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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.08.08 07:14:00 -
[31]
Invention had its golden age, I made my lot making Heavy Missile Launcher IIs for 2 mil a piece and selling them for 8-10 a piece, netted about 600 mil in profit in less than a week.
Now it's kinda scattered, profitable items come and go, but inventors will push themselves out of the good markets, and then they'll rise up and become profitable again, kinda likea wave. It's just having the equipment available to manufacture during the flow's rather than the ebb's
Improve Market Competition! |
MysteryZ
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Posted - 2007.08.08 07:19:00 -
[32]
Sometimes things, just happen and are hence random.
That is, unless you want to subscribe to the idea that everything is pre-ordained and give up any notion of you having free will - something the majority of the scientific and philosophical community do not support.
Randomness in EvE is not a problem, in fact, its more real.
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FingerThief
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.08 07:29:00 -
[33]
Edited by: FingerThief on 08/08/2007 07:33:13
 Originally by: Benn Helmsman
First you need to have full run t1 bpc to get 1 run out of an invented t2 bpo without a decryptor right? That will add a lot of research time or cost to your invention jobs.
Nope, you do not need to have a full run Tech I BPC. A 300 run Tech I BPC ( max 300 production units on the original ) will invent a 10 run Tech II BPC. If the max production units is 1500 and u use a 300 run copy you get 3 unit Tech II BPC aso asf.
20 invention runs on Cap Recharger I BPC, 300 runs, ME/PE is irrelevant when inventing did result in 12x 10 run Tech II BPC at ME/PE -4
20 invention runs on Ballistic Control I BPC, 300 runs, etc did result in 14x 3 run Tech II BPC at ME/PE -4
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Second: Getting 4 successfull out of 10 tries is a very very optimistic guess, even with the +30% chance decryptor and a base item, i had less then 25% success on inventing cerberus.
Vexxor - Ishtar: 10 runs per batch, outcome 2/4/4/6
Stabber - Vagabond: 10 runs per batch, outcome 2/5
Covetor - Hulk: 10 runs per batch, outcome 1/4/4/5
Higher skills = better chance
I do not ASSUME figures ... I use only personal experience.
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Third: Even if you assume 4 out of 10 are succesfull, you wont really make it worth it. 400M-140M leaves 260M. If we assume that you have to pay nearly 30M in ressources to build it with -4ME we still have 140M left. Well that looks pretty nice at the first but it is hardly making up the risk and time invested. You need more than 2 days for one batch of invention and another 1 1/2 days to build the ships.
That means you use all research capacities and 40% manufacturing of a maxed out character to get a payout of about 50M a day, and thats if you are extremly lucky.
One word: Diversify
FT
PS: I only need to make net 150M ... that was the cost of invention. Having a foot in the door selling 5 Vagabonds on an empty market within 1h from putting them up for 130M each ... that's pure satisfaction.
PPS: I won't go into details as to how to keep the Adv Material prices low to build still efficiently since that is not OT.
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari
Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.08.08 07:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: FingerThief
Edited by: FingerThief on 08/08/2007 07:33:13
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
First you need to have full run t1 bpc to get 1 run out of an invented t2 bpo without a decryptor right? That will add a lot of research time or cost to your invention jobs.
Nope, you do not need to have a full run Tech I BPC. A 300 run Tech I BPC ( max 300 production units on the original ) will invent a 10 run Tech II BPC. If the max production units is 1500 and u use a 300 run copy you get 3 unit Tech II BPC aso asf.
20 invention runs on Cap Recharger I BPC, 300 runs, ME/PE is irrelevant when inventing did result in 12x 10 run Tech II BPC at ME/PE -4
20 invention runs on Ballistic Control I BPC, 300 runs, etc did result in 14x 3 run Tech II BPC at ME/PE -4
I was talking about ship invention, it is a whole other story. You get only 1 run out of a maxed BPC.
Originally by: FingerThief
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Second: Getting 4 successfull out of 10 tries is a very very optimistic guess, even with the +30% chance decryptor and a base item, i had less then 25% success on inventing cerberus.
Vexxor - Ishtar: 10 runs per batch, outcome 2/4/4/6
Stabber - Vagabond: 10 runs per batch, outcome 2/5
Covetor - Hulk: 10 runs per batch, outcome 1/4/4/5
Higher skills = better chance
I do not ASSUME figures ... I use only personal experience.
Well my numbers are with Caldari Encryption 5, ME 4, CSE 4, +30% chance decryptor and caracal as base item. I stopped training, since it looks pretty much like a waste of over 2M SP just to be able to make Caldari T2 ships.
Originally by: FingerThief
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
Third: Even if you assume 4 out of 10 are succesfull, you wont really make it worth it. 400M-140M leaves 260M. If we assume that you have to pay nearly 30M in ressources to build it with -4ME we still have 140M left. Well that looks pretty nice at the first but it is hardly making up the risk and time invested. You need more than 2 days for one batch of invention and another 1 1/2 days to build the ships.
That means you use all research capacities and 40% manufacturing of a maxed out character to get a payout of about 50M a day, and thats if you are extremly lucky.
One word: Diversify
Well i would use 2 words: multiple acounts
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.08 07:46:00 -
[35]
For me the gain building modules is about 20%, good (better than T1) but nothing staggering.
