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Captain Powers	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:38:00 - [1] I was talking with some friends on campus of a major school and I was asked what games I played. I told them what game I played and two of them chimed in, "Oh, you play Eve Sewers Online". Basically, lots of people have heard about the game and it's surprising how unfavorable the word was. I am stating this to help inform CCP that they are getting a bad description on the street of a major portion of their possible market player base. I already know that Trolls and Fan-bots will flame this so don't waste the bandwidth. I want to see this game improve, not worsen as the current road is. I'm not the proof, it's court of opinion that counts often. Word is spreading and I just sit back and laugh. Features are being removed, players that trolls and fan-bots are being like ****s in their blind support of CCP. Reminds me of blind supporters of Microsoft or Linux. I am starting equate Eve to Runescape. True proof that a game doesn't have to be good to have a growing player base. I wish I could find the exact Benjamin Franklin that went something like...Your worse critic is your best friend for they will keep you honest... That's why I'm posting.
Zeknichov Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:43:00 - [2] Although I agree in general from what I've seen EVE has a bad rep... "Eve SEWERS Online." Forgive my ignorance but what exactly were they trying to get at? My friends dubbed the name evesaver online.
largewhereitcounts	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:45:00 - [3] Can you recount the rest of the conversation? Otherwise you are just giving us YOUR opinion.
Callthetruth Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:50:00 - [4] aye subscriber numbers have levelled off their come back email campaign has brought a lot of players back - same issues remain most palyers are calderi and want missionns and of course motsu and jita are laggy and then they get annoyed and quit
The Pointless Gallente Plastic Toys	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:51:00 - [5] I take it your friends play a certain other game... with elves? ----------------------------------------------- "Breaking News! The Pointless hates GIFs!"
Captain Powers	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:54:00 - [6] Actually, they seem to play with...a ring.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Captain Powers Stuff Did you or your friends have any specific criticisms or was it just along the lines of "this game sucks"? In what way or ways was their impression unfavourable? How is it getting worse? Please tick all that apply: [ ]Dev Corruption [ ]BoB [ ]Goons [ ]Forum Warriors [ ]Forum Alts () [ ]Heat [ ]Lag [ ]The Community [ ] Insert your customised criticism here Originally by: RedFall How dare you try to argue my point with your so called "evidence". I don't need any, I have truthiness on my side.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.01 13:04:00 - [8] I think your critique is a bit off. Eve isnt meant to be a game where everybody gets along and go dancing in the moonlight. Its meant to be unforgiving and difficult. A game like that brings out both the best and the worst in people. I dont have a problem with anybody. Maybe your friends acted like idiots and got disliked by people. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Mallikan Gallente Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:02:00 - [9] "EVE Sewers Online" ? Sounds like your friends put a LOT of thought into that one.. You ever think that players of other MMO's are elitists just like (most) the players of EVE? It's not so much EVE getting bad rep as it is the reverse of us saying "Go play WoW and come back when you're an adult." Think I'm wrong? Find anyone that plays a different MMO and question them about one they don't play. If it's not "I haven't played it" it's "I heard it sucked." --- I Support The NOS Nerf! If anything just to make you mad. Proud Member of FATAL Alliance
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:07:00 - [10] I have taken some time off EVE in the past to play different MMO's or to go back to the old ones I used to play, and in general, people either have never heard of EVE, or they have heard bad things about it. The #1 thing I ran into was people whos only contact with the game was through the various scandals concerning Dev corruption. After that, the people who had heard of it almost always said "isn't that a game with full PvP everywhere? That is too hardcore for me." (or something along those lines.) I do have to agree tho, from personal experience, EVE has a bad image in the mmo world. -=^=-
Steini OFSI Gallente Minigame	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:20:00 - [11] I can't seem to drag my friends to play this game, why? Because they start so way off from me skillwise that they feel powerless and don't like mining while they're training up to afterburner, MWD, web yada yada something I did when it released but I would quit the game for if I had to start training that all again. And I got to agree to a certain point, the specilization to get to a cool ship they want to fly (let's assume assault frigate and t2 weapons) is ridiculous, I feel that a new account paid for should start with 1 mill sp's allocatable to certain skills (so you couldn't go straight for battleship perhaps but close to a cruiser or hauler and guns/missiles or what fancies you). 2 cents
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Steini OFSI I can't seem to drag my friends to play this game, why? Because they start so way off from me skillwise that they feel powerless and don't like mining while they're training up to afterburner, MWD, web yada yada something I did when it released but I would quit the game for if I had to start training that all again. And I got to agree to a certain point, the specilization to get to a cool ship they want to fly (let's assume assault frigate and t2 weapons) is ridiculous, I feel that a new account paid for should start with 1 mill sp's allocatable to certain skills (so you couldn't go straight for battleship perhaps but close to a cruiser or hauler and guns/missiles or what fancies you). 2 cents Lol you must live in the stone age. CCP already implemented a change where everyone starts with at least 800k sp.
