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buzzy
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Posted - 2004.02.03 10:10:00 -
[1]
Finance...
Most people who have been playing for a while realises that in Eve to make money you need money. If I have 10M I can hope to earn 1M a day trading ... If I have a 10M Moa setup I can earn 100's killing NPC and selling the booty ... If I start with 0isk I *have* to mine to make money or join a corp when I don't know which one I should join !
Eve finances are stuck in the dark ages (literally) - the markets are lacking liquidity. If there were Eve banks - then I think we'd see the entire economy boost ... people would be able to buy bigger ships ... buy more weapons ... which would feed back into the market ... creating more money ...
so - who wants to lend me 10M !!! ?
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Jeem
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Posted - 2004.02.03 11:50:00 -
[2]
I think that's a fine idea for a new corporation. If a bunch of us got together and mined and took courier missions for a week, we ought to be able to raise a few million between us, and then advertise loans at exorbitant rates or we'll break your legs :-)
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buzzy
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Posted - 2004.02.03 13:40:00 -
[3]
 Quote:
I think that's a fine idea for a new corporation. If a bunch of us got together and mined and took courier missions for a week, we ought to be able to raise a few million between us, and then advertise loans at exorbitant rates or we'll break your legs :-)
that is the general idea - and you have credit ratings on players so you don't go bankrupt .... I think it would work ! And charge 5-10% interest per day ... for a couple of noobs getting some mining equip together that would be no problem !
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Wurrzag Zahubu
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Posted - 2004.02.03 14:02:00 -
[4]
Quote:
If I have a 10M Moa setup I can earn 100's killing NPC and selling the booty
What is a 10M Moa?
And by 100's killing NPC... do you mean 100 K isk?
Sorry for the annoying questions, ya, I'm a noob.
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buzzy
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Posted - 2004.02.03 14:07:00 -
[5]
Quote:
Quote:
If I have a 10M Moa setup I can earn 100's killing NPC and selling the booty
What is a 10M Moa?
And by 100's killing NPC... do you mean 100 K isk?
Sorry for the annoying questions, ya, I'm a noob.
a MOA is a caldari cruiser - it cost 7.2Million ISK to buy, another 2 Million ISK to insure and the rest of the 10M ISK goes to buying weapons - a grand total of 10Million for a space-worthy Moa !
the 100's == 100,000's ISK killing the bigger NPC ( they fetch 10-15K each and drop a lot of expensive kit that you can sell on the market)
and good luck !
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Moonracer
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Posted - 2004.02.03 14:19:00 -
[6]
game economies are tricky things. I'm used to starting games right when their released (a bad habit). I just joined EVE and am impresed with the market. Usually after about 6 months or so the game economy falls apart and inflation is insane. the prices for everything I've needed so far in EVE seem pretty fair. Even the 10 million for a battle ready MOA, which will take me quite a while before I can afford one.
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Lomithrandra
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Posted - 2004.02.03 21:35:00 -
[7]
Moved to General Discussion.
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.03 23:26:00 -
[8]
Would be a great idea. The ability to loan and charge interest on money. In fact I believe a corp tried that. Here are a few issues that would need working out:
1) Ability to create a contract.
2) Ability to enforce a contract.
2a) Putting a lein on someone's wallet (when money flows through the wallet and someone is delinquent on payments, money is automatically deducted.
2b) Ability to track down and put a hold on the item that was used as collateral ie new ship etc...
2c) Ability to detain delinquent customers even in empire space without concord interfering.
I'm sure there are other considerations to make something like this work. But as it stands with the rules in place as they are this would be a scam-fest waiting to happen.
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svetlana
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Posted - 2004.02.04 02:27:00 -
[9]
it's been talked about before, of course one major scam fest waiting to happen is:
1) get loan, pass off money or stash it.
2) delete character
3) make new character, repeat (1)
since established chars probably don't need loans, it's the noob chars that are gonna be your customers- and they will be happily deleting themselves over and over until they have enough money that they don't need loans anymore.
-svet
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.04 04:32:00 -
[10]
Well, here's something I'd like to see in EVE... :) Which would help this a lot.
I'd love to see a player-run judicial system. Here's how it would work, if I were suggesting it:
Each bloodline would nominate 2 individuals to be on the Supreme Judicial System. They'd do this based on their various bloodline goals (so Amaar might do a shoot-em-up thing, as might the Minmitar; Caldari and Gallente would hold elections, or something).
