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Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 02:58:00 - [1] Yeah I spelled it wrong... Yeah I know I posted this once already but THAT thread got hijacked by 4 year olds. If yer gonna post in THIS thread PLEASE keep it ON TOPIC The sheer amount of posts ive seen over the past few days saying that EVE should be ANYTHING like WoW is sheer stupidity. These people should be laughed right off the server. I for one came here to get away from games where everyone is the same (except for the s-hit you wear), and dying is an inconvience only due to the time it takes you to walk back to your corpse. Ill tell you what guys that are advocating the BG idea: BGS KILLED PVP IN WOW They did. Oh I know ppl will say "What?? No, they made better PVP where lots of ppl can go just TO PVP." Thats true. They made places where ppl can go to PVP but what about outside the BGs? Once the BGs came out, world PVP dropped to almost 0. After the BGs came out, everyone went to them to PVP and essentially stopped PVPing outside of them. Do we want this for EVE? If we institute BGs for EVE everyone will gravitate to them to PVP, and noone will PVP outside them anymore, just like WoW. 2 days till im gone for good again
Sin Meng Gallente Helios Incorporated	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:12:00 - [2] It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. While it may have taken some (or all) of the spice out of spontaneous world PvP, having played the game in all its aspects for 2 and a half years I wouldn't say it "...killed PvP..." at all. A game like WoW with the kind of audience it appeals to needs to have such organization and linearity. It caused the chain reaction that we see here in EVE all the time. Change happens, those who can't and / or don't want to adapt complain. Basically, I disagree on the WoW part, but that game sucks so who cares. On the topic of having the same thing be done to EVE, I whole-heartedly agree. EVE is a sandbox with land mines, and it needs to stay that way. The players in EVE do not need to be herded like most WoW players do. A smart pilot knows where to find trouble and how to go about contributing to it. BGs are good for spontaneous youngsters and those needing instant satisfaction. The wild west architecture of EVE PvP is for those who would rather think for themselves. ------------------------- Ritalin = drone fix LAWL.
syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:14:00 - [3] I had a friend once,... ___ Too Many Anchored Cans
Lavinrac Krad Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:19:00 - [4] Why does Eve need to add Battle Grounds, Eve already has plenty... every system in Eve. Battle Grounds are for PvE based games, Eve is a PvP based game and does not need them at all. Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas THE NERF BAT COMETH! REPENT SINNER!
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:23:00 - [5] Originally by: Lavinrac Krad Why does Eve need to add Battle Grounds, Eve already has plenty... every system in Eve. Battle Grounds are for PvE based games, Eve is a PvP based game and does not need them at all. I agree but I was commenting on (well dammit now I cant find any of em but there were a few threads floating around saying that EVE should have BGs) 2 days till im gone for good again
Sacul Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:26:00 - [6] Edited by: Sacul on 01/08/2007 03:28:19 bg's? what the hell is a BG? edit: ow battlegrounds.....isn't all of eve a battleground? why the question mark? dammit did it again! ALL OF EVE IS A BATTLEGROUND! The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones!
The Blinded	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:27:00 - [7] battlegrounds... like wow has... instanced areas that pl go to pvp CTF :p >> No you cant have my stuff, when I leave Im taking it with me cause im greedy like that >>
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:27:00 - [8] Originally by: Sacul bg's? what the hell is a BG? Big Gun. Like a Quad 3500mm Artillery. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Sacul Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:30:00 - [9] Originally by: The Blinded battlegrounds... like wow has... instanced areas that pl go to pvp CTF :p VTF what the hell is ctf?? omfg u wow ppl get away from here till u learn eve lingo pls .... DS help me what is CTF? The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones!
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Sin Meng It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. While it may have taken some (or all) of the spice out of spontaneous world PvP, having played the game in all its aspects for 2 and a half years I wouldn't say it "...killed PvP..." at all. A game like WoW with the kind of audience it appeals to needs to have such organization and linearity. It caused the chain reaction that we see here in EVE all the time. Change happens, those who can't and / or don't want to adapt complain. Yeah sorry, I edited it back to what I meant. 2 days till im gone for good again

Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Sacul Originally by: The Blinded battlegrounds... like wow has... instanced areas that pl go to pvp CTF :p VTF what the hell is ctf?? omfg u wow ppl get away from here till u learn eve lingo pls .... DS help me what is CTF? CTF isnt even a WoW term... i think it might even be a military term that considerable predates WoW 2 days till im gone for good again
Ed Anger	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:33:00 - [12] it would be nice if they could find some way for multiple servers to handle systems with a large battle.
Sacul Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:38:00 - [13] I sense a weak force in the op....u do not grasp the idea of eve.....try again pls. bg'd- tcf's....damn trying to confuse me with big acronyms :( time for bed i reckon The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones!
syphurous Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:44:00 - [14] WTF is ASAP OMFGBBQKITTEN or is that TMI ? FYI, IDK. BBLTDYT ___ Too Many Anchored Cans
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 03:57:00 - [15] Originally by: Sacul I sense a weak force in the op....u do not grasp the idea of eve.....try again pls. yer saying EVE needs BGs? 2 days till im gone for good again
Amandrace Minmatar Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Amandrace on 01/08/2007 04:02:14 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=455615 ^^^ thats one of those bg-in-eve threads you mighta been talkin about
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:08:00 - [17] All of Eve is a battleground. If you log in to Eve online, you are already in a battleground. There is no game without the risk of PvP without consent. Please don't make this game like Wow. D: --- Grismar.net
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 01/08/2007 03:36:37 Originally by: Sacul Originally by: The Blinded battlegrounds... like wow has... instanced areas that pl go to pvp CTF :p VTF what the hell is ctf?? omfg u wow ppl get away from here till u learn eve lingo pls .... DS help me what is CTF? CTF isnt even a WoW term... i think it might even be a military term but it considerably predates WoW Yeah yeah yeah, now answer the question. What does it mean? Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Richard Aiel stuff You wanna know why they instanced PVP in WoW? In instanced PVP you can LIMIT the # of people based on what the server/node can actually HANDLE, so you don't have 200 people raiding Orgrimmar and suddenly the server crashes. With more subscribers come larger blobs, you got these 200-man blobs flying around, and when it takes 2 minutes to turn on a module, nobody is really PVP'ing. Even when you play a pure PVP game like BF2, the server has a certain # of slots based on bandwidth and CPU. I think WoW is an excellent game that can teach CCP a few lessons, such as good UI design, and snappy game performance, but ultimately it's a different animal. I would love to see what would happen if Blizzard applied themselves to dark gritty SciFi.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:28:00 - [20] PS - Every system in Eve is intended to be its own "BG" Thats why we have gates, to seperate one BG from the next.

JamesTalon Caldari Electric Fury Corp	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:38:00 - [21] CTF means Capture The Flag. And if you really didn't know what it meant, you need to play more FPS (First Person Shooter) games, its a common game mode "Return with your shield, or on it."
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:39:00 - [22] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 01/08/2007 03:36:37 Originally by: Sacul Originally by: The Blinded battlegrounds... like wow has... instanced areas that pl go to pvp CTF :p VTF what the hell is ctf?? omfg u wow ppl get away from here till u learn eve lingo pls .... DS help me what is CTF? CTF isnt even a WoW term... i think it might even be a military term but it considerably predates WoW Yeah yeah yeah, now answer the question. What does it mean? Are you serious that yopu dont know that CTF means capture the flag?? I never answered as i assumed that the guy I quoted was being sarcastic... 2 days till im gone for good again
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 04:44:00 - [23] AMEN brother preach it! Here are the cold hard facts of Eve. Without those of us that shoot, kill and loot other players all this mining and ratting would be a waste. When I bag another player or they bag me all the wheels turn in the game. A ship gets bought, fittings get bought, ore gets mined, builders build, and the cycle begins again. Hate BoB, love Goons, hate them both, despise Privateers, WHO CARES? Without us Eve is nothing. In other words, (in my best Jack voice) You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall, TRUTH! You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! And the truth is, the chaos of this game is what makes it the damn best MMO out there by far. Keep your WoW crap away from the purity of this game, CCP has it right, the rest only wish they could make a game this good. I thank you (steps off the soap box) Hooch, CCP Fanboi
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.08.01 05:16:00 - [24] Edited by: Death Kill on 01/08/2007 05:16:11 Originally by: Richard Aiel Are you serious that yopu dont know that CTF means capture the flag?? It could have ment anything really. Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 05:43:00 - [25] Originally by: The Hooch AMEN brother preach it! Here are the cold hard facts of Eve. Without those of us that shoot, kill and loot other players all this mining and ratting would be a waste. When I bag another player or they bag me all the wheels turn in the game. A ship gets bought, fittings get bought, ore gets mined, builders build, and the cycle begins again. Hate BoB, love Goons, hate them both, despise Privateers, WHO CARES? Without us Eve is nothing. In other words, (in my best Jack voice) You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall, TRUTH! You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! And the truth is, the chaos of this game is what makes it the damn best MMO out there by far. Keep your WoW crap away from the purity of this game, CCP has it right, the rest only wish they could make a game this good. I thank you (steps off the soap box) Hooch, CCP Fanboi QFT an you know, the funny thing, is im a missioner not a PVPer in game, and even I can tell bringing WoW stuff into EVE wouild be a bad thing :p 2 days till im gone for good again
Raekone	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:07:00 - [26] Edited by: Raekone on 01/08/2007 07:08:18 Two things. 1) I liked the idea posted by the other guy where you have a WOW-esque battleground kind of place to go. Would let us "carebears" do some REAL PvP instead of having to contend with chicken**** 10:1 gate camping cowards [edit: I know this notion will be laughed at as it would require some actual pvp skill - my bad sry] 2) Battlegrounds didn't ruin PvP in WOW. Battlegrounds was merely given as an alternative, an extra option. People chose to go to battlegrounds simply because it's more fun than stabbing STV questers in the back 10 times per 5 mins.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Richard Aiel Originally by: The Hooch AMEN brother preach it! Here are the cold hard facts of Eve. Without those of us that shoot, kill and loot other players all this mining and ratting would be a waste. When I bag another player or they bag me all the wheels turn in the game. A ship gets bought, fittings get bought, ore gets mined, builders build, and the cycle begins again. Hate BoB, love Goons, hate them both, despise Privateers, WHO CARES? Without us Eve is nothing. In other words, (in my best Jack voice) You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall, TRUTH! You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! And the truth is, the chaos of this game is what makes it the damn best MMO out there by far. Keep your WoW crap away from the purity of this game, CCP has it right, the rest only wish they could make a game this good. I thank you (steps off the soap box) Hooch, CCP Fanboi QFT an you know, the funny thing, is im a missioner not a PVPer in game, and even I can tell bringing WoW stuff into EVE wouild be a bad thing :p EvE could do with some PvE improvements (I'd like making ISK to be a little more fun), but yes I very much agree. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:35:00 - [28] Edited by: Spenz on 01/08/2007 07:36:21 Quote: I would love to see what would happen if Blizzard applied themselves to dark gritty SciFi. There would be 3 primary races. One is a race of militaristic humans with fairly linear technology. One would be a race of super advanced beings who are psychic, while the third race would be a hoard of bloodthirsty aliens that like to blob alot. Blizzard has, by no stretch of anyones imagination, originality in anything they make. What they DO have is the talent to make these cliche ideas work very well. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Raekone Would let us "carebears" do some REAL PvP If the PVP is done in an instance, without consequences, how is that 'real'?
