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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.06 14:30:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Lord Loom
I've gotta agree with welsh wizard - at least people like Goum make their arguments against Caldari boosts appear intelligent and well-funded...
I am not trying to argue against Caldari boosts[except for more long range damage for the eagle and vulture]. I am trying to argue against this caldari boost with regards to low mass and higher speed.
The longest ranged ships in the game need to be the slowest. The ships that need to dictate range the fastest and the ships that need to get up close the second fastest.
To achieve this, in order of fastest to slowest you need to look like
Minmitar
Gallente
Amarr
Caldari
I think the moa and ferox are low on DPS for their range and need 1 and 2 turrets respectivly. I think the Moa and Caracal needs more drones, the Caracal needs another low slot and the Ferox another high and mid. I think HAM and Torpedo fitting needs to be reduced to at least 10% under hml/cruise fitting and i think that missile speeds need to be increased by 2-3 times with a commensurate reduction in flight time.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.06 15:16:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Goumindong on 06/08/2007 15:16:56
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
1. Nobody wants more speed for Caldari. We want more AGILITY and less MASS.
2. So if I am the longest ranged sniper, I am not allowed to be able to keep that range (I am the slowest ship). But the middle range ship IS allowed to keep its range. So my range advantage ends up in a short timespan advantage while the middle range ship gets all the benefits of speed and damage vs the close range ship ? wow.
Or did I misunderstand anything ?
IMO range = keeping it. Range you cannot keep is worth nothing (well almost).
Less mass means more speed.
If you can hold your range then you have an "i-win" button. Especialy since you dont need to bother with tracking.
If you outrange your opponent, for the most part, you can keep them to zero damage. Minmatar cannot do this with their weapons. They will outdamage gallente, but not out-track, so that gallente are still doing damage as they fight to get closer. With caldari they would have near perfect damage avoidance due to range and tracking.
This is why its so important that you can overtake amarr and caldari ships.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.06 22:41:00 -
[3]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
About 3 minutes of firing before capout with a heavy injector, because thats when you run out of cap boosters.
You do realize that other ships have to reload.. yes?
Their entire cargo bay in 3 minutes? That is fairly impressive.
Also, after the ship is out of cap, it can only fire 1 gun without running out again.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.07 14:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Fager
But well you see mate, Caldari missiles are with an exception of blasters and AC the next shortrange wpn. It works at close and mid range. Therefor Caldari has a great need to dictate range with their missile ships. Also HAMs are even shorter, hardly even usable in Mid range (25+ imo). Caldari missileboats needs its Agility/mass even more for these systems.
Pulse lasers are the "long range" weapon of the short range weaponry
HAMS outranges pulse lasers by 30km on the top ned.
HAMS double the range of pulse lasers with short range weaponry and do about the same damage with tech 1 missiles
Rage HAMs have similar DPS to short range pulse lasers and range
Heavy Missiles outrange pulse lasers by holy lord, a lot
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.07 16:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Chrysalis D'lilth
Most caldari missile ships can choose their damage type IF they are willing to take a 25% nerf to their dps.
Otherwise they are stuck with kinetic.
Most other races get 2 damage types at optimal damage bonus' - gallente kin/thermal, amarr EM/thermal, minimatar kinetic/explosive.
Sure a minimatar can do EM/thermal damage, they just fit laser turrets - which is the same nerf to their dps as most caldari missile boats switching out kinetic missiles for another type.
Actualy its much more. They would lose a turret, a damage bonus, gain a ridiculous amount of cap use.
And most importantly. It cannot be done without refiting.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.08 02:35:00 -
[6]
Of all the short range weapons, missiles have the longest range. That makes them "Long range". Or even "the longest of ranges".
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.08 03:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Originally by: Goumindong
Of all the short range weapons, missiles have the longest range. That makes them "Long range". Or even "the longest of ranges".
Please factor in flight time when talking about 'short range' (unguided) missiles at long range. Not only is it not terribly realistic since the target will be destroyed or have warped away by the time the missiles could reach the target... but from the standpoint of raw DPS the flight time on unguided missiles at 'longer' ranges has a tremendously negative impact on DPS.
Please see my post on this subject -
Thread located here.
Yes, i know. But it is the longest range, outranging even pulse lasers with scorch in pretty much all variations. And the long range versions do do considerably more damage than the long range possibilities from the other weapons[and without range mods either]. So saying that the ships need to be as agile as the short range ships is disingenious.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.08 03:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tovarishch
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Tovarishch
Originally by: Goumindong
Of all the short range weapons, missiles have the longest range. That makes them "Long range". Or even "the longest of ranges".
Please factor in flight time when talking about 'short range' (unguided) missiles at long range. Not only is it not terribly realistic since the target will be destroyed or have warped away by the time the missiles could reach the target... but from the standpoint of raw DPS the flight time on unguided missiles at 'longer' ranges has a tremendously negative impact on DPS.
Please see my post on this subject -
Thread located here.
Yes, i know. But it is the longest range, outranging even pulse lasers with scorch in pretty much all variations. And the long range versions do do considerably more damage than the long range possibilities from the other weapons[and without range mods either]. So saying that the ships need to be as agile as the short range ships is disingenious.
Where did I say 'that the ships need to be as agile as the short range ships'? In fact, I've argued against that if you'd read my thread.
You didnt, the guy i replied to did, i was qualifying why i made the statement.
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.08 07:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ogul
Please go ahead and do that. And then you tell me how to get a dual rep armor tank to fit with the terribly low powergrid a Caldari ship offers. (4600 power for a dual large rep II, a raven has less than 12000 - try to fit torps with that)
You cant with 2 ACRs. But you can run 1 with a plate or 2 plates easily enough. Cruises fit with AWU 5.
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