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What's with all the nerfing crap?

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Lastdon	Posted - 2007.08.02 06:52:00 - [31] Problem is it is so far out of wack that a 340K ship can take down a 115 mill ship with no problems Its not a problem... battleships arent meant to be alone and win against every smaller ship by default. The game is designed that way. Unless you fly a dominix. Yes it is a problem. A BS pilot with decent skills should easily be able to kill even a T2 frigate. the name of the ship alone is self explaining Battleship!!!!!
Daelin Blackleaf No Joy Corp Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.08.02 10:16:00 - [32] Originally by: Mari Onette Edited by: Mari Onette on 02/08/2007 00:08:54 Balancing an rpg isn't easy. As a general rule when you start buffing things rather then nerfing them, you cause the game to become more unbalanced rather then less. It is easier and makes more sense to hammer in the nail that sticks out, then pull all the other ones out an inch. As far as the nos go, you should have been using neuts all along anyways. Why do you think they exist in the game? and yes, it is module by module. see, they have a list of all the broken things in the game, and they go down that list and they tweak them one by one, then see how it effects game balance. After the game stabilizes again they make more changes. Having done some minor 1v1 piracy with a nos vexor, nos against frigates and even cruisers is just downright unfair. Their cap is gone in a matter of seconds and then i can sit there and pick them apart at my leisure. I felt very dirty about the fact they never even got a chance to get through my shields and I did it all without ever firing a shot or using any cap. I dont understand why people say a level playing field is bad. Actually I do understand. I understand all too well why people don't want a level playing field. When faced with a level playing field, you have to rely on skills, intelligence, and tactics to win. If you have no skills, intelligence or tactics, a level playing field must be quite intimidating. I'd have to agree with all of the above, sure it's not nice when something you use gets nerfed, but that is only because you have started to become reliant on the FOTM. As for those complaining battleships are unbalanced because they can't destroy cheaper targets with ease.. well that is balance, everything has it's counter. If you wanted to kill frigates you shouldn't be flying a battleship, if you wanted to survive them you shouldn't be flying it alone. An example: The Tank It's vulnerable to infantry, artillery, anti-tank guns, etc. That's without even mentioning the dreaded Anti-Tank Dog. Does all this mean tanks are poorly balanced? That they are are useless with no place on the modern battlefield? No, because they're great against fortified positions, enemy vehicles, and anything dumb enough to stand still. RL is not EVE but the point is neither the tank or the battleship are supposed to be solowtfpwn machines, they need support and/or they need to be applied tactically or alternatively in a blob (Combined forces/armoured unit, though it would be nice to see more combined forces, imo the battleship is still too strong vs frigates).
Lord Zoran Caldari House of Tempers	Posted - 2007.08.02 11:21:00 - [33] Originally by: Vyyrus can we nerf the exotic dancers? hehe. not the exotic dancers, what will i do when i have no ships to kill? anyway /signed far too much nerfing going on can we plz keep the game kinda the same for a while at least? tbh i'd like to see a day where eve was put back to its glory days (hell yeah i want multi mwds again ) without all the nerfing and such going on --------------------------------------------- no sig for you !!!
General Apocalypse Amarr The Merchant Marines	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:27:00 - [34] Hello alt Quote: I felt very dirty about the fact they never even got a chance to get through my shields and I did it all without ever firing a shot or using any cap. Why do you think you pay more for your ship and wait more for your skills ? Simple to sweep aside the guys that does not have the same skills and ship . Nevertheless if they had a battersetup they woud have fried you. 4 Example i killed plenty of BC whit a humble cruiser . The skills and tactics apply to fleet battles those who use them are very succesfull in the game (MC,CoW) . Solo pvp shoud not require you to stress yourself like in RL. In fact do you know what a 0.0 pilot does to in empire besides shooping ? Piracy , why cuz it's relaxing compared whit the complex life in 0.0 . Say NO to the NOS nerf
Cleric JohnPreston	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:36:00 - [35] the problem im having with the constant nerfs is its making some of my skills useless now and i take my skills to 4 minimum. How does that benefit anyone in the same boat? All CCP is doing is diluting EVE. Stop listening to whiners CCP.
