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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:13:00 -
[1]
2 35k Ascribers almost killed my Omen, fully equipped with a capacitor recharging at 10/second, a continuous medium shield booster, and 4 medium laser cannons. Plus a smartbomb.
THIS IS WRONG IN ALMOST EVERY WAY. 2 35Ks should not be able to devastate an Omen. These guys are firing 50k-range missiles, each doing 150-200 damage, every 5 seconds or so, with NO RELOAD TIME. Are we trying to eliminate every ship with range below 30k in the game?!?!
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Gilbert
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:16:00 -
[2]
Well, you should just learn the tactics involved..
I've run 5x30k spawns in a Moa..
Allthough it was quite some time back...
Just stay out of their weapons range....
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:18:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
Well, you should just learn the tactics involved..
I've run 5x30k spawns in a Moa..
Allthough it was quite some time back...
Just stay out of their weapons range....
Here's the problem--its impossible. These guys have 50k weapon range. Explain, how, in an Omen with lasers, how I can stay out of their range and still hit? 
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:29:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Well, you should just learn the tactics involved..
I've run 5x30k spawns in a Moa..
Allthough it was quite some time back...
Just stay out of their weapons range....
You can't really stay out of their range these days as the rats often MWD right to you if you try. And of course missiles have a long range.
Bets option for those who like to standoff and fling missiles is close with them fast and kill them. If you can't close fast enough or at all then you need to run. However, NPCs are generally happy to close and fight so get in there and knock 'em around.
Give you lots of practice with that smartbomb too ;).
I also generally recommend hardeners if you can as well. They help a lot if you picked the right hardener to match what is coming at you.
Finally...you can actually shoot down missiles with your guns. DO NOT have any locked targets that are active (no arrows swirling around any targets). When a missile in on the way activate a turret and you'll get a targetting reticle. Put the reticle over an incoming missile and click on it and your guns will try to shoot it down. Seems to work best above 30km or so (roughly depending on missile, your lock time and so on). This way you need not rely solely on your smartbomb.
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:29:00 -
[5]
maybe you should try using a ship suited to the task!
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:32:00 -
[6]
It might be that ascribers are overpowered... I normally can take on even the toughest Sansha, Angel and Blood cruisers in my Rupture so I actually like empire space being rough.
Not to sound like a jackass, but do you use hardeners? They work pretty well in situations were you can't outrange your opponent.
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Aneu Angellus
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:39:00 -
[7]
Actually, all the NPC rats in this game are over-powered. CCP aims to lower the amount of BS's in the game, hence severly lowering the availability of Ark/Mega/Bist.
Concidering a 0.0 spawn can completely decemate a BS in under 10s i find it quite funny that CCP have introduced harder NPC's to empire space.
*Question to CCP*
Why not have 10 NPC Battleships in every asteroid belt in the game? It seems like that's what the game is headed towards, so why not just do it first as last?
________________
Aneu Angellus
Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
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babyblue
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:42:00 -
[8]
Hell, you are not kidding! I've lost my second Thorax in 24 hours 
I had 1x65k and 7x15k warp in and begin spamming me with missiles. I hit my shields until my cap ran out (which was quite a while) and was able to destroy the 65k with my rails before trying to warp away, patch up and come back to finish the others off. Well, would you believe it, I got stuck on a massive veldspar roid attempting to warp and about 200 missiles later, I was back in my pod again!
Now I'm moving to higher sec space :)
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:47:00 -
[9]
blah blah blah stay in 0.5 and above if u want to be safe, stupid nubs
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Mon Palae
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Posted - 2004.01.29 22:53:00 -
[10]
Quote:
blah blah blah stay in 0.5 and above if u want to be safe, stupid nubs
heheh
I seem to remember the same sorts of complaints immediately post-Castor as BS NPCs were eating battleships like crazy. Now people are happily hunting them again and whiel they may not be called easy like things were pre-Castor they generally don't seem to have too much worry about them.
I expect this is the same thing again. People get surprised by what's new and take awhile to adjust but adjust most will. Either better tactics, better setups, moving to higher sec space for the equivalent value of spawns you were once used to or some combination of those.
Then CCP will likely turn up the heat again. I'm waiting for the day NPC rats fly Polaris Legatus frigates ;).
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babyblue
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:01:00 -
[11]
Quote:
blah blah blah stay in 0.5 and above if u want to be safe, stupid nubs
You can always rely on bio-yoghurt to come in with the "stupid n00bs" line. Idiot.
I'm not a n00b, but I'm not particuarly skilled at anything at the moment (3,000,000 skillpoints and 64 skills) and I'm being pushed further into Empire for safety. Corps should be ok, but solo miners don't have much of a choice at the moment.
