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Azirapheal
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:33:00 -
[1]
posting with my main here.
after a fairly long career in pew pewing and making bears lives hell one thing ive systematically noticed every time and something which seems to be a disproportionate is insurance payouts on t2 ships.
now there is no way in hell i could offer insurance on such ships that are going to be used as combat vessels without operating at a loss or without some dodgy scheme, so im not even going to pretend to.
my trading char - Azirapheala - has been rather successful, reaping in large amounts of isk from savvy market investments which im investing into a module insurance system.
everyone knows that modules are where ships are pricey, whether rigs or faction kit, or w/e
so what i am proposing is as follows
a fair system of insurance, for people that arent taking unecessary risks, which will be enacted as follows.
typical insurance - 30% of module cost, isk generated from this would be invested in fast selling items and in GTC trade generating funds to cover.
if in the event that gtc's and my trading couldnt cover i have 14.3 bill at my disposal for the test
for which i need volounteers!
im looking for 10-20 players with any level of experience in game to help me stress test the system - and if all goes well ill open a corp to deal specifically with this!
if your interested in helping please evemail this character with A) modules you would be interested in insuring B) your area of operations.
much regards, Az
 Originally by: CCP Wrangler
you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
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Elipsis
Gallente
The Mission Guys
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:44:00 -
[2]
You'd have to be real careful about your numbers to make this work.
Like a real insurance company, you'd have the option to label "high risk" individuals and charge them more... unfortunately, as a player run company there is always the chance you'll take the money and just bolt. 
-...
CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys |
Doctor Fruitloop
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:47:00 -
[3]
Question - my Hulk equiped with Pithii type A small sheild booster and 3 T2 Strip miners is popped on the job by a gank squad in a login trap.
How do I prove this ship ever existed or if it did - that it was lost or was not reimbursed by Devs in a dysync or lag or node death?
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:47:00 -
[4]
you could give me some money for my dread:)
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Sir Heavy
Dragonian Freelancers Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:51:00 -
[5]
I had a similar idea pop up, but vanish right away.
Quote:
a fair system of insurance, for people that arent taking unecessary risks, which will be enacted as follows.
Judging your client first, Time and Research, trustable, not reckless. Time = isk.
Quote:
typical insurance - 30% of module cost, isk generated from this would be invested in fast selling items and in GTC trade generating funds to cover.
So you're saying, GTC trading is a constant income. No need for this insurance then. You're taking unnecessary risks...
And then some things i could foresee:
fake killmails
insure before fleetbattle
And above all, the credability of your product and the player behind it.
Honestly... i'll be your 19th man aboard if you pull this off, call me when u get 18 players that team up...
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Azirapheal
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:55:00 -
[6]
obviously i could only remiburse insured modules from a killmail.
and since it will be done the slow and clunky way untill i set up a dedicated website and database capable of handling insurance applications for modules
im primarilly intending this service for those that are generally in safer space - walking into klepto territory on autopilot would void it. but getting barbequed by guristas rats would equate to a claim
and @ the hulk pilot, yes id insure it, but youd be paying me 30-40% of the module cost. and id expect the killmail to be forwarded immediatly.
its something i want to try tbh while i have the ability to and hence the reason im looking for a small group of volounteers to help test.
minimal effort on your parts and im obviously looking for people that are interested in having some insurance on their modules for a trial period while i work out the kinks in the system
Az
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.05 22:56:00 -
[7]
EVE completely lacks the means to any player-driven insurance systems.
In order to operate at a profit, you need to have more income as spending.
How will you select customers ?
What's stopping me from claiming I have a 100-mil ISK T2 ship+fitings, pay you some ISK, then claim I lost it and demand a refund LARGER as what I just paid you ?
People that don't risk their ships/modules don't need/want an insurance, and people that DO need/want an insurance will be the ones that risk their ships/modules in the first place.
The first type of people won't buy your insurance, the second type of people, YOU won't want to take the insurance monet from them.
And last but not least, what guarantees do the insured have that you won't just take the money and bolt after you got the business started/rolling and with a decent amount of ISK in its coffers ?
You don't know (or rather said CAN'T know) wether or not a certain individual actually lost something unless you have access to his account (which is forbidden by the EULA) or ask for screenshots (which can be faked), so you pretty much have to make it a "trust-based" system (and I don't need to tell you how "great" such a system will work in EVE).
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
DubanFP
Caldari
Four Rings
D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.05 23:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: DubanFP on 05/08/2007 23:00:44
nice scam.. Almost seems like it's legitiment if it wasn't so utterly ubsurd, and impossible to prove that either you or the insurance payer is lieing or not.
______________________
DubanFP> I stopped capitalizing the g in goonswarm a little while back. I find they no longer deserved the little bit of extra effort required to press the shift key. |
Azirapheal
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.05 23:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sir Heavy
I had a similar idea pop up, but vanish right away.
Judging your client first, Time and Research, trustable, not reckless. Time = isk.
So you're saying, GTC trading is a constant income. No need for this insurance then. You're taking unnecessary risks...
And then some things i could foresee:
fake killmails
insure before fleetbattle
And above all, the credability of your product and the player behind it.