Mordrake ComNav Resources SunStorm Dominion	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:39:00 - [36] If CCP didn't make game ballance changes every now and again we would all be Caldari. I had an easy life as a noob before the Missile nerf. "Arte et Marte"
Kiersten	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:41:00 - [37] Just wanna say goodbye to the amarr recons CCP didnt think about before doing this... i know the nos-domi is a bit hard to counter but did ccp think of all the others ships that use and depend on nos?
Esk Esme Caldari High4Life	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:41:00 - [38] signed nothign is overpowerd everything has its place NOS just fine as it is Damps / ew just fine as they r nano /istabs were just fine as they were adapt and use differant mods /set ups /rigs on your own ships ppl try someithing instead of crieying i rember the nano's ppl moanign OH NO'S A NANO DOMI DOING 6K NERF NERF NERF WTF get u r own corp and alliance to put out a few nano domi's phoon's vaga's so on to put few in the fild also fight fire with fire try out some damn tactics i also find it sad that alot ppl who moan dont even use the damn mods them selfs and have no idea how GANG/ FLEET set up needs 1 and all types to blend well if u want to fix/nerf somthign then it sould b fix the sever / nerf the lag EVERYTHING ELS IS JUST FINE my 2 cent actauly i think amarr could do with a buff they seem to get kicked in the nutz alot with these nerf's
firepup82 The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:43:00 - [39] Originally by: F90OEX After that everything will be nerfed so much, shuttles will be next. Shuttles are too fast....sometimes they make it to the gate LMAO!
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Cherybol Sweet baby jesus don't mention other modules that the carebears might whine about! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes sir, all the nerfs have been done for carebears you just found your "I lost the forums" button
mcSpeedfreak Fusion Enterprises Ltd Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:51:00 - [41] What happened to the 'Nerf nerfing' campaign ? Oh, stop, don't tell me, i know! It got nerfed... I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
Ciuci FinFleet	Posted - 2007.08.02 12:53:00 - [42] I never though i would say this but the way that CCP changed Nosferatus seem pretty ok ... And they did lay out an exact explanation. I just do not agree with all this pickering and whinnying. I believe that there should be a strict rule on posting all this nerf that and nerf this ... And I don't see why extreme measure's are not taken against the people that start these trolling threads. And do not get me started on alt posting and the like. Why does the GM and the forum admins endorse this kind of behavior ? Start banning IP's and accounts ... Even if it's just warning bans for like 12 h ore 1 day ... but I think there's NO DISCIPLINE in these forums. There is a special thread for suggestions and ideas. Go post there ... or file a petition.
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:05:00 - [43] I think that CCP should nerf overpowered modules in small steps instead of making major changes at once like with the NOS. They could reduce the transfered amount by 5% and/or add a small trackingpenalty in each patch untill it becomes balanced.
tikinish	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:10:00 - [44] Edited by: tikinish on 02/08/2007 13:12:14 lol i think that people that arnt thinking about the reality is just piiiiiip here we go. when it comes to a point where a specific EW or feature gets so powerfull that you can't defeat it without using the same thing, it is time to nerf it. this is called balance. and the t2 ammo, target painter, the ecm, the nos, the nona, etc etc. have all been at that point, and have all seen a nerf, even when we lose severel millions of sp because of a change, we should not whine because normal logic TOLD us that it would be balanced out, and therefore it was our choice to see how much we could gain from it before it got balanced. and i think i will stop here since people that can't even realise this is to ******** to understand it no matter how you say it. edit: the only nerf that i have heard of that was a overdue is the lasers (but this is because it is a weapon type, and it should be a most have as all other weapon types and it got nerfed as a "optional" mod)
Arachidamia Matari People's Front	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:16:00 - [45] Originally by: Lastdon Yes it is a problem. A BS pilot with decent skills should easily be able to kill even a T2 frigate. the name of the ship alone is self explaining Battleship!!!!! Then why bother with smaller ships at all? By your logic the titan was perfectly fine prenerf. So what if it was impossible to kill in a battle? When a ship costs that much and needs so many skills, it should surely easily beat anything it meets right? It even has the name Titan! need I say more?