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Xtreem
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:01:00 -
[12]
Quote:
stupid nubs
uncalled for, it must be nice for u to just start playing eve and already have a bs and top guns, pity others arnt so lucky and have to start somewhere huh!
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Silverlancer on 29/01/2004 23:09:29
Quote:
blah blah blah stay in 0.5 and above if u want to be safe, stupid nubs
This isn't a "complaint about pirates" thread. Idiot. Moron. Its a complaint about the power of NPCs in Empire space. 0.5 space is a piece of cake for the weakest frigates, but 0.4 space can kill off cruisers. Not right. We aren't trying to mine, we are trying to HUNT. By definition, hunting is not safe, but it should be at least possible.
Read the thread before you reply with your canned "comments".
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Leitari
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:09:00 -
[14]
lol, you were warned in the news, deal with it...... like we say.... whaaa whaaa whaaa. And the carebear machine starts. 
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Helgu
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:17:00 -
[15]
The spawns are fine. You're just shocked at the change. You'll adapt and see that the game has improved with this change to the npc spawns in empire space.
Trust me. |
Masimo
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:18:00 -
[16]
2 Cruiser vs 1 Cruiser. The 2 Cruiser winning sounds fair. 2 Boxers vs 1, who would u think would win? Learn some skills and get some skills then u might have a chance
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LaneHacker
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:20:00 -
[17]
Can't you see what CCP is doing?! 
They are trying to toughen you carebears up so that when the time comes when a player smacks you around you won't go screaming and crying exploit...
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Mjolnir
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:25:00 -
[18]
Wasn't there a thread complaining how EASY the pirates were in empire space before the patch? I definately recall people were complaining that the "special" spawns in empire space were gone and that they couldnt hunt in 0.0 because the pirates where too hard. Now CCP has brought back cruiser pirates to empire space and the strength of 0.0 spawns has been greatly reduced. If you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen!
Which PA character are you? |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:28:00 -
[19]
I've taken out 85k NPCs that spammed thunderbolts in a Merlin. o_O
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
babyblue
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:29:00 -
[20]
Edited by: babyblue on 29/01/2004 23:30:15
I'm not complaining. i've never killed a 65k before today. I've also only ever lost 1 frigate before the patch (ages ago)! And I've lost 2 cruisers since. So I moved house Bit less profit, but much safer.
When I'm good enough, like you Space Turds and Killer Chunderers, I'll go back.
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babyblue
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Posted - 2004.01.29 23:32:00 -
[21]
Quote:
I've taken out 85k NPCs that spammed thunderbolts in a Merlin. o_O
Whohhhoooooo. Now take that fat Tuba away from your lips and realise that not everybody has your skillpoints, cash and combat expertise.
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GrendelPrime
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Posted - 2004.01.30 01:27:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Whohhhoooooo. Now take that fat Tuba away from your lips and realise that not everybody has your skillpoints, cash and combat expertise.
Dude... If you don't have the skillpoints to handle 0.4 and below, DON"T GO THERE!!
Man there is no pleaseing some people, First everyone says that the NPC's are to EASY in empire space. CCP then changes the NPC spawns, it was way harder (in some areas). So now that they have finally tweaked them to where they are where they should be, people are now maoning that they are to HARD!?!?! I mean WTF what do you want?. So I stand by my statement... if you can't hack it in 0.4 and below, STAY OUT! and let those of us who can have some fun.
/rant off
"Though you may die, do not give up your honor"
-- Miyamoto Musashi
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Silverlancer
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Posted - 2004.01.30 01:29:00 -
[23]
Here's the question. You're not uber 1337. You have 500k skill points. You're in a cheap cruiser, maybe an Omen. Low range.
Where do you hunt?
0.5 space has little buggers that you could solo in a shuttle by poking their wings.
0.4 and below has nasty rats that can take out all but the best cruisers with max range.
Tell me, where am I supposed to hunt enemies that give decent money and loot but don't pose a serious risk/suicidal risk to myself?
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GrendelPrime
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Posted - 2004.01.30 01:39:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Here's the question. You're not uber 1337. You have 500k skill points. You're in a cheap cruiser, maybe an Omen. Low range.
K... Not trying to say that you have to be l337 to fly in 0.4, but come on, given your statement, I would advise staying out of a crusier till you can really handle it. I mean whats wrong with your Frig, I still fly mine and I love it. Not trying to be mean or anything, but IMO the spawns now are great. And I'm sorry if you can't handle them, but they shouldn't be nerfed again just because some people think that they should be able to solo every NPC spawn out to 0.0
Here's a thought... if you can't do it on your own, Team up with a friend (or several friends). Some of the best fights I've had with NPC were my friends and I ganging up on Cruiser rats while flying Rifters. Give that a try, you'll see that it can be done. 