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:45:00 - [30] [copy and paste] Eve isn't Harry Potter, where two people challenge each other to a duel and flick wands at each other. Eve isn't the ancient Roman coliseum, where you pit two enemies against each other in a small area under strict, organized rules. Eve isn't a sport, where both teams get the same number of players on the field and compete for points. Eve is outer space. Eve is chaos. Eve is a war with no boundaries, with no morality, and the greatest honor is in victory. Fairness, organization and security all take a backseat. [/copy and paste] --- Grismar.net

Banana Torres The Green Banana Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.01 07:55:00 - [31] Well, firstly let me say I have never played WoW, so I could not go back to WoW. And it also means that I don't really know what I am talking about, but as this has never stopped anyone posting on theses forums before, I won't let it stop me now. Now, as far as I understand it WoW battlegrounds allow WoW players to PvP in a controlled enviornment. Which for some people is not real PvP, because they need to feel that they have in some way really hurt their opponent. However the OP goes further and states that battlegrounds killed PvP in WoW. Well, I think that this is a red herring, a strawman argument. Unless CCP were to allow sovereignty issues to be decided in battlegrounds then PVP will reamin in Eve. Hmm, thinking about it, sovereignty should be decided in battlegrounds then we wouldn't get the "waaaa, waaaa, waaaa, the server cant handle a gazzilion Vs gazzilion fight" threads. Anyway, castlewars didn't kil PvP in Runescape cause the players didn't let it happen, if battlegrounds killed PvP in WoW then that is what the players wanted. It would be an iteresting experiment to see if Eve players are more like WoW players than they would care to admit.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:17:00 - [32] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 01/08/2007 08:20:58 Eve has a lot to learn from Wow... Let's just give the simplest example : user interface... As far as the battlegrounds idea is concerned, if part of the factional warfare could be like it (pvp missions, where you have to accomplish an objective in opposing team from different empires)... it would be one of the greatest way to bring people to start PvP. Enough with the anti-Wow threads... yeah, Wow has a different PvP side from Eve, and people playing here because it appeals to them more than Pvp from there. But on a lot of aspects, Eve is inferior to Wow. UI and PvE to mind... An equivalent to Wow battlegrounds would bring people to start pew pew in Eve. Actually, that was how I thought factional warfare would be like, and that is one of the reason I look forward to it. How can more way to Pew Pew be seen as a bad thing ? And, and before the stupid rebuttal... I never played Wow... nor do I intend to. There is no lazors there. Edit : However, putting those battlegrounds in the sandbox side of Eve (null-sec) would be a bad idea... I agree a lot with that. If they are to be copied from there, their place is in factional warfare. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Zaqar	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:25:00 - [33] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather As far as the battlegrounds idea is concerned, if part of the factional warfare could be like it (pvp missions, where you have to accomplish an objective in opposing team from different empires)... it would be one of the greatest way to bring people to start PvP. Fine, as long as there is no instancing. Everything should be done out in the open in the existing solar systems.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Zaqar Originally by: Ares Lightfeather As far as the battlegrounds idea is concerned, if part of the factional warfare could be like it (pvp missions, where you have to accomplish an objective in opposing team from different empires)... it would be one of the greatest way to bring people to start PvP. Fine, as long as there is no instancing. Everything should be done out in the open in the existing solar systems. Agreed... I always found the instance concept was stupid anyway, and played mostly games without instances in them. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Jack Target Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:35:00 - [35] The OP is completely right. BGs did kill off PvP in WoW. I remember before BGs existed - there would be exciting running battles between Horde and Alliance villages. Does anyone here remember how Ashenvale Forest used to be like? Do you remember the Alliance/Horde standoffs and battles over Ashenvale Bridge? Well, they don't happen any more. For the love of God, please don't let that happen to Eve Online.
heheheh Singularity. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:41:00 - [36] Originally by: Raekone Edited by: Raekone on 01/08/2007 07:08:18 Two things. 1) I liked the idea posted by the other guy where you have a WOW-esque battleground kind of place to go. Would let us "carebears" do some REAL PvP instead of having to contend with chicken**** 10:1 gate camping cowards [edit: I know this notion will be laughed at as it would require some actual pvp skill - my bad sry] 2) Battlegrounds didn't ruin PvP in WOW. Battlegrounds was merely given as an alternative, an extra option. People chose to go to battlegrounds simply because it's more fun than stabbing STV questers in the back 10 times per 5 mins. I beleive you are one of the people that the OP (and I) thinks should go back to wow. and yes BG's ruined PVP in it.
Lord MuffloN Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.01 09:25:00 - [37] Please don't compare WoW and EVE, their two totaly different games and two totaly different playerbases to cater to, and quite frankly, most don't want to spend hours and hours on something that can be undone in 30 seconds by another player, thus WoW is bigger then EVE. (Oh and, PvP in WoW was fine until BG's, they suck, their a grind).
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 09:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Lord MuffloN Please don't compare WoW and EVE, their two totaly different games and two totaly different playerbases to cater to, and quite frankly, most don't want to spend hours and hours on something that can be undone in 30 seconds by another player, thus WoW is bigger then EVE. (Oh and, PvP in WoW was fine until BG's, they suck, their a grind). Strangely, that what people said of Wow PvP before the BG, that it was only a stupid grind of players lvl 70 VS players lvl 10... Now it's a grind of lvl 70 against lvl 70. I fail to see your point. As for the other point you have, yeah, both game are different. And why are you insisting in not adapting the parts from Wow to eve ? How bringing more ways to Pew pew can be a bad thing in EVE ? -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Lastdon	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:07:00 - [39] I would agree on the BG's no need for them. I like the hard looses. On the comparing grinding for gear or ISK is kind of the same thing. Every game has its elites this game just requires lots of SP to sport the best stuff.
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:08:00 - [40] I've played WoW, I still do. its a heck of a light-hearted fun game. If you've not tried it, you should at least play the trial. The Op is right (though i've not seen anyone arguing otherwise), battleground pvp would not suit EvE in the same format as it does WoW. WoW is not about long term consequences of actions. If you die, at worst, you've a few minute run back to your corpse and some damage to items (easily repaired in town) then you can jump straight back into the fight (similar to FPS games tbh). To have long term consequence of actions, you need consequences in pvp, meaning, you either need to lose experience, items or wealth. If you can die in pvp and can jump straight back in your titan and go back to the front line again, not only would everyone be flying titans, but it would make the whole point of 0.0 warfare pointless, no? PvP and alliance warfare is as much about denying your opponent access to resources as it is getting your own alliance 'ahead' in the game. In WoW, this simply isn't a requirement, in EvE of course it is a necessity. Replacing losses & logistics are an all too important feature in what makes the alliance war machine tick.

Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:21:00 - [41] You're claiming that the idea of arena-like, battleground where there could be "even" fights (same number of ships, same isk involved...) wouldn't work in Eve ? Here is how I see "battlegrounds" in Eve. High sec : numbers are equal, limited to a equal number of same size ships, a certain amount of isk, or something else, whatever needed to balance things out. The same missions occur in low sec. Randomly (or not) missions are created by agents, and they pit you against other players from other nation, with the possibility for pirates to jump in too... Instead of stupidly bashing whatever comes from the first MMORPG in term of subscriber, take what make it great, adapt it to eve, and propose it to CCP. Some can't be adapted, because Eve wouldn't be Eve, but even if consensual PvP, magic, elves cannot be adapted, battleground can make Eve greater than it is now. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Chrysalis D'lilth	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather You're claiming that the idea of arena-like, battleground where there could be "even" fights (same number of ships, same isk involved...) wouldn't work in Eve ? Here is how I see "battlegrounds" in Eve. High sec : numbers are equal, limited to a equal number of same size ships, a certain amount of isk, or something else, whatever needed to balance things out. The same missions occur in low sec. Randomly (or not) missions are created by agents, and they pit you against other players from other nation, with the possibility for pirates to jump in too... Instead of stupidly bashing whatever comes from the first MMORPG in term of subscriber, take what make it great, adapt it to eve, and propose it to CCP. Some can't be adapted, because Eve wouldn't be Eve, but even if consensual PvP, magic, elves cannot be adapted, battleground can make Eve greater than it is now. No, thats not what i'm saying. I'm saying that couldn't work in EvE warfare - war isn't about equal numbers fighting equal numbers, its about winning, whatever and however you can. With that said, some kind of automated 'space arena' system where pilots can participate in 5 on 5 arena style fights outside of mainstream alliance warefare might work. (we have alliance tournaments, though they are infrequent) People have talked about some kind of 'pvp' or 'tournament' league. Such a thing might work as a logical extension of that. It may also draw more people into the pvp aspect of the game.
Liaya Perkone	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:37:00 - [43] Edited by: Liaya on 01/08/2007 10:38:06 Battlegrounds made the PvP in WoW better, world PvP was a joke, it's hard to run up to someone who's not paying attention and smack him around, it's not hard to run around in a group of 20 people gangbanging anyone you find. World PvP was highly overrated, and not to mention the amount of time you would spend finding someone, and seeing as how you could two or three shot someone in WoW easily it would be over so fast. Battlegrounds gave you a place to find PvP, against people who wanted to PvP, and on relatively equal terms. And they didn't kill world PvP, it was the other changes that Blizzard made that did, for example considering rooftop camping as an 'exploit'. And they could never work in Eve anyway, not without changing what some people consider what makes PvP in Eve different from games like WoW. You can't have someone join a battleground, get popped and respawn in his ship again, while it might make for a more fun experience for the person getting popped, but people aren't going to stand for it.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 10:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth Hum sorry, that wasn't aimed at you directly. More at the Pvp carebears above... Strangely, as soon as you say that their play-style wouldn't be affected, they don't answer anymore. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Yebatcu Tesada	Posted - 2007.08.01 11:39:00 - [45] Edited by: Yebatcu Tesada on 01/08/2007 11:40:46 You cant compare WoW PvP and EvE PvP. In WoW territory means nothing, you cant conquer anything. While in EvE territory is almost everything. Awarded BG PvP system like in WoW killed world PvP. 90% of people in BG are PvPing only for rewards! BG in EvE would suck! PvP must exist becouse of PvP not becouse of rewards!
