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Fun Bunny
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Posted - 2007.08.12 00:52:00 -
[1]
Remember when CCP wanted to make warp scrams racial and chance based like jammers? You know how people said that was the worst idea CCP had ever had and they doubted they could come up with anything worse? Well here it is, compression nerf:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=492
Enjoy minimum 20% higher prices on basically everything and no 0.0 production above basic modules. Well done CCP.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:04:00 -
[2]
Your not making much sense... there is no nerf here.
it's just a fix to an exploit.
and those 0. modules you speak of don't count because they were jsut used to move minerals, meaning this doesn't change the market at all. maybe a bit before the mining cap ships come out, but I believe that's coming out months before this "nerf" is anyways.
-----------------------------------
I'm working my way through college
target CCP
 Quote:
Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs?
Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:05:00 -
[3]
market exploitation time
Quote:
Science and Invention Skill Seeding
Science and Invention skills, excluding Encryption Methods, will be seeded on the market. Some of these skills have a disproportionally high demand (such as the Graviton Physics skill required by the Interdiction Sphere Launcher), preventing smaller corporations or alliances the opportunity to become involved in this section of the market. Seeding a greater supply will allow more players to get into invention and advanced manufacturing or research. The base price will be 10 million ISK.
____ __ ________
_sig below_
devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:09:00 -
[4]
Yea, the invention stuff I don't understand. Because that'll crash the T2 market worse than Black Tuesday.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 12/08/2007 01:14:13
Originally by: MotherMoon
Your not making much sense... there is no nerf here.
it's just a fix to an exploit.
and those 0. modules you speak of don't count because they were jsut used to move minerals, meaning this doesn't change the market at all. maybe a bit before the mining cap ships come out, but I believe that's coming out months before this "nerf" is anyways.
Exploit? Get off the cra ck pipe.
0.0 is founded on mineral compression. *EVERYONE* does it, because you have to.
This change helps no one. Nobody enjoys freighter runs. Well maybe crazy people do, but really this just isnt fun at all.
I dunno CCP. Don't make EVE into a day job for us. Make changes that cause fun, not boredom and grind.
______
Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
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Jennai
The Silent Rage
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:39:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jennai on 12/08/2007 01:39:14
I can understand nerfing the ridiculous compression items like doomsdays and the portal generator, but mineral hauling to 0.0 still sucks even after compressing with the old method of passive targeters and small hull reps, and you have to plan the runs days in advance because you can only compress ~2.5m trit per day per bpo.
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Gojyu
Gallente
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:44:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Science and Invention Skill Seeding
Science and Invention skills, excluding Encryption Methods, will be seeded on the market. Some of these skills have a disproportionally high demand (such as the Graviton Physics skill required by the Interdiction Sphere Launcher), preventing smaller corporations or alliances the opportunity to become involved in this section of the market. Seeding a greater supply will allow more players to get into invention and advanced manufacturing or research. The base price will be 10 million ISK.
As a budding interdictor pilot, this announcement has ensured I don't give a rat's ass about compression
Quote:
mineral hauling to 0.0 still sucks even after compressing with the old method of passive targeters and small hull reps.
Don't know if you're aware, but there's a new capital in town with a jump drive and the ability to hold absolute beastly quantities of raw ore. Perhaps there is a way to take advantage of this in trade runs I wonder?
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:46:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Exploit? Get off the cra ck pipe.
0.0 is founded on mineral compression. *EVERYONE* does it, because you have to.
This change helps no one. Nobody enjoys freighter runs. Well maybe crazy people do, but really this just isnt fun at all.
I dunno CCP. Don't make EVE into a day job for us. Make changes that cause fun, not boredom and grind.
Just because it will make things more of a pain in the ass doesn't mean the current method isn't an exploit.
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Whiners - Unite!
Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Swedish Bob
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Exploit? Get off the cra ck pipe.
0.0 is founded on mineral compression. *EVERYONE* does it, because you have to.
This change helps no one. Nobody enjoys freighter runs. Well maybe crazy people do, but really this just isnt fun at all.
I dunno CCP. Don't make EVE into a day job for us. Make changes that cause fun, not boredom and grind.
Just because it will make things more of a pain in the ass doesn't mean the current method isn't an exploit.
And it also doesn't mean that the proposed changes are any good.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.12 01:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Swedish Bob
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Exploit? Get off the cra ck pipe.
0.0 is founded on mineral compression. *EVERYONE* does it, because you have to.
