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An Nikuu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 21:46:00 -
[1]
This just isnt funny, atm it is really easy to abuse the system to get ~6 meaningfull missions per hour (either implants or important missions) and well, its nice that ive earned far over 100 mil isk with selling implants post patch (the one yesterday yes, see the problem?)...
Basicly either bring back the mission timer, or make other missions more worth while so its an actual shame to click em away, but this is just totally insane. Also what might be considered is awarding implants based on missions completed instead of using a random number generator and if you get the lucky number you get the implant mission... |
Jim Roynar
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Posted - 2004.01.29 21:56:00 -
[2]
Your Wish has been answered. Agents have been totally NERFED to hell and back.
God Bless you PapaSmurf. May your purple Hair turn YEllOW
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:04:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Wraeththu on 29/01/2004 22:13:57
 Quote:
Your Wish has been answered. Agents have been totally NERFED to hell and back.
God Bless you PapaSmurf. May your purple Hair turn YEllOW
No actually, he's talking about the current patch. And what he's talking about a bunch of us have noticed for a while, and I've seen a few people take advantage of it. That's why I grimaced when I read the patch notes "implant mission frequency has been increased".
The sad thing is, you're faction and corp standings actually stays the same and/or increases this way, with the exception of the agent's personal feelings for you.
Edit:
What would help would be some sorta heuristic logic, that either made the number of "special" missions (implants, IMs or whatever I don't know about that you'd use this method to get) would being to be limited based on the number you've received over a time period. So, in An's case, if he did this, he'd stop seeing IM's and Implants until some of those previous missions rolled off his 'timer queue'.
Example: as part of the initial mission selection code, it would double check the number of Implants/IMs/Specials receved in, say, the past 24 hours, or the past 12 hours or something, and and if so, begin reducing the likely hood of that mission showing up. Some sorta curve, like the current standing system, so the likely hood of 3 is considerably less than 2, etc.
Of course, for this to not totally kill agent missions, you'd have to make normal missions of some use again, which they really aren't. Normal missions don't give enough of a standing increase as to be useful or noticable, and now that the pay's cut, they're just filler. I like to do some for enjoyment, but from a pure power-gaming stand-point, they're a complete waste of player and programmer time.
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Falbala
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:10:00 -
[4]
Those implants are common now, people make a lot of money with it for a day or two but the prices will fall soon. New implants +4 are out FYI.
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:18:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Those implants are common now, people make a lot of money with it for a day or two but the prices will fall soon. New implants +4 are out FYI.
I think his point is that you're cheapening the accomplishments of those people who don't abuse the system. At least, that's what I hope he's saying. Getting an implant should be a special occurance, and result in either a nice gain, be it in attribute or monitary increase.
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:57:00 -
[6]
The devs apparantly think that getting a BASIC implant should no longer be that special of an occurance.
Times change. Not much different then the miner 2 debacle. The price will drop thru the floor on implants soon enough. +4's will still command a substantial price tho.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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An Nikuu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:01:00 -
[7]
We'll see, but if you do missions the "normal" way you'd get 1 implant per 20 to 30 missions, with the no mission timer and the fact that you can take small standing hits to just farm agents for 4 implants per hour is just silly.
(note though this does mean your agent will become unusable after a while, since important missions cant increase your standing with the agent enough, but that really isnt a problem since there are more then enough lvl3 agents around.)
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Mired
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:10:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I think his point is that you're cheapening the accomplishments of those people who don't abuse the system.
Ok, I have to ask, since I am not one to abuse systems but I am curious. How does one abuse the agent missions? I can't see how this is done personally. Is this just running multiplt ageant at the same time?
Mired
Bardon Advanced Technologies |
Tirren
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:20:00 -
[9]
Ok so what, I decline a mission I get banned now? I decline missions when the isk/bonus compared to jumps required just aren't worth it and it appears they are worth crap more often than not lately. However even with the occasional decline (i don't mind declining on stupid missions) I have yet to get an implant and I'm in the 8.0+ w/o connections. I got ONE implant only in hundreds of missions since Castor, and it was for my first Duvolle level 3 agent. It was also my first mission for him, strange and I was barely rated in the 4.0 corp with connection and now that I'm higher i'm not rewarded a single implant.
BTW it sorta sux. I'm tired of doign missions and getting barely anything. I havn't gotten T2 in probably a week just batteries, isk, and regular commodites on top of buttloads of shuttles noone is buying.
"I can only take so much before I'll blow up my own ship. Hey isn't that what insurance is for?"
EVE Agent Info Guide v1.21 |
Xailia
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:20:00 -
[10]
Agent Abuse:
Talk to your agent.
Request a Mission.
Check the bonus.
If it is an implant, do the mission, if not, decline.
Rince and Repeat.
Indeed, the higher isk and item rewards and bonuses would make them worth doing for standing increases and isk/stuff. But like An said, now there is little reason to do them unless you need standing.