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Richard Aiel stuff You wanna know why they instanced PVP in WoW? In instanced PVP you can LIMIT the # of people based on what the server/node can actually HANDLE, so you don't have 200 people raiding Orgrimmar and suddenly the server crashes. With more subscribers come larger blobs, you got these 200-man blobs flying around, and when it takes 2 minutes to turn on a module, nobody is really PVP'ing. Even when you play a pure PVP game like BF2, the server has a certain # of slots based on bandwidth and CPU. I think WoW is an excellent game that can teach CCP a few lessons, such as good UI design, and snappy game performance, but ultimately it's a different animal. I would love to see what would happen if Blizzard applied themselves to dark gritty SciFi. thats why we need instanced bg's. sorry but everythign else will never work (except extreme other game mechanic changes destroying blob viability).
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:10:00 - [47] Originally by: Cipher7 Even when you play a pure PVP game like BF2, the server has a certain # of slots based on bandwidth and CPU. Not an MMO, nor very similar to EVE or WoW.
The Hooch Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:46:00 - [48] I have played MMOs since the late 90's when they were barely MMO's at all. The Starfleet Command games had a good idea when it came to PvP or taking systems. They had Heat, then MPlay, and last GameSpy. GameSpy had ladder leagues where whole fleets fought it out for who was the best of the best. It was all about PvP. On the Dynaverse you had a map, your side could take and hold ground, you could completely destroy your enemy and his allies. Hell some of the best times I have ever had in gaming were there. Now if people want to see who is the top gun in Eve, just want to settle a personal beef with someone then PERHAPS, perhaps CCP should consider a PvP server for such things. But only if what you do there effects what you do on the primary server. If you die, you lose the ship you were in, and your implants. Without risk of loss then pvp is meaningless. I am sick of people that do not Pvp ***ing about being ganked by (fill in the blank) or gate campers and what have you. When they were moving ore, implants, combat ships, or mods to make money off the people that do fight. You make your living off the wars of others so stop whining or calling for the deluting of this game when you are a victom of the very thing you make money from. The makers of this game say in the very beginning "death comes to us all" that means this game has pvp everywhere. Please go play Ever*** or something that makes you feel safe. Hooch
Susa Ou	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:47:00 - [49] CTF is 'capture the flag' - in wow there are 10v10,20v20, and 40v40 BG (battle grounds) instanced pvp areas where people go to die many times without any concequence other then dying. CTF is the format of the 10v10, where both teams zerg the other teams base, steal their flag and 'cap it'. WoW is easy, its fun, its relaxing, and it takes almost no skill to play. Its a proper video game: turn it on, do some killing, turn off. Eve is not a video game in this sense, it is a proper 'world' with a complex economy and a huge size. . .compairing the two is to compair totaly different MMO genres. Now on to the important stuff. A lot of WoW types want lowsec and high sec to be 'safe sec', they want immunity to rat and do missions, they want to no be ganked, and why want to avoid pvp untill they are ready. They call for nurfs to everything under the sun (some are legit, but really. . .its getting out of hand) and they belive that the defender in a pvp situation should have ample opportunity to have the choise not to fight. True EvE players understand that when you hit the undock button you are in a pvp situation, and '1.0' is simply there to tell you that your chances of finding yourself in a pvp scanario is low - but - you can still be killed. A true EvE person want to see low sec become a pirate infested pvp battle zone where empires cannot truly control but tight gangs of thugs can go around and kill people, that 0.0 is where larger groups of people gather and try to make something, and 0.0 is where you get some r&r. 1.0 has become almost impossible to pvp in (first expantion of the game into 'mass market), that low sec has become empty (first generation wow immigration), and 0.0 is becoming more dominated by the ruling powers due to new mods that allow them to essentially force a siege on a system (second generation wow transplants). . . WoW has been bad for eve, its players have been chipping at its core 'live or die' pvp mentality - some people call this 'selling out'. we will see.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:48:00 - [50] I remember us butting heads a few times some time ago, but your post is filled with immeasurable amounts of truth. Rock on! ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION \| Forum Whiners - Unite!

Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:00:00 - [51] BG's didn't kill world PVP. The people voted with their feet, nobody freakin forced them there.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:07:00 - [52] You know, I see a lot of people in this thread expounding on the grandeur of EVE PvP. Maybe one of you can educate me. Where can I, a 3 month old character, go with my frigate/cruiser/battlecruiser to get a PvP experience that is NOT a gank? All I need is a system name or even region. Somewhere I can go and gain PvP experience without taking a lead pipe up my arse in every single fight? I am looking for solo or small group (i.e. 2 or 3 friends with me) PvP by the way. Don't want to let the secret out to the general public? Then send me an evemail, I really want to know. I think this surfacing of topics suggesting a WoW type battleground is in part a portion of the player base that really would like to PvP without having to put up with the elitism or the seemingly endless ganks. I am not even all that worried about loss, but I can only learn so much when a fight consists of warp in we lock each other bright flash and bye bye ship bright flash wake up in fresh clone. For my trouble I might have an evemail or conversation invite waiting with some snide remarks laced with interweb l33t speak. Perhaps they will have something witty this time to say about my parentage. The point is for some being ganked is not fun. Being ganked over and over and over again gets less fun as time goes by. Being ganked with 10 to 1 odds against you I would class as a failure of the system as often as it happens in EVE. Eventually you get people adapting and no longer going were they can be ganked. Thus I see threads calling for new mechanisms to force and/or entice people to go into PvP active areas. Its really no surprise people have started looking for ways to deal with the issue.
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Sin Meng It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. While it may have taken some (or all) of the spice out of spontaneous world PvP, having played the game in all its aspects for 2 and a half years I wouldn't say it "...killed PvP..." at all. BG's killed wow pvp, plain and simple. But yea, eve != wow and lets keep it that way. ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Nur Vadenn Where can I, a 3 month old character, go with my frigate/cruiser/battlecruiser to get a PvP experience Join Eve Uni. Or take an Agony Unleashed pvp class. Or heck join any decent pvp corp that takes new players, they will teach ya.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:15:00 - [55] However, the ganker are mostly right. Eve is one of the only places where ganking still is the only way to PvP. Maybe that's what they fear for Eve... setting equivalent PvP arena in Eve might... ok will draw people asking for more interesting occupation than a gank away from their killboards. By the way, stop equating battlegrounds with instanced places where ship respawn... instance is a characteristic of WoW, respawning with no penalty is the same. The concept of a battleground in WoW is a place where people with the same number of players and about the same skills and levels meet. Making the equivalent in Eve means creating a mission where your opponents are players in about equal numbers. Others can still join the fight (ahhh, eve, and all it subtleties), especially if the missions are supposed to be in low sec. That what adapting good things from WoW means. Take away the element that make WoW what it is, put Eve element instead (being jumped by pirates during a caldari VS gallente factional warfare mission) and you'll have a great addition to a game, from another game. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
MissileRus	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:23:00 - [56] i heard 90% of wow players think blizzard intruduced new server tech and new gameplay never existing in mmorpgs before it, most also think WoW was the first that started the mmorpg genre... seriously.. and its very disturbing.. but then again 90% of wow players are 12-15... or atleast acting like it.. WoW brought nothing new to the genre except a few million first time mmo players to the market.. witch is good and bad, the good thing is that theres more players for other companies to lure, bad is most of them are kids and/or never played mutch other mmo before so they have expectations of same gameplay... on most developing mmo forums ther3e are hoards of these kids now, wanting this and that etc.. ive been looking forward for Age of conan for quite some time, its rating will hopefully protect alittle against the kiddie invasion, but being able to see boobs in a mmo will also draw extreme numbers of them.. the forum is absolutely full of wow kiddies now, and theres already stuff changing with the game to satisfy an audience the game was not made for.. sadly this is how it works now.. SOE were imo the first proof of how bad it can be when going after this kid crowd, changing the game to be more like blizzards wow then unique that it was before. AOC i feel will now flop too as they are increasing their efforts going after this crowd.. it will not be long before i will see them remove their rating and allowing 12 year olds to play it. also minimal use of instancing promise will most likely transform to instancing in every dungeon and encounter.. if you see someone that played wow, and tries to change other games, please forum pvp with them until they leave... not all wow players are like that, but id say most... and if a wow player is offended by being called as kid, he is defenetly like that.. im sure CCP will go after the crowd as so many others currently are doing, but hopefully CCP will not go to far when doing so. we can only hope, and defend the game from corruption by making wow kids cry and go somewhere else keep suiciding in high-sec and population will drop, lag will slowly leave, eve will be saved.. players have the power in eve, if we dont want wow kiddies ruining it, we dont let them.. raise fist --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:25:00 - [57] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Nur Vadenn Where can I, a 3 month old character, go with my frigate/cruiser/battlecruiser to get a PvP experience Join Eve Uni. Or take an Agony Unleashed pvp class. The point I was trying to make is that I have yet to find solo or small group PvP that I or any low skilled player in game has a chance in. From everything I've read (could be wrong) the suggestions you give answer the problem with more and bigger blobs. For some reason I just don't see it as very fun to have to bring 10 or 15 friends along so I can blob harder than the other guy. I was hoping there was at least a remote chance that there might be some potential for solo PvP. I guess I was wrong. Probably why you have so many people looking for a way to salvage and change the state of the game. Originally by: Cipher7 Or heck join any decent pvp corp that takes new players, they will teach ya. Another problem with this game. Finding a good guild/corporation/group in this game is nearly impossible. The quality of people just seems to be so low. I won't even start on the groups that claim to be PvP oriented. Shame really.
podadot	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:33:00 - [58] Excuse me, but as far as I'm concerned, Wow doesn't have PVP. I tried it and quit it because of this (got to level 53 btw, so don't say I didn't give it a fair chance). In Wow, world PVP just amounts to wasting a bit of time and has zero effect on your game. Battlegrounds are just a pure waste of time, but at least you can 'win', though ultimately it is little more than ************. Wow is a well made game and good, mindless fun. That's ok. But please, let's not make Eve more like Wow, unless it is we are talking about improving the ui or something like that.
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:38:00 - [59] Originally by: Sin Meng It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. Stop right there. The elegance and brilliance of Eve is that outside of NPCs, it's NOT scripted. You can do ANYTHING you want to, ANYTIME you want to do it. The very nature of Eve makes it really DIFFICULT to play as a loner - you have to have friends and they have to have friends - you're not going to be Mark the Merc Saves The Universe. All of this happens because it is NOT scripted. Please, go back to WoW now. Close your Eve account, send me your isk and stuff, and go play WoW. ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
grimda Caldari Serenity Engineering and Transport Company	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:45:00 - [60] Edited by: grimda on 01/08/2007 15:45:11 "I'm saying that couldn't work in EvE warfare - war isn't about equal numbers fighting equal numbers, its about winning, whatever and however you can." One would hope that a war is fought to achieve an objective not obtainable in peace. Military action is often called the last tool of diplomacy, using force to take what cannot be bargained for. . Acting VP Serenity Engineering and Transport

d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:48:00 - [61] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Sin Meng It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. Stop right there. The elegance and brilliance of Eve is that outside of NPCs, it's NOT scripted. You can do ANYTHING you want to, ANYTIME you want to do it. The very nature of Eve makes it really DIFFICULT to play as a loner - you have to have friends and they have to have friends - you're not going to be Mark the Merc Saves The Universe. All of this happens because it is NOT scripted. Please, go back to WoW now. Close your Eve account, send me your isk and stuff, and go play WoW. and that needs to be stopped because we constantly crash the nodes:9
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:51:00 - [62] Enforced honour is valueless. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:51:00 - [63] Originally by: d026 Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Sin Meng It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. Stop right there. The elegance and brilliance of Eve is that outside of NPCs, it's NOT scripted. You can do ANYTHING you want to, ANYTIME you want to do it. The very nature of Eve makes it really DIFFICULT to play as a loner - you have to have friends and they have to have friends - you're not going to be Mark the Merc Saves The Universe. All of this happens because it is NOT scripted. Please, go back to WoW now. Close your Eve account, send me your isk and stuff, and go play WoW. and that needs to be stopped because we constantly crash the nodes:9 Not entirely sure about that though...I mean, we can give people incentive not to blob but when it comes down to it the players make the decisions, no? Risking potential node crashes seems like a pretty balanced consequence for extreme blobbing. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION \| Forum Whiners - Unite!
