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Khanid Mk II sux!

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Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:18:00 - [61] Originally by: Grimpak 1 year ago the amarr whines were: "OMFG WE NEEDS FLAVOUR! WE DON'TS HAVE A FLAVOUR!" ccp gives them a flavour. now: "OMFG WE HAVE TO TRAIN MISSILES? BLASPHEMY!" Can't please them all.
Susa Ou	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:33:00 - [62] The New Khanid ships will be fun, but by no means are lasers fixed - the Khanid changes don't fix a fundamentally broken wepon system - its not the damage type, its the PG/Cap it takes to raw damage modifier that is screwy. . .beams especially should do a little more damage - or - their pg/cap cost should come down a little.
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:42:00 - [63] What I find frustrating is now the amarr will have the best heavy/heavy assault close range missile boat in the game and the Minmatar have the best active shield tank in the game - and Caldari have - nerfed jammers and crappy tanks. yay. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Hedeon Mishenka Kinetic Vector	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:46:00 - [64] Originally by: Kunming Wall of text. Shut it and let those of us with functioning brain cells enjoy what we've all been asking for for years. Oh, and the "T3" battleship better be Khanid... with 6+ missile slots. .: You laugh because I'm different :: I laugh because you're all the same :.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.01 09:42:00 - [65] Originally by: Susa Ou The New Khanid ships will be fun, but by no means are lasers fixed - the Khanid changes don't fix a fundamentally broken wepon system - its not the damage type, its the PG/Cap it takes to raw damage modifier that is screwy. . .beams especially should do a little more damage - or - their pg/cap cost should come down a little. But these changes aren't about fixing lasers, they're about giving Khanid ships flavor and usability.
Kather Evil Proctologists	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:17:00 - [66] Originally by: Kunming Lets say u start the game as minmatar, u fool around abit and decide u love the stabber, so u take the advice of the veterans and specialize (isnt that what u told us CCP?.. "specialize"!) skill up all the T2 skills for a vagabond.. end of story u live happily ever after. Similar story, u are amarr, like the maller, u train up for the T2 version and next thing u know ur requested to train missile skills next!! No other race needs to do this, no vexor, moa or stabber pilot needs to enter a wildly different skill tree to fly their T2 ship.. or, you start playing as caldari, and really like the ferox, so you specialise in rails, and get to its tech 2 version, which uses MISSILES!! oh noes, how do you cope!?!?!? i have less missile skills than most amarr pilots, but i love the mk2 changes. --------------------------------------------- Long live the Evil Proctologists!
SunTzuRaven Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:32:00 - [67] Stop whining and use other amarr ships, you know, the ones that do use lasers. They didn't just turn ALL amarr ships into missile users, they just turned a couple, most of which have a companion in the same class THAT STILL USES LASERS. So use them instead of *****ing that all amarr are useless. I'm happily looking forward to these changes ________________________________________ <("<) <('')> (>")>
Kunming The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:32:00 - [68] Originally by: Kather Originally by: Kunming Lets say u start the game as minmatar, u fool around abit and decide u love the stabber, so u take the advice of the veterans and specialize (isnt that what u told us CCP?.. "specialize"!) skill up all the T2 skills for a vagabond.. end of story u live happily ever after. Similar story, u are amarr, like the maller, u train up for the T2 version and next thing u know ur requested to train missile skills next!! No other race needs to do this, no vexor, moa or stabber pilot needs to enter a wildly different skill tree to fly their T2 ship.. or, you start playing as caldari, and really like the ferox, so you specialise in rails, and get to its tech 2 version, which uses MISSILES!! oh noes, how do you cope!?!?!? i have less missile skills than most amarr pilots, but i love the mk2 changes. Vulture? Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Shiken Kan	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:32:00 - [69] i personally like the khanid changes, but i have to admit that op does have a point to a certain degree and what really would be needed now is a boost to some of the viziam ships, as these are, at least partially, pretty crap. and tbh i would like the amarr to stay the laserblasting race with some ppl prefering missiles, but not make them armortanking caldari with some exotic lasersetup possibilities.