Steini OFSI Gallente Minigame	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: Steini OFSI I can't seem to drag my friends to play this game, why? Because they start so way off from me skillwise that they feel powerless and don't like mining while they're training up to afterburner, MWD, web yada yada something I did when it released but I would quit the game for if I had to start training that all again. And I got to agree to a certain point, the specilization to get to a cool ship they want to fly (let's assume assault frigate and t2 weapons) is ridiculous, I feel that a new account paid for should start with 1 mill sp's allocatable to certain skills (so you couldn't go straight for battleship perhaps but close to a cruiser or hauler and guns/missiles or what fancies you). 2 cents Lol you must live in the stone age. CCP already implemented a change where everyone starts with at least 800k sp. Yes I live in the stone age (or had no clue since I reactivated a month ago), but that's cool, time to try to drag them out of wow
ApaKaka Lone Starr Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:34:00 - [14] I never saw any sewers in Eve, but it would be cool. The pods have to be emptied sometime, I guess. As for impresssions of the game, most people who I've talked to that have heard about it seem to be under the impression that you can 'lose everything'. That players go around frolicking wildly with their guns and that you're bound to lose all your efforts or have them stolen from you. But yeah, for the general WoWie I guess losing their guy with all it's epic eq worn when they die would be like losing -everything-, so I can see where they're coming from.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:39:00 - [15] I've experienced exactly what the op is talking about. Was chatting to some guildies the other day about my new addiction. The first thing one of them said: "You're playing eve? Why would you play a game where the dev's are allowed to cheat?", the second thing he said "Don't the owners allow you to buy gold for cash in that game?" As far as online reputation goes, eve's is worse than mud among the general community. CCP might one day be able to get over its shady history, but I don't see it happening any time soon.
Malcanis High4Life Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Steini OFSI I can't seem to drag my friends to play this game, why? Because they start so way off from me skillwise that they feel powerless and don't like mining while they're training up to afterburner, MWD, web yada yada something I did when it released but I would quit the game for if I had to start training that all again. And I got to agree to a certain point, the specilization to get to a cool ship they want to fly (let's assume assault frigate and t2 weapons) is ridiculous, I feel that a new account paid for should start with 1 mill sp's allocatable to certain skills (so you couldn't go straight for battleship perhaps but close to a cruiser or hauler and guns/missiles or what fancies you). 2 cents You can start a minmatar character with Nav 5, AB 4, Frigate 5 and some gunnery. They can be tackling (and tackling quite well) within a day or two with those skills. but doesn't your objection apply much less to EvE than to other MMOs? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:48:00 - [17] Quote: but doesn't your objection apply much less to EvE than to other MMOs? Well, this is just my view, but I'd dare say it applies far moreso to eve than any other game. In any other game, I can play and get more powerful- if I put 12 hours in in a single day I'll be 4x as far along as someone who spent 3. In eve, it isn't like that. If I want to fly x ship, it'll take y weeks and there's not a damn thing I can do to change it. Leads to a lot more playing fps' while you're waiting for a certain skill to train
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Racketeers	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:48:00 - [18] All I know is that this game is not for the "I want to kick ass and take names now!" crowd.
maria stallion Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.01 14:55:00 - [19] I thoughed eve-online was known as eve-offline?