Anyway, you'd get your two people, who would serve a term of one month. Polaris would also have two representatives.
When cases came before them, they'd listen to both sides (in a channel, or in EVE mail). Then, they'd make their ruling, and their ruling would be implemented. They could assess these liens, repossess ships, etc.
I think this would be a really nice addition to EVE. Would allow people to take some responsibility for things, and settle inter-personal disputes as they saw fit.
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svetlana
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Posted - 2004.02.04 05:48:00 -
[11]
Quote:
I'd love to see a player-run judicial system. elections, or something).
...
When cases came before them, they'd listen to both sides (in a channel, or in EVE mail). Then, they'd make their ruling, and their ruling would be implemented. They could assess these liens, repossess ships, etc.
I think this would be a really nice addition to EVE. Would allow people to take some responsibility for things, and settle inter-personal disputes as they saw fit.
this is a neat idea, but probably for a different game which is simulating a peacful society. remember, in EVE it is legal gameplay to scam and steal... and murder for heavens sake;) there are corp thefts where a single player steals billions of isk in one night-- and that act is completely legal. the victims are not entitled to get anything back ever in this game, that is part of the design.
also i am not sure how you could take a character to court if he has already been deleted, which is sometimes the case in scams.
would be great if the playerbase had some ingame tools to track down stolen-items and deal out their own justice on individuals they feel have wronged them. but atm anyone can scam and get away without reprisal-- and for better or for worse it's designed to be that way;)
it would be pretty funny if everytime someone got killed, could you take the pirate to court for murder. i know that has nothing to do with your original idea-- but just illustrating how strange it would be if you created a court system where you could get reparations for an unpaid bill- but not for you getting murdered.
in either case- can you imagine how backlogged the court system would get with just 2 individuals and polaris for each race presiding? even the ingame petition system with multiple polaris and gm's can't handle the number of complaints/petitions that players generate every hour.
my gawd- in rlÖ i went to traffic court and it took me 3 hours just to get through a line of like 40 people. you might get over 5 thousand whiners® lined up in eve;)
-svet
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Ishkur
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Posted - 2004.02.04 06:38:00 -
[12]
Good points. :)
Here's how I see it, which is a bit different.
Gameplay *allows* for scams and murder -- just as real life does (i.e., you *can* scam and murder people). However, laid over the top of that are rules that people have decided to live by.
Frankly, I think you should be able to take the pirate to court for murder. Although, with cloning technology, I think you'd have a hard time justifying the conviction. But I could see taking him to court for the cost of your clone.
But here's why... Empire space should be civil. As (I think) TomB said, this is the future, we aren't barbarians anymore. So where's the legal system? Where's the justice?
If a character is deleted, he's dead. I doubt someone would write a loan to someone who was 4 days old. And if they did, shame on them! :)
Of course, I think all of this should only apply to Empire space. That is, only activity in Empire is subject to the court, and only players in Empire space can be subject to the court's ruling. So if a scammer wanted to run from the law, so to speak, they'd be able to ... just stay out of Empire for a while. :)
I think something like this (even if not exactly what I proposed) would add a really deep layer to the whole political PvP in EVE.
And frankly, it might even continue those things we don't like. :) Some schemer could get elected a Judge and then sell decisions to the highest bidder. Corruption, intrigue, scandal... All those great things that make politics so much fun!
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buzzy
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Posted - 2004.02.04 10:13:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Would be a great idea. The ability to loan and charge interest on money. In fact I believe a corp tried that. Here are a few issues that would need working out:
1) Ability to create a contract.
2) Ability to enforce a contract.
2a) Putting a lein on someone's wallet (when money flows through the wallet and someone is delinquent on payments, money is automatically deducted.
2b) Ability to track down and put a hold on the item that was used as collateral ie new ship etc...
2c) Ability to detain delinquent customers even in empire space without concord interfering.
I'm sure there are other considerations to make something like this work. But as it stands with the rules in place as they are this would be a scam-fest waiting to happen.
do you know the name of the corp that attempted it ? I would be interested in finding out what happened.
The only way to get around being scamed would be to have a credit rating db for all players that apply for loans => they only get small loans at frist and work their way up to higher value loans. Maintain a db of known-good players, get screen shots of skill, get references from Corps ... it could be an interesting experiment. When I get a spare 10M or so I may attempt it !
