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CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.09 20:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Pottsey link and explanation I disagree. Those are not strong hints. It is a part of a story and in no way is it a hint towards the original humans. Anarchyyt explains it well.
Spicy Monkey HOOTERZ INC.	Posted - 2007.08.09 20:56:00 - [32] The Joves probably already have the technology to get back to our home world, they are just too stuck up to share.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.09 20:58:00 - [33] Originally by: Spicy Monkey The Joves probably already have the technology to get back to our home world, they are just too stuck up to share. Doubt it - if they had it they would probably be using it, and we would probably notice, hehe. Even the Jove couldn't keep something like that secret for long. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:28:00 - [34] Edited by: Pottsey on 09/08/2007 21:31:16 ôI disagree. Those are not strong hints. It is a part of a story and in no way is it a hint towards the original humans. Anarchyyt explains it well.ö I donÆt agree with Anarchyyt they are not a splinter of the Jove there are to many problems with that theory. If they are not original humans how can they be so evolved? How can they be so technology advance? Saying that I could well be wrong and they are not original humans but if not, who are they? Original humans so far are the best theory on who they are. They tech level would be about right for original humans, they have evolved beyond the Jove which would also be right for original humans. ôHowever, with the amount of information, it is hard to say 100% that they are their own race, and didn't splinter from something (like the Jove).ö They couldnÆt have splinted from the Jove as they are far to advance in not just one area but lots of areas. If they were only a small amount more advance then the Jove I could believe it but if you read about all the things they can do that the Jove cannot its clear they are a more advance race. The Enheduanni are the main reason the Jove keep out of Empire space. You really think a small splinter group could keep back the hole Jove empire? The Enheduanni can remotely take over our ships. They can teleport around in a way the Jove cannot even understand, yet alone come close to doing them self. Enheduanni can remotely stimulate neural pathways assigned to the audio functions of a humanÆs brain causing pilots to hear and see what the Enheduanni want. They have mastery of genetic engineering enough to unlock the precise workings of the human brain something the Jove cannot do. That doesnÆt sound to me like a Jove splitter group. How could a splitter group advance that far beyound the main Jove empire? I didnÆt get the impression they are small, the opposite in fact large enough to keep the Jove empire at bay. Then again perhaps they are small and dont have many ships due to the energy it takes to get from Earth to Eve space. If they are not original humans we need to come up with a new better theory on who they really are. EDIT: I wasnÆt just basing my ideas on just that one story. Read all the storeys thereÆs something going on in the background. Passive shield tanking guide click here
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:35:00 - [35] Well, in one part, they could've split with them at any time. They never mention when they first started "fighting" the Order, or when they even first learned about them. However, we do see that they can wait a long time. Installing people and waiting their whole lives for their purpose. So that would mean if they did split, they either conquered the Jovian Disease, or what is more likely, it happend before it. But then again, they could've had some amazing insight. I mean, the Jove value knowledge above all us. Maybe a small group of them learned something, and that knowledge made them into demi-gods. But that power, like most power, made them evil. If they are as incredibly powerful as we've been told, then it wouldn't have to take a large amount of them to control the entire galaxy. If one person has god-like powers, then why would there need to be many of them? The main issue is that we know so little that most of it is guess work. I would love to have Tony Gonzales post here and answer some questions. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:40:00 - [36] Edited by: Pottsey on 09/08/2007 21:42:57 Further evidence Enheduanni are not a Jove splinter group. Jove donÆt count the Enheduanni as human but they count them self as human. Enheduanni donÆt count us as the same species as them but we count Jove as human and the same species. ôAddictions,ö the voice hissed. ôYou and the hopeless addictions of your species.