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:52:00 - [64] Edited by: d026 on 01/08/2007 15:54:00 Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: d026 Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Sin Meng It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. Stop right there. The elegance and brilliance of Eve is that outside of NPCs, it's NOT scripted. You can do ANYTHING you want to, ANYTIME you want to do it. The very nature of Eve makes it really DIFFICULT to play as a loner - you have to have friends and they have to have friends - you're not going to be Mark the Merc Saves The Universe. All of this happens because it is NOT scripted. Please, go back to WoW now. Close your Eve account, send me your isk and stuff, and go play WoW. and that needs to be stopped because we constantly crash the nodes:9 Not entirely sure about that though...I mean, we can give people incentive not to blob but when it comes down to it the players make the decisions, no? Risking potential node crashes seems like a pretty balanced consequence for extreme blobbing. giving the player the ability to crash teh servers is just extremely bad programming, plain simple..
heheheh Singularity. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:56:00 - [65] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Lord MuffloN Please don't compare WoW and EVE, their two totaly different games and two totaly different playerbases to cater to, and quite frankly, most don't want to spend hours and hours on something that can be undone in 30 seconds by another player, thus WoW is bigger then EVE. (Oh and, PvP in WoW was fine until BG's, they suck, their a grind). Strangely, that what people said of Wow PvP before the BG, that it was only a stupid grind of players lvl 70 VS players lvl 10... Now it's a grind of lvl 70 against lvl 70. I fail to see your point. I fail to see yours also as your facts are wrong. Firstly Before BG's in wow there was no level 70s, and when you killed people levels below you, you got no honour anyway. The BG grind is totally different to the grind pre BG. People used to attack towns and have huge fights. Bgs are pointless little games, such as wtf ctf, that add nothing whatsoever to the gameplay. They are something EVE definatly does not need, PVP with no point.
grimda Caldari Serenity Engineering and Transport Company	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:00:00 - [66] Also, the devs in Eve have stated they are 'witnessing nations building up' or some such. We're all a giant experiment in human behavior. I don't think the devs would seriously consider segmenting the 'world' in the first place. Acting VP Serenity Engineering and Transport
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:41:00 - [67] Edited by: Richard Aiel on 01/08/2007 16:44:19 Originally by: Banana Torres blah... However the OP goes further and states that battlegrounds killed PvP in WoW. more blah... read the edit... killed "world" PVP which it did. Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Zaqar Originally by: Ares Lightfeather As far as the battlegrounds idea is concerned, if part of the factional warfare could be like it (pvp missions, where you have to accomplish an objective in opposing team from different empires)... it would be one of the greatest way to bring people to start PvP. Fine, as long as there is no instancing. Everything should be done out in the open in the existing solar systems. Agreed... I always found the instance concept was stupid anyway, and played mostly games without instances in them. then you agree with me as the BGs as they are in WoW are instanced. 2 days till im gone for good again
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:46:00 - [68] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 01/08/2007 15:54:00 Originally by: Tarminic I mean, we can give people incentive not to blob but when it comes down to it the players make the decisions, no? Risking potential node crashes seems like a pretty balanced consequence for extreme blobbing. giving the player the ability to crash teh servers is just extremely bad programming, plain simple.. Well technically it would be bad design, not bad programming. Unfortunately the problem is that if CCP puts permanent "artificial" limitations on server capacity then it can be more easily exploited - if the servers are limited to 500 people per system than to make a system invincible you just need to have 500 people afk in it, because no invading forces can enter. Granted, lag has a similar effect but players are still given the option to enter, even if they're wading into a lagswamp. Thankfully, lag rarely "favors" any side, where a set-in-stone game mechanic could be exploited by attackers or defenders. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION \| Forum Whiners - Unite!
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:47:00 - [69] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Lord MuffloN Please don't compare WoW and EVE, their two totaly different games and two totaly different playerbases to cater to, and quite frankly, most don't want to spend hours and hours on something that can be undone in 30 seconds by another player, thus WoW is bigger then EVE. (Oh and, PvP in WoW was fine until BG's, they suck, their a grind). Strangely, that what people said of Wow PvP before the BG, that it was only a stupid grind of players lvl 70 VS players lvl 10... Now it's a grind of lvl 70 against lvl 70. They CANT have said that... there were noi lvl 70s before BGs came out. 2 days till im gone for good again
Taint	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:49:00 - [70] Thers only one way to make pvp, to kill who ever you like where ever you like. The rest is just pure BS

Maxpie Cross Roads	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:54:00 - [71] Eve = Chess WoW = Candyland He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things.
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:57:00 - [72] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather You're claiming that the idea of arena-like, battleground where there could be "even" fights (same number of ships, same isk involved...) wouldn't work in Eve ? This is where you fail BTW, as Bgs arent even like that in WoW most of the time. Imagine this: PVP area filled with on one side t1 frigates and cruisers (mainly mission runners) and on the other side, all T2 ships with full faction setups. Enter the idea of the TWINK... an alt character made to stay at the highest level that the BG allows and gets fitted with the best gear and enchantments RL money can buy, and damn near EVERY Horde has one. So those non twinks on the other side, that are fighting in the stuff they use regularily (and mind you in WoW, its not yer character that wins the fight, its the gear) to lvl etc get massacred by those with twinks, and hense, alliance almost never win (on any server I played on - and now its worse now that the BGs are cross server). See, if you dont know about the game that yer writing about, how can you say the BG is or isnt a good thing when you dont even know WHAT a BG IS having never played the game and experienced one? I could start writing about how I hated te dragon skeletons in runescape but having never played the game, Id be talking out my ass (like you are now lol) 2 days till im gone for good again
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:59:00 - [73] I'll keep this on topic. If you want to talk about WoW, go whine on their forums So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Blacktail Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:59:00 - [74] Edited by: Blacktail on 01/08/2007 17:01:17 Originally by: Nur Vadenn Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Nur Vadenn Where can I, a 3 month old character, go with my frigate/cruiser/battlecruiser to get a PvP experience Join Eve Uni. Or take an Agony Unleashed pvp class. The point I was trying to make is that I have yet to find solo or small group PvP that I or any low skilled player in game has a chance in. From everything I've read (could be wrong) the suggestions you give answer the problem with more and bigger blobs. For some reason I just don't see it as very fun to have to bring 10 or 15 friends along so I can blob harder than the other guy. I was hoping there was at least a remote chance that there might be some potential for solo PvP. I guess I was wrong. Probably why you have so many people looking for a way to salvage and change the state of the game. Originally by: Cipher7 Or heck join any decent pvp corp that takes new players, they will teach ya. Another problem with this game. Finding a good guild/corporation/group in this game is nearly impossible. The quality of people just seems to be so low. I won't even start on the groups that claim to be PvP oriented. Shame really. This is going to come out offensive, but your post irks me. It's riddled with fallacies. You want to solo pvp in your frigate or cruiser, but you're upset that you need more than that to kill a BS? It bothers you that if your skills are lower, then you need more numbers to compensate? Honestly, it sounds like you haven't even tried. I think you're just whining because it seems like it might be difficult. It really isn't. There are hundreds of skilled small PVP corporations that will take you if you just show the initiative. Take your frigate out and tackle for more skilled corpmates in small roaming gangs if you want. Fly an EWAR frigate, and you're instantly useful. I could go to the newbie help channel and ask "does anyone want to come pvp with me?" get a few responses. Two cruisers and a BC is easily a large enough gang to go to low or zero security with. Heck, I've spent the last week wandering into 0.0 in a kestrel for kicks. It's not hard to do, and this myth that you're going to get ganked in the very first system needs to stop. Use the map, and think ahead, and it's very hard to get popped by a camp. Use your logistics, fly what you can afford to replace, and just go out and try something. You'll find EVE rewards initiative.
MaDeX	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:01:00 - [75] If EvE becomes like WoW, ill quit. Simple.
Blacktail Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:02:00 - [76] And on-topic, here's my response to the other thread (which I apparently killed): While I agree with the OP's sentiment, I wholeheartedly disagree with the implementation. One of the earlier posters had put it as a way for people to "have their cake and eat it too". I think that's a perfect way of describing it. If anything, EVE needs more immersion, more interactivity, and more pull away from the safety and banality of empire space. The possibility of reward in the face of great risk should pull people away from empire, into low and zero security space. With an instanced battlefield available for empire-dwellers, where is the encouragement to spread out and populate lower security space? It basically adds a barrier that chops EVE in half between people who want chaos and unpredictability, and people who want all the cards laid on the table before they risk their money. I'd much rather have the chaotic EVE. Daring empire entrepeneurs should be constantly tempted by the luctrative rewards of lower security space. Pirates should be drawn in turn by the lucrative rewards those PVE'ers carry. Force more interaction, and the more negative, the better, I say! It should be a constant, unavoidable struggle between the two. And the greater the risk, the greater the reward. As an afterthought: If PVE'ers can assemble a 5 man gang to fight in these supposed battlegrounds, why can't they take that 5 man gang and go to low or zero security. In my experience that's a great roaming gang size. Enough people to win 75% of the fights you'd get, and small enough to escape from the other 25%. What's stopping people from doing that other than fear of the unknown?
