking at the situation politically Bob really can't afford to lose this war. If they pull back, their "invinciblity" shell will be broken, and perhaps other alliances will start taking pot shots at them, as well as having pets revolt or join RSF, etc. I am not going to go as far as James315 to say that Bob's strength is an illusion, since currently it is very real; but all great empires fall...it's just a matter of time. Nonetheless, it's fun to be a witness to it all.
Orebuster	Posted - 2007.07.30 21:59:00 - [314] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Here's what I replied to Stelbeck (in English this time): Didn't care when you wrote it in Frogtalk, care less now. The fact is that BoB want to take over all of 0.0 space, whether or not they can is irrelevant.
Sasha Evergreen Gallente Sand Castle Generals	Posted - 2007.07.30 22:00:00 - [315] Originally by: Sionide C) uses religion to state he should be the boss (i.e. divine right, which does not apply here) What do you think CAOD is? Religion is a sophisticated propaganda tool.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.30 22:03:00 - [316] Band of Brothers' ultimate goal is to rule all of EVE. Redswarm Federation's ultimate goal is to destroy Band of Brothers. That just about sums it up.
Rialtor Amarr TANDBERG Initiative	Posted - 2007.07.30 22:06:00 - [317] I don't claim to know much about 0.0 warfare, but it seems to me that your analysis is somewhat flawed. I do enough reading in COAD to know that both parties not only are very persistent, but that they enjoy this war. All those BoB v Goon troll wars speak to that. They don't sound like people that are demoralized, both sides are infact fired up. Bob likes to kill Goons, Goons feel a great sense of accomplishment actually regaining lost space. So you can see how both sides can easily keep their optimism and morale, because they're each doing something that brings them entertainment. And how can you claim BoB is losing when you haven't stated what losing means? Do you mean losing as some absolute meter? Well, in that instance I don't think BoB is losing as their just fighting over ex-goon space. Now I would agree that there is a bit of a momentum shift, but will this shift be enough to move this absolute meter to a state where BoB is in fact losing? And is this momentum switch because of Goon superiority, or just because Bob is overstretched? All these are concerns which haven't really been addressed, and are fundamental to any arguement that contains the bold statement that BoB is losing the war. And if these posts are missing these fundamental underly arguements, I don't see how it can be viewed as anything more than just propaganda, made to demoralize people that are just having fun playing a game. And this is coming from someone that doesn't like Bob fundamentally cause they seem sort of elitist. And I surely don't want them to achieve their goal of taking 0.0 space. I think you're counting chickens before their hatched...there's a great number of outcomes that can occur. Personally I don't think it would be a great blow for BoB to concede that MC is needed in the front lines in the East. RSF is easily one of the greatest fighting forces Eve has ever seen in 0.0. Why would BoB not use all the resources and employ MC. Even if they could do it themselves at a snail's pace, it would be more efficient to mobilize MC to the East. It's no worse than Goons getting bailed out by their allies, namely RA.
HoKu Ziare Middle Finger Technology Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:30:00 - [318] Originally by: Haulinass Gettinpaid And he only has 1 loss in this campaign as well! I'm pitching a tent just imagining his K/D ratio I LoL'ed So hard. The things that make me stay saine at my job.
