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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.03 17:26:00 -
[1]
Yeah, let's take as much of the strategy and realism (what to me makes the game worth playing) out of Eve. Yes, please, thank you so much!!! </sarcasm>
I'm against adding any (more) artificial elements onto the game world that take away from the grand strategy and sense of "realism" in the game. Any kind of instancing or "Arena" style combat would be very high on that list.
If all you care about in Eve is the individual fights ship against ship then continue to organize them yourself for yourself as you're doing now. There's nothing to stop you.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.03 18:28:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Curzon Dax
1. Its YOUR fault for making lowsec PvP a mothership/carrier/gatecamp fest and unfun.
That's not what low-sec is like. It's simply what some people like you who never go there think it's like. It's a myth based on a tiny few selective facts. For people like me who live in 0.0 mainly, low-sec is a safe zone only slightly more dangerous than high-sec.
In the last 8 months that I've been playing Eve (a very large portion of it spent in low-sec and 0.0) I've seen a mothership in low-sec twice, and only one of those time was the mothership camping. I have never seen a regular carrier in low-sec except when they are simply jumping through heading someplace else. An alt in a frig sets up a cyno by the station, they jump in and dock, and a little while later they undock and jump out.
I have seen two Dreadnoughts (Tiller and Skywalker) camping a station in Egbinger back in January or February something. But that's only once.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.03 20:25:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Look. Seriously. Look. I am NOT going to 0.0 or lowsec. I will PvP, in a fair fight any day. And lose my ship with a grin on my face. I repeat. I am NOT going to come play your way.
Why not just hop into a non-implant clone, get a Condor with mwd and run around exploring 0.4 - 0.1 systems with no real risk just to find out how wrong your view of low-sec really is?
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.03 20:53:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Originally by: Hannobaal
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Look. Seriously. Look. I am NOT going to 0.0 or lowsec. I will PvP, in a fair fight any day. And lose my ship with a grin on my face. I repeat. I am NOT going to come play your way.
Why not just hop into a non-implant clone, get a Condor with mwd and run around exploring 0.4 - 0.1 systems with no real risk just to find out how wrong your view of low-sec really is?
Because this is a sandbox. And I can do what I want. And when I PvP, I choose for it to be on equal footing. Sorry that you don't support anyone's playstyle except your own. 
You can do whatever you want and play the game however you want.
What I'm saying is that your view of what low-sec is generally like is in error, and I'm letting you know how you can go and find out for yourself which one of us is right without really risking losing anything at all.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.03 21:02:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Malcanis
Lo-sec is like asbestos; short exposures with appropriate safety measures are fine.
Nah, low-sec (with a tiny few exceptions) is 0.0 people's high-sec. I make it through N-RAEL into Konora and it's like "yay, I'm safe now."
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.03 21:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
I haven't taken a Condor to lowsec, but I've certainly prowled around with my Arazu. Lots of places.
Then you should know that low-sec is not the carrier and mothership filled place you describe it as.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.03 23:34:00 -
[7]
Dude, you're so full of it. You don't know what you're talking about, and you're just spewing prejudices and myths about what the rest of the game world (and the rest of the players) is like from sitting in high-sec systems.
No one in this thread is even questioning your choice of how to play the game and you get defensive about it and say we can't criticise it, yet at the same time you feel you have the right to completely misrepresent how others play the game (on purpose or through ignorance) and insult them for no reason.
You don't want to be in low-sec? Fine. You don't want to be part of alliance warfare in 0.0? Fine. No one really cares.
Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong on this issue though.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.04 01:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Wow, congratulations. You showed up to flame too. Here's some insight.
The argument made is this: Adding consensual PvP to Empire would increase PvP participation.
Then I went on to show a bunch of different reasons why it was so, as well as why more PvP is a good thing. For you to constructively argue, you should point out one of the following:
1. Why consensual PvP would NOT increase PvP participation
2. Why more PvP is bad.
That's just called logic, with a touch of rhetoric. Feel free to make yourself useful and use it. Short of that, plenty of folks with your mindset have already stepped in to flame away pointlessly with the same tired rhetoric, without actually oferring any constructive alternatives.
