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Scenario mission locations can be a trap.

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Ciber Wulf	Posted - 2004.01.31 20:36:00 - [1] While doing a scenario mission near to a point of interest, I was locked down by a guy in a blackbird. Three other player pirates in Ravens then came in and demanded 4 million isk. Naturally I launched fof cruise missiles and tried to get away. My missiles had little effect and they took out my moa and my pod. So, a warning to all, when doing these scenario missions, watch out for player pirates! I guess this kind of exploiting of mission players is approved of by CCP?
Crystina	Posted - 2004.01.31 21:18:00 - [2] Edited by: Crystina on 31/01/2004 21:18:58 CCP will never do anthing to correct this I guess, it's too low on the ladder of what's important so we just have to get used to it. C.
Vanaaa	Posted - 2004.01.31 21:44:00 - [3] Where's the exploit? I call that strategy and well thought gameplay And hey, I'm no pirate
Alessandra	Posted - 2004.01.31 22:15:00 - [4] Strategy? Well, yes -- in that it's a plan to execute a specific objective. At the same time, it's sort of bleh to have scenario locations camped by player pirates who lay in wait for the agent runners, who are naturally not set up for PvP action and are now assuredly away from sentry guns in what is generally a low-security area, when otherwise they'd be a bit more wary.
Viduus	Posted - 2004.01.31 22:32:00 - [5] How is it NOT an exploit? Somebody did that mission, copied the bookmark, then sits in wait for some sucker to come and get himself podded in what is SUPPOSED to be a random location. Furthermore, it's on par with "interfering with another's enjoyment of the game", contrary to EULA. I lost another indy and a some decent stuff to a gate camper in a 0.4 system in the middle of Gallente space (wth is that anyway!?!) and I don't ***** about it because I know that it's a pirate zone, even though I HAVE to go through it many times a day. But being forced to a confrontation in what's supposed to be an unknown spot is just plain wrong. * Public Channel: NEA *
Luther Pendragon	Posted - 2004.01.31 23:05:00 - [6] Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 31/01/2004 23:15:38 Whys it supposed to be a random/unknown location? I find it perfectly legit on the part of the players, and this is a MOG, expect other players to either help you, or hinder you. You can for example get a friend to help you in a kill mission. Its part of the game. Theres nothing stopping you or your buddies camping the same spot for these pirates, although admitedly its easier for them trapping so large numbers of 'innocent' mission runners than trapping the few pirates, which is a game design issue. Griefers always have the tools to grief, but catching them is near impossible. Otherwise it wouldnt be griefing. One problem though is that I'm always sent to the same spot! From the RP perspective the missions make it seem that they are unique events, which they arent, such as killing kruul over and over again. The other is that the definition of 'risk free' missions needs to be re evaluated and rewards adjusted accordingly. ____________________________________ Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi! waves his hand in your face in the jedi way
Toastmaster	Posted - 2004.01.31 23:32:00 - [7] Well i think they camped one of those missions where you have to get something from a flotsam... Just cansle those missions if there is pirates there "viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
Soilent	Posted - 2004.01.31 23:57:00 - [8] Edited by: Soilent on 31/01/2004 23:57:58 It's really lame that the same missions keep spawning around the same areas. Space is really, really huge, there's plenty of other areas in the same solar system to infest. I don't think the NPCs should be so stupid as to keep performing the same actions in the same locations, especially with such frequency as to be attractive to gankers. It also adds a lot of unwanted lag to missions, having 3 or 4 people doing the same mission at the same place is nasty, especially when that mission is known to spawn 5-8 NPC rats to shoot down. Between having 20-30 rats, 4 players, and tons of abandoned cargo containers from previous missions, the game slowed to a crawl. -------------------- Newbie for life!
Fausto	Posted - 2004.01.31 23:59:00 - [9] So we have camping version 3 now:/ Will there be another way of PVP for those lamers but camping and running? I guess not... ______ <brainpodder>
Atinia	Posted - 2004.02.01 00:04:00 - [10] I can't but wonder why CCP just writes it so everytime the location is different, it shouldn't be that bleedin' hard to do. Any CCP-peeps reading this posting btw? A.