Dushka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:52:00 - [319] Originally by: Rialtor I don't claim to know much about 0.0 warfare, but it seems to me that your analysis is somewhat flawed. I do enough reading in COAD to know that both parties not only are very persistent, but that they enjoy this war. All those BoB v Goon troll wars speak to that. They don't sound like people that are demoralized, both sides are infact fired up. Bob likes to kill Goons, Goons feel a great sense of accomplishment actually regaining lost space. So you can see how both sides can easily keep their optimism and morale, because they're each doing something that brings them entertainment. And how can you claim BoB is losing when you haven't stated what losing means? Do you mean losing as some absolute meter? Well, in that instance I don't think BoB is losing as their just fighting over ex-goon space. Now I would agree that there is a bit of a momentum shift, but will this shift be enough to move this absolute meter to a state where BoB is in fact losing? And is this momentum switch because of Goon superiority, or just because Bob is overstretched? All these are concerns which haven't really been addressed, and are fundamental to any arguement that contains the bold statement that BoB is losing the war. And if these posts are missing these fundamental underly arguements, I don't see how it can be viewed as anything more than just propaganda, made to demoralize people that are just having fun playing a game. And this is coming from someone that doesn't like Bob fundamentally cause they seem sort of elitist. And I surely don't want them to achieve their goal of taking 0.0 space. I think you're counting chickens before their hatched...there's a great number of outcomes that can occur. Personally I don't think it would be a great blow for BoB to concede that MC is needed in the front lines in the East. RSF is easily one of the greatest fighting forces Eve has ever seen in 0.0. Why would BoB not use all the resources and employ MC. Even if they could do it themselves at a snail's pace, it would be more efficient to mobilize MC to the East. It's no worse than Goons getting bailed out by their allies, namely RA. This is an excellent example of a good critical analysis. "Ur biased nub post wit ur main" is not.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.07.31 00:56:00 - [320] Originally by: Rialtor I don't claim to know much about 0.0 warfare, but it seems to me that your analysis is somewhat flawed. I do enough reading in COAD to know that both parties not only are very persistent, but that they enjoy this war. All those BoB v Goon troll wars speak to that. They don't sound like people that are demoralized, both sides are infact fired up. Bob likes to kill Goons, Goons feel a great sense of accomplishment actually regaining lost space. So you can see how both sides can easily keep their optimism and morale, because they're each doing something that brings them entertainment. And how can you claim BoB is losing when you haven't stated what losing means? Do you mean losing as some absolute meter? Well, in that instance I don't think BoB is losing as their just fighting over ex-goon space. Now I would agree that there is a bit of a momentum shift, but will this shift be enough to move this absolute meter to a state where BoB is in fact losing? And is this momentum switch because of Goon superiority, or just because Bob is overstretched? All these are concerns which haven't really been addressed, and are fundamental to any arguement that contains the bold statement that BoB is losing the war. And if these posts are missing these fundamental underly arguements, I don't see how it can be viewed as anything more than just propaganda, made to demoralize people that are just having fun playing a game. And this is coming from someone that doesn't like Bob fundamentally cause they seem sort of elitist. And I surely don't want them to achieve their goal of taking 0.0 space. I think you're counting chickens before their hatched...there's a great number of outcomes that can occur. Personally I don't think it would be a great blow for BoB to concede that MC is needed in the front lines in the East. RSF is easily one of the greatest fighting forces Eve has ever seen in 0.0. Why would BoB not use all the resources and employ MC. Even if they could do it themselves at a snail's pace, it would be more efficient to mobilize MC to the East. It's no worse than Goons getting bailed out by their allies, namely RA. Great post. RISE Recruitment Thread

ArcticFox Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:15:00 - [321] Edited by: ArcticFox on 31/07/2007 01:15:32 For the entirety of this post I was waiting for the bulk of the post to be tied in at least some tenuous way to the title, but I just don't see it. Frankly, I think you should have gone with this instead: "Yuh-huh, BoB really is losing." -------------------------- There is no +6 sword of WTFPWN in Eve.
The Kola Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:28:00 - [322] Originally by: Sasha Evergreen Originally by: Chairmen Mao you're right this is a [bob] cap ship char. I have lots of accounts...couple goon ones too o/ thx for the buisness Making sure you can stay in the winning team eh? Not suprising from members of bob, they're full of members who joined the winning side after their own defeat. it's been a long time in the making mate...nothin new..something about long term planning that I like...how about goons and pals ? . .. .. do you think there is no long term plan lol you guys are funny D2: There is a war? Last I saw outer space is always in a state of war.