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.04 19:55:00 -
[14]
I believe it was a financial subdivision of Taggart Transdimensional Inc. or TTI for short.
So you might be able to get a little data from them on their experiences.
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Ariell Lucinwind
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Posted - 2004.02.04 21:39:00 -
[15]
A couple of things, I first thought there was going to be a big drawn out list of everything that EVE is missing, from Repair Drones to Elite Stuff.
But on a whole, I like your post 
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Came back cause I love you guys :P |
Intruders
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Posted - 2004.02.04 22:17:00 -
[16]
EVE needs a bank!
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Prophecy
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Posted - 2004.02.04 22:31:00 -
[17]
The fact that scamming / stealing without consequence is fundamental in Eve renders anything as organized as a financial institution an absurdity of epic proportion.
Mix in the alternates and multiple accounts that most scammers utilize, and even a radical overhaul of Eves legal system wouldn't be enough to prevent a bank from being obliterated by scams within minutes of opening.
Actually, given the nature of Eve's current player-base, you would probably have to measure it's demise in seconds. Though forum readers would be entertained by gloating scammers for several days afterwards.
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Intruders
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Posted - 2004.02.04 22:39:00 -
[18]
My friends could loan me money, and if the had an option to get interest rates from it it would drive them easier to click the "loan this player" button.
Also an automatic items and shiop confiscation could be in order when I failed to give that money back. If you dont trust people dont loan them. I dont see why a "loan" option couldnt be implemented with the above terms.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Prophecy
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Posted - 2004.02.04 22:51:00 -
[19]
There's nothing preventing you from giving loans to a player you trust today. Just be aware that you have nothing stronger than their word that you'll get it back.
As for something like automatic item confiscation... Come back in a month or two, after you've seen a corps assets erased by an alternate character, who in turn got tossed into bio-reclamation after passing everything on to a second account. Your picture should be clearer then.
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Intruders
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Posted - 2004.02.04 23:10:00 -
[20]
Again.. there can be nothing suspicius for having a "loan this player" button in your friends UI. Someone could really need and must work towards making friends and trusting them.
I can see why some people hate the "loaning" idea..because it would let some people level quicker and easier from others..especially people who have REAL friends.
People who dontlike having friends, on the other side, usually are competitive way much over the line and generaly are not happy by seeing the other people who can utilize better sociological aspects than them, going higher in the ladder. Great communities can be build by working towards socializing and not the pther way around.
You have to trust me to this, loaning options will reduce the hardship and difficulties to others who got robed while not paying enough attention. They would also have the option to not quit the game but.. work towards making friends this time..
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Prophecy
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Posted - 2004.02.04 23:38:00 -
[21]
There's nothing wrong with the idea of loans.
This is part of the reason for belonging to a corporation. Your buddies help to keep you on your feet. I've given loans and gifts a number of times. At a financial loss, since even well intentioned players can't always pay you back. But at the gain of stronger allies to stand beside over time.
You have these means already. Cash gifts, and one-sided trades are right there in the game. You need nothing new to accomplish the communal growth you're describing.
But what you don't have, and what will never be realistic, is the concept of a secured loan. Your point of contact in the game is a transient virtual being; an avatar. You have no hold over the actual person. If they are a scammer (and this game is overflowing with scammers) they play several avatars, and are quite proficient at transfering resources and erasing the trail.
It's tricky repossessing a ship from a character with zero assets, or who no longer exists.
And lastly, it's not like I approve of these circumstances. I think it rots that Eve is such a playground for people willing to employ tactics like this. But there it is.
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Skaz
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Posted - 2004.02.04 23:48:00 -
[22]
The absence of a way to make binding contracts in EVE is somewhat of an hinderance to this plan which btw is not a bad one at all, I've always been for financing n00bs (albeit on a much smaller scale)
But like I said, the trust issue isn't all that good around EVE, people are under the impression that no one can be trusted because of the sheer number of scams that are rampant in EVE and deemed "a part of the game" by CCP.
So the ability to make some sort of "legal" (within the game mechanics of course) binding contracts would be a great addition to the world of EVE.
But that's a big maybe that CCP plans to do that and even then it would be a neverending Soon(TM)
"No, I'm not alt.....even if I have been in Pator Tech School for 2 years..." |
Trevedian
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Posted - 2004.02.05 01:58:00 -
[23]
New, interesting content!!! Not microsmartbomb II's
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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