I myself have always dealt fairly, even when ive been on the sucker end of something before, due to the way applications for such insurance would be sorted and due to the fact that i havea life outside of eve there will be a delay in application to approved
hence minimisation of "quick before a lagfest fight"
and of course if someone tells me that they are insuring it for highsec/occaisional losec and an hour later they lsoe it in deep 00 it would bea fraudulent claim and denied.
thinking of a sample form a s follows
Modules for Insuring @ 100%
A, B ,C, D, E, F, G etc
Time spent in
Highsec X%
losec X%
Wild 00 X%
secure/alliance 00 X%
Ship Equipped to//transported in
Request made 00.01EVETIME
recieve reply from myself confirming insurance active upon payment of X amount
(have just set up spreadsheet to calculate costs)
isk recieved - insurance active from moment of payment for 3 weeks
its a bit clunkier, but it avoids knee jerk insurances and means that peolpe can plan ahead if they are transporting anything.
anyway, small to begin with :)
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
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Tharrn
Amarr
Epitoth Fleetyards
Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.08.05 23:52:00 -
[10]
Hmm, killmails can easily be faked...
So what stops me from insuring a ship (or a faction setup) that never existed, having it blown up by some fictional aggressor (potentially an alt even) and claiming the insurance payout by sending you a faked killmail? Looks like a good profit margin.
Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
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Azirapheal
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.06 00:02:00 -
[11]
true.
faked killmails are going to be a problem, if anyone has any suggestions as to avoiding or bypassing that issue, pelase drop me a line
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.06 00:06:00 -
[12]
Screenshot of you dying. In the ship. I don't think killmails are going to get you anywhere. Followed by a screenshot of the killmail sitting in the persons inbox.
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Azirapheal
Amarr
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.06 00:09:00 -
[13]
dax - would that be easy for someone to do - i suppose it would be if the stuff you were insuring was worth while eh.
hmm im going to look into the RL ú of setting up appropriate DB's etc that can handle it, otherwise its going to involve email clients aswell
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.06 18:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tharrn
Hmm, killmails can easily be faked...
So what stops me from insuring a ship (or a faction setup) that never existed, having it blown up by some fictional aggressor (potentially an alt even) and claiming the insurance payout by sending you a faked killmail? Looks like a good profit margin.
losses should have to be posted on a PUBLIC killboard. so you face eve public ridcule.
HAHAHAH you lost YET another faction fitted ship!
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KIATheClash
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.06 18:25:00 -
[15]
Sounds like a really nice idea , but im afraid people will try cam you out with fake killmails .
Also building up trust from customers ..
Maybe work around soemthing so CCP can hop along with the idea and chip in a hand in soem way to help creat e a more customer service based profession
------------------------
Mods this is currently my main .
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Lady Beauvoir
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Posted - 2007.08.06 18:53:00 -
[16]
Azirapheal, I find your idea interesting, but I believe it is ultimately flawed.
Insurance, in the real world, is rather cheap. The reason for it is that it is rather uncommon for a house to burn down, for example. Thus, in order for the insurance company to earn money, they sell many insurances and statistically only a few of those houses will burn down. Then the costs of replacing those houses is covered by the payments of the multitude of customers who did not lose their houses and the earnings from the money paid by the customers which is invested by the insurance company.
However, in EVE, losing ships is the norm. In order for the insurance company to break even they would either have to:
a) have insanely high insurance payments
b) have an insanely high return on investment on the insured money
As most IPOs in EVE only offer a 10% dividend each month, it does not seem plausible to achieve a huge ROI. Thus, the insurance payments would have to be huge, close to 95% of the actual value of the insured ship and modules. Then, why would one bother with insurance?
Those pilots who lose ships lose them on a regular basis - it's unavoidable in large engagements. They would have to pay insanely high payments. On the other hand, pilots who rarely lose ships would have very little need for insurance, right?
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.06 19:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lady Beauvoir
On the other hand, pilots who rarely lose ships would have very little need for insurance, right?
Not necessarily. Someone who rarely lost their ship would be more apt to have it fit with faction gear, or otherwise really pricey items.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.08.06 19:20:00 -
[18]
it would be nice if CCP allowed us Automatic Eve-Mail forwarding (max: 3 other people).
Example:
1) I set Azirapheal and my CEO as forwarding eve-mail addresses for all CONCORD eve-mails.
2) My ship is destroyed. Azirapheal, my CEO, and myself, get the CONCORD eve-mail.
3) ???
4) Profit
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Valerian Xavier
Moloko.
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Posted - 2007.08.06 19:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Feng Schui
it would be nice if CCP allowed us Automatic Eve-Mail forwarding (max: 3 other people).
Example:
1) I set Azirapheal and my CEO as forwarding eve-mail addresses for all CONCORD eve-mails.
2) My ship is destroyed. Azirapheal, my CEO, and myself, get the CONCORD eve-mail.
3) ???
4) Profit
they generate enough lag as it is
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Sanctuary
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Posted - 2007.08.06 20:29:00 -
[20]
A better solution to the killmail and fakability issue would be to remove killmails entirely, and make kills listed on your character info page. For the average player it shows date, time of kill and ship type. For corpmates and those on the buddy list it shows who did the kill, with what and with what modules.
That'd be impossible to fake.
SEARCh- we find sites for you! |
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Guilliman R
Gallente
PRO Space Hunters
Federation Of united Corps
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Posted - 2007.08.06 20:29:00 -
[21]
Trade forums anyone, :(
---sig---
Carebear for life (unless I am in the advantage and have 99% chance of winning(, hey 1% chance to lose, thats risk right, good!)!
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2007.08.06 20:33:00 -
[22]
Very interesting idea. Always good to see someone give something new a go!
Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank |
Maxpie
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2007.08.06 21:18:00 -
[23]
You could require that the kill mail be sent to you within 2 minutes of the kill.
He put... creatures... in our bodies... to control our minds. He made us... say lies... do things. |
MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.06 21:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Screenshot of you dying. In the ship. I don't think killmails are going to get you anywhere. Followed by a screenshot of the killmail sitting in the persons inbox.
Yes, because no one can fake a screen shot with photoshop.
"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim."
- Bertrand Russell |
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