ForumPosterAlt HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:32:00 - [323] Originally by: Sionide I am not going to go as far as James315 to say that Bob's strength is an illusion, since currently it is very real; but all great empires fall...it's just a matter of time. Nonetheless, it's fun to be a witness to it all. I like you, you aren't full of **. BoB can blow up ships just like everybody else can. BoB's secret weapon was intimidation, they talk big, belittle their opponent, and use propoganda to cause the weaker minds of their opponents to give up, crippling the enemy. Thats what James pointed out with ASCN. People like James are anything but intimidated by BoB. James HUNTS BoB. Thats why James kicks BoB's ass, hard. The southern coalition is not intimidated either, and that is why they can win, they didn't sell off their hope before they ever really lost. Thats why its important to keep up the COAD war as much as it is the in-game war. Let BoB know that their pilots playing online spaceship games aren't divinely blessed with superhuman gamer abilities, that their enemies are just as good if not better, that their enemies have the industrial backbone to keep bringing it, and bringing it, and bringing it, and that they are going to fight them, fully aware that they are fighting BoB, not back down, not run away, not be intimidated, that their "End-Game" is fighting BoB, not peacefully mining roids, but defeating BoB. So in a way its the beginning of a new eve where PvPers are through with kneeling before SirMolle. And really I am confused why all of BoB's pets are still defending BoB, BoB doesn't defend you, they just mooch off of you. How many billions of isk have the pets paid BoB? And they just waste it on overpriced modules that they lose in common fleet battles. BoB pets could defend themselves much better, and much cheaper, than if they were paying BoB. Open your damn eyes. You're paying BoB so that BoB doesn't destroy you. But they can't even defend "their space" that you're renting. And as for MC, I know that they are just part of BoB, fking roleplayers, but god only knows why they defend BoB for free when they'd have many more contract opportunities if they'd just accept purchase from any alliance that could afford them, rather than just who BoB says they can. Oh but BoB would take your stations. Fking cowards. Because posting on the forums is serious business.**
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:33:00 - [324] OH MY GOD THERE ARE BOB SPIES IN MY ALLIANCE SOMEONE GET A TORCH AND A HEAVY ROCK ITS WITCH SEASON
Cringeley GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:35:00 - [325] Originally by: Kola XXX .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy This assertion is pure invention.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:43:00 - [326] Originally by: Orebuster Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Here's what I replied to Stelbeck (in English this time): Didn't care when you wrote it in Frogtalk, care less now. I'm sure TCF are enjoying your slurring of their mother tongue. Idiot.
The Kola Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:43:00 - [327] Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Kola XXX .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy This assertion is pure invention. ...yeah ok lol... I think you know better than that.look at you're transactions tab more often. I am doing good buisness. D2: There is a war? Last I saw outer space is always in a state of war.
Deschenus Maximus Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2007.07.31 01:58:00 - [328] Mr ForumPosterAlt, I'm going to answer some of your questions. You may not believe, and probably will not believe, what I will tell you, but you have my word that I am being truthful. Originally by: ForumPosterAlt And really I am confused why all of BoB's pets are still defending BoB, BoB doesn't defend you, That is untrue. BoB is always willing to give a hand when they can. No only that, but they will assist on important ops, such as outpost deployments. Originally by: ForumPosterAlt they just mooch off of you. How many billions of isk have the pets paid BoB? Not all members of the GBC pay rent. And even then, 6B a month (the standard rate, I believe, though I am uncertain of this) is a joke, on an alliance level. Originally by: ForumPosterAlt And they just waste it on overpriced modules that they lose in common fleet battles. More likely, the rent is used to fuel the hundreds of POSes BoB uses. Originally by: ForumPosterAlt BoB pets could defend themselves much better, and much cheaper, than if they were paying BoB. That is also untrue. 6B a month is nothing to get the backing of one of the best and most powerful alliances in game. Originally by: ForumPosterAlt Open your damn eyes. You're paying BoB so that BoB doesn't destroy you. But they can't even defend "their space" that you're renting. As explained above, that is not what rent buys you. Any member of the GBC could simply pack up and head to the Drone regions to be "free", or, barring that, could've pulled an Intrepid Crossing, and switched sides at the beginning of the war.
Bu Jinkan Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 02:00:00 - [329] Originally by: Cringeley Originally by: Kola XXX .here is the update...alot of goons going back to empire to buy more t2 ships from us to fight us with. enjoy This assertion is pure invention. For one thing, Goons are not allowed to fly t2.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.07.31 02:04:00 - [330] Originally by: Deschenus Maximus Mr ForumPosterAlt, I'm going to answer some of your questions. You may not believe, and probably will not believe, what I will tell you, but you have my word that I am being truthful. Originally by: ForumPosterAlt And really I am confused why all of BoB's pets are still defending BoB, BoB doesn't defend you, That is untrue. BoB is always willing to give a hand when they can. No only that, but they will assist on important ops, such as outpost deployments. XELAS, GONAD



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