Lewis Breaker	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:03:00 - [20] You must admit eve is kinda boring, to the point where i can read a book and rat in 0.0 at the same time. 95% of the time is spent warping, 5% of my time is taken up with pirating and ratting or running the most boring missions. now that i have loads of isk i dont know what to do anymore. The game has no goals to aim towards. It needs something to make you want to play. ok u train your skills, get the new ship and mods go ganking, once u done that then what do u do? I am finding this game very boring at the moment and a few days ago I killed a hyperion and made over 1 billion isk so i should have a major incentive to be hyped and playing all the time, but it just isnt like that. Mining sucks i will never ever mine, Ratting is just mining but with moving targets. PVP is fun i guess but its the same most of the time warp scram gank gang gatecamp. so basically im getting bored of eve big time, and i have only restarted playing this a month ago. I think they need to do something to make it more exciting
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Billy Sastard I have taken some time off EVE in the past to play different MMO's or to go back to the old ones I used to play, and in general, people either have never heard of EVE, or they have heard bad things about it. The #1 thing I ran into was people whos only contact with the game was through the various scandals concerning Dev corruption. After that, the people who had heard of it almost always said "isn't that a game with full PvP everywhere? That is too hardcore for me." (or something along those lines.) I do have to agree tho, from personal experience, EVE has a bad image in the mmo world. Well, you can blame all that on ***** Alliance. There was ONE instance of ONE dev cheating and this certian alliance flips out and if they lag in a system all of a sudden its time to threadnaught and go running off to spread lies and slander everywhere they can. Ive said ti before, and I will say it again, every game would be better off without ****. And you all know who I am talking about. You can buy gold for cash in every mmo, at least in eve your mainly dealing with other players, not isk farmers (most of the GTC sales are player to player). ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
heheheh Singularity. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:08:00 - [22] tbh with people i know, the ones that dont like it, A, Cant get their head around it B, Cant take getting blown up and being looted.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:12:00 - [23] I lack the context to properly judge. D: What do Sewers have to do with anything? --- Grismar.net
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:13:00 - [24] Quote: Well, you can blame all that on ******* Alliance. There was ONE instance of ONE dev cheating and this certian alliance That's just it though- that one instance, not the second one, was enough to do it, the goon's attempt at a second just rubbed salt in the wound. Eve hasn't just been seen like this for a month or so, the original t20 incident, combined with the fact he wasn't fired was all it took.
Zosimos Sabina Tritanium Workers Union Kinetic Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:13:00 - [25] No, my friends won't play this game because he said it devolved into Space Truckers Online and it was too hard for noobs to rack up enough sp to be pvp competitive. He said his idea of fun was not being somebody's disposable t1 tackler until he had 12 million sp, nearly 9 months later. He also said that the interface sucked and he absolutely hated having to log in every 4 hours to change skills without a queue. And in way, I agree with him on all his points. The difference between me and him is that I think EVE is still worth paying for. ------------------------------------------------ »\(¦_o)/»
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Gojyu Quote: Well, you can blame all that on ******* Alliance. There was ONE instance of ONE dev cheating and this certian alliance That's just it though- that one instance, not the second one, was enough to do it, the goon's attempt at a second just rubbed salt in the wound. Eve hasn't just been seen like this for a month or so, the original t20 incident, combined with the fact he wasn't fired was all it took. Well thats because the people that wrote all the stories are goonies, and they failed to mention the fact that he was punished for it, while the CEO was away which is why he wasnt fired. And no, if you ask someone about eve, and they say devs cheat, they are ready to rattle 3-4 instances off, not just one. Why? Because goonies decided to publish all the half truths and incomplete stories everywhere, and they weren't responsible enough to correct the stories later. You can blame CCP all you want for their image, they had a dev cheat, which will tarnish it, but the majority of the bad press surrounding CCP is not their fault, its goonswarms. ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:19:00 - [27] Evil Online
galadran Caldari Shadowed Souls	Posted - 2007.08.01 15:29:00 - [28] In the last year i've brought 3 people into EVE. None of them are hardcore or play more than an hour a day. When a a close friend mentioned they were trying out LOTRO my 3 friends agreed to try it as well. I already had and left. 3 hours into there first play they aggreed to come back to EVE. Once you can get people playing EVE the loyalty is very strong. Low turnover rate > large #s
Citizen 46Z	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:40:00 - [29] Like a dev or gm has never cheated in any other mmo or is not currently doing so, how naive....