Ciber Wulf	Posted - 2004.02.01 11:53:00 - [11] Edited by: Ciber Wulf on 01/02/2004 11:59:03 Quote: Its part of the game. Theres nothing stopping you or your buddies camping the same spot for these pirates. Yes, there are a few things stopping us hunting them: 1. The guy that hangs around as snare of the trap doesnt have a very low security. To simply warp in and kill him would ruin my security status. This would force me into an outlaw role myself. 2. I am in a small corp and we dont have enough battleship pilots online at the same time to deal with the 3 guys in ravens that inevitably appear. These guys are the teeth of the trap and normally have a very low security, doubtless due to the number of podkills they have done. Quote: One problem though is that I'm always sent to the same spot! Yes this is a problem. With so many mission players getting sent to the same spot over and over, it's easy pickings for player pirates. Too easy. Personally I think it would be best if this scenario mission was restricted to level 2 agents. The difficulty level is far too low for a level 3 agent runner. Quote: The other is that the definition of 'risk free' missions needs to be re evaluated and rewards adjusted accordingly. Yes, risk vs. reward would seems to be way out of proportion for mission running at the moment. I havent done as many missions as usual since this last patch, due to having to replace a moa and its equipment (thanks to player pirates) and spending last evening getting my scorpion pummeled by the mighty zor. However, I have made very little isk so far since this latest patch and have experienced much risk. PS, I blame the loss of my bs on my own inexperience flying my new scorp. And on the uber webifying/scrambling/cap draining power of zor. A corpmate lost his blackbird while trying to help out as well. My other corpmate, who used hit and run tactics in a kestrel, managed to keep his ship! Thanks go to Madwad and Plagues for helping out.
Matanga	Posted - 2004.02.01 12:39:00 - [12] Well I think is obvious. I'm an agent runner since day 1 (i consider myself a slave of my agents) But now i havent done 1 single mission for the last 4 days (with the exception of the R&D ones) I advise u to do the same....maybe when and if CCP sees that the number of missions done/day has decreased (drastically) they'll do something to fix this problem. Cheers to all u agent runners "ÆIn accordance with the principles of double-think it does not matter if the war is not real. For when it is, victory is not possible. The war is not meant to be won, but it is meant to be continuous.Æö George Orwell ô1984ö
Relic	Posted - 2004.02.01 13:05:00 - [13] Quote: Well I think is obvious. I'm an agent runner since day 1 (i consider myself a slave of my agents) But now i havent done 1 single mission for the last 4 days (with the exception of the R&D ones) I advise u to do the same....maybe when and if CCP sees that the number of missions done/day has decreased (drastically) they'll do something to fix this problem. Cheers to all u agent runners Have to say that I'm doing the same. As CCP has stated that the main reward from missions should be standing, there seems to be little point to do them once you have the standing to get the right research agent or 0 cost refining.
Tirren	Posted - 2004.02.01 13:50:00 - [14] What systems are being camped? If we keep the agent runners informed (even though it has to be from the sacrifice of someone else) we will keep these cheap PK'rs out of possible money and can keep our ships as well. *"I can only take so much before I'll blow up my own ship. Hey isn't that what insurance is for?"* EVE Agent Info Guide v1.21
Psychic Sue	Posted - 2004.02.01 13:58:00 - [15] Edited by: Psychic Sue on 01/02/2004 14:01:20 this is by far the best roleplayed tactic there currently is for the pirate profession in game. I cant see why this should be an exploit. its no griefing either as they demanded a toll and a reasonable one for a cruiser pilot. ohh well, next time someone sells Tritanium to me at 2 isk where I only want to pay 1 and need it badly I'll call up the EULA and point him to the line telling he's interferring with my playing enjoyment.
csebal	Posted - 2004.02.01 16:36:00 - [16] Edited by: csebal on 01/02/2004 16:37:35 Quote: Edited by: Psychic Sue on 01/02/2004 14:01:20 this is by far the best roleplayed tactic there currently is for the pirate profession in game. I cant see why this should be an exploit. its no griefing either as they demanded a toll and a reasonable one for a cruiser pilot. ohh well, next time someone sells Tritanium to me at 2 isk where I only want to pay 1 and need it badly I'll call up the EULA and point him to the line telling he's interferring with my playing enjoyment. Quite simple: An exploit is the abuse of game mechanics to gain an unfair advantage over others. Bookmarking the mission location and waiting there for agent runners is exploiting, because the missions were meant to be random in location, so normally you would have little to no chance to catch someone doing the mission by camping. As the system is clearly not working the way it was intended, using above mentioned way to get some free kills is just that: an exploit. Damn its even an exploit to refuse missions until you get one that fits your taste (implant for example), how in hell would griefing players at missions locations not count as one then? EDIT: This has nothing to do with Role Playing. An exploit can be role played, but it still remains an exploit. Besides, role playing griefing and exploiting is not an excuse to do it. ------------- This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way. -------------
Beseb	Posted - 2004.02.01 17:20:00 - [17] If the mission location was one of those "random" ones, then I can kinda, sorta, a little bit agree that's it's cheap. However, if you are talking about the PoI spots that your agent will send you to, well, then, that's up for grabs. Those spots can be fairly found and bookmarked by any player. Sucks that you got nailed, but you can't honestly claim that you had no idea about risks in that part of space.