This change helps no one. Nobody enjoys freighter runs. Well maybe crazy people do, but really this just isnt fun at all.
I dunno CCP. Don't make EVE into a day job for us. Make changes that cause fun, not boredom and grind.
Just because it will make things more of a pain in the ass doesn't mean the current method isn't an exploit.
And it also doesn't mean that the proposed changes are any good.
Fair enough. 
The problem is that there's no industrial ship between a hauler and a freighter - there should really be a ship to fit this role*.
*NOT A CARRIER.
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Whiners - Unite!
Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.08.12 02:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tarminic
The problem is that there's no industrial ship between a hauler and a freighter - there should really be a ship to fit this role*.
*NOT A CARRIER.
I <3 my Thanatos.. 
Originally by: David Hackworth
ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.08.12 02:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Siege on 12/08/2007 02:08:40
So, then you guys all missed the previous dev-blog that deals with the new industrial capital ship, which has among it's other very interesting capabilities..... the ability to compress ore AND ice?
Now, I don't know if it's only able to compress ore in it's own hold, or if it changes ore into a compressed form you can transport in other ships. Since it deals with BP's, looks like you will be able to use this ship to compress the ore, and other ships to transport it.
Since it appears you DID all totally skip it, here's the link.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=490
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Swedish Bob
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.12 02:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Swedish Bob
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Exploit? Get off the cra ck pipe.
0.0 is founded on mineral compression. *EVERYONE* does it, because you have to.
This change helps no one. Nobody enjoys freighter runs. Well maybe crazy people do, but really this just isnt fun at all.
I dunno CCP. Don't make EVE into a day job for us. Make changes that cause fun, not boredom and grind.
Just because it will make things more of a pain in the ass doesn't mean the current method isn't an exploit.
And it also doesn't mean that the proposed changes are any good.
Fair enough.
The problem is that there's no industrial ship between a hauler and a freighter - there should really be a ship to fit this role*.
*NOT A CARRIER.
Doesn't matter what it is. You just plain won't get a cargo ship 30 jumps and through the empire->0.0 choke points. You have to have a large fleet of battleships along with you. Plus it is just plain boring and tedious.
This is going to hurt newbie empire miners as well. If it kills the export market the low end mineral prices will crash again.
What is needed is a better ACL system for stations and a rethinking of how jump bridges work. If CCP made it so we could establish highway jump bridges from empire to 0.0 systems it would be so much nicer. You would still have the time and isk sink but it would take some of the tedium out of it. As well as give empire folks better access to 0.0 markets.
So if we had 2 grades, the current 5ly jump bridge as well as a 15-20ly jump bridge. Make them expense with higher fuel costs. Make it so you can control with finer detail who can do what where. An actual scripted ACL system would be nice for a change. Then you can charge taxes, fuel, exotic dancers or whatever. You would still be able to attack an alliances supply lines by killing the towers that make up the highway.
A way to make alliance based highway systems would pretty much benefit everyone.
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VCBee 360
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Posted - 2007.08.12 02:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Siege
Edited by: Siege on 12/08/2007 02:08:40
So, then you guys all missed the previous dev-blog that deals with the new industrial capital ship, which has among it's other very interesting capabilities..... the ability to compress ore AND ice?
Now, I don't know if it's only able to compress ore in it's own hold, or if it changes ore into a compressed form you can transport in other ships. Since it deals with BP's, looks like you will be able to use this ship to compress the ore, and other ships to transport it.
Since it appears you DID all totally skip it, here's the link.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=490
Yea its a nice ship. But do you have any idea how much in low-end minerals multi-thousand player alliances burn up per day? Using the current compression systems I'm fairly sure our main logistics guys are tempted to shoot themselves in the face.
It also doesn't solve the problem of getting the goods out of empire, since you can't have these ships there.
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Fun Bunny
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Posted - 2007.08.12 02:18:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Fun Bunny on 12/08/2007 02:18:08
Originally by: Siege
Edited by: Siege on 12/08/2007 02:08:40
So, then you guys all missed the previous dev-blog that deals with the new industrial capital ship, which has among it's other very interesting capabilities..... the ability to compress ore AND ice?
Now, I don't know if it's only able to compress ore in it's own hold, or if it changes ore into a compressed form you can transport in other ships. Since it deals with BP's, looks like you will be able to use this ship to compress the ore, and other ships to transport it.