RipleyII	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:09:00 - [30] I just returned to eve due to their email trial dealie, and I can see, even though some features have been improved, that it is still, and maybe moreso, geared toward the long time player. Newbies are not given any assistance, and the learning curve is still extreme. I find it interesting that when anyone says this, others chime to exhort CCP against "dumbing the game down". Since when is making something accessible equated with making it dumb. Now THAT is dumb. It is a very frustrating game because you can lose your ship so easily, and most ships cost millions of isk. Difficult for a noob to get in the first place, and very difficult to get back. And yes, i consider myself a noob because I ahd to start with nothing but a covetor. Thank goodness someone loaned me so isk, or I could do nothing. CCP reinstated me without even a teeny noobie ship. But the thing I find most distressing is the animus and constant antipathy from other players...the lying, scamming, name calling ,sarcasm, well it nver ends. Try asking a question on the help channel when the good old boys are having a discussion....mockery abounds. no fun being mocked when you're really trying to get information on something. I asked a question about gate camping npcs last week, and everyone just thought that was hilarious and gave me a very hard time over it. Hey, I jumpted into freulgar and three rats were camped at the gate. Not seen that very often. I merely asked it that was now common in low sec space. Call me stupid..yes yes i know you will, boys. Anyway, in looking at replies from gms, it seems they adopt that line as well. No help there. Probably won't stay too long this time.... I'll say it for you (good riddance) And I know now all you eve denizens are gonna jump me for what I've said. Have at it.
Alis Aquilae	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:18:00 - [31] Originally by: Gojyu I've experienced exactly what the op is talking about. Was chatting to some guildies the other day about my new addiction. The first thing one of them said: "You're playing eve? Why would you play a game where the dev's are allowed to cheat?", the second thing he said "Don't the owners allow you to buy gold for cash in that game?" As far as online reputation goes, eve's is worse than mud among the general community. CCP might one day be able to get over its shady history, but I don't see it happening any time soon. You are not keeping in mind that mud > general MMO community. EVE does not need a massive influx of WoW-ites. The type of people that are going to be long-term EVE subscribers are most likely a bit more patient and investigative then a typical casual MMO player considering this games depth.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:35:00 - [32] Originally by: RipleyII I just returned to eve due to their email trial dealie, and I can see, even though some features have been improved, that it is still, and maybe moreso, geared toward the long time player. Newbies are not given any assistance, and the learning curve is still extreme. I find it interesting that when anyone says this, others chime to exhort CCP against "dumbing the game down". Since when is making something accessible equated with making it dumb. Now THAT is dumb. It is a very frustrating game because you can lose your ship so easily, and most ships cost millions of isk. Difficult for a noob to get in the first place, and very difficult to get back. And yes, i consider myself a noob because I ahd to start with nothing but a covetor. Thank goodness someone loaned me so isk, or I could do nothing. CCP reinstated me without even a teeny noobie ship. But the thing I find most distressing is the animus and constant antipathy from other players...the lying, scamming, name calling ,sarcasm, well it nver ends. Try asking a question on the help channel when the good old boys are having a discussion....mockery abounds. no fun being mocked when you're really trying to get information on something. I asked a question about gate camping npcs last week, and everyone just thought that was hilarious and gave me a very hard time over it. Hey, I jumpted into freulgar and three rats were camped at the gate. Not seen that very often. I merely asked it that was now common in low sec space. Call me stupid..yes yes i know you will, boys. Anyway, in looking at replies from gms, it seems they adopt that line as well. No help there. Probably won't stay too long this time.... I'll say it for you (good riddance) And I know now all you eve denizens are gonna jump me for what I've said. Have at it. Nah, I'm not gonna attack you. In many respects you are correct. EVE can be a really hard game to get into. The learning curve is really steep, and yes, some of the older players can be real jerks. However, don't let that scare you off. As you yourself have evidenced, there are nice players in the game. For example, the guy that gave you enough ISK for a Covetor. That's not a cheap ship, and you got it for nothing. Something like that is a HUGE boost to any player, particularly if they have the skills needed to use a ship such as a covetor. I would recommend finding that person again and seeing if their corp is looking for new members. If not, then cast around for a freindly corp that is looking for new members. I know that OCFF is always looking for new people, and we prefer to take a laid-back approach to the game in that we demand very little from our members other than they contribute as much as they are comfortable with to corp events such as mining and PVP ops. However, this isn't a corp recruiting thread, so I'll hold off on the corp zeal. But seriously, there are plenty of players that are willing and able to help new players, as long as the people they are helping are appreciative.