Cruzius Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:19:00 - [46] It was about time to balance NOS. Not only because it¦s an overpowered module, but also because of variety. If you go to LowSec every nOOb pirate is flying a damn NOS-Domi, NOS-Vexor, NOS-this, NOS-that... The list seems endless. NOS is meant to be a defensive, therefore Tank enhancing module, not an offensive module with the nice sideeffects. I welcome this changes for the cause of more variety in the game, even if i wanted to train a curse. But there is still a lot of work to do. Don¦t take this personally but look around. There are so many Caldari / Archuras, their combined forces could easily take down the empire... For Missionrunning everyone seems to use a Raven or a passivrechargeratemonsterpseudobalanced Drake. Even 10 week old chars can use them to solo LVL4. EVE is damn huge so use all the possibilities not just only a few soloown mobiles because it is easier. So get over it, adjust Tactics and Skills and everything should be fine. THX p.s. sry for Caldari-Bash but thats my opinion
Cruzius Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:35:00 - [47] Quote: Yes it is a problem. A BS pilot with decent skills should easily be able to kill even a T2 frigate. the name of the ship alone is self explaining Battleship!!!!! No he shouldn¦t. The Reason is fairly simple. I have been in the Navy for a few years and there were a lot of trainings especially designd to fight of small patrol boats or rafts because a frigate or destroyer (RL Ships :-) ) is build to neutralize big targets at big ranges. So to fight off these small pesky things we had to train Handguns, Machineguns and all this other small weaponstuff (maybe we should have used a webber lol). Every class has it¦s own purpose. It¦s pretty hard to build a "real" multirole ship. Surely you can fit rockets or webber or anything else on a EVE-BS but it costs damage. It¦s your decision what you want.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:53:00 - [48] Originally by: General Apocalypse Hello alt Why do you think you pay more for your ship and wait more for your skills ? Simple to sweep aside the guys that does not have the same skills and ship . See THIS is part of the issue with NOS. Simpy, it takes upwards of 75-80 DAYS to train for T2 guns for a BS sized ship, but a 1 day old character can have the skills to use Large NOS effectively. Simply, it was a no-brainer option that was overly effective, took no skill to use and as such has been a must-fit if you even wanted to have a chance. Since it was intended as a defensive module to keep yourself alive longer, it needed to be re-balanced back to its original intention. The Inertial Stabilizer nerf was a different story. It was a broken module that was fixed within a couple of months of introducing it to begin with. YOu can't fault CCP for putting in new toys then finding out later that they made a small mistake. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.02 13:59:00 - [49] Originally by: Cleric JohnPreston the problem im having with the constant nerfs is its making some of my skills useless now and i take my skills to 4 minimum. How does that benefit anyone in the same boat? All CCP is doing is diluting EVE. Stop listening to whiners CCP. CCP planed it a year ago. you don't know how CCP worked. It's only a nerf to battleships, if you don't think so I'll waste you in my frigate. Listen, just because someone is in a small ship doesn't mean they are a Noob. Some people like small ships. you can spemd over 500 dyas just training skills for small ships. well I beileve my 10 mil sp in my wolf should be able to lock down your battle ship using a few smart bombs, a scarm, and a nos to keep the smart bombs up. now I can, not becuase I'm in a small ship but because I trained heavily into the field, and you might just be surprized what it hitting you when it has full skills, and you don't just kill my cap in 2 seconds. However, I can now use nos to leech of of you. and it will work perfectly. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: CCP posted a new dev blog, they are going to bring Nos in line with.....well....logic