Since it appears you DID all totally skip it, here's the link.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=490
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, but I'm bored so I'll induldge you: the ore cap ship will be used by maybe 3-4 people since the idea of putting a defenseless capital ship in a low-sec belt with a siege mode to MINE VELDSPAR is the dumbest **** I have ever heard. The compression ratios are aweful for veldspar too, so go back to being a hatstand or whatever you do for a living.
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Gojyu
Gallente
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.12 02:28:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gojyu on 12/08/2007 02:30:18
Quote:
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, but I'm bored so I'll induldge you: the ore cap ship will be used by maybe 3-4 people since the idea of putting a defenseless capital ship in a low-sec belt with a siege mode to MINE VELDSPAR is the dumbest **** I have ever heard. The compression ratios are aweful for veldspar too, so go back to being a hatstand or whatever you do for a living.
Ok.... think about this just for a second... Where can you pick up ore that isn't in asteroids, I'll give you a hint- it begins with an M. Note that the poster above you managed to explain her point politely, and as a result, doesn't come off as an idiot when he posts.
Quote:
It also doesn't solve the problem of getting the goods out of empire, since you can't have these ships there.
The ship has a maintenance bay, which is enough (according to a recent devblog) to fit 4-5 hulks. I'm assuming that will fit quite a few haulers too. Grab the haulers, get your ore, bring it back to your ship, compress, jet, store the compressed-ore filled hauler back in the bay, done. Sure, it's nowhere near as good as what they're taking out, but even I could see that you weren't meant to be doing what you were doing, you can't possibly transform 450k m3 of metals into a 1000m3 object, just doesn't make any sense.
Also, you can still perform the compression/refine trick post patch, you're only taking a 20% loss. Sure, that's a fair chunk- but if, like you guys are saying this will destroy 0.0, might be worth it to take the hit
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.08.12 02:56:00 -
[17]
Why can't you mine the minerals in 0.0?
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior)
I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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Jennai
The Silent Rage
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Why can't you mine the minerals in 0.0?
because it takes 6 apoc-hours just to get the trit for one T2 BS, and who the hell wants to go to 0.0 to mine crap ore for hours on end? you mine high-ends, export to empire, and import low-ends.
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Swedish Bob
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:11:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Swedish Bob on 12/08/2007 03:13:47
Edited by: Swedish Bob on 12/08/2007 03:12:03
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Why can't you mine the minerals in 0.0?
Because mining sucks. Plus 0.0 alliances have other things to do like defend territory. Also roving 0.0 pirates make mining difficult. If someone was going to mine, they would mine high-end minerals since the low-ends make so little isk/hr.
One example I just saw though. If you did manage to fill the ore ship full of trit. It would cost you 23M to jump it from empire to my space. And the ore its self is only worth 43M. And thats maybe 3 BS worth of trit. Thats not nearly enough.
I don't think CCP has really thought this one out.
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Gojyu
Gallente
Ever Flow
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Swedish Bob
Edited by: Swedish Bob on 12/08/2007 03:12:03
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Why can't you mine the minerals in 0.0?
Because mining sucks. Plus 0.0 alliances have other things to do like defend territory. Also roving 0.0 pirates make mining difficult. If someone was going to mine, they would mine high-end minerals since the low-ends make so little isk/hr.
One example I just saw though. If you did manage to fill the ore ship full of trit. It would cost you 23M to jump it from empire to my space. And the ore its self is only worth 19M. And thats maybe 3 BS worth of trit. Thats not nearly enough.
I don't think CCP has really thought this one out.
How did you work that out, since the ore ship compresses unrefined ore, and the exact compression formula (to my knowlege) haven't been released yet?
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Swedish Bob
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gojyu
Originally by: Swedish Bob
Edited by: Swedish Bob on 12/08/2007 03:12:03
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Why can't you mine the minerals in 0.0?
Because mining sucks. Plus 0.0 alliances have other things to do like defend territory. Also roving 0.0 pirates make mining difficult. If someone was going to mine, they would mine high-end minerals since the low-ends make so little isk/hr.
One example I just saw though. If you did manage to fill the ore ship full of trit. It would cost you 23M to jump it from empire to my space. And the ore its self is only worth 19M. And thats maybe 3 BS worth of trit. Thats not nearly enough.
I don't think CCP has really thought this one out.
How did you work that out, since the ore ship compresses unrefined ore, and the exact compression formula (to my knowlege) haven't been released yet?
Yea, I messed up the calc but the crappy forum software wouldn't let me edit for some reason. Its 23M to jump 19M trit. That much trit is around 45M. Thats not jumping ore. The compression portion isn't useful since CCP won't let you compress veld to less than its equivalent in trit most likely.