And the only reason to want standing at the moment is for R&D agents or implant/kill missions. 
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
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An Nikuu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:21:00 -
[11]
Edited by: An Nikuu on 29/01/2004 23:22:10
sorry apppearantly its labaled as true exploit and will not be posting more info about it, please check the news for more info 
Ill post how it was done after a fix.
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Bob Sikes
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:23:00 -
[12]
Is this the exploit the news talks about? I can't believe this is labelled an exploit to be honest. If you go just for implants, sure I could see it. However, I like kill missions, and I regularly decline any courier missions given to me. Think the GMs still consider that an exploit? If so, maybe they should fix the agent system so agents in the Caldari Navy Security Division, for example, don't treat us like tractor trailers.
We need things to make us go. You are smart. Will you give us things to make us go? |
Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:24:00 -
[13]
I was attempting to not post this, as I consider it on par with any other exploit like Grid Mining, and hence not allowed on the board per EULA, but whatever.
It's slighty more complicated, but An has posted a few of the points you missed.
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Wraeththu on 29/01/2004 23:26:36
If they would just read their bug reports/feedback they would have found this out two weeks ago.
Edit: Oh, and this isn't the only agent exploit. so who knows which one they're talking about really.
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Soilent
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:27:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Soilent on 29/01/2004 23:29:32
Edit: nevermind. looks like someone beat me to the punch.
I personally have never turned down a mission. But with these new battleship kill missions, that's going to change. If the game were more stable and didn't have a nasty habit of crashing on me, I might be game, but it's not worth it for me. But that's another story altogether.
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Newbie for life! |
Ayako
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:32:00 -
[16]
No really, the exploit is not turning down agent missions, it's something worse than that (getting multiple implants from the same mission I think)
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:35:00 -
[17]
Quote:
No really, the exploit is not turning down agent missions, it's something worse than that (getting multiple implants from the same mission I think)
That would exploit #2. I think you can find that one on the main board. Leme go find the link
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:38:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Your Wish has been answered. Agents have been totally NERFED to hell and back.
God Bless you PapaSmurf. May your purple Hair turn YEllOW
A FILTHY ARMARRIAN HAS STOLEN MY NAME.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Bob Sikes
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:44:00 -
[19]
Quote:
No really, the exploit is not turning down agent missions, it's something worse than that (getting multiple implants from the same mission I think)
That is a relief. I hope Papa or a GM can come on and define for us EXACTLY what is and what isn't the exploits they're talking about (NOT how to do them of course!). Then I'd feel more confident in how to do the missions without getting banned.
We need things to make us go. You are smart. Will you give us things to make us go? |
An Nikuu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:46:00 -
[20]
Ah but its just dumb to give special loot to respawning rats if you ask me... Its known for a long time that rats respawn during missions (as was the declining stuff though, not really well thought out from ccp, if they decide to ban people from this they oughta give more details about what it is... since this just kinda sucks... A power gamer wants to be on the edge of the rules since there is where most isk is, and if that edge isnt clearly stated then well, that just sucks  ).
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:55:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Its known for a long time that..
Again, you're posting exploit information ;)
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Shevar
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:58:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Shevar on 30/01/2004 00:05:44
Edited by: Shevar on 30/01/2004 00:00:25
So stating that rats respawn during missions is a exploit and can get deleted? Its been posted quite a few times already on these boards over the past few months?
Its rather annoying that ccp says there is an exploit while there are enough borderline possibilities of what that exploit could be or could not be.
And only alot of info that has been known for a long time that can be used to gain more isk, stuff in missions is posted here. Its like saying its not legal to post in ships and modules what a good layout is for a ship so you can hunt rats better.
So in the end what are we allowed to post around here
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:11:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Wraeththu on 30/01/2004 00:14:10
Quote:
Its rather annoying that ccp says there is an exploit while there are enough borderline possibilities of what that exploit could be or could not be... And as long as I dont know what they consider to be the exploit I dont see whats wrong with posting it.
So in the end what are we allowed to post around here
We're all over 11 years old here (per the EULA). Most of us are over 16. At that point, I think you maintain the ability to tell the difference between the "Intent" of something and the "Actual Function" of something. When the Intent and the actuallity don't meet, then that's a bug. If you use that bug on purpose, then it's an exploit.
There's plenty of things we exploit on a daily basis that either can't control, or don't want too. Example: Docking at a station in a system in the old patch so that you'd "home" on that station as your JIP. It's obvious that that's not an intent, but people did it for the actual results. Since these exploits don't play a huge factor in messing up the flow of the game, it's given a low priority. It's kinda like the people who smoke pot in their house and don't bother anyone (assuming this is illegal in your country, like the USA).
Conversly, if you do something that puts you ahead of other people, it creates an issue. This is more on par with getting hopped up on some illcit drug and driving like a maniac. That bothers other people.