Viduus	Posted - 2004.02.01 17:36:00 - [18] Most of these locations are in 0.5+ space, so yes, it's unreasonable to expect to get ganked there. * Public Channel: NEA *
Baldour Ngarr	Posted - 2004.02.01 17:39:00 - [19] Quote: Most of these locations are in 0.5+ space, so yes, it's unreasonable to expect to get ganked there. You don't get ganked at the ones in 0.5+ space. It's a reasonable complaint, that CCP should have these missions send you to random points. I'm not sure it's so reasonable to accuse the PKers of exploiting, if they are bookmarking a place of interest. There's other people go there, besides agent-runners; they can easily claim they were camping to catch the place-of-interest explorers, and you were just unlucky. _______ "Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age."
EagleHawk RockClimber	Posted - 2004.02.01 18:11:00 - [20] PapaSmurf... How about a little fix for this sort of exploit.... You guys need to get real.

Ciber Wulf	Posted - 2004.02.02 00:43:00 - [21] Quote: What systems are being camped? If we keep the agent runners informed (even though it has to be from the sacrifice of someone else) we will keep these cheap PK'rs out of possible money and can keep our ships as well. Aunenen seems to be camped most nights. Tip: if you can avoid getting targeted by the guy in the blackbird, the others will not risk their ravens against an unjammed target. Quote: its no griefing either as they demanded a toll and a reasonable one for a cruiser pilot. 1mil or 500k would be more reasonable. If I paid 4 mil every time I had a mission at that location I would be destitute in under a day, while the pirates would all be jaunting around in their shiny ravens. Anyway, I refuse to pay ransom on general principle.
Drutort	Posted - 2004.02.02 00:53:00 - [22] reason i call this exploit is what others said... its not part of the mission, nor part of the game say as a gate or so... as others said this was for you to do missinos between NPC not PC... we are not there to kill PC ppl... there is risk already goingn through locations etc why it is an exploit should be quite simple, if the dev's wanted this then it would be obvious place and it would be stated publicly that PC's can interact with your mission and screw it up or what not... but as it stands and the very low reward it isnt worth it to do missions if PC pirates can camp them, and nobody else without the BM can come and help you. NOR can anyone else go to that area WITHOUT a BM to stop the PC pirates. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.02.02 04:35:00 - [23] Actually, There are at least 2 spots, for example, in Aurohunen, that are abandoned station/wrecked stargates. I've gone there a few times, when not doing missions, and they are most certainly not random locations (I bookmarked them during the missions). I'm surprised pirates haven't tried this before, actually. Again, it's a 0.4 system. NOBODY is forcing you to go there. You are CHOOSING to go there to do a mission, and you should be adequately prepared to deal with WHATEVER threats the mission presents you with. Your agent gives you a JOB, and it's YOUR responsibility to carry it out. If you cannot handle it, decline the mission or get another agent. That's what I did. Or, bring friends with you to cover you while you run your mission there. I've done that too. There ARE ways around the "problem". It's a Massively Multiplayer game. TALK to people. Bring friends. There's gotta be SOMEBODY who would LOVE a chance to kill a couple of pirate Ravens on this server, I'm sure. Just as the station/mission location is a trap for you, YOU could be a trap for them. Use your brain.