ö Enheduanni talking. Jove talking ôThe OrderÆs immense power is a menace even to us,ö DoesnÆt sound like a small group to me. ôThe war against the Order demands all of our efforts. And to restrict their manipulation of power within the races, we are going to withdraw from the Geminate and Vale of the Silent regions. Then we will destroy the stargates bridging faction space with our own.ö ôTheir design?ö Baer said, angered. ôWhy not just conquer us outright by use of force?ö ôBecause they desire for you to embrace them on your own free will,ö Grious replied. Sounds like they could conquer us outright but choose not to. Surly if they are small the Jove would have said they couldnÆt conquer you. EDIT: Going argue they are not Evil as well. They want us to embrace them on our own free will instead of conquering us with force. I donÆt think they are good either somewhere in-between like Caldari or Gallante empires. Passive shield tanking guide click here
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:42:00 - [37] But that could easily mean that they have "evolved" beyond being human. Or they simply think they are so much better than them, that they are no longer human, but something else. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:51:00 - [38] ôOr they simply think they are so much better than them, that they are no longer human, but something else.ö Both the Jove and Enheduanni said the Enheduanni are a different species not just one statement but two, one from each race. I donÆt think itÆs a case the Enheduanni just think they are better if thatÆs the case the Jove would call them human or argent humans. ItÆs clear the Enheduanni are a different species. I just donÆt get how an evolved human thatÆs classed as a different species thatÆs massively more technology advance then the Jove could be a Jove splitter group. The Jove said the Enheduanni are ômassively powerfulö. How could they become that if they where just a Jove splinter group? Surely a splinter group would be dealt with and if not dealt with how do you explain the splinter group getting to a state that can take on the Jove empire? I often wondered if the Jove Disease wasnÆt the Enheduanni with there mastery of genetic engineering. Got Zero Evidence just a thought. The Jove seem to be Enheduanni's main enemy with Ammar at no2. Passive shield tanking guide click here
CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:54:00 - [39] Edited by: CaldariAdam on 09/08/2007 21:54:04 I did read all the stories and you are skipping the parts where they are said to be a small but indefinite amount.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:55:00 - [40] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 09/08/2007 21:59:35 Originally by: Pottsey The Enheduanni race used to be Human and are far in advance of the Jove. They play puppet masters and work behind the scenes influencing people of power. They even influence and trick the Jove in doing things. Only the Jove and high ranking government staff and a small number of pod pilots are aware of the Enheduanni race. My first impression when I read about The Enheduanni, was that it was a great way to role play the influence of the Dev's and GM's. Gave me a chuckle to hear them refered to as no longer human. Quote: No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:04:00 - [41] ôI did read all the stories and you are skipping the parts where they are said to be a small but indefinite amount.ö Where was this said and what do you mean? Passive shield tanking guide click here
Hazurr Amarr Death Gliders Legacy Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:10:00 - [42] Edited by: Hazurr on 09/08/2007 22:14:18 I have conclusive evidence! This also explains whiy the amarr are so monothiestic and fanatical! Fact: The imperium sent colonyships through the warp in the early era's! Fact: the Sisters of Eve worship a Warp overlay! Fact: they should there fore be considered heretics! Pessimism is the Foundation of survival
CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 09/08/2007 22:11:31 ôI did read all the stories and you are skipping the parts where they are said to be a small but indefinite amount.ö Where was this said and what do you mean? I dont recall The Order ever being called small but indefinite in power. Amount does not equal power and vice versa. There are MANY references to them being only a small number and more likely to be a group of beings rathern than even a small tribe. You agree that they are powerful, so stop assuming there must be many of them. No one is disagreeing that they control large events that make them seem like demi-gods.