Richard Aiel Caldari MicroFunks	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:58:00 - [77] And to all o those guys tellin me not to compare WoW an EVE... read what I said until you realize that Im not comparing them. 2 days till im gone for good again
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.01 18:44:00 - [78] Originally by: Richard Aiel And to all o those guys tellin me not to compare WoW an EVE... read what I said until you realize that Im not comparing them. Well you're saying what would happen if elements from WoW came to EVE, so in effect, you're making comparisons. Just not so direct. If people want to stop the discussions about WoW-EVE, don't talk about them. The reason why comparing happens so much is, that it happens so much. So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
tikinish	Posted - 2007.08.01 18:55:00 - [79] well i am half way with you and half way of.. the fact that you are right on this one i am with, i think we should do this : Linkage instead of making a battleground, would have same training effect, and wouldn't effect pvp in other then a positive way (more would come to 0.0 to pvp with other players). secoundly we REALLY need to get ccp to realise that this "blob" creating warfare they are putting into the game mechanics are a really bad deal for the whole pvp aspect of the game: there was a post about "will the pvp leave eve etc" where some one replyid with a awsome and long reply on ways that needed changing to make pvp in eve more like the old days when people where roaming in small gangs (2-10 people) and gatecamps wasn't a instant death to jump into, and pos "build up forever and ever warfare" wasn't even in yet.. well find it and read it. is really good.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.01 19:34:00 - [80] Originally by: Blacktail Edited by: Blacktail on 01/08/2007 17:01:17 Originally by: Nur Vadenn stuff This is going to come out offensive, but your post irks me. It's riddled with fallacies. You want to solo pvp in your frigate or cruiser, but you're upset that you need more than that to kill a BS? It bothers you that if your skills are lower, then you need more numbers to compensate? I am not offended at all since this is simply a discussion. I also think I may not have explained what I ment clearly. I understand and have no issue with not being able to solo a battleship or an older player. That is not at issue. What I have a problem with is if I go out in my frigate, since that is what I can afford to loose, I will most likely not find a fight I even have a chance at. I don't see other frigates in low-sec, I see assault frigate, battlecruisers, cruisers, and battleships. Fine I suppose, but means I should probably stay home until I get those ships trained so no real PvP for me unless I just want to burn a frigate. Plus if people see me in my lone frigate they show up in a heavy assault cruiser or better, or 5 - 10 of them show up. Originally by: Blacktail Honestly, it sounds like you haven't even tried. I think you're just whining because it seems like it might be difficult. It really isn't. There are hundreds of skilled small PVP corporations that will take you if you just show the initiative. Take your frigate out and tackle for more skilled corpmates in small roaming gangs if you want. Fly an EWAR frigate, and you're instantly useful. Oh I've tried, but after the 3rd or 4th frigate I stopped and took a look at what I might be doing wrong. I also looked at my progress and was understandably disappointed at my lack of progress. It also became a question of if I was having fun turning into a fireball on a regular basis for other people. I don't mind loosing sometimes, but I would like the process to at least sometimes take longer than a minute or two. The bad attitude of most of the low-sec players I've encountered thus far has not enhanced the experience either. Originally by: Blacktail I could go to the newbie help channel and ask "does anyone want to come pvp with me?" get a few responses. Two cruisers and a BC is easily a large enough gang to go to low or zero security with. Heck, I've spent the last week wandering into 0.0 in a kestrel for kicks. It's not hard to do, and this myth that you're going to get ganked in the very first system needs to stop. Use the map, and think ahead, and it's very hard to get popped by a camp. Your experience is considerably different from mine in this regard. Trust is an endangered species in this game for some reason. As such no one groups with just anyone. You never know if they are going to watch your back of bury a hatchet in it. The same goes for joining a corporation. There is such a fear of alt spies that most are not recruiting. The ones that are leave much to be desired most of the time. As far as the issue of being ganked in the first system you enter low-security or 0.0 space. For the most part I haven't seen too much to discredit that contention. Yes maybe gates are clear for a few hours during the day when the campers are sleep or changing shifts, but by and large each time I enter low-sec there are several people waiting on the other side flashing red and with big guns. The suggestion of a battleground type environment were people can gain PvP experience matched against similarly geared opponents is not a bad one. Finding a balance for this in the world of EVE would be difficult, but I don't think impossible. Plus what harm could it cause? It would not effect the nature of PvP for those who are already out in low-sec would it?

Darkwingd Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2007.08.01 19:52:00 - [81] To those that say BGs in wow didn't kill world pvp, I say to you you were never involved in real world pvp then. Before BGs were introduced we had raids on cities and towns all the time, yes eveing going to far as to use lag as a tactic(backfired and we crashed the server, whoops). When BGs were intoduced all that stoped and pvp became another grind. Please don't let that happen to Eve.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.01 20:05:00 - [82] Originally by: Darkwingd To those that say BGs in wow didn't kill world pvp, I say to you you were never involved in real world pvp then. Before BGs were introduced we had raids on cities and towns all the time, yes eveing going to far as to use lag as a tactic(backfired and we crashed the server, whoops). When BGs were intoduced all that stoped and pvp became another grind. Please don't let that happen to Eve. Did you ever consider, as was said earlier in this thread, that world PvP died in WoW because the people given a choice preferred battlegrounds? As I recall there is nothing stopping world PvP from continuing except no one wants to do it anymore because it lacks merit. If EVE PvP is so strong people have nothing to fear from a battleground mechanic. After its introduction people would avoid it and simply go to low-sec and 0.0 as they do now invalidating the effort. On the other hand I think the root concern in this thread and others is that given an alternative to the current statis-quo people will choose the alternative in droves. I wonder what that would say about the current state of EVE PvP?
RedLion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.01 21:16:00 - [83] I would love some sort of call it "simulator" or what where people could practice PvP without actually losing something, except maybe some million ISK each hour for a fee to use this "simulator". - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 21:25:00 - [84] Edited by: cal nereus on 01/08/2007 21:29:01 Originally by: grimda Edited by: grimda on 01/08/2007 15:45:11 "I'm saying that couldn't work in EvE warfare - war isn't about equal numbers fighting equal numbers, its about winning, whatever and however you can." One would hope that a war is fought to achieve an objective not obtainable in peace. Military action is often called the last tool of diplomacy, using force to take what cannot be bargained for. . That mostly applied to real life in modern times. Eve is more like ancient times, when genocide was more common. IE: Rome annihilated Carthage. They weren't trying to force Carthage to change a policy, or do anything in particular. They just wanted to wipe them off the face of the planet. In EVE, it is somewhat similar. In addition to the simple fun of PvP, the goal of some wars is to "annihilate" the other side, but instead of it being via genocide, it is via convincing them to stay in empire or quit the game out of frustration. --- Grismar.net
Atama Cardel	Posted - 2007.08.01 22:07:00 - [85] Originally by: Sacul Originally by: The Blinded battlegrounds... like wow has... instanced areas that pl go to pvp CTF :p VTF what the hell is ctf?? omfg u wow ppl get away from here till u learn eve lingo pls .... DS help me what is CTF? Capture the flag
Blacktail Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.01 22:47:00 - [86] Originally by: Nur Vadenn stuff Well first thanks for being so civil back to me. Makes me regret my harsh tone quite a bit A few return comments: I'm really not shocked that you can't find many fights that you can do solo with your frigate. Facts are facts, and frigates just aren't exactly solo pwnmobiles by any stretch. I'd normally answer that problem by just saying find someone to group with (1 or 2 other players in frigates or cruisers would suffice), but since we're talking solo play I suppose that's beside the point. I guess the most logical option is to just put in the week of training (at most) that it takes to hop into a cruiser. Many of them are absolutely perfect for soloing in. As I mentioned before, I've been flying a kestrel around 0.0 for kicks. It can kill haulers, frigates, and very dumb interceptor pilots. Frigs can be nice pirate ships in that regard, but perhaps that's not what you're interested in. About being killed by gatecamps in low-sec: Simply put, if you're in a frigate, that shouldn't be happening to you. I've lost 2 ships of that size in low-sec ever. A destroyer (which it turned out, doesn't tank gate guns very well), and a Bantam (I let a friend try mining for a minute to get a feel for the game, and he got ganked). If there's a camp when you come through a gate, (which there usually isn't), simply find the nearest celestial object to your ship's nose that isn't a moon, and warp to 100km at it. You'll enter warp fast enough that 95% of enemies can't target you in time. Plus, why would they drop their sec status just to kill a frigate? On finding people to gang with: I sympathize about the lack of trust you find with people in EVE. I lamented that recently in a scam thread, that scammers and such were killing the sense of trust and mutual cooperation in the EVE community. It really is a shame. That being said, there are still a veritable ton of good corporations out there. I can only really speak from experience, so I'll put Eve University out there again (although you seem averse to their zerg-style tactics ). But with them or Agony, you'll at least learn the basics to make your solo excursions much less painful. Heck, Blackguard would probably take you if you applied to us. (I'd put in a good word for ya, too ). Again, don't know if pirating is your thing though. And finally, with regards to the PVP-battlegrounds idea: My other posts pretty much says all I have to say about it, but to reiterate, I don't like the idea because it simply gives PVE'ers absolutely no reason to leave empire. They would be able to get what they want without ever risking anything, which I believe is counter to the founding principles of the game. PVP in EVE isn't simply "lock on and press F1-F8". It's the entire process of knowing your area, your enemy, scouting, knowing when to fight and when to run, and fitting your ships with tact. It's chess, not the UFC. Getting blown up isn't the end of the world; they should take the 5 man gang that they would hypothetically bring to this arena, and instead use it to roam low sec or 0.0. You lose your frigate or cruiser? Well good news, the insurance should pretty much take care of the ship and the vanilla T1 modules that you should be using on it. Learn by doing. It's not even 1/10 as hard as people make it out to be.
Nur Vadenn Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.02 01:16:00 - [87] Originally by: Blacktail Originally by: Nur Vadenn stuff Well first thanks for being so civil back to me. Makes me regret my harsh tone quite a bit More and insightful stuff Civility is something that is needed more often on these forums. I am happy to give it. To further the conversation here: First, I look at the collection of insight and advice I've culled from the forums and other sources regarding EVE PvP. One of the commandments is not to fly what one cannot afford. So given my income at 3 months old in game I can't really afford to loose a whole lot very often. Insurance helps, but as so many are happy to point out loss in EVE is harsh even with the softeners in place. If, for the sake of conversation, we move to cruisers. There are some solid choices there based on the ship fittings forums and some simple math, but do they stand a chance in the rigors of low security life? Perhaps if skillfully piloted a cruiser could face off against an equal or better opponent. Of course that is all educated and informed theory. Nothing really factual until I take that ship out cruising low security space and encounter an advisory. Being someone who likes to be prepared I would much prefer to get the chance to see my chosen ship and fit in action first against fairly equal opponents before I am staring down the business end of a battlecruiser, heavy assault cruiser, or even an assault ship. As it stands there is no good way to get that experience. You going into a low security area is a crap shoot at best. You may find anything from near instant death on the blind alley side of a gate to nothing but empty space. Join a corporation/guild you say? They can show you the ropes and guide you toward PvP heaven/nirvana etc. Well here is the problem, I've noticed that during combat in EVE you get this adrenaline shot I would normally associate with a roller coaster. I'm still not used to my heart jumping when a flashing red line shows up abruptly on my hud. I gather it has something to do with the harsher penalty that is always incurred as a side effect of loss here. I cannot imagine a corporation simulating that... ever. I bet one main part of EVE PvP is getting the shakes to go away. If a game ever needed a way to ease into the icewater pool that is PvP, EVE is it. I am sure people are a bit shaken by the swim or drown approach to PvP here. Bottom line as it stands now I can completely understand a mission runner's logic. It is really very simple. Go into low sec and deal with swimming up stream with lead weights on my back in ice water or enjoy my online time and just forego all that PvP stuff? What is really in low security space for someone who is doing fine with missions anyway? More profit? Not from what I can see. Honestly all that is waiting is either a gate camp or an encounter with someone who for whatever reason looks at me as nothing more than content to be consumed. I have no problem kicking the shark in the teeth, just gimme someplace were I can make sure my hammer is heavy enough, my knife is sharp enough, my armor is tough enough, and if I go down it will be in a way that will give that shark pause in the future. PvP battlegrounds could easily be that preparatory place were ôcarebearsö learn they have claws and could use them.
