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The utility of arena combat in EVE space

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Khes	Posted - 2007.08.06 17:10:00 - [1] Im against the arena fighting concept because it would somewhat degare the game to a space fight-sim. The difference is the reason you fight. With the arena fight concept you fght just becuase of the fight. The beauty of eve is that most fights take place of a reason like money, expanding/defending territorys and stuff like that. Thats what makes Eve a natural environment with progression and change and life. Wth arena fighting you just fight with no other reason then to beat and blow up your opponent. It is so shallow. So plain. So one dmensional. When you loos you just put in a another coin and stand in line for the next fight. I like the thought of fighting to survive in world of Eve rather then just..... fight. Ofcorse there would be fights in a world like eve just for competition but please let it be more of a rare ocasional event instead of a CCP-implemented in-game feature.
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.06 19:51:00 - [2] Edited by: Khes on 06/08/2007 19:53:30 Originally by: Curzon Dax Originally by: Khes Im against the arena fighting concept because it would somewhat degare the game to a space fight-sim. The difference is the reason you fight. With the arena fight concept you fght just becuase of the fight. The beauty of eve is that most fights take place of a reason like money, expanding/defending territorys and stuff like that. Thats what makes Eve a natural environment with progression and change and life. Wth arena fighting you just fight with no other reason then to beat and blow up your opponent. It is so shallow. So plain. So one dmensional. When you loos you just put in a another coin and stand in line for the next fight. I like the thought of fighting to survive in world of Eve rather then just..... fight. Ofcorse there would be fights in a world like eve just for competition but please let it be more of a rare ocasional event instead of a CCP-implemented in-game feature. What a load of crap. =p I bet you any amount of ISK that 95%+ of people in Eve fight to see other people blow up. And that's it. They do it for killmails and explosions, and loot. Arena would be no different. Ok, perhas you are right. I guess Im a bit naive and it might be wishfull thinking that most fights takes place in some sort of context (priate attack pray, attacking reds, and so on). But anyway, the point I was trying to make is that I would not want Eve to move in the direction of any multiplayer FPS concept where you join a deathmatch-server just to get some kill. Do you know what I mean? I like that kind of games aswell BUT I would hate to see EVE become something like that. And Im affraid that if arena fights would be implemented it would push Eve in that direction. To take it to the extreme just to paint a picture Im affraid fights would not longer be fights it would be matches with score and half-fime break and timeouts, and with couches and referee. No thanks!
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.06 20:49:00 - [3] Originally by: Curzon Dax Originally by: Khes Edited by: Khes on 06/08/2007 19:53:30 Originally by: Curzon Dax Originally by: Khes Im against the arena fighting concept because it would somewhat degare the game to a space fight-sim. The difference is the reason you fight. With the arena fight concept you fght just becuase of the fight. The beauty of eve is that most fights take place of a reason like money, expanding/defending territorys and stuff like that. Thats what makes Eve a natural environment with progression and change and life. Wth arena fighting you just fight with no other reason then to beat and blow up your opponent. It is so shallow. So plain. So one dmensional. When you loos you just put in a another coin and stand in line for the next fight. I like the thought of fighting to survive in world of Eve rather then just..... fight. Ofcorse there would be fights in a world like eve just for competition but please let it be more of a rare ocasional event instead of a CCP-implemented in-game feature. What a load of crap. =p I bet you any amount of ISK that 95%+ of people in Eve fight to see other people blow up. And that's it. They do it for killmails and explosions, and loot. Arena would be no different. Ok, perhas you are right. I guess Im a bit naive and it might be wishfull thinking that most fights takes place in some sort of context (priate attack pray, attacking reds, and so on). But anyway, the point I was trying to make is that I would not want Eve to move in the direction of any multiplayer FPS concept where you join a deathmatch-server just to get some kill. Do you know what I mean? I like that kind of games aswell BUT I would hate to see EVE become something like that. And Im affraid that if arena fights would be implemented it would push Eve in that direction. To take it to the extreme just to paint a picture Im affraid fights would not longer be fights it would be matches with score and half-fime break and timeouts, and with couches and referee. No thanks! Hrm...I'm not sure where you're coming from. The kind of arena I'm visualizing is just a little bit of space where CONCORD doesn't look. I send you a convo request, ask you if you want to duke it out with me, and we go to the arena. We fight, one of us blows up, and the other person collects the loot and goes about their merry way. I belive what you want isnt a arena, you want a way to accept beeing attacked by a specific person of you choosing? If someone challenge you, you would like to be able to accept the challenge and then you can fight anywhere without loosing sec status? Even in high-sec and concord would not interfere? Am I right?
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.06 21:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Curzon Dax Ok, I guess I would be able to accept something like that in some way. I just dont want it to become a way for players to avoid taking part of the rest of the world and only go for "controlled fights". Or a region/system that is isolated from the rest of the Eve world just because it is "only for controlled fights" if you know what I mean. That would not be Eve anymore. The point is that I would not want to see non-consensual PvP disappare or if Eve would become a multi-sharded game with separate arena servers or something like that. And the word arena just stinks a bit like that to me. =)
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.06 21:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Curzon Dax Ok, I guess I would be able to accept something like that in some way. I just dont want it to become a way for players to avoid taking part of the rest of the world and only go for "controlled fights". Or a region/system that is isolated from the rest of the Eve world just because it is "only for controlled fights" if you know what I mean. That would not be Eve anymore. The point is that I would not want to see non-consensual PvP disappare or if Eve would become a multi-sharded game with separate arena servers or something like that. And the word arena just stinks a bit like that to me. =)
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.07 17:14:00 - [6] Edited by: Khes on 07/08/2007 17:24:26 Edited by: Khes on 07/08/2007 17:16:15 Edited by: Khes on 07/08/2007 17:14:36 Originally by: Curzon Dax Just want to warp in and pew pew. Against someone else. Not against 15 someone elses. Im a bit hesitant towards having a feature that sets up a fight for you. To me that sound like a fight-simulator inside the game. Yes, you loose your ship wich you paid for if you loose the fight but it is still a fight sim. The fight would not be with in the set world, it would be a generated "fake" fight with some perks or something. Sure I would like to se more smaller fights out there but I would never ask the system/game to create a pretend fight scenario for me with limitations and bouderies just to get a fight the way you want it. It's like if the mining community was to ask for a low-sec system to mine in where no pirates would be able to interfere or the stones never went ou, just because they like that kind of mining-style more. Or a trader was to ask for a new market outside the real market where all items had the same price with no competition between sellers just because the people on the REAL market don't sell me items the prices I want to. Ok, the simile does not work all the way because it would make you more money but the thought of asking for something that goes outside the the set world of Eve and its rules just because you can't get the fights you want is to me a no.