"Though you may die, do not give up your honor"
-- Miyamoto Musashi
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Nwalmaer
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Posted - 2004.01.30 01:42:00 -
[25]
Pretty sure the type of cruiser that spawns is random, and fairly low chance of cruiser spawn at that. So if you see a couple of 85k, just try another belt. It may have only frigates or more managable cruisers.
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.01.30 02:10:00 -
[26]
You mount long range artillery on the Omen and use a MWD to keep out of their range. Use some sensor boosters too.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.01.30 03:06:00 -
[27]
For the first poster,
DEAL WITH IT.
I used an Omen to farm spawns of 3 Blood Arch Engravers and 6 Blood Arch Reavers. That was before Castor but none of these have improved much after Castor either.
It's nothing to it if you know what you are doing. Basically, have a tanked setup with plenty of recharge, use shield amps and hardeners with your boosters, minimize your use of energy (use projs and rails or mix them with your lasers), and always retreat and maintain distance from your target. Keep your target on your tail.
I hunt Ascribers as part of my living. Pre Castor and Post Castor, there is no difference in the Ascribers, compared to the Terrorists which gained missiles after the patch (pre Castor they had none and were way too easy to kill). I see people who hunt Ascribers all the time in Moas and Thoraxes, some for recreation, some for a living.
Some NPCs were even NERFED after Castor. The Sansha Slavehunter, Ravishers, and Angel Marauders lost their missiles. The Ravager had its feared Thunderbolt missiles changed to Widowmakers---to make it the same with all the 35K out there (Serpentis Drug Lord, Gurista Ascriber, Angel Predator and Blood Arch Engraver).
One NPC that gained is the 45k Chief Protector (Serpentis in a Black Thorax) which flies to you so fast you swear its on MWDs, and starts eating you away with blasters up close. Kill this SOB on sight first the moment you see this. The Sansha Juggernaut may be firing Thunderbolts now (used to be firing Widowmakers---kind of swapped this with the Ravager) so this is another NPC you have to be very careful. Know this---it uses heavy beams. If you are in a Level 2 cruiser and you see a Juggernaut with 2 Ravishers in a belt, it may be smart to decline combat and run.
In general, the 30K to 45K NPC cruisers represent the old guard that were there before Castor, while the 55K to 85K are the new breed of killer NPC cruisers that in numbers, are actually a greater threat to BS out there than the BS NPCs.
In the 30K to 45K range (empire space cruiser NPCs) you must always watch out for the 35K as these are a greater threat to you than the 45K themselves:
Blood Arch Engraver (Arbitrator)
Sansha Ravager
Serpentis Drug Lord (Celestis)
Angel Predator
Gurista Ascriber (Blackbird)
The Ravager and Arch Engraver are identical except for their skins, because not only do they pickle you with thermal heavies, but got rapid firing focused beams with Radio Ms as well. They are the ones who can really kill you if you're not too careful or experienced in dealing with them.
The Drug Lord uses electron blasters and teh Predator uses 220 Vulcans. They don't have that much bite other than their missiles. The Ascriber's biggest bite is also its missiles. Other than that the dual 150 rails it uses only tickles. The 35K often comes in pairs with like 4 15 or 10k along with them, and the escorts may be just as lethal. Use run and snipe strategies if you're in a cruiser. (For BS, these are way too easy to kill yet).
Now if you can't handle these, how do you expect to do missions then?
The military missions often give out NPCs more vile than these, like the Rouge Pirate Escort (an Augoror with 3 heavy artillery and missiles), the Mercenary Commander, the Slave Lord and once in a while, even a 250K battleship like an Armaggedon. There are kill missions involving Mallers, Stabbers, and Moas. There are missions out there that will ask you to kill even Ravens.
If you think you can't handle this with a level 2 cruiser, get a level 3 one. An Omen isn't exactly the best fighting cruiser out there; use a Maller instead. One way or another, deal with it.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2004.01.30 04:52:00 -
[28]
Ive noticed that defenders are useless against the missle spams becaus there are just too many missles to be effective. I run to the asteroid belts and hide behind the roids while shooting at 30k range. The roid takes the missles hits and I can widdle the NPC crusiers down with twin 250 rails.
I did notice though, that the Gurista Plunderers which are built on the kestrel chasis once they close under 10 k I believe start to shoot you with a gun?! There arent any turret mounts on the kestrel? what is up with that?