Blacktail Caldari Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.02 02:01:00 - [88] Originally by: Nur Vadenn stuff I hear the test server is a great way to try out different ships and setups at virtually no cost to yourself. It might be exactly what you're looking for. To be honest, I've never actually tried it. (I'm more of a "shoot first, shoot some more, then wonder how you ended up back in station with an Ibis and a free gift of Tritanium" kind of guy). But that aside, I gotta tell ya, I love that adrenaline boost that you're describing. I'm an EVE PVP junkie, heh. But I think getting in with a more experienced group of players does a lot to help temper it. It really helps to have a calm, experienced player leading you, to keep you level-headed when all you want to do is start flying in circles and going fully automatic with your eyes closed. I think part of it's just a mental thing. That cold water analogy sounds great. Until you're able to just say "Screw it" and jump in headfirst, you'll always be holding yourself back. Like how sticking your toes into the cold water to test it accomplishes nothing except to make you more apprehensive of it. It's tough to fight when you're panicked and overthinking. I bet that's why a lot of PVE'ers have such a fearful image of life outside empire.
fathitman Gallente The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.08.02 02:17:00 - [89] Edited by: fathitman on 02/08/2007 02:17:48 ill keep this simple WOW Is for kids or not so dedicated players. Due to its basic nature and build. EVE Is for adults, due to its complexity. Also you need to be dedicated b/c by a pod loss you could loss 1, 2, 3 months of skill training. ----------------------------------------------- We Are Recruiting: Contact me In-Game
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 07:34:00 - [90] Originally by: Nur Vadenn Originally by: Blacktail Originally by: Nur Vadenn stuff Well first thanks for being so civil back to me. Makes me regret my harsh tone quite a bit More and insightful stuff Civility is something that is needed more often on these forums. I am happy to give it. Join a corporation/guild you say? They can show you the ropes and guide you toward PvP heaven/nirvana etc. Well here is the problem, I've noticed that during combat in EVE you get this adrenaline shot I would normally associate with a roller coaster. I'm still not used to my heart jumping when a flashing red line shows up abruptly on my hud. I gather it has something to do with the harsher penalty that is always incurred as a side effect of loss here. I cannot imagine a corporation simulating that... ever. I bet one main part of EVE PvP is getting the shakes to go away. If a game ever needed a way to ease into the icewater pool that is PvP, EVE is it. I am sure people are a bit shaken by the swim or drown approach to PvP here. No they can't simulate it, but they can mitigate it. A lot of corps and alliances will replace (or help replace) ships lost in PvP. Especially if you're flying in a tackler. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.02 08:34:00 - [91] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 02/08/2007 08:37:07 Originally by: fathitman Edited by: fathitman on 02/08/2007 02:17:48 ill keep this simple WOW Is for kids or not so dedicated players. Due to its basic nature and build. EVE Is for adults, due to its complexity. Also you need to be dedicated b/c by a pod loss you could loss 1, 2, 3 months of skill training. Pathetic... fanboi to its finest. Ok,a few facts... Quote: From the survey data, the average age of the WoW player is 28.3 (SD = 8.4). Kids, at 28 years old... ok, you fail this thread. Source : 5 minutes of google search. Linkage I'm sure you could find more accurate data by searching a bit more... Note : the eve wiki says that the Eve online community is 27 years old on average... Get the conclusion you want, I'll get mine... Wow players are more mature than Eve ones. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.02 08:37:00 - [92] "fanboi" the defense of an opposing fanboi you all get 3 LAME points to spend as you see fit, I hear george lucas has used kleenex on ebay! Real men fly Pink. I've been living in your cassette, It's the modern equivalent, singing up to a Capulet, on a balcony in
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.02 08:38:00 - [93] Originally by: Tortun Nahme "fanboi" the defense of an opposing fanboi you all get 3 LAME points to spend as you see fit, I hear george lucas has used kleenex on ebay! Learn to read the rest of the post, where I prove he's wrong. You fail too . -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.02 08:40:00 - [94] proof in point proving your own fanboism, need I explain it more simply for you? Real men fly Pink. I've been living in your cassette, It's the modern equivalent, singing up to a Capulet, on a balcony in
heheheh Singularity. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:09:00 - [95] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Tortun Nahme "fanboi" the defense of an opposing fanboi you all get 3 LAME points to spend as you see fit, I hear george lucas has used kleenex on ebay! Learn to read the rest of the post, where I prove he's wrong. You fail too . A link to some lousy site is not evidence. Like this
Sin Meng Gallente Helios Incorporated	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:10:00 - [96] Originally by: Agent Li Originally by: Sin Meng It did not kill it. It simply made the PvP experience more scripted and organized. Stop right there. The elegance and brilliance of Eve is that outside of NPCs, it's NOT scripted. You can do ANYTHING you want to, ANYTIME you want to do it. The very nature of Eve makes it really DIFFICULT to play as a loner - you have to have friends and they have to have friends - you're not going to be Mark the Merc Saves The Universe. All of this happens because it is NOT scripted. Please, go back to WoW now. Close your Eve account, send me your isk and stuff, and go play WoW. Please, go back to my post and read the rest. I believe you will find I was referring to the WoW pvp system and continued on to say that such a system would ruin the very essence of EVE that you are speaking of. I simply stated that such a system is more beneficial to a game like WoW while it is not for a game like EVE. Lay off the flame sparky. ------------------------- EVE is a sandbox with land mines, deal with it.
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:15:00 - [97] My fanboism ? I play eve because of lazors and spaceships. It's off-topic however... -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.02 09:21:00 - [98] Originally by: heheheh Originally by: Ares Lightfeather Originally by: Tortun Nahme "fanboi" the defense of an opposing fanboi you all get 3 LAME points to spend as you see fit, I hear george lucas has used kleenex on ebay! Learn to read the rest of the post, where I prove he's wrong. You fail too . A link to some lousy site is not evidence. Like this If you want more sites, it's easy to do. Type "average age of players in WoW" in google. You'll find others : http://askbobrankin.com/world_of_warcraft.html And daedalus is not "some lousy site". It has been surveying games for 8 years now... -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
DJ P	Posted - 2007.08.02 10:03:00 - [99] EVE is a PVP game from start to finish. PVP isn't just shoot the other guy and have a battle. PVP is the constant competition in politics, market, production. You don't have to shoot a single bullet to PVP. In the mean time BGs isn't something WoW invent. But exists years before WOW release. In DAOC.

Jacques Archambault Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.08.03 21:56:00 - [100] Thread cleaned. Please keep your replies on topic and in line with OPs question. -Jacques forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website!


Haas Tabris	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:44:00 - [101] Originally by: Banana Torres Edited by: Banana Torres on 01/08/2007 08:21:23 Well, firstly let me say I have never played WoW, so I could not go back to WoW. And it also means that I don't really know what I am talking about, but as this has never stopped anyone posting on theses forums before, I won't let it stop me now. hehehe, this made me laugh. thank you! serious, not trying to be sarcastic. I've played my fair share of WoW and EVE and the OP is right, world PVP died when they introduced the instanced PVP areas. So I don't think the EVE devs should go down that path. That, and the crafting and economic side of EVE is soooo much deeper and involved than WoW will ever be. But EVE could actually learn A LOT from WoW. The user interface in WoW is slick. It's polished, its flexible and it works. There are no pull down menus (they would laugh at how we launch drones in EVE). A character might have 20-30 combat abilities (think having 20-30 active modules fitted to your ship) that you can re-arrange on the UI AND create hotkeys for. It's really pretty sweet. Why I can't set a key to launch my drones is beyond me. WoW can also a lot more FUN than EVE. I hate to say that because I love the depth of EVE. There are no gate-camps in WoW. If you want some PVP (non-instanced) action, just go charging into enemy territory and you'll get it. It's that easy. You can do the same thing in EVE, but the local problem prevents any element of surprise. You have no chance to decloak behind someone and gank them. No chance. You get spotted in local several jumps away from enemy territory. What we so desperately NEED is to allow the raiders into enemy space undetected, let them launch their sneak attack, and THEN let the defenders rally their forces to fight them. That's how world PVP works in WoW, and it was a helluva lot of fun. The raiders do some damage, but eventually the defenders push them out. Everybody gets a chance to kill somebody and everybody has fun and nobody has to sit in a gatecamp. I really think all the devs should stop what they're doing and play WoW for a solid month. EVE would be a much better game for it.
Haas Tabris	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:30:00 - [102] ooo this is just too tempting NOT to bump. :-) "cry havoc and let slip the dogs of warcraft" lol
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:01:00 - [103] What EVE could adopt from WoW is storyline missions that actually makes some sense and leaves you with a feeling of accomplishment, not just having pulled the chore of doing dishes and taking out the trash, just as you did the day before or was it week, I forget... Also Known As
Migo Witatings	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:18:00 - [104] What eve could take from WOW is .... wait what??? Ive spent years avoiding games like WOW i like EVE jsut the way it is ... .AWSOME dont ever try to make eve like wow. EVE is the MMO sanctuary for "smart peaople"
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.10.18 01:59:00 - [105] EVE could take one thing and one thing only from WOW, and that's an interface that doesn't suck royal ass.
faxtarious Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:26:00 - [106] wtf's a BG ???
faxtarious Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:29:00 - [107] Originally by: Ilvan EVE could take one thing and one thing only from WOW, and that's an interface that doesn't suck royal ass. can someone forum pod this guy
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:32:00 - [108] Originally by: faxtarious Originally by: Ilvan EVE could take one thing and one thing only from WOW, and that's an interface that doesn't suck royal ass. can someone forum pod this guy Your words, they wound me so.
faxtarious Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:34:00 - [109] sorry if that sounded rude man...But you think that WoW's...I'm sorry to say, childish interface looks beter than eve's state of the art GUI ??? please explain your "point of view"
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.10.18 02:52:00 - [110] Originally by: faxtarious sorry if that sounded rude man...But you think that WoW's...I'm sorry to say, childish interface looks beter than eve's state of the art GUI ??? please explain your "point of view" 'State of the art GUI'? Are you ***ting me? Are we playing the same game? Does 'state of the art' mean 'let's not display useful information' or 'hey let's take up screen real estate with a lolhuge cap/shield/velocity display' or 'stupid glowing module buttons that show no time indicators and blend in with the hideously garish space backdrops'? How advanced is a UI that lags every time whenever you receive more than a few kilobytes? Every time a ship blows the UI chokes. Every time I open the market browsing tab the UI chokes. Oh, but we have window transparency. That's totally bleeding edge. WOW had a UI that is flexible, customizable, and could show every single piece of data you ever needed. EVE's UI is a cumbersome, sluggish, mouse-heavy piece of garbage in comparison. While there's certainly a lot of lameness in WOW's mass-market stylings, the UI is a goddamn golden pillar of design. Why do you think so many designers are copying the damn thing? Because it works. Another thing is total lack of keyboard utility. How come I can't launch/command drones with the keyboard? Christ, all I actually use the keyboard for is F1-F8 and CTRL. It's pathetic. Anyone familiar with a keyboard knows it's far superior to a mouse for command input, and if say otherwise you're a ***** or a liar. I just pray that Trinity II/III/whatever's new hardware accelerated graphics engine will fix the UI stutter, and maybe CCP will finally take the time to retool the one set of graphics that we have to look at for 99% of your EVE playing time. <brain melts>

Reem Fairchild Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:05:00 - [111] Originally by: Ilvan Are we playing the same game? Does 'state of the art' mean 'let's not display useful information' You must at least not be playing the game I play, cause the UI displays any and all useful information I need, and I find it highly customizable.