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.07 20:36:00 - [7] Edited by: Khes on 07/08/2007 20:38:22 Edited by: Khes on 07/08/2007 20:37:33 Originally by: Curzon Dax You are talking like there are ONLY blobb fights where one side has a vast overweight in numbers. That is just not true. Many? Yes, lots! But there are other kind of fights aswell. Arena fights is just not a good way get around blobb-fights.
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.08 07:48:00 - [8] If you think PvP is so broken as it is now why not try to fix it rather then just add "another" PvP system for your specific likings??? I belive Eve would turn out to be a fragmented patchwork in the end if you just add new "alternative" systems to allready existing systems with no consideration of the big picture and the game as a whole. I belive that with more then one PvP system Eve will break. Whats the best way to allow all 30.000 people to fight the way they want? Is it to make a sub-system for each PvP-taste and liking you can come up with, or just have an open system that allows you to do what ever you want? If there are soooo many players out there that hates PvP as it is now, Eve would be really filled with people desperatly looking for what's in your words are "more fair" fights, shouldn't it be rather easy to find a fight like that then without building some sort of sub-PvP system for it?
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.08 09:51:00 - [9] Edited by: Khes on 08/08/2007 09:51:13 Originally by: Evelgrivion Very well put! QFT!
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.08 11:32:00 - [10] Just because you don't agree to something you think is a bad idea does not mean you are affraid of change. So stop with that argument, please.
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.08 17:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Curzon Dax Why do you persist on calling this a sandbox where anyone can do anything, as long as the "anyone" is you, and the "anything" fits in with your idea of what fun is? I know you responded to Blacktail here but I would like to say something about that. Yes, it is a sandbox game. Anyone can do anything they like. You can have as many championships as much as you like and no one should question that, thats one of the beauties of Eve. But now you are suggesting to change the system/game to your likings and that can anyone who wants to question and even object to.
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.08 18:27:00 - [12] Originally by: Curzon Dax Originally by: Khes Originally by: Curzon Dax Why do you persist on calling this a sandbox where anyone can do anything, as long as the "anyone" is you, and the "anything" fits in with your idea of what fun is? I know you responded to Blacktail here but I would like to say something about that. Yes, it is a sandbox game. Anyone can do anything they like. You can have as many championships as much as you like and no one should question that, thats one of the beauties of Eve. But now you are suggesting to change the system/game to your likings and that can anyone who wants to question and even object to. sigh Look. Take a gang or a fleet. Imagine support for this feature not being hardcoded into Eve. How much work would it take for you and all your friends to fly together without a gang feature? You would spend all the hours and grueling effort to make it work, but your gang would still fly together. Luckily, the Norse Gods at CCP implemented a feature to make it easier. The same applies to the idea of arena fights. Sure, I understand that. But I was refering to that you seemed to take offence to that Blacktail questioned your suggestion as if he was questioning something you did in game now within the sandbox bounderies. Never mind. Back to the topic.
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:19:00 - [13] Ok, re-cap time! Could someone please specify a little bit more what we actually are talking about here? Are we talking about a right-click menu item wich will allow you to accept a specific player to attack you without any interference from Concord, and nothing more? Or are we talking about a complex type of area (in high-sec, low-sec, 0.0?) where you enter to fight someone? Or just the concept of beeing able to PvP in high-sec in general?
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Nicho Void Specified combatants, thus eliminating being blobbed, scammed, and the like when someone decides to call in backup. ok, and by specified combatans you mean the ability to selectivly specify who/when/where someone can attack you? No one else can attack you when you have selected someone as your opponent?
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:48:00 - [15] If Im not entirely wrong here has not Eve won awards for it's PvP? Wouldnt that say something about what people think about it?
Khes	Posted - 2007.08.10 09:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Curzon Dax If there's a reason why folks shouldn't be able to fight at will, outside of a corp without having to try organizing something in lowsec...please, I'm interested to hear. I think you need to broaden your view a bit and see the whole picture. I see it like this. You arent suppose to be able to freely PvP in high-sec unless you are at war or you think it is worth it depsite Concord interference and your sec-status gets lowered. High-sec to me is an area for new players to get a chance to grow up and get a hang of the game a bit before they venture out in low-sec and 0.0. If you are able to freely PvP in high-sec one of the natural incintives to proceed out in low-sec and 0.0 would disapprear and those who would normaly go on to low-sec to PvP would stay in empire. If you don't like to PvP, stay in high-sec, if you like PvP move on to low-sec and 0.0. I consider that the natural way of life in Eve and I really think that is whats intended when CCP designed the game. CCP has for some time now worked on getting empire people to follow that way of progression in Eve. To let people freely PvP in high-sec would totaly make Eve move in the opposite direction. That is one of the reasons I don't like the idea.

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