PathetiQ Gallente The Rat Pack	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:40:00 - [33] just bring 2 of my friend in EvE one didnt even finish its 14days trial... Was too long to learn, he said damn AWSD cant control my ship in space... (lol) The other one is totally addicted to EvV with is girlfriend too! :P
RipleyII	Posted - 2007.08.01 17:47:00 - [34] Just fyi, i already had the covetor...it was the only ship i had left having given all my other ships, isk and stuff to my corp when i left. They would'nt give me back any of the ships or gear, but a couple members and my brother! gave me some isk so I could buy back the stuff. Since the amount they gave me was woefully short of what I needed, I asked for my Raven back. Trying now to do that, but only able to get a caracal and badger to haul. The corp requires a heavy isk donation every month, so most of my mining ratting etc, has gone to them. If only I could get my Raven. Don't have enough to buy that. Something seems askew. Anyway, I'll stop whining now. It's my own fault for divesting when I left.
Guilliman R Gallente PRO Space Hunters Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.08.01 18:02:00 - [35] ripply do yourself a favour, move your assets away and leave the corp. Thats sounds ** stupid to demand heavy donations from the corp members every month. If the corp needs cash, the corp officers/CEO should organize mining ops or rat ops or mission ops, where for a few hours in grp all thats made goes to the corp. A few months back I was in a 0.0 corp, part of a fairly big allience (this was on my 1st char). And every 2-3weeks or so we dedicated 3-4h mining ops. It wasn't mandetory and thus fully free will based. We made more then enough to keep pos running and suply the protecting fleet with new ship and ammo on dayly basis. If the corp demands so much money from you it doesnt enable you to have enough for yourself, then either tell em you dont want to pay or just leave and find a better more hospitable corp. Greedy s like that ** me off really. ---sig--- Carebear for life (unless I am in the advantage and have 99% chance of winning(, hey 1% chance to lose, thats risk right, good!)!
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Combined Planetary Union	Posted - 2007.08.01 18:15:00 - [36] I agree with Guilliman R. And not just because he's such a handsome fellow. A Corp should never ever demand heavy dues from it's members. Period. I would strongly recommend taking your covetor and getting the heck out of that corp and joining another. I mean, my corp does ask that we contribute, but only as much as we are comfortable with, so that only the really wealthy members pay any serious amount, and even then only what they feel they can afford. If the corp really needs money or mats we just go do a mining op or share a few level 4 missions. In fact, the only time I have ever been asked for money was when one of our members bought a new Charon to help move corp stuff. He really stretched himself to get it so he could help the corp, and then as he was coming to meet us he got caught by lowsec pirates and lost the ship. It really was the corps fault for not helping him protect it, so we all chipped in and bought him another one. But even then, donations were entirely voluntary. Leave that corp and find another. You'll be MUCH happier in the long run.
Guilliman R Gallente PRO Space Hunters Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.08.01 18:28:00 - [37] Ty, you're handsom too ---sig--- Carebear for life (unless I am in the advantage and have 99% chance of winning(, hey 1% chance to lose, thats risk right, good!)!