Vincenzo Delloro Amarr Lux et Veritas	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 09/08/2007 21:42:57 Further evidence Enheduanni are not a Jove splinter group. Jove donÆt count the Enheduanni as human but they count them self as human. Enheduanni donÆt count us as the same species as them but we count Jove as human and the same species. ôAddictions,ö the voice hissed. ôYou and the hopeless addictions of your species.ö Enheduanni talking. Jove talking ôThe OrderÆs immense power is a menace even to us,ö DoesnÆt sound like a small group to me. ôThe war against the Order demands all of our efforts. And to restrict their manipulation of power within the races, we are going to withdraw from the Geminate and Vale of the Silent regions. Then we will destroy the stargates bridging faction space with our own.ö ôTheir design?ö Baer said, angered. ôWhy not just conquer us outright by use of force?ö ôBecause they desire for you to embrace them on your own free will,ö Grious replied. Sounds like they could conquer us outright but choose not to. Surly if they are small the Jove would have said they couldnÆt conquer you. EDIT: Going argue they are not Evil as well. They want us to embrace them on our own free will instead of conquering us with force. I donÆt think they are good either somewhere in-between like Caldari or Gallante empires. From Theodicy (pg 104): Quote: ôI donÆt care what you can or canÆt do,ö Viola pleaded, becoming desperate. ôI just want to understand those voices, Grious. What science gives them the ability to just invade my consciousness like that?ö He paused before answering. ôA mutation.ö Viola thought about his response for a moment, then found the JovianÆs pitch black eyes staring at hers. ôGriousàare the Enheduanni human?ö ôNot anymore.ö That would appear to be fairly conclusive.
CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Vincenzo Delloro Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 09/08/2007 21:42:57 Further evidence Enheduanni are not a Jove splinter group. Jove donÆt count the Enheduanni as human but they count them self as human. Enheduanni donÆt count us as the same species as them but we count Jove as human and the same species. ôAddictions,ö the voice hissed. ôYou and the hopeless addictions of your species.ö Enheduanni talking. Jove talking ôThe OrderÆs immense power is a menace even to us,ö DoesnÆt sound like a small group to me. ôThe war against the Order demands all of our efforts. And to restrict their manipulation of power within the races, we are going to withdraw from the Geminate and Vale of the Silent regions. Then we will destroy the stargates bridging faction space with our own.ö ôTheir design?ö Baer said, angered. ôWhy not just conquer us outright by use of force?ö ôBecause they desire for you to embrace them on your own free will,ö Grious replied. Sounds like they could conquer us outright but choose not to. Surly if they are small the Jove would have said they couldnÆt conquer you. EDIT: Going argue they are not Evil as well. They want us to embrace them on our own free will instead of conquering us with force. I donÆt think they are good either somewhere in-between like Caldari or Gallante empires. From Theodicy (pg 104): Quote: ôI donÆt care what you can or canÆt do,ö Viola pleaded, becoming desperate. ôI just want to understand those voices, Grious. What science gives them the ability to just invade my consciousness like that?ö He paused before answering. ôA mutation.ö Viola thought about his response for a moment, then found the JovianÆs pitch black eyes staring at hers. ôGriousàare the Enheduanni human?ö ôNot anymore.ö That would appear to be fairly conclusive. Thank you. I enjoyed that entire story and did not feel like skimming all of it for a few small sentences. There are a few others from that conversation and narrations too.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.10 00:04:00 - [46] Duh. I can't believe I forgot that. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 00:53:00 - [47] Option 6: the wormhole flung humanity to a corner of the universe so massively distantly removed from the Milky Way, that even triangulating our position RELATIVE to the Milky Way is impossible. Oh, and that pesky Dark Age and technological regression in the middle there hardly helps matters. The universe is a fething big place, and we're yet to fully map out or own solar system, let alone begin to comprehend the positioning of all the stars in our galaxy, or that of all the billions of other galaxies in the universe. Why complicate the backstory with crazy extra time travel or dimension-hopping mess? - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.10 02:26:00 - [48] I'm a lonely, insignificant speck on a has-been planet orbited by a cold, indifferent sun... Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.10 06:16:00 - [49] Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2007 06:21:30 ôAmount does not equal power and vice versa. There are MANY references to them being only a small number and more likely to be a group of beings rathern than even a small tribe.ö I donÆt recall any referenceÆs to them being a small number, they can take on all the Jove empire which doesnt sound small to me. Can you link and quote word for word from a source? How could a group of small beings get so powerful? There are referenceÆs to them being large like they could conquer us if they want. If a small group could gain that much powerfull surely a large empire like the Jove could as well? How do you explain that? I dont get how a small group, smaller then a tribe could take on 100's of millions of Jove if not trillions of Jove. How could a small group advance in science so far beyond the Jove? ôThat would appear to be fairly conclusive.ö The questions is was it a random mutation over time or as they are masters of genetic engineering did they improve them self with controlled mutations. They have been evolving them selfÆs to make them better then human. Or is it a physic mutation they get over time from being old humans? Telepathy could be another name for it. Passive shield tanking guide click here
