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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.12 14:37:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Luna Nilaya
I'm using 1600mm plate in the third low slot.
It has saved my Falcon couple of times already.
3x SDA and the rig doesn't propably add almost any strenght to your ECM's because of being heavily penalized.
Correct. However then you have a falcon which has easily twice the effective HP than the rook which is a considerable advantage.
If you fit the rook with 1 SDA, an 1600mm plate and an strength rig it has on racial 11.7 strength, do the same thing with a falcon but with 2 SDAs since it has one more low and it has 10.1 strength on racials.
Which means that the falcon has with a plate setup on both ships 86% of the EW strength as the rook.
The maxxed EW setup is where the rook has the biggest advantage compared to the falcon.
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.08.13 06:34:00 -
[32]
The Rook is a (even "the") straight-up ECM platform, pure and simple. It's extremely good at what it does, but what it does is exactly one thing. Any advantage it might gain by closing range to use its weapons is an advantage its horrible vulnerability to attack makes extremely dangerous to take. It is, in a nutshell, a souped-up Blackbird, with all the same essential traits.
The Falcon is a multipurpose recon ship, good for infiltration, scouting, cyno placement (if you've got a sufficiently bold / suicidal Falcon pilot) ... and capable of providing roughly Blackbird-grade ECM combined with a pulsing cloak.
Frankly, in any situation where I don't have time to map out a pile of ECM-"snipe" bookmarks, I'll take the Falcon any day of the week. It waltzes happily through enemy fleet concentrations where the Rook would get primaried and ganked in a second, can place itself at extreme range without the slightest warning, and gets to choose -exactly- when it wants to enter a battle.
Any effort to bring these two ships' ECM capabilities closer together will accomplish only this: the murder of the Rook. I already ended up leaving my poor lonesome Rook behind the last time my corp executed a major move; don't embarrass the poor thing further.
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R0ot
Got R0ot
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Posted - 2007.08.13 09:25:00 -
[33]
Falcon and rook are both really effective ships and as already said they both preform their roles perfectly, but its obvious that ships like the Arazu and Lachesis way out-power the caldari counterparts.
I'm not saying the rook/falcon aren't pwn mobiles, but the whole ECM nerf awhile back has severely gimped the rook, falcon and scorpion, but at the same time its better than seeing every pvp ship flying with one multi spec and being able to jam their target without fail, problem is damps are the new multi spec tool, with a small squad of frigs each with a damp rendering almost any target screwed. So imho opinion the bonuses for the rook/falcon/scorp need boosted, or damps need nerfed evening up the sides once more because do gallente really need another i-win button in pvp.... 
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Luna Nilaya
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.13 15:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Luna Nilaya
I'm using 1600mm plate in the third low slot.
It has saved my Falcon couple of times already.
3x SDA and the rig doesn't propably add almost any strenght to your ECM's because of being heavily penalized.
Correct. However then you have a falcon which has easily twice the effective HP than the rook which is a considerable advantage.
If you fit the rook with 1 SDA, an 1600mm plate and an strength rig it has on racial 11.7 strength, do the same thing with a falcon but with 2 SDAs since it has one more low and it has 10.1 strength on racials.
Which means that the falcon has with a plate setup on both ships 86% of the EW strength as the rook.
The maxxed EW setup is where the rook has the biggest advantage compared to the falcon.
Well actually I'm using Large Shield Extender II in my rook so I have pretty much same amount of HP with both ships.
My jamming strenght is almost 13 with racials if I remember correctly.
Rook is mean ship, I think the jamming strenght difference is quite significant.
Yes, I could fit 1 more jammer with Falcon but since I'm doing a lot of scouting with it, I have the same amount of jammers in both ships.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.13 15:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Luna Nilaya
Yes, I could fit 1 more jammer with Falcon but since I'm doing a lot of scouting with it, I have the same amount of jammers in both ships.
In which case you are using the falcon for multiple roles (ew and scouting) and the rook only for one role (EW). A specialized ship is obviously better.
If you use both ships for EW only, with the rook 1 SB2, 1 LSE2 and 5 * ECM and the falcon 1 SB2 and 6 * ecm the falcon will have 90% of the rooks EW strength.
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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.14 09:47:00 -
[36]
The problem with the rook and falcon is
too many people fly it
yep, and as more people become capable of fying it (those caldari specced players - far too many of them) it will seem like its overpowered, as people ming3 and whine about being perma jammed by 3 fully specc'd rook/falcon pilots.
the key to winning at eve, is to fly a race/ship that is totally underutilised, find a unique tactic to *exploit* which makes it overpowered, but most important, tell nothing to anybody and hope not enough people moan about it.
1 such current ships are the huginn/rapier, that get an impossible bonus to web range making them solowtfpwn mobiles if you fit a faction scrambler.
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What are you looking at?
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Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.14 10:10:00 -
[37]
You do know the recons are supposed to work together right.
When they worked together the enemy ship / ships:
Will be jammed, dampened, scrammed, webbed, painted, nossed and tracking disrupted and theres no wai you can run. And they will do damage to you even if it does slowly kill u
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Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
prathe
Minmatar
Omega Enterprises
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.14 17:36:00 -
[38]
Edited by: prathe on 14/08/2007 17:41:15
minmatar recons primary ecm target painting
effective thru both variants
gallente recons primary ecm sensor damps
effective thru both variants
ammar recons primary ecm turret disruption
effective thru both variants
caldari recons primary ecm Jammers
reduced effectiveness on force recon model
minmatar recons primary weapon webbing
same effect all models
gallente recons primary weapons scrambling
same effect all models
ammarr recons primary weapons nos
reduced effectiveness on force recon model
caldari recons primary weapons ecm
reduced effecttiveness on force recon model
end result recons are not ballanced
i fly all four races of recon and truthfully caldari needs a boost for it force recon
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Luna Nilaya
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.14 19:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Luna Nilaya
Yes, I could fit 1 more jammer with Falcon but since I'm doing a lot of scouting with it, I have the same amount of jammers in both ships.
In which case you are using the falcon for multiple roles (ew and scouting) and the rook only for one role (EW). A specialized ship is obviously better.
If you use both ships for EW only, with the rook 1 SB2, 1 LSE2 and 5 * ECM and the falcon 1 SB2 and 6 * ecm the falcon will have 90% of the rooks EW strength.
It's not that simple, I'm not going to do the math but Rook is a lot more effective jammer, even with one less jammer.
And I can keep some cruisers perma jammed with one racial because it's strenght is higher with Rook than the sensor strenght of the ship but with Falcon I can't.
SB? I would never fit my rook with shield booster.. at least not in a gang.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.14 20:00:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Luna Nilaya
It's not that simple, I'm not going to do the math but Rook is a lot more effective jammer, even with one less jammer.
To repeat myself:
If you use both ships for EW only, with the rook 1 SB2, 1 LSE2 and 5 * ECM and the falcon 1 SB2 and 6 * ecm the falcon will have 90% of the rooks EW strength.
And SB2 = sensor booster 2. Noone in his right mind would waste a med slot for a shield booster for caldari recon, be it in gang or not in gang.
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