Drizit Amarr Lonely out here Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 18:51:00 - [38] I've introduced 12 people to this game, all 25 and over and out of that, 2 remain and one of them only logs on to change skills occasionally, (hasn't been o/l in the last month or more). The other is an ex eq epic player who got bored with no more advancement. The biggest reason for quitting was highsec griefing. Be it suicide ganking just for the hell of it, ore theft by vastly more skilled players who don't really need the isk, 100 v 5 wardecs on noob corps by high skilled players or theft of end mission keys for noob training missions, they all contribute to players leaving the game. This isn't a case of wanting a safe place but more inability to advance due to some e-peen stroking nerds who wouldn't last 5 seconds in lowsec against real players. These are the players that are taking away CCP's revenue by making it far too difficult for new players to advance given their limited skills. Like it or not, they are griefing. Call it what you will but when a highly skilled player picks on a noob, they know there will be no contest because if the noob fires on them, they will just blow the noob away with no effort at all. That is the act of griefing, simply using your uber (compared to a noob) capabilities with the sole intention of making a new players life so difficult that they quit playing. --
Cipher7 OldBastardsPub SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 23:27:00 - [39] I think in many ways the culture of the game is a shock to new players. The culture of LCS (lying cheating stealing) is so prevalent that its easy to despair. First thing to realize is, YOU don't have to live that way. I don't and I'm fine. There are plenty of people out there who are honest and brook no BS from anybody. Thieves, scammers, pirates etc serve an important purpose. They give you targets that you can easily hunt, kill, pod and loot without feeling a shred of pity. God put bad people on this Earth to give the good people lots of targets to waste. Because fighting is fun, and its even more fun when you make someone scream who deserves to scream. When they fry a murderer on the electric chair, a cheer goes up from Austin to San Anton, everybody breaks out the grill and calls their friends for a night of beer and kebabs. If they put executions on Pay-Per-View I'd buy a season pass. If that all makes sense to you then you understand why I love Eve.
Kalahari Wayrest	Posted - 2007.08.01 23:35:00 - [40] evesaver online, eve offline, crime online...all better than eve sewers online. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean, it's just weak I mean, you could put that in anything and it makes as much sense. World of Warcraft Sewers Online? Lord of the Rings Sewers Online? What? __________________________ Indulge Me Consider Yourself Indulged - Immy ♥ Wow immy scored - Xorus
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 23:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Alis Aquilae Originally by: Gojyu I've experienced exactly what the op is talking about. Was chatting to some guildies the other day about my new addiction. The first thing one of them said: "You're playing eve? Why would you play a game where the dev's are allowed to cheat?", the second thing he said "Don't the owners allow you to buy gold for cash in that game?" As far as online reputation goes, eve's is worse than mud among the general community. CCP might one day be able to get over its shady history, but I don't see it happening any time soon. You are not keeping in mind that mud > general MMO community. EVE does not need a massive influx of WoW-ites. The type of people that are going to be long-term EVE subscribers are most likely a bit more patient and investigative then a typical casual MMO player considering this games depth. .... Lol. If you think this game has more depth to it and is less casual than the wow endgame, you've obviously never passed level 10 in that game. For all our posturing, once you've played eve for a week it's the simplest game around
Drykor Minmatar Warriors of the Einherjar Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.08.02 00:03:00 - [42] Originally by: Gojyu .... Lol. If you think this game has more depth to it and is less casual than the wow endgame, you've obviously never passed level 10 in that game. For all our posturing, once you've played eve for a week it's the simplest game around Err, I don't think you fully grasp what's going on in Eve just yet. How can you compare mindless raiding to the politics and economics in Eve?
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 00:08:00 - [43] Edited by: Gojyu on 02/08/2007 00:08:56 Originally by: Drykor Originally by: Gojyu .... Lol. If you think this game has more depth to it and is less casual than the wow endgame, you've obviously never passed level 10 in that game. For all our posturing, once you've played eve for a week it's the simplest game around Err, I don't think you fully grasp what's going on in Eve just yet. How can you compare mindless raiding to the politics and economics in Eve? I'll grant that the politics and economics is a fair chunk more complicated than in any other mmog. I was more discussing the more general, day to day gameplay such as mission running and pvp. However, the only people who generally think raiding is mindless is the people who can't do it or quit raiding due to frustration. But this is off-topic, so it's the last post I'll make on the subject, just couldn't let that post slide, more members of the community need it beaten into them that this game isn't the hardcore nirvana they think it is.