------------------------------------------------
Serve the State
Join Channel CAINCOM |
Serenity Justice
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Posted - 2004.01.30 07:00:00 -
[29]
Many of the new NPC's are based on the elite versions of the ships and may have different fittings than you are used to.
i.e. from above, the black Thorax is not a Thorax at all but either an Ishtar or a Phobos (elite cruiser built on Thorax hull, not sure which one will be black), just like the Amarr Navy scouts have been in Maledictions since Castor (Dark blue elite frigate based on executioner hull) |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.01.30 07:09:00 -
[30]
Quote:
I did notice though, that the Gurista Plunderers which are built on the kestrel chasis once they close under 10 k I believe start to shoot you with a gun?! There arent any turret mounts on the kestrel? what is up with that?
Don't be surprised.
The Rogue Pirate Escort (found only in missions) uses an Augoror which not only has 3 artillerys, but one missile launch point. This is a tough ship to *****.
The Blood Spirit Sage---an Armaggedon with blood stains on its skin, can also fire missiles.
Even before Castor and Tech 2, Blood Arch Engravers, which is an Arbitrator, could fire two missiles, implying two launchers, when the stock Arbitrator only has one. The fast launch rate of these ships strongly suggest more than one launcher.
Pirate versions of the Crucifier (Blood Engraver---skin covered with blood stains) and the Maulus (Serpentis Drug Courier---a Black Maulus with extra appendages) could fire missiles before, even though the stock ships could not.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.01.30 07:16:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Many of the new NPC's are based on the elite versions of the ships and may have different fittings than you are used to.
i.e. from above, the black Thorax is not a Thorax at all but either an Ishtar or a Phobos (elite cruiser built on Thorax hull, not sure which one will be black), just like the Amarr Navy scouts have been in Maledictions since Castor (Dark blue elite frigate based on executioner hull)
This special Executioner hull already appeared long before Castor and was used by Bloods for months. It's in one of their tiny frigates you can find in high sec sectors.
There is a new Inquisitor hull that is used by Amarr Navy frigates, and this is not used by the Bloods however. It has short stubby wings and a redesigned back end. Its rather cool looking and appeared at least a month before Castor. If you go through Amarr high sec space, you can easily find these frigates loitering around gates.
You know, I do like to see the Gallente GPDF ship finally appear in the game. This is the ship shooting at the Caldari station in the EVE box.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2004.01.30 08:06:00 -
[32]
bla bla bla, have you looked at 0.0rats they rae easy now
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.01.30 08:08:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Quote:
stupid nubs
uncalled for, it must be nice for u to just start playing eve and already have a bs and top guns, pity others arnt so lucky and have to start somewhere huh!
Yep, they start in 0.8 till 0.5 to prevent the warp in from NPC pirate cruisers, the news on the website was VERY specific regarding the cruiser spawns and yet people WHINE about this!
Yesterday i took out my stabber to do some agent missions, i took way to low ammount of ammo, had 1 infiltrator combat drone with me and killed the mission without any problems.
Since i was in 0.4 space i figured to take out some NPC's and see what the changes were.
i visit 3 belts with all 15k and lower, hardly any challenge.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
DaniB
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Posted - 2004.02.03 21:20:00 -
[34]
Quote:
blah blah blah stay in 0.5 and above if u want to be safe, stupid nubs
Oh kid, watch your nose...
Try to tell such things real life. Keep some respect!
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Wraken
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Posted - 2004.02.03 22:46:00 -
[35]
I've killed 2x35k rats with a BlackBird...were those Ascribers. I stayed in about 40k distance, they fired missiles, heavies (I think...they never got close enough ). I have 2x heavy missile launchers with only measly heavy missiles and one standard launcher with defenders. I can kill those incoming missiles easy and fire my heavy missiles at them...and firing my lousy 250mm railgun in between all the time.
It takes few minutes but I can kill them eventually
Mind you, those rats came in a lvl3 agent mission so maybe there are easier in that?
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Khull
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Posted - 2004.02.04 14:38:00 -
[36]
Didnt expect this, i have only just recently started hunting and only have 450k skill points and was taking out groups of pirates giving 50k - 100k bounty between 4 or 5 them (not each! oh i wish...)
only using small projectiles and small missiles.
ive taken out a couple of 35k and 45k pirates aswell though must admit it was a long fight and im glad they were on their own.
This is in a 0.4 system with about 15 belts.
Maybe you just got really unlucky with the hits they did on you cuz my small shield has kept me pretty good apart from a couple of close ones.
I just keep moving and missile them all to death before i run in with the cannons to finish them off.
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Deadflip2
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Posted - 2004.02.04 14:56:00 -
[37]
CCP is indeed trying to get rid of bss, and introduce more commen use of ALTS (i got 3 righ tnow flying cruisers..) becouse its getting far 2 risky in a BS with IMPLANTS... , only time i take my bss out nowadays is to mine in 0.8
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
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