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.08.02 08:57:00 - [70] Edited by: Garia666 on 02/08/2007 09:00:50 As an amarr only pilot. I completely agree with kunming on all comments, After being in the game for so many years. CCP now forces me to use things which i do not want to use. Khanid has become absolete in just one blow. Just because some bobo of ccp had an brain fart. (with probably his main is caldari ) " Question? How can we get the people to use the utterly failled short range missles?" "Ah yes we force it on amarr. We take khanid as an excuse that way all teh caldari are happy." As kunming pointed out with Facts, all these changes make no sence and they dont. Not to talk about the NOS changes.. but thats a different topic. ->My Vids<-

max bygraves	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:15:00 - [71] Did the OP actually realize that minmatar and gallente use missiles too ? Im betting not.
heheheh Singularity. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:16:00 - [72] ^^ Hes just the typical whiner that doesnt check **** just cries.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:31:00 - [73] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 02/08/2007 09:31:42 Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 02/08/2007 09:11:45 As an amarr only pilot. I completely agree with kunming on all comments, After being in the game for so many years. CCP now forces me to use things which i do not want to use. Lasers on Khanid has become absolete in just one blow. Just because some bobo of ccp had an brain fart. (with probably his main is caldari ) " Question? How can we get the people to use the utterly failled short range missles?" "Ah yes we force it on amarr. We take khanid as an excuse that way all teh caldari are happy." As kunming pointed out with Facts, all these changes make no sence and they dont. Not to talk about the NOS changes.. but thats a different topic. If you had ANY clue at all about the backstory you would know how utterly wrong this drivel is. And lasers on Khanid ships have been obsolete forever. Only valid reason to use the ships at all was price, which in itself showed how much they sucked. And I don't know who started preaching this 'must specialize to be good' doctine, but it is utterly false. I have been training all four races pretty evenly throughout my entire EVE life and I would say I do pretty damn well. Being maybe 10% better with one race's ships is not nearly as much of an advantage as being able to fly all of them. I can always use the right tool for the job while specced fools are limited to always using their one tool even if it is NOT suited for the job. And it also gives you a much better point of view to judge game balance :) There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.08.02 10:33:00 - [74] Anyone who flies a rocket Crow can tell you that the Malediction is going to be a waste of time. The only thing that really makes it viable in the interceptor role is the 10% velocity bonus to missiles. Without that, the Malediction is a lame duck given that it sounds like standard missiles aren't going to be an easy alternative.
Lord Loom Loom Service Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:12:00 - [75] Originally by: Shiken Kan i personally like the khanid changes, but i have to admit that op does have a point to a certain degree and what really would be needed now is a boost to some of the viziam ships, as these are, at least partially, pretty crap. and tbh i would like the amarr to stay the laserblasting race with some ppl prefering missiles, but not make them armortanking caldari with some exotic lasersetup possibilities. the mainstay of the Amarrian fleet are still laserboats, including the dreadnaught, the battleships and half the T2 combat ships seriously, you people make me laugh... ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:29:00 - [76] Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader It takes like 4 days to get T2 rockets... not a big deal! If you want to fit them on your ship it takes about 5-6 days with very high willpower and perception. If you want to be good with rockets it will take you another month at least. Seriously, all those month old characters in Ravens in empire give absolutely no indication whatsoever wrt how long it actually takes to skill missiles. In other news most people with sense/little isk will be flying the Diction with standards (yes, ignoring the rocket bonus). I would imagine the same will go for all the other Khanid boats. I'm pretty sure it'll quickly become apparent that the advantages of fitting unbonused missile launchers will outweigh the bonuses the ship gives (Sacrilege may be the exception).
Borasao	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:37:00 - [77] Originally by: Susa Ou The New Khanid ships will be fun, but by no means are lasers fixed Good thing the Khanid Mk II changes have absolutely nothing to do with any other Amarr boost (like lasers) in planning, then (as stated by developer posts even).
Borasao	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:40:00 - [78] Originally by: Garia666 Edited by: Garia666 on 02/08/2007 09:11:45 As an amarr only pilot. I completely agree with kunming on all comments, After being in the game for so many years. CCP now forces me to use things which i do not want to use. Lasers on Khanid has become absolete in just one blow. Can I have all your Maledictions, Vengences, Sacrileges, and Damnations? Since they're garbage now, I'll even be generous and pay you 10M isk per hull to take them off your hands.
Aya Otosaki Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.08.02 15:06:00 - [79] Edited by: Aya Otosaki on 02/08/2007 15:06:51 I wont say that these new changes are bad because i have no clue about that. what kinda bugs me is that this change isnt rewarding the amarr players that stuck with amarr even though they sucked a bit, their are more rewarding for caldari players because they can easily cross train to amarr and by amarr i mean that khanid stuff. ----- Ignorance is my strength.