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.10 06:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Pottsey How could a group of small beings get so powerful? God-like powers. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.10 06:35:00 - [51] öGod-like powers.ö My point is though how could a small group gain god-like powers? How could a small group advance there technology so far ahead of the Jove? So far that the Jove donÆt even understand how some of it works let alone start to use. The only answer I have to that is a large empire with resources. I could be wrong and they are small only time will tell. Just personally I donÆt think a small group makes sence. I see it like below We have two options. Option1: They are a large empire of more then one planet thatÆs older then the Jove which explains why they are technology advance and they evolved past current humans. Option 2 they are small group that somehow advance far beyond the Jove empire and evolved further away from Humans then the Jove all while being a splinter group of the Jove so they have few resourceÆs and did all this in a short amount of time. Even though they are small group they can take on the Jove Empire. Which sounds more likely? Passive shield tanking guide click here
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:46:00 - [52] Originally by: Pottsey I dont get how a small group, smaller then a tribe could take on 100's of millions of Jove if not trillions of Jove. If you have the power to effectively take over whoever you want, why do you need numbers yourself? Whatever numbers the enemy has, you can take over and make your own whenever you need to. Against a foe like the Enheduanni, the battle is unlikely to be a traditional pitched fleet engagement. It's going to be a battle over influence and events. It would be like trying to fight shadows. Originally by: Pottsey How could a small group advance in science so far beyond the Jove? Maybe they haven't really? Again, exploring the potential of the taking-control-of-people powers. It surely wouldn't be hard to use that power to control the direction of research, both for the Jove and other empires. You pluck off the most advanced teams for your own purposes, take the results, and ensure the host empire never knows the research even happened. You allow them to make slow progress so that they don't suspect they're being held back, while ensuring you're always ahead of them. The event with the explosively teleporting jovian could be connected with this - the jovians got too close to a technology the Enheduanni didn't want them to have, so they sabotaged the public demonstration, knowing that finding out what went wrong would put them back years. It would also have been simple for them to orchestrate the massacre at Crielere. Innovaatio Varustukset could also have been deliberately set up for a fall once their prototype advanced cloaking device was discovered. Originally by: Pottsey Further evidence Enheduanni are not a Jove splinter group. Jove donÆt count the Enheduanni as human but they count them self as human. Enheduanni donÆt count us as the same species as them but we count Jove as human and the same species. The question is, how much genetic divergence do you need before you count as a new species? Quote: What science gives them the ability to just invade my consciousness like that?ö He paused before answering. ôA mutation.ö This suggests to me that their mind-control abilities are due to the mutation, but not necessarily anything else. All their other developments could conceivably have been generated through prodigious use of this ability. Quote: ôGriousàare the Enheduanni human?ö ôNot anymore.ö So clearly the Jove believe they were human at some point. Which means they would have branched from some group of humans at some point. While this doesn't rule out an old-human braching, I would think a branching from a group of humans known to be monkeying around with their DNA anyway (i.e. the Jove) would be a more feasible explanation. An experiment gone wrong on a small research base, the test subjects send the staff crazy testing out their new powers. The base drops off the radar. By the time an investigative ship arrives they've mastered their powers, stage it so that it looks like a massive facility failure. The rescuers evacute them, thinking them the staff members, and the Enheduanni begin their infiltration of the Jove, and from there the other empires. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Jill Mei	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:57:00 - [53] We know there was a warloving, brutal, scamming, lying, violent race with advanced technology living on the planet earth a long time ago and people want to find them? Go jump in a sun or something, saves you the pain of getting killed otherwise.
CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.10 11:19:00 - [54] Edited by: CaldariAdam on 10/08/2007 11:19:56 Pottsey, Matthew explained everything really well especially the first part of his post. If you take that first part into account and pay closer attention to the mutation sentence you answer all your questions. As advanced as the Jovians became from their genetic manipulation, to me still means all they did was manipulate genetics they already have to play with. Like extreme intelligence. Even thousands of years from earth time they still cant make new genes that do not exist. A mutation is a new gene. It is extremely rare and if it is the addition of a gene it is the separation point into a new species.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 11:39:00 - [55] Originally by: Pottsey öGod-like powers.ö My point is though how could a small group gain god-like powers? How could a small group advance there technology so far ahead of the Jove? So far that the Jove donÆt even understand how some of it works let alone start to use. The Jove suffered a major set back in their civilization's progress witht eh fall of the "First Jovian Empire" and the Jovian Disease. This will have set the Jove's technological advancement back a fair way. The Enheduanni could be, like the Jove, a human civilization that kept it's knowledge when the EVE Gate fell (unlike the 4 Empires). But unlike the Jove, did not suffer from their own problems (the Jovian Disease), and so progressed unfettered. Thus, in the time since the EVE Gate's collapse, they can have advanced much further than the Jove, altering themselves even further. There is reference in the PF that the Jove are not considered by some to still be human. The Jove do still consider themselves to be human, but sufficient genetic changes could even force them to see a group as no longer human. If the Enheduanni have followed the same route as the Jove, but are further ahead at it, then they could no longer be recognizably human. But there are several options as to what the Enheduanni are. First is that they're another civilization who can trace their roots back to Earth, like all other known groups in New Eden. Second is that they're and offshoot of the Jove (perhaps remnants of the First Jovian Empire, who were not affected by the Disease, and so massively advanced over the current Jovian Empire). Third is that they're a more recent offspring of Milky Way humans, who have travelled to New Eden after the collapse of the EVE Gate. Fourth is that they're non-human aliens. Until more detailed prime fiction is written about them, it's largely guess work as to which they are. --------
CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.10 11:55:00 - [56] Can we please get the topic back on track my post is not about these freaks. But how we in EVE are to take over space much further out from New Eden and that we will never likely meet our ancestors because of the explosion.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:12:00 - [57] ôBut how we in EVE are to take over space much further out from New Eden and that we will never likely meet our ancestors because of the explosion.ö I donÆt agree we will never meet them. Personally I think we wont find them, they will find us assuming they havenÆt already. Its only a matter of time before they find us. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:19:00 - [58] Originally by: CaldariAdam Can we please get the topic back on track my post is not about these freaks. But how we in EVE are to take over space much further out from New Eden and that we will never likely meet our ancestors because of the explosion. 'Fraid not old chap. The OP does not get to choose what is discussed, only where the discussion starts --------
CaldariAdam	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:22:00 - [59] Originally by: Pottsey ôBut how we in EVE are to take over space much further out from New Eden and that we will never likely meet our ancestors because of the explosion.ö I donÆt agree we will never meet them. Personally I think we wont find them, they will find us assuming they havenÆt already. Its only a matter of time before they find us. I believe what closed the wormhole destroyed what we came from.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:26:00 - [60] ôI believe what closed the wormhole destroyed what we came from.ö ThatÆs a lot of energy. It seems odd one side would destroy a complete galaxy and the other side would be a few solo systems. Not saying your wrong just personally I find it unlikely. Passive shield tanking guide click here

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