Drutort	Posted - 2004.02.02 06:25:00 - [24] Quote: Actually, There are at least 2 spots, for example, in Aurohunen, that are abandoned station/wrecked stargates. I've gone there a few times, when not doing missions, and they are most certainly not random locations (I bookmarked them during the missions). I'm surprised pirates haven't tried this before, actually. Again, it's a 0.4 system. NOBODY is forcing you to go there. You are CHOOSING to go there to do a mission, and you should be adequately prepared to deal with WHATEVER threats the mission presents you with. Your agent gives you a JOB, and it's YOUR responsibility to carry it out. If you cannot handle it, decline the mission or get another agent. That's what I did. Or, bring friends with you to cover you while you run your mission there. I've done that too. There ARE ways around the "problem". It's a Massively Multiplayer game. TALK to people. Bring friends. There's gotta be SOMEBODY who would LOVE a chance to kill a couple of pirate Ravens on this server, I'm sure. Just as the station/mission location is a trap for you, YOU could be a trap for them. Use your brain. yes those 2 are ok im my book but the others that are talked about here are NOT... and for these missions the agents should warn you, and should pay you more since its open to anyone and stuff... but THEY DONT i wouldnt mind 1 or 2 missions like that so long as its worth the risk but its not at all, its same as any other mission. support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Grey Area	Posted - 2004.02.02 10:18:00 - [25] Edited by: Grey Area on 02/02/2004 10:20:41 I am not going to complain about the pirating per se, but this situation does give the lie to Papa Smurf's statement that "missions were giving too high a reward for little or not risk" (not word for word, but that was the sense of it). Something else that CCP did NOT take into account when they nerfed the mission rewards.... ========================================= * I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. * =========================================
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2004.02.02 14:43:00 - [26] Edited by: Randuin MaraL on 02/02/2004 14:44:47 Quote: PapaSmurf... How about a little fix for this sort of exploit.... You guys need to get real. This is "no" exploit. Otherwise you have to call getting ganked while mining in 0.0 or trading in 0.2 an exploit, too. ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.02.02 18:13:00 - [27] Quote: This is "no" exploit. Otherwise you have to call getting ganked while mining in 0.0 or trading in 0.2 an exploit, too. Exactly. It's just dumb that you get paid crap for the risk. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Destin Tyr	Posted - 2004.02.02 19:31:00 - [28] Having lost my Rifter to a spawn camping pirate in Aunenen last night, I'm of two minds on this issue. I think it's good pirate tactics to camp a spawn, being as pirates are no good, stinky, slinking pond scum anyway (from an RP perspective). However, kill missions sending you to the same location time after time is pretty lame (also from an RP perspective). You'd think that the Gurista's (or whoever) would learn that everytime they make an incursion at X spot in space, they get blasted. Of course if the PC pirate that podded me last night didn't learn that it isn't healthy to hang around in the same spot you are trying to extort people to pay up or be podded (he got podded himself early this morning, lol), then I don't guess the NPC pirates would learn that lesson either. All in all though, I think making the kill missions spawns more random would be a good thing, especially the level 1 mission spawns, like the one I was at. It's mostly going to be noobs in a cheap frigate taking level 1 missions, and they don't stand much of a chance against a pc pirate in a cruiser. It might even be enough to make some leave the game if they take their new Frigate that they just spent all of their hard earned isk on on what they think is going to be a fairly safe mission only to get ganked by 733t Pie-Rat dOOd when they show up at the mission bookmark. Besides, what new player has 4 million isk? I havn't even been able to get my balance over 500k yet. -In space, no one can hear you whine
Drutort	Posted - 2004.02.03 01:11:00 - [29] Quote: Edited by: Randuin MaraL on 02/02/2004 14:44:47 Quote: PapaSmurf... How about a little fix for this sort of exploit.... You guys need to get real. This is "no" exploit. Otherwise you have to call getting ganked while mining in 0.0 or trading in 0.2 an exploit, too. problem is those belts show up to everyone, the BM's that you get for these missions are supposed to be random... as in hence they were spoted and you were given there location, i find it funny that the location is always the same, so stupid from RP point and boring... I have no problem when you get those other missions to go to abandoned stations or other area's were anyone can warp to etc... the way it was meant to work was that you get the bp, and not keep it again and it was supposed to be random, or else it would be public info support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Viduus	Posted - 2004.02.03 01:22:00 - [30] Yeah, I thought everyone had noticed in the new system menus: -> Asteroid Belts -> Planets -> Stations -> JumpGates -> Mission Bookmarks Good for PKing suckers... _____ My Places...: _____ -> This Guy Has A Mission BM -> Warp to location -> 60km * Public Channel: NEA *



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