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: General Apocalypse Hello alt Why do you think you pay more for your ship and wait more for your skills ? Simple to sweep aside the guys that does not have the same skills and ship . See THIS is part of the issue with NOS. Simpy, it takes upwards of 75-80 DAYS to train for T2 guns for a BS sized ship, but a 1 day old character can have the skills to use Large NOS effectively. Simply, it was a no-brainer option that was overly effective, took no skill to use and as such has been a must-fit if you even wanted to have a chance. Since it was intended as a defensive module to keep yourself alive longer, it needed to be re-balanced back to its original intention. The Inertial Stabilizer nerf was a different story. It was a broken module that was fixed within a couple of months of introducin g it to begin with. YOu can't fault CCP for putting in new toys then finding out later that they made a small mistake. sure they can, and they are. I mean hell who better to deside what happens in the game then people like these that know everything about game mechcanics. I'll say it agian, there is no nerf. just a change inhow a module works. if they nerfed it, it would of been a decrease in nos ammount to blance the numbers. or sigradius. instead CCP took a new angle on it and came up with something new. Where is not a nerf, it's just a new module, one that I can't wait to use on my curse because it is now overpowered, when fighting larger ships. VERY, overpowered. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: CCP posted a new dev blog, they are going to bring Nos in line with.....well....logic
Angelus Xenotov	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:04:00 - [51] Was the nos abit too powerful? Probably. But the way it was 'fixed' (See: Broken) is completely stupid and makes no sense. If the nos sucked based on % of enemy cap (So 200 at 100%, 100 at 50%, 50 at 25%, etc) or something like that? Yeah, that'd have made sense. Not 'Link it in with our cap 111!!1!1sin/cos/tan/lol/nedm!11!!
Ovno ConSyquence Amarr The Plebians	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:18:00 - [52] Edited by: Ovno ConSyquence on 02/08/2007 14:18:54 Couldn't agree more STOP NERFING!!!! I mean you could just see it right back at the dawn of man, one ape picks up a bone hits another ape with it knocking him out and steals his food, then once the victim ape wakes up he goes and whines to god to nerf the power of bone clubs... Fast forward a few million years and guess what all the apes are still sat there in the dirt because everytime one of them works out an advantage its get nerfed because the others don't want to have to use it.... There is only one solution to something being more powerfull than everything else, you build something even more powerfull, there should be escalation not nerfing. After all you can always build a bigger gun... (Though if there has to be a nos nerf i like what they've done)
Cruzius Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:22:00 - [53] Edited by: Cruzius on 02/08/2007 14:23:42 Edited by: Cruzius on 02/08/2007 14:22:24 Quote: If the nos sucked based on % of enemy cap (So 200 at 100%, 100 at 50%, 50 at 25%, etc) or something like that? Yeah, that'd have made sense. hmm sounds interesting, but atm there is still the possibility to drain a cap completly if you sacrifice your own. The changes you would like to see would make this a litte bit difficult. If NOS would work your way, it would not be logicical to try so. For each percentage you have to adjust the NOS transfer ammount. The lower the targets cap is the less you get. So it would not be possible to drain it to zero. Fixed Values have the Problem that there is to much margin to trick with it.