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:08:00 - [112] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Ilvan Are we playing the same game? Does 'state of the art' mean 'let's not display useful information' You must at least not be playing the game I play, cause the UI displays any and all useful information I need, and I find it highly customizable. You must be one of those people who does nothing but level 1 missions in a cruiser or something.
faxtarious Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:15:00 - [113] you do realise that in W*W you cast spells and slash bushes... humm don't need much brainstorming to come up with a gui for that... to properly play eve you need to be connected to alot of info...and it's a high tech space gendra...so the style of the GUI fits the them...what more did you want... Gui lagging..humm yeah..the game is database intensive...Hello...ANYTHING that mainly rely on databases "lag"...most of the time the query is small so you barely notice that lag..but other times...like when you opn something as BIG as maket the query request is sooo big that NO machine what so ever can do it fast enought that your pretty eyes won't see it. to sum hings up...don't play a game where you don't lik the GUI...
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:24:00 - [114] Edited by: Ilvan on 18/10/2007 03:25:02 Originally by: faxtarious you do realise that in W*W you cast spells and slash bushes... humm don't need much brainstorming to come up with a gui for that... to properly play eve you need to be connected to alot of info...and it's a high tech space gendra...so the style of the GUI fits the them...what more did you want... Gui lagging..humm yeah..the game is database intensive...Hello...ANYTHING that mainly rely on databases "lag"...most of the time the query is small so you barely notice that lag..but other times...like when you opn something as BIG as maket the query request is sooo big that NO machine what so ever can do it fast enought that your pretty eyes won't see it. to sum hings up...don't play a game where you don't lik the GUI... Except, you wonderfully obtuse little man, I love the game. Even the godawful UI isn't enough to make me quit. That doesn't mean it can't - or shouldn't - be changed. edit: and lawl at the censoring of 'WOW'. You must be one of those people who are so desperate to prove how HARDKOAR you are that you flail mindlessly at anything that even mentions the Game That Shall Not Be Named.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:28:00 - [115] The coherence level of the OP is poor, but it could just be this crazy font I'm using. The phrase "too little, too late" comes to mind, when reading such reactions as "PLEASE GOD/CCP DONT MAKE EVE LIKE WOW". EVE is already too much like WoW for comfort, and if you don't realize or agree with that, your standards have already been marred by the fact that changes have been long ongoing, and very subtle. Its still a good game, and at the moment, the best MMORPG. But its not nearly as dark and scary as they say it is. EVE has 200k subscribers because of agent missions in empire and thats it. It has nothing to do with the game's depth, community, or balance. People come to this game because of 'omg spaceships', but they stay because they have ample opportunity to work up and get all those spaceships without being molested around every corner. No teamwork required. I'm not sure on this but, doesn't WoW enforce some level of teamwork in the upper pve instances/raids? Or can you get to the top working solo there as well? Its kind of amusing and depressing at the same time. The most successful MMORPGs are singleplayer games in an online environment with tacked on fps/arena/ladder competition.
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:31:00 - [116] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal The coherence level of the OP is poor, but it could just be this crazy font I'm using. The phrase "too little, too late" comes to mind, when reading such reactions as "PLEASE GOD/CCP DONT MAKE EVE LIKE WOW". EVE is already too much like WoW for comfort, and if you don't realize or agree with that, your standards have already been marred by the fact that changes have been long ongoing, and very subtle. Its still a good game, and at the moment, the best MMORPG. But its not nearly as dark and scary as they say it is. EVE has 200k subscribers because of agent missions in empire and thats it. It has nothing to do with the game's depth, community, or balance. People come to this game because of 'omg spaceships', but they stay because they have ample opportunity to work up and get all those spaceships without being molested around every corner. No teamwork required. I'm not sure on this but, doesn't WoW enforce some level of teamwork in the upper pve instances/raids? Or can you get to the top working solo there as well? Its kind of amusing and depressing at the same time. The most successful MMORPGs are singleplayer games in an online environment with tacked on fps/arena/ladder competition. This man speaks the truth. Hilarious how the game has become carebear heaven but clueless little nublets like the guy a few posts up froth at the idea of a better UI.
Corinthias	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:34:00 - [117] Hrmm.. I thought the pvp championships did very well... were they not just like a BG in wow? Kind of like an arena match'n all. Seems many folks watched them and much fun was had. I guess there is no place in Eve for that kind of sillyness. Oh well, back to my beer.
R'olyat Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:49:00 - [118] Wow, just wow..... I don't think i've ever seen such hardcore fanboys. Most people who are talking about wow in this thread have no earthy idea what they are talking about, and it shows. ------------------------- I make sigs! Contact me ingame if you need one made.
gojwer	Posted - 2007.10.18 05:47:00 - [119] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Richard Aiel stuff You wanna know why they instanced PVP in WoW? In instanced PVP you can LIMIT the # of people based on what the server/node can actually HANDLE, so you don't have 200 people raiding Orgrimmar and suddenly the server crashes. With more subscribers come larger blobs, you got these 200-man blobs flying around, and when it takes 2 minutes to turn on a module, nobody is really PVP'ing. Even when you play a pure PVP game like BF2, the server has a certain # of slots based on bandwidth and CPU. I think WoW is an excellent game that can teach CCP a few lessons, such as good UI design, and snappy game performance, but ultimately it's a different animal. I would love to see what would happen if Blizzard applied themselves to dark gritty SciFi. 6 year olds would have titans and then bliz would be sued by millions of parents because their kids wake up screaming from a nightmare about having their T2 fitted ships blown up because someone wanted to kill them for the fun of it, the usual way griefing is. Also, if you dont believe there's griefing in Eve, search the net for tales of players taking hours of their time in a day to corpse camp people so that they cant run away. happens all the time in WoW. now consider that a person can actually loot you instead of just standing there over your pimp EQ corpse waiting to kill you again, and say theres no such thing as griefing in Eve.
Yann Xonogoth Gallente Tetrapharmacon Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.18 07:53:00 - [120] @OP:PvP and Ganking are two different concepts. In EVE just as in WoW, there is PvP and ganking, the second being lame, really lame. Prepuber teens usually like it thought

Ogron Amarr Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.18 08:01:00 - [121] Edited by: Ogron on 18/10/2007 08:02:03 Here's some truths. I am an Ex-WoW player of 3 years. Have 2 level 70 characters, several others above lvl 60, lots of shiny epics, seen lots of content, done the PvP thang on almost all classes, done arenas to a pretty high level. 1: Yes WoW instanced battlegrounds DID kill world PvP 2: Instanced battlegrounds made PvP an exercise in grinding honour for items, not for the thrill of PvP 3: No penalty for dying = no survival instinct. 4: WoW standard interface sucks nuts. 5: Being able to modify your interface and create macros opened up whole new avenues of advantages and cheating over PvE and PvP encounters. 6: WoW is a PvE game with some PvP tacked on 7: Eve is a PvP game with some PvE tacked on I came to Eve because it's NOT WoW. I would be severely dissapointed if they introduced something like this. The reason I like Eve's PvP is that even as a young character i can get in a frig with a scram/web/mwd and be useful in an engagement. Happy days. I can't imagine a situation in WoW where a lvl 20 character could help compete against lvl 70 players. Wow is MMORPG's Lite.. ------------------------------------------ Dapanman1 - YOUR SIG IS HUEG Plaetean - OMG it blocks out the sun!! Niffetin - Then we will post in the shade!
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.10.18 08:17:00 - [122] Welcome to eve. The place where people use NECRO thread in order to bash Wow some more. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
meateggsandowls	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:14:00 - [123] Originally by: Richard Aiel Edited by: Richard Aiel on 01/08/2007 03:30:59 Edited by: Richard Aiel on 01/08/2007 03:09:53 Edited by: Richard Aiel on 01/08/2007 03:07:25 If yer gonna post in THIS thread PLEASE keep it ON TOPIC The sheer amount of posts ive seen over the past few days saying that EVE should be ANYTHING like WoW is sheer stupidity. These people should be laughed right off the server. I for one came here to get away from games where everyone is the same (except for the s-hit you wear), and dying is an inconvience only due to the time it takes you to walk back to your corpse. Ill tell you what guys that are advocating the BG idea: BGS KILLED PVP (non BG "spontaneous" or "world") IN WOW They did. Oh I know ppl will say "What?? No, they made better PVP where lots of ppl can go just TO PVP." Thats true. They made places where ppl can go to PVP but what about outside the BGs? Once the BGs came out, world PVP dropped to almost 0. After the BGs came out, everyone went to them to PVP and essentially stopped PVPing outside of them. Do we want this for EVE? If we institute BGs for EVE everyone will gravitate to them to PVP, and noone will PVP outside them anymore, just like WoW. Don't worry it will never happen. Alliances are not being developed to have it all thrown away.