But still having transport be half the cost of the mineral is insane.
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Fun Bunny
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:21:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Fun Bunny on 12/08/2007 03:21:59
Actually, empire prices probably won't go up much since everyone and their uncle will be running hulk macros in empire, so it won't even stop inflation, but it'll still kill the few 0.0 markets that actually exists. It's just a dumb nerf that CCP hasn't even thought through, won't add anything to the game and will only frustrate its customers.
I'm honestly interested to hear what ccp hoped to accomplish with this though, since I'm not seeing it.
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Shoukei
Boobs Ahoy
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:24:00 -
[23]
why are so many goons crying all over the forums because of this? ccp is just patching an age old exploit.
here be signatures! |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Jennai
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Why can't you mine the minerals in 0.0?
because it takes 6 apoc-hours just to get the trit for one T2 BS, and who the hell wants to go to 0.0 to mine crap ore for hours on end? you mine high-ends, export to empire, and import low-ends.
If your corp's size has exceeded its infrastructure, therein lies the problem. Either get back to your industrialist roots, or hire someone like... well, us.
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Death Priest
Stronghold corp
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.12 03:36:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Death Priest on 12/08/2007 03:36:27
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
Yea, the invention stuff I don't understand. Because that'll crash the T2 market worse than Black Tuesday.
Ahh your Main character must own the Cap Recharger II or the Vagabond BPO huh?
If anything the only thing invention did was crashed the 1500% markups.
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Hannobaal
Gallente
Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.12 06:59:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Science and Invention skills, excluding Encryption Methods, will be seeded on the market. Some of these skills have a disproportionally high demand (such as the Graviton Physics skill required by the Interdiction Sphere Launcher), preventing smaller corporations or alliances the opportunity to become involved in this section of the market. Seeding a greater supply will allow more players to get into invention and advanced manufacturing or research. The base price will be 10 million ISK.
Awesome!!!
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Irob Urore
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.12 07:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 12/08/2007 01:14:13
This change helps no one. Nobody enjoys freighter runs. Well maybe crazy people do, but really this just isnt fun at all.
I dunno CCP. Don't make EVE into a day job for us. Make changes that cause fun, not boredom and grind.
qft, eve is becoming more like a job every day, fun left this town along time ago
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.12 07:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SiJira
market exploitation time
Quote:
Science and Invention Skill Seeding
Science and Invention skills, excluding Encryption Methods, will be seeded on the market. Some of these skills have a disproportionally high demand (such as the Graviton Physics skill required by the Interdiction Sphere Launcher), preventing smaller corporations or alliances the opportunity to become involved in this section of the market. Seeding a greater supply will allow more players to get into invention and advanced manufacturing or research. The base price will be 10 million ISK.
As the mission that dropped that books (silence the informant) seem to have stopped dropping them, or at least now has a very reduced chance of dropping some skillbook than before, some system to introduce them was needed.
So the option where market or exploration/encounter sites. And exploration/encounter is still broken (most sited don't despawn).
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.08.12 07:44:00 -
[29]
Alright people, sit down, cause I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Will probably surprise a lot of you.
People lived in 0.0 before jumpdrives
WTH happened to all the 0.0 players? When did they become more carebear than the mission runners?
Answer, when Jumpdrives allowed them to "skip" huge portions of space, thus reducing the chance of random, PvP encounters. With Dreads/Carriers, moving huge amounts of good became safer then Empire living.
Remember the the excitment of hunting down a Freighter full of enemy goods? Now, remember the last time you saw a Freighter in >.4?
As for CCP not knowing what they are doing, they actually do know, it's just, the game has evolved away from their initial view of 0.0, as a place to build Empires, a place where you need logictics. A place where players interacted, where Industrialists needed PvPers for protection, and PvPer's need industrialists for ships/mods.
CCP is correct, 0.0 kinda evolved away from interaction between industial players, and Pvpers. Sadly, change doesn't even begins to bring logistics back to 0.0, I think that ships has already sailed. It makes it less profitable, but with the profit margins most are running, it is a moot point anyway, they can still get the good they need, they wil just have to spend an extra hour or two mining high ends for the same return.
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MrBadidea
Caldari
Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.12 07:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Death Priest
Words.
If anything the only thing invention did was crashed the 1500% markups.
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Your Corporation Management Skills hit Lore Isander, Wrecking for Stolen Hulk BPO. |
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