AnKahn Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.02 15:31:00 - [80] As a Caldari semi noob I hope these new Khanid are golden and shiney like Ammar ships all are. Im training drones now because I was going to cross train Gallente but the nos changes sort of have me hesitating. So next Im going to work on hull upgrades so I have armor tanking ability (I won't say for what ship, but I have to try it). Then gunnery so I can use a Rokh. Then the question was what race to train next. It WAS Gallente hands down. Now Minmatar and suprise maybe Amarr??? Please carefully read the above. Racial balancing is happening perhaps?? Everyone whined about Caldari having a PvE advantage mainly because of missiles. Now they would be more evenly distributed. Armor tanked missile boat. Kind of a dream for sure. (Armor plated Raven more of a nightmare). Gallete NOS boats >>>>> everything else. Not so much anymore. So if you cant see that the final move in this balancing by CCP would be to give lasers some love well you have your head somewhere it should not be. The problem is if not careful lasers would again be ultra gank kings and it would be easy with the recent changes for EvE to again be Amarr online. Patience young Amarr grasshoppers (old Kung-Fu reference to the newly hatched) your lasers my soon shine more brightly. Now if Amarr is not fixed NEXT, then whine. Peace (or War, which ever you prefer).

Bluestealth Minmatar BlueLabs	Posted - 2007.08.02 15:50:00 - [81] Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Its funny that you complain about having to train a different weapon system. I haven't often heard Minmatarr pilots complain that they had to train turrest, missiles, armor and shields. We only have to train turrets, missiles and armor. Caldari has good sniping boats, so they to have to train 3 things. Gallents also has to train 3 things, Drones, armor and turrets. Come to think of it, lets keep Amarr special with only 1 weapons type and 1 tanking type Minmatar have to train drones as well... have you "ever" seen a Typhoon? So... Missiles, Shields, Turrets, Armor, and Drones.
Borasao	Posted - 2007.08.02 15:53:00 - [82] Originally by: Aya Otosaki Edited by: Aya Otosaki on 02/08/2007 15:06:51 I wont say that these new changes are bad because i have no clue about that. what kinda bugs me is that this change isnt rewarding the amarr players that stuck with amarr even though they sucked a bit, their are more rewarding for caldari players because they can easily cross train to amarr and by amarr i mean that khanid stuff. The Khanid change has nothing to do with an upcoming Amarr boost (to lasers or something else, they weren't specific) which will 'fix' some of those issues. Devs have already stated this. The Khanid fix is to just fix a bunch of ubercrap ships that people really only used because they were cheap.
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.08.03 06:45:00 - [83] Originally by: AnKahn Everyone whined about Caldari having a PvE advantage mainly because of missiles. Now they would be more evenly distributed. Armor tanked missile boat. Kind of a dream for sure. (Armor plated Raven more of a nightmare). Caldari ships are superior (supposedly) in PvE due to a constant, mix-and-match damage over a long range. As in, they don't miss, have a long range and can pick the correct damage type to match NPCs weakness. Khanid won't have that because only one of their ships (Heretic-class interdictor) gets a bonus to missile velocity and in stead of missile damage bonus they all get a bonus to rocket/heavy assault missile damage. In other words, no long range bombardment for Khanid!
Kcel Chim Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five	Posted - 2007.08.03 17:11:00 - [84] Originally by: Kunming right, u still dont get it it seems... Lets say u start the game as minmatar, u fool around abit and decide u love the stabber, so u take the advice of the veterans and specialize (isnt that what u told us CCP?.. "specialize"!) skill up all the T2 skills for a vagabond.. end of story u live happily ever after. Similar story, u are amarr, like the maller, u train up for the T2 version and next thing u know ur requested to train missile skills next!! No other race needs to do this, no vexor, moa or stabber pilot needs to enter a wildly different skill tree to fly their T2 ship.. eve isnt linear. You brought up the example of minmatar then ill go into detail. You claim minmatar are "missile users". We have -1- ship with a missile bonus (the new typhoon). You claim we are shieldtankers but apart from all the newly added ships we were armortankers in the past. Maelstrom, Cyclone Jaguar and Vaga and sometimes the Tempest are the only exceptions. And they are only exceptions because they get some more mids. A stabber was hardly ever shieldtanked. A Vaga (if not speedtanked) was in the past. So your own analogy doesnt fit. Amarr had just 2 skill areas to focus on: Lasers and armortanking. medicore Drone skills and 1 Nos skill to 4 were always enough. All other races had by default more to train to start with. Your argument that the new amarr ships are not in line with the old ones, here comes the news: apart from maybe the herectic and the af they werent too popular. And ive yet to find someone who was so uberimpressed by a lasermaller that he wakes up and says "i only wanna fly sacrileges with lasers till the end of my life". When caldari got the first ships with turretboni and useable turretslots they had to start a new training branch. When gallente got new droneboats and the droneskills were dished out they got a new training branch. When minmatar got ships with actual shieldboni and the slots for it they had to train a new branch. Amarr didnt have that yet and hence its your time to man up for something new. Nothing wrong with that. Afterall noone forces you to fly those ships if u dont like it the old laserboats are still there and especially the geddon and zealot will receive a nice buff.