H4kz0rz Minmatar	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:27:00 - [124] This is EvE it was built to be harsh and costly when you die , You have to work for your stuff you also have to work hard to keep it. That being said it sure makes you think twice about taking that nice new battleship into PvP when you have only just managed to get the skills to fly it and the isk to buy it. I have seen way tomany peole take ships they can barley fly into battle to loose them then whine I want my ship and fittings back ...... Tell me this why should you get your ship and fittings back YOU yes YOU made the choice to take it into the fight you lost it you live with it. Yes its a MMO but its one with concenquences real life example comming up , you goto war and your tank gets blown up by whom your at war with do you a. loose that tank for ever b. petition and whine to your commander ( derrrrr ) c. Thank your lucky stars your still alive even though tankless ? Me im looking at a and c here get over it this is a game you loose stuff you dont get it back...... nuff said . Why do Minmatar look scary
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:37:00 - [125] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 18/10/2007 18:37:57 Well, i'm going to say something that people won't like, mostly because it's rather true: If you get down to it, EVE is NOT that different from WOW. Different rules, different ways, different world, but as MMOs go, quite the same. WOW/EVE comparison: Mining=mining. Quests=storylines. Grinding=missioning/whatnot. Auction house selling stuff= bigger market. Resistances=resistances. Gear/equipment=modules epic stuff=faction stuff. kids playing=kids playing adult players=adult players healers=logistics pets=drones die and loose gold/time=die and loose isk/time. List goes on Some things EVE does better, some WOW does better. It's just how MMOs are. Two. Different. Games. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:55:00 - [126] Come on, Richard Aiel, what is the harm to encourage combat between players by putting in arenas? If you are real pro-challenger, you would encourage arena style combat. There is nothing wrong with arena style combat. There will still be plenty of 0.0 combat because 0.0 is territorial. It isn't like 0.0 players would live in high secs because of arena combat zones. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Please Enter Password	Posted - 2007.10.18 18:57:00 - [127] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Come on, Richard Aiel, what is the harm to encourage combat between players by putting in arenas? If you are real pro-challenger, you would encourage arena style combat. There is nothing wrong with arena style combat. There will still be plenty of 0.0 combat because 0.0 is territorial. It isn't like 0.0 players would live in high secs because of arena combat zones. I actually think, since frigate/cruiser/battleship tournaments and such are held anyway, that this wouldn't break the game(so to speak) in any way. I'd even go as far as say that in such a harsh universe, some form of arena entertainment would be normal. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:05:00 - [128] /me winks at Sheriff Jones. You got it. /me points left and right first fingers at Sheriff Jones. Your comparison is quite accurate. WoW has consensual battlegrounds and they are fun. This game has non-consensual arenas and those griefers are wondering why there are no people in low-secs. It is not hard maths. I am actually surprised moaners could show nice pretty damage graphs but couldn't add up reasons why empire dwellers hate low secs or null secs. The non-consensual engagements are appalling to be honest and leave very bad taste after their visits into ganking hell. My 0.01 ISK. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
MOTOK0	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:07:00 - [129] Originally by: Richard Aiel BGS KILLED PVP (non BG "spontaneous" or "world") IN WOW Indeed. After they came in me and some friends got a premade together but rolling PUGs got boring fast and the vast majority of other premades started afk'ing out. Not to mention the waiting lines... Killed WoW for me and it would probably be the same here. Once people dont have to look for fights, random encounter pvp vanishs and all the unexpected, fun, could go either way, does he have friends, aha ganked, oh noes ganked moments vanish with it. Instanced or consensual or organised pvp or whatever you want to call it sucks. It has to be content driven to keep it fresh and all it achieves is showcasing the latest flaw in game mechanics and the most overpowered combos.
Mr Popadopolis Amarr Gladiators of Rage DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:22:00 - [130] I don't get it, why does everyone seem to instantly assume that organized PvP means no-loss instanced PvP? You guys are being amazingly close minded. All I want is a small circle of 0.0 system in empire, each with a ship size limit on their stargate. Essentially, you can outfit yourself a frigate and be guaranteed to only fight other frigates. That's all I ask for. You still lose the ship, but atleast you aren't going to run into some jerk in a battleship. It could be done so that when you jump, it drops you 50km off the gate, instead of 15. That way you are less likely to be instantly popped when you jump in. The mindless hate against WoW is one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen. 'DURR we r much smrtr in eve, only babiez play world of lamecraft hur hur hur. they die and just coem back, that is dum, they rnt h4rdc0re enough for our game'. Grow up people.

Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:26:00 - [131] Originally by: The Internetz Screw battle grounds, give us a race track to race our ships and then a betting stand so we can bet on the races. Yes, preferably with some sort of unique racing ship (I think one of the chronicles talks about an Amarr racing league) While I in no way support the idea of "battlegrounds" in EVE. A decent alternative would be some sort of permanent "alliance tournament" where there were traditional matches as well as 1 vs 1 matches. There could be a reward or it could just be for the point of being known as the best pvp'r on the server. I liked the point allotment system used for the Alliance tournament. I can't see why there would be any problem with this as it would just be the same as having the tournament more frequently and I've yet to see BOB, HUNN, or any of the other successful alliance tournament teams scaling back their regular pvp to train for the tournament or because the tournaments have somehow taken away the relevence of "regular pvp." Besides, as long as you can be richer, stronger, and more powerful by holding a larger portion of 0.0 (and having the resources to utilize that portion) there will always be traditional pvp in EVE (and lots of it) and if that was ever taken away, this game wouldn't last long. -- Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.10.18 19:28:00 - [132] Personally I never really played WoW, I did give the trial a go and downloaded and installed the client then saw the cartoony graphics and didn't get 5 minutes into the game before logging out never to return. Pretty much the same for any MMO for me to EVE is the only one that interests me. I'm not really involved in pvp but I'm not carebear either but instanced "battlegrounds" does sound a bit rubbish and not in keeping with EVE but if pvpers are so terrified that battlegrounds would kill EVEs pvp there are some serious considerations to be looked at a) What would make players abandon general world pvp in favour of "battlegrounds" lag? fed up of blobs? there must be something that would make it popular enough to kill general pvp. b) Would some type of perpetual tourney be so bad? Even if it was player run a monthly series of ladder 1v1 matches would be fairly popular I think but it would be better integrated into the game mechanics to remove all the problems of allegations of cheating or other kinds of player created shenanigans. I think any claims that it would kill general pvp are alarmist and sensationist /sig --->Enter at your own risk<---
Praesus Lecti Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.10.18 21:11:00 - [133] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Ilvan Are we playing the same game? Does 'state of the art' mean 'let's not display useful information' You must at least not be playing the game I play, cause the UI displays any and all useful information I need, and I find it highly customizable. Lets look at all the things you cannot customize in the EVE UI: Display of relevant text information 1. Combat logs display information in only ONE format of Date Stamp, Type (combat mostly), What weapon used, what I'm shooting, a descriptor of how well the weapon hit, the damage dealt. Why can't I just see numbers? Or rearrange the columns? 2. The ordering of that data defaults to appending the information at the bottom of the log in a window that doesn't, by default, move with the incoming data. After a few seconds, the information you want to see is off the bottom of the window! You have to manually change that each time. 3. Continued detrimental effects (webbed, scrambled, target painted, sensor damped, targeting disrupted) have extremely limited visual cues. You have no clue which ship is doing what and there is no text based updating beyond the initial activation. i.e. you only get 1 notice that you are warp scrambled even though the ship is continually using it's module on you. Your only clue is that if you try to warp, you get the flash of a text window on the screen that disappears in 5 seconds. 4. Limited customization of the UI with regard to window placement. The main HUD is glued to the center bottom. The overview cannot actually reach the true edge of the screen. Chat windows have artificial horizontal/vertical minimums below which you cannot move a window. The "location information box" that shows your current system is permanently glued to the upper left of your screen. Zero ability to disassociate portions of the UI for better placement (i.e. the modules are stuck to the center "health" display. 5. ZERO ability to change fonts. 6. ZERO ability to set display preferences permanantly. I do not need to see the stupid thumbnails of every item I come across in a can or wreck because I know how to ******* read. List mode is fine for me. 7. Significant lack of mapping keyboard commands for basic functions. Shall I go on? The EVE UI is an archaic pile of trash, poorly conceived, poorly coded and hopelessly ineffective.
Rabbitual Ferrier	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:01:00 - [134] I'm all for Battlegrounds, just not the instanced type, the factional warfare type, where different groups and factions contest the zone in open conflict with general low-sec rules... Amarr vs Matari hot zones, where being a neutral could be enough to get you podded... Nothing wrong with that. But areas and ****, well thats just a bit, well boring. This instancing thing, it'll never catch on.
Snake Jankins Minmatar German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.18 23:58:00 - [135] Edited by: Snake Jankins on 19/10/2007 00:16:23 Originally by: Paulo Damarr a) What would make players abandon general world pvp in favour of "battlegrounds" lag? fed up of blobs? there must be something that would make it popular enough to kill general pvp. Guess in WoW it were the pvp item rewards. Don't know, I don't play mmorpgs to play capture-the-flag matches, but for the immersion, rpg stuff, pvp that has an impact, because the world is persistant and stories that write itself this way. I like politics and conflict. In WoW I experienced battlegrounds as grind and found them repetitive and boring. As an alliance player in WoW, I preferred things like sneaking with my guild mates on a zeppelin, fly into horde territory and start to kill there near a town. After some time there was lots of action all over the place and you were chased by huge numbers. It was quite fun. In Neocron we usually did the same. Go somewhere, make trouble, start to kill people and suddenly the whole area burns and more and more enemies arrive. At some point you make it home or just die. Those are the mini-games that I prefer over organized match pvp anytime. edit: I liked CTF in quake-2 though, but well, shooter. ___________ I've never been so serious as I am now. No, really.
Esmenet	Posted - 2007.10.19 00:34:00 - [136] Originally by: Praesus Lecti Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Ilvan Are we playing the same game? Does 'state of the art' mean 'let's not display useful information' You must at least not be playing the game I play, cause the UI displays any and all useful information I need, and I find it highly customizable. Lets look at all the things you cannot customize in the EVE UI: Display of relevant text information 1. Combat logs display information in only ONE format of Date Stamp, Type (combat mostly), What weapon used, what I'm shooting, a descriptor of how well the weapon hit, the damage dealt. Why can't I just see numbers? Or rearrange the columns? 2. The ordering of that data defaults to appending the information at the bottom of the log in a window that doesn't, by default, move with the incoming data. After a few seconds, the information you want to see is off the bottom of the window! You have to manually change that each time. 3. Continued detrimental effects (webbed, scrambled, target painted, sensor damped, targeting disrupted) have extremely limited visual cues. You have no clue which ship is doing what and there is no text based updating beyond the initial activation. i.e. you only get 1 notice that you are warp scrambled even though the ship is continually using it's module on you. Your only clue is that if you try to warp, you get the flash of a text window on the screen that disappears in 5 seconds. 4. Limited customization of the UI with regard to window placement. The main HUD is glued to the center bottom. The overview cannot actually reach the true edge of the screen. Chat windows have artificial horizontal/vertical minimums below which you cannot move a window. The "location information box" that shows your current system is permanently glued to the upper left of your screen. Zero ability to disassociate portions of the UI for better placement (i.e. the modules are stuck to the center "health" display. 5. ZERO ability to change fonts. 6. ZERO ability to set display preferences permanantly. I do not need to see the stupid thumbnails of every item I come across in a can or wreck because I know how to ******* read. List mode is fine for me. 7. Significant lack of mapping keyboard commands for basic functions. Shall I go on? The EVE UI is an archaic pile of trash, poorly conceived, poorly coded and hopelessly ineffective. Yes the customizable UI is the one good thing i would bring from wow to eve. Though i would limit the possibilities so we dont have the level of automatisation you could get in some wow-addons.
Naylon	Posted - 2007.10.20 01:30:00 - [137] Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we have battlegrounds already in the form of the test server?


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