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.08.02 03:04:00 - [44] Originally by: Steini OFSI Yes I live in the stone age (or had no clue since I reactivated a month ago), but that's cool, time to try to drag them out of wow Funnily enough I was just hanging out in low sec the other day minding my own business, spinning my ship in the station (actually, I was sorting through all my loot ) when some noob starting asking for help to kill some belt rats, in local. From memory he was less than a month old (might have been a bit more but not much) Anyway, all sounded a bit suspicious but I thought "what the hell" and jumped into a cheap (mostly) T1 fitted Rupture and went to help. So, I undocked and scanned the system. Fancy that, he's in a Vengeance assault frigate and I laughed at him in local for not being able to kill a couple of cruisers and warped to the belt. We killed the rats and then he locked me, tried to warp away but he had me scrammed already so I turned my guns, web, NOS, drones and scram on him as the rest of his gang jumped into the system and came to help him. Rest of the gang was 2 T1 frigs and Thorax flown by a much older player with excellent drone skills who wtfpwned my Rupture reasonably quickly but not before I killed the Vengeance and a Punisher . I was quite pleased with myself being mostly a carebear and all. The kill mails revealed that both the AF and the frigate were almost completely T2 fitted. Anyway, the point of my rambling is that you can now, with the new starting skills, be in quite a powerful ship with decent mods in a very short space of time.
BubbaZanetti	Posted - 2007.08.02 04:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Gojyu I'll grant that the politics and economics is a fair chunk more complicated than in any other mmog. I was more discussing the more general, day to day gameplay such as mission running and pvp. However, the only people who generally think raiding is mindless is the people who can't do it or quit raiding due to frustration. But this is off-topic, so it's the last post I'll make on the subject, just couldn't let that post slide, more members of the community need it beaten into them that this game isn't the hardcore nirvana they think it is. So, learning the raid script is hardcore? Figuring out that you have to do A, then B, then C is deep gameplay? Raids in WoW and mission/complexes in Eve are the same thing. You figure out how the designer intended you to beat the thing, and then you click buttons until it's done. The only edge WoW has in that department is diversity. As for the PVP in WoW being hardcore, get back to us when they let you loot your victim's corpse of the epics he grinded the same raid sixty times to get (or stood AFK in Alterac Valley for hours to get, or whatever the designers have decided is the flavor of the week gameplay paradigm that'll keep 9 million slapheads interested for another year until Revenge of the Lich King comes out).
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2007.08.02 06:02:00 - [46] EVE was never meant for the general population. So it is not surprising that very few people that heard about it, do stick with it. It is currently de-facto standard in wide auditory mmos that there is no death item drop and the equipment sink is built around item enchanting (so you lose the item if you want to enchant it etc), or there is no sink at all like in wow (didn t play it but never heard anyone complain of broken item).. EVE is very different form that which is the reason it will never become as popular as other MMOs. However it is still known to as much people. EVE developers knew from the start what are they going for so no worries about all those people bashing EVE. EVE certainly gained a lot of publicity over time of existance so now alot of people know about it. This simple fact, combined with the fact that EVE is actually attractive to much fewer people than any other current MMO, makes the rest of the crowd bash the game. It is the only possible outcome. If CCP wanted to avoid bashing by those who know the game but simply don't like it, they should have avoided the wide advertising, instead doing niche advertising, so that the people who would read their ads would be more likely to actually like the game. I don't know how would this be possible though...
Barbarellas Daughter Lonely Barbarella	Posted - 2007.08.02 06:14:00 - [47] Originally by: Lewis Breaker ok u train your skills, get the new ship and mods go ganking, once u done that then what do u do? train your skills, get the new ship and mods go ganking ____________________________________________ Originally by: Marduk Felzhen You have an amazing cleavage, except you have no arms :(
Ket Halpak Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.02 06:19:00 - [48] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Originally by: Lewis Breaker ok u train your skills, get the new ship and mods go ganking, once u done that then what do u do? train your skills, get the new ship and mods go ganking I think someone once calculated that it would take 28 years to train all the skills in eve. With new skills being introduced with each major expansion, it will take longer. Now how long does it take you to max out in WoW? _ Check out my blog at RantingsofaCarebear.blogspot.com Privateers: Those who don't adapt become victims of harsh irony

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