The harvesting of Implants, and Mission NPCs is obviously a break from Intent. You can argue about that fact all you want, but I have faith that the majority of the people here are morally endowed enough to realize the difference.
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Shevar
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:27:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Shevar on 30/01/2004 00:33:23
Well im allowed to smoke pot in holland (dont really see the connection but hej you brought it up), second of its a competative game the entire intention of it is to get as far ahead of the "pack" as possible.
And according to that logic this thread is illegal as well? It covers the exact same feature we are discussing:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=7668&page=1#1
(if I would put more time in it I could uncover the thread as well in which its stated that the timer is taken out because of the new penalties for declining came with castor. Namely the standing losses)
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:39:00 -
[25]
So, no. Agent missions don't need to be nerfed. They need to be equalized a bit. you shouldn't get a majority of total crap missions and a few implant or important missions as that encourages farming. Ideally every mission would have a good aspect to it and the ones that pay very well should also be more challenging.
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:40:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Well im allowed to smoke pot in holland (dont really see the connection but hej you brought it up)
Yeah, that's why I pointed out it was illegal in the states. I've been to amsterdam a few times. You can substitute it for any other activity that's insular and doesn't bother anyone else, but is technically illegal. How about being a secret gun collector in Holland.
Quote:
second of its a competative game the entire intention of it is to get as far ahead of the "pack" as possible.
Possible. Have you ever played a FPS like quake or something? Was it fun when someone unleashed a bot on the server?
The answer is, "No". Why? because you didn't stand a chance. Abusing the system isn't fun for the rest of people.
You may choose to view your goal is getting ahead of the pack, but at the point where you do so through morally ambigious methods, you're basically lying and cheating in a virtual world and sacrificing your real life integrity to get virtual perks over others. It's like caching in 500 gilders for 10,000 in monopoly money.
Quote:
And according to that logic this thread is illegal as well?
Technically, yes. But, like I said, it's the 'lesser of evils' when people aren't using it to get ahead. You'll notice that I defined a difference between "bug" and "exploit". Finding a bug is great. Notifying the system about that bug is a good thing. Using that bug to further your gains is an exploit. A good portion of the people that play this game ahve little to no integrity. They WILL use it to further themselves. That's why they have a bug report feature in the game.
Quote:
(if i would put more time in it I could uncover the thread as well in which its stated that the timer is taken out because of the new penalties for declining came with castor. Namely the standing losses)
No, I know which one you're talking about. The problem is that Papa either missed or doesn't understand how it works, or it's straight bugged. Because there actually ISN'T a penalty for declining. I don't want to go into it though, as that falls into the exploit.
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TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Zugg
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:45:00 -
[27]
Look me up in game and look at my transactions or Theology Council.
I turned down any non-shooting mission. If I wanted a fed ex mission I would have worked for Carthum some more.
However it could be abused in the ways previously suggested.
If you also look at the mission names not a single one was an important mission or one of the implant missions. To this day I have still only received 1 implant from missions. I am the colossal bad luck factor.
The Dark Seraphs...like Hells Angels, but less hairy |
Shevar
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Posted - 2004.01.30 00:50:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Shevar on 30/01/2004 00:57:59
Quote:
No, I know which one you're talking about. The problem is that Papa either missed or doesn't understand how it works, or it's straight bugged. Because there actually ISN'T a penalty for declining. I don't want to go into it though, as that falls into the exploit.
Yeah thats why I got 4 agents which refuse to talk to me within 30 hours  . (important missions dont affect agent standings remember?)
Quote:
Possible. Have you ever played a FPS like quake or something? Was it fun when someone unleashed a bot on the server?
Better comparision would be, is a good quake player allowed to learn a map so he knows where the good guns are and whats the best route through the map is to get all the goodies? That's a big advantage against someone who didnt learn the game dynamics, but to say it's unfair to know more about the game you're playing no...
In my opinion that is kinda what playing games is about.
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Ukiah
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Posted - 2004.01.30 02:21:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Look me up in game and look at my transactions or Theology Council.
I turned down any non-shooting mission. If I wanted a fed ex mission I would have worked for Carthum some more.
However it could be abused in the ways previously suggested.
If you also look at the mission names not a single one was an important mission or one of the implant missions. To this day I have still only received 1 implant from missions. I am the colossal bad luck factor.
I've gotten two, chief. msg me and one of em's yours if you need it. I thought you had a complete set.
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K'thang
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Posted - 2004.01.30 05:54:00 -
[30]
I'm not sure what's the exploit on the login screen is but I am kinda scared ****less of declining missions from my agent after reading this thread I've had to tho', especially one with taking an Atron from place A to place B where place B being in a killing zone and one other missions. Can anyone please tell me what to do and not to do? I don't wanna be banned....
K. |
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