You've been incessantly flaming a large section of the Eve player base through the entire thread, and you acuse me of flaming when I point it out? Whatever...
"Consensual pvp" is possible in the game right now as you've already pointed out yourself to begin with. If that's the case, what's the problem? And why do you feel the need for adding more artificial elements to the game world that ruin it for those of use who enjoy the sense of realism that's in the game right now (well, at least to an extent) to provide it?
You admit you have to pay people large amounts of money to get them to fight in your staged "fair fights" against and you still have a problem getting them to do it, and yet you think that if it was implemented as a game mechanic people would be lining up to join? Hello???
The one and only thing right now that keeps a lot of players (but far from all) from fighting more in Eve is fear of losing. Fear of losing battles and fear of losing stuff. That's why you have people (who want to fight) sitting in empire high-sec thinking you have to have at the minimum 15 mil sp and a fully tech 2 fitted battleship with rigs before you can participate in pvp combat, while on the other hand you have week old newbies moving out to 0.0 and thriving. I don't think that mentality is going to change no matter what game mechanics are implemented unless the risk and loss is removed.
The people who feel that they need loads of sp and super pimped out ships or they won't risk fighting are going to feel that way whether the fight is between 50 man fleets in 0.0, between small gangs on low-sec gates or in a staged "consensual" environment in the safety of high-sec.
Personally I was going into 0.0 on my own only a couple of weeks after I started playing, and was killing Serpentis battleship rats (in the Cloud Ring and Syndicate) in my Thorax while dodging the locals. That's before I had even joined a player corp. I don't care about losing ships. I lose loads. I've run through more hostile gate camps on the Konora gate in N-RAEL than I can count going in and out of 0.0, and I've lost 100s of millions in all from the few times I've been caught.
If I want pvp combat, I can get it out in my alliance's area in 0.0 or in nearby regions. Not because I "feel safe in the blob or gang squad" and "don't want to take risks", but because I enjoy fleet versus fleet combat more than solo combat and because I enjoy the empire building and political alliance war aspect of the game.
So, I don't need a controlled safe environment in high-sec to have fake, staged, "fair fights" with other players. If you do, you should continue to try and organize them yourself without asking for changes to the game that run contrary to the basic idea behind it (and what makes it enjoyable for people like me) without addressing the real basic problem that keeps people holed up in high-sec not fighting even though they want to. That is: risk averseness.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.04 02:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Originally by: Hannobaal
You've been incessantly flaming a large section of the Eve player base through the entire thread,
Let me repeat....
You are a very vocal minority. Look at the galactic map. That is all.
Assuming you're right (as if we didn't also spend time in high-sec systems like everyone else, but anyway), are you saying that gives you a right to flame other players and question their playing style and then turn around and acuse people of flaming you and questioning your playing style when they simply disagree with you?
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.04 02:37:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Hannobaal on 04/08/2007 02:42:08
Originally by: Curzon Dax
*EDIT* Actually, I'm being unfair. Lets look at it a different way. There are more people hugging Empire than participating in 0.0 stuff. So says the galactic map, so it always says.
Under the presumption that once people get 15 million SP and tech2 ships, or whatever they feel they need to go to 0.0 and PvP....
1. Either Eve has a tremendous turnover rate.
2. They don't stay in 0.0 / lowsec.
3. They decided not to go after all.
4. What you say isn't true.
I'd say 3 mostly, but also 2. At least that's my experience. Also, alot of people (like me) spend a lot of time all over the map including high sec. I do a little trade and manufacture on the side, plus I like shopping in Jita. So, that also shows up on the galactic map.
Quote:
One way of the other, the majority are not PvPing. They SHOULD PvP.
They "should"? I disagree there actually. What if all you want to do is do the industrial financial side of the game?
Quote:
Is there a better way than offering organized, consensual PvP for them to get their teeth wet?
There is, as you already started out by pointing out to us in the first post in this thread, nothing stopping anyone from organizing those fights right now. I am saying I don't think they are likely to happen too often either way. Simply because a lot of people (and not just in empire, don't misunderstand what I'm saying) are way, way too risk averse. I just don't think game mechanics are going to change their mentality short of actually removing the risk and loss.
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