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Norwood Franskly
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Posted - 2007.08.08 07:49:00 -
[36]
I've just started getting into invention and would not recommend it for new characters, getting standings to run R&D agents to get data cores takes a heap of time plus a lot of the good agents (at least for Minmatar) are in Low Sec pirate heavy areas. Getting the tech 1 BPO's to make copies to use in invention costs heaps (at least for a 3 month old character its heaps). Finding lab slots to Research\Copy\invent is almost impossible (luckily one of the corps in my alliance has a lab at a POS I can use), I am paranoid about my BPO's going missing using a player owned lab though...
Ice Harvesters have been my most lucrative item, even then barely any profit in it.
I'm going to stick with tech 1 items for a while longer I think.
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FingerThief
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.08 08:07:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman
...
We both have valid points ( I suppose at least mine are and I acknowledge yours ).
I do invention to have a variety of Tech II modules and ships avail to myself, corp and friends without necessarily purchasing them at highly overcharged market prices and to avoid Jita in general ( that HAS to be a valid point ).
Market mogules and Invention mogules ... yes. Multiple chars and / or accounts help a lot there.
FT
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.08.08 08:17:00 -
[38]
It seems CCP balanced invention out very well (except for the ships maybe, but then... hehe)!
Datacore sellers are happy, Inventors are happy, traders are happy, customers are happy, moon miners + reactors are happy. Only t2 bpo holders might be a bit annoyed - but they still earn good money!
I always said that it needs some time for invention to swing into an equilibrium and I am proved right and all those people who moaned in the beginning and yelled at CCP were all wrong!
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Steini OFSI
Gallente
Minigame
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Posted - 2007.08.08 08:48:00 -
[39]
May I just point out that t2 battleships have been promised and there is no BPO going to be given out for them, btw... I should've bought up the skills nessecary before saying this 
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2007.08.08 08:52:00 -
[40]
I've found that all the *popular* T2 items are now selling at such low prices that it is barely profitable to invent them. You'll do very well each time you succeed, but on average you'll just about break even.
Invention was only ever going to be really profitable while prices were in free-fall from the old levels. I made sure I got in while it still was; there's not much still left that's worth pursuing, and the few remaining items are those that are unusually difficult to produce. Anyone who joined the game this year has missed the T2 boat and might as well go into T1 production.
It would be interesting to see what happened if a new invention-only item appeared for which there was a very high demand (something as popular as a damage control, say). The nearest things we've had to anything like that so far have been the T2 sentry/repair drones, but few people can use them and they haven't sold terribly well.
The only glimmer of hope on the horizon is that perhaps Tech 3 gear will be invention-only from the outset, but even that would eventually go the same way unless some sort of restriction on supply was enforced.
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Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.08 09:54:00 -
[41]
Originally by: jam6549
if i were them i wouldn't say how well i was doing. especially if i was doing really well - would attract competition!
If I were "them" I'd be saying I am not doing well if I were doing pretty well so that everyone would think they'd not be doing pretty well. Or maybe they'd anticipate that and I'd say I'd be doing pretty well even if I do pretty well. And maybe I am not even one of "them", who knows.
Aaaah, the ancient art of seeding missinformation.
p.s. I am doing pretty well.
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Steini OFSI
Gallente
Minigame
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Posted - 2007.08.08 09:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
Originally by: jam6549
if i were them i wouldn't say how well i was doing. especially if i was doing really well - would attract competition!
If I were "them" I'd be saying I am not doing well if I were doing pretty well so that everyone would think they'd not be doing pretty well. Or maybe they'd anticipate that and I'd say I'd be doing pretty well even if I do pretty well. And maybe I am not even one of "them", who knows.
Aaaah, the ancient art of seeding missinformation.
p.s. I am doing pretty well.
Your pseudo ninja mind trick didn't work on me
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.08.08 10:04:00 -
[43]
Originally by: cal nereus
Edited by: cal nereus on 08/08/2007 02:31:54
Chance is a good thing IMHO.
I hate games that are 100% predictable, and the simple application of mathematics solves all problems. There should at least be some luck involved.
do you keep that opinion after 40 failed ship inventions in a row?
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KEEP TRY!!!
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Zeknichov
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.08 10:22:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Zeknichov on 08/08/2007 10:22:46
Chance is just another variable to calculate when you do invention. All it means is that you need a bigger bankroll. It's like gambling. If you go play bj and count cards you have a 51% chance of winning the hand. However if you go in with a small bank roll you could lose 20 hands in a row and be out all your cash and not make any money. However if you go in with a large bankroll you can shrug off the loss and continue playing because eventually probability will catch up with itself and you will make around 1% profit at the end of the day. The same concept goes with invention. CCP gave invention a chance variable because they wanted people to only get into invention who had large bankrolls.
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Drizit
Amarr
Lonely out here
Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.08 18:07:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Zeknichov
<snip>
CCP gave invention a chance variable because they wanted people to only get into invention who had large bankrolls.
Kinda defeats the object really People want to use invention to make isk. If they already have huge bankrolls, it only results in making the rich even richer while the less well off stand little chance of hitting the big time.
Those in highsec who are scratching around to make a crust to afford the move to lowsec are the losers... AGAIN!
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Fon Revedhort
Aeria Gloris Inc
United Legion
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Posted - 2007.08.08 22:07:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zeknichov
Edited by: Zeknichov on 08/08/2007 10:22:46
...CCP gave invention a chance variable because they wanted people to only get into invention who had large bankrolls.
Yeah, I got it.
CCP introduced invention so that tech2 BPO owners could produce more goods and get a bit more rich? 
How cute!
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