Ogdru Jahad Amarr Hookers and Black Jack Flaming Hookers	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:56:00 - [85] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 30/07/2007 17:17:24 Originally by: Goumindong If you were 4 years old you would know that Khanid were originally missile ships and that they sucked so much as before this change that it doesnt matter what was done with them. now they are good. Quit whining. Exactly, Khanid are missile users wrt the games storyline! edit: Come on Kunming, just wait and see what they'll be like. I'm pretty sure you'll be singing Khanids praises when you get your hands on the new ships for the first time. :P 5% damage to ham's be it what ever damage is sweet news. what that caldari? Are you saying you get that as well? hmm i think thats just kinetic damage only LOL - :
Rafein	Posted - 2007.08.04 18:53:00 - [86] QFT, why would CCP allow Amarr to use missiles? It totally goes against their entire history. Amarr are the EM race, and lasers did primarily EM damage. Now, CCP comes along, and gives Amarr the ability to do all damage types, instead of doing mostly EM. Now, I don' know about you, but i don't recall Amarr ever having a problem with doing mostly EM. I don't recall anyone asking for Amarr to be able to switch damage away from EM damage. So we just have to ask, why CCP, why?
Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:28:00 - [87] Originally by: Rafein QFT, why would CCP allow Amarr to use missiles? It totally goes against their entire history. Amarr are the EM race, and lasers did primarily EM damage. Now, CCP comes along, and gives Amarr the ability to do all damage types, instead of doing mostly EM. Now, I don' know about you, but i don't recall Amarr ever having a problem with doing mostly EM. I don't recall anyone asking for Amarr to be able to switch damage away from EM damage. So we just have to ask, why CCP, why? All I see is Amarr asking to be able to switch from EM damage... because it pretty much sucks when it comes to taking out armor and the majority of PvPers use Armor tanking. You talk like CCP doesn't know anything about EvE... like when EA buys out a company and comes in and completly screws up everything with their unneccesary changes. Being able to use missiles only makes Amarr more well-rounded and that makes them better. And Amarr have needed to be better for a long time.
Lord Loom Loom Service Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.08.04 22:11:00 - [88] Edited by: Lord Loom on 04/08/2007 22:12:09 Originally by: Aya Otosaki I wont say that these new changes are bad because i have no clue about that. what kinda bugs me is that this change isnt rewarding the amarr players that stuck with amarr even though they sucked a bit, their are more rewarding for caldari players because they can easily cross train to amarr and by amarr i mean that khanid stuff. you realize that for the "lulz Caldari missile spammer" to crosstrain to the few Khanid ships they're looking at cruiser training to 5 (about a month with some learning skills and implants) and a whole new type of tanks, while you bullheaded laser fanboys only need to invest a week or two into missiles to be effective, or about a month to be specialized in HAMs? it rewards the open-minded Amarr players who've been waiting ages for some of their T2 ships to stop sucking, it rewards the Amarr players who've been waiting for properly tanked ships that aren't heavily cap-challenged. It does not reward the people who refused to train anything outside of the "classical" armor tank + laser gank skill tree, and rightly so. ---------- KEEP TRY!!!
Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2007.08.05 12:10:00 - [89] I'm with you Kunming. I would have the oddball classes go to Khanid Innovations maybe, with ships like the Sacrilege, Heretic, and Vengeance going back to Carthum/Viziam. That'd make the changes a bit easier to stomach, if someone wants to use the other classes that aren't so guns and armour traditionally, they could train missiles up, I'm not sure about the damnnation really, but I don't fly it, I won't comment. Just for the record, that'd still leave 5 Khanid ships, considering there were 5 Carthum ships, 3 Viziam ships, and 8 Khanids to start off with =/ A new tool in the fight for balance?
Calisto Cody Minmatar The Black Swan Society	Posted - 2007.08.05 13:46:00 - [90] Madness? THIS IS KHANID!! "I just like ships that are symmetrical, not ships with 5 propulsion jets on one side and 3 on the other and than maybe one in another random spot."



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