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Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:40:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 15/08/2007 11:43:01
 Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
#6?
im not smart enough to understand this, i fear.
and you might wanna take a look at this...
and on another note... it might be interesting to know how much money CCP makes with farmers/isk sellers accounts.
Stackless pythons ate my hamsters! |
Ethaet
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: 000Hunter000
but theres a very big pandora's box u might be opening there.
So i build and sell ravens on occation, ans someone who bought isk from an iskseller used that isk to buy the raven.
then ccp bans the account and deletes all the isk? erm... i would be.. annoyed... to say the least if 90mill isk dissapeared from my wallet 
It would work like this:
ISKBuyingNoob1 has 0 ISK. they buy 100mil
ISKSeller1 gives ISKBuyerNoob1 100mil.
ISKBuyerNoob1 buys a raven from you for 100mil
DEV1 removes 100mil from ISKBuyerNoob1
ISKBuyerNoob1 now has a 100mil negative balance, you still have your cash.
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CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error".
Seems familiar? |
Steini OFSI
Gallente
Minigame
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Posted - 2007.08.15 11:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ngwee
Can you really be so simple Steini?
What hes saying is he wants to entrap ISK sellers on e-bay or whatever choice of ISK selling site you want.
Any account that has added ISK to the last selling account deserves to be banned as they are almost certainly ISK farmers or macroers.
Straightforward
Has my support
I know what he is saying. Did you understand my counterargument?
I'm in no way simple when it comes to analytical thinking although I do not always explain steps taken to reach my conclusion.
First of all, the point of isk selling is to make money, we have people in the world (asia/china most often named) for whom a sum of 100 dollars is quite alot (assume you're buying 500 million isks for 100 dollars). They are the so called farmers.
To buy isk from them from CCP to lay a trap will only enforce their production, sure you'd have a character and can trace some logs and ban few more in the process, their goal has however been reached, money for their work, that beeing said they will only complicate the way assets and isks are beeing moved around and sacrifice a trial character or even characters payed for by GTC wich they are allowed to buy with isks (so trial character upgraded to account with GTC wich is possible if I recall correctly).
So we have a trial farmer, 130 mill for a GTC and then he can achieve his way to 500 million somehow 23/7 hours work and sell it for 100 dollars, get banned and then repeat the process. All in all that farmer is still making money and now it's CCP paying them, this could create negative effect and more farmers would appear.
Economy, the ways money are brought into EVE are following, missions, bounties and insurances, isk is not created any other way, only transferred between players. Mining in it's core (assuming that is the method beeing used to farm isk) will not bring money into economy unless it's minerals are converted into a ship that blows up.
Worst farmers are those who are able to do missions or just simply NPC farm, that is what creates the inflation. Possible solution is nerf bounties. But you see my logic hopefully.
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Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 12:10:00 -
[34]
i said it once, ill say it again:
i think banning alone wont do much good as long as its theoretically legal to sell those isk. and if im not mistaken it IS legal, just not allowed by ccp.
but as long as it is no crime to violate ccps rules... well...
Stackless pythons ate my hamsters! |
Asmosis
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Posted - 2007.08.15 13:51:00 -
[35]
who says CCP isnt already fake buying ISK like this to entrap/reveal farmers?
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Mr Dogg
Nubs.
D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.15 14:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Originally by: Steini OFSI
I don't endorse this idea, it won't stop the problem of isk farmers, they got the money, banned account who cares, maybe only change is that the orders of isks beeing transfer will be bigger to cover the risk.
Its simple:
1. I donate $5 to CCP.
2. CCP goes to www.whereveryouwanttobuyiskfrom.com and buys 50 million ISK or whatever is the smallest and asks for delivery to PlayerA.
3. PlayerA (CCP Dev) receives 50 million ISK from FarmerBoss
4. PlayerA then logs onto SuperDevAccountA and looks up wallet history for FarmerBoss.
5. All outgoing transactions from FarmerBoss are people buying ISK. SuperDevAccountA removes ISK from all said accounts, and issues warnings / bans / whatever they do.
6. All incoming transactions to FarmerBoss are from Farmers A through Z. SuperDevAccountA takes action against Farmers A through Z.
7. SuperDevAccountA checks wallet histories for Farmers A through Z and the domino effect takes effect.
A few donations, and CCP can literally shut down the ISK farming / selling chain on every major (and probably most of the minor) ISK selling websites.
Im pretty sure CCP has dummy accounts all over the web trying to do this very thing on their own dime.
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Anwylyd Al'Vos
Minmatar
Furian Alive
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Posted - 2007.08.15 15:53:00 -
[37]
Okay... firstly, I've never needed to buy ISK, nor have I sold GTC's... but here's the thing. IMO CCP is trying