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Lastdon Problem is it is so far out of wack that a 340K ship can take down a 115 mill ship with no problems Its not a problem... battleships arent meant to be alone and win against every smaller ship by default. The game is designed that way. Unless you fly a dominix. Yes it is a problem. A BS pilot with decent skills should easily be able to kill even a T2 frigate. the name of the ship alone is self explaining Battleship!!!!! This is correct, but, I guess it's hard hitting frigates when you load 8x425mm railguns. Everyone loads the maximum amount of large guns, but none of the smaller weapons. So if you were to face a frigate and you had smaller weapons in some of those high slots, you're damned right you'd be killing off that smaller frigate with ease. But people coming in here complaining that you can't kill off that tiny frigate with your big guns don't have a clue.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:35:00 - [55] Edited by: MotherMoon on 02/08/2007 14:37:16 Originally by: Christari Zuborov Originally by: Lastdon Problem is it is so far out of wack that a 340K ship can take down a 115 mill ship with no problems Its not a problem... battleships arent meant to be alone and win against every smaller ship by default. The game is designed that way. Unless you fly a dominix. Yes it is a problem. A BS pilot with decent skills should easily be able to kill even a T2 frigate. the name of the ship alone is self explaining Battleship!!!!! This is correct, but, I guess it's hard hitting frigates when you load 8x425mm railguns. Everyone loads the maximum amount of large guns, but none of the smaller weapons. So if you were to face a frigate and you had smaller weapons in some of those high slots, you're damned right you'd be killing off that smaller frigate with ease. But people coming in here complaining that you can't kill off that tiny frigate with your big guns don't have a clue. can I ask you something? have you EVER played an RTS before eve? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: CCP posted a new dev blog, they are going to bring Nos in line with.....well....logic
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:40:00 - [56] Originally by: Hannobaal ... The problem is that there seems to be a mentality that anything that there isn't a very blatantly clear counter to ... Passive tank? Double cap booster? Fit Nos yourself? ECM drones? Damp them? Theres 5 counters in 5 seconds. SKUNK Originally by: Jeximo I also like how your cat only managed to hit the enter button when he/she jumped on your keyboard.
Ione Hunt 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:43:00 - [57] That's because EVE's "Hello Kitty" community is growing. Like every random WOW player they can't deal with anything that's harder than clicking F1-F8. If it involves tactics and brains to counter, they whine...after all, using your brain hurts I 100% agree with that post, the amount of "nerf" posts by people to stupid to adapt is getting a bit out of hand recently. _______________
Christari Zuborov Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:44:00 - [58] Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 02/08/2007 14:37:16 Originally by: Christari Zuborov Originally by: Lastdon Problem is it is so far out of wack that a 340K ship can take down a 115 mill ship with no problems Its not a problem... battleships arent meant to be alone and win against every smaller ship by default. The game is designed that way. Unless you fly a dominix. Yes it is a problem. A BS pilot with decent skills should easily be able to kill even a T2 frigate. the name of the ship alone is self explaining Battleship!!!!! This is correct, but, I guess it's hard hitting frigates when you load 8x425mm railguns. Everyone loads the maximum amount of large guns, but none of the smaller weapons. So if you were to face a frigate and you had smaller weapons in some of those high slots, you're damned right you'd be killing off that smaller frigate with ease. But people coming in here complaining that you can't kill off that tiny frigate with your big guns don't have a clue. can I ask you something? have you EVER played an RTS before eve? Can I ask you something? Have you EVER been on a REAL naval vessel?
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:48:00 - [59] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter A corp mate fits dampeners on a BB. Either ECM got nerfed too much or dampeners are overpowered edit: bumping another whine thread, maybe ill get a screenshot with only whining on the first page.... What's wrong with fitting dampeners on a battleship? And how does that prove dampeners are overpowered? Every combat ship (especially when used solo) should fit Ewar. It's not going to be anywhere near as effective at it (even if it fits loads of them) as even a tech 1 Ewar frigate, but it is going to be very effective against a pilot that didn't count on the possibility of Ewar being used. That's a good thing. ------------------
Pherusa Plumosa Minmatar Corp die auf alles schiesst wo was sie Lust hat	Posted - 2007.08.02 15:11:00 - [60] Originally by: Hannobaal What's wrong with fitting dampeners on a battleship? And how does that prove dampeners are overpowered? Jamming: You need a bunch of skills & advanced skills to lvl 4 or 5 and ecm-strengh-mods in the lows to have an effective chance to jam a target. Dampening: Dampener on, target is dampered NOS: A module, that has huge defensive AND offensive use in combat is broken. You can still use Nos for recovering your cap. For burning your opponents cap, you need Neuts now. So Nos are for defense, Neuts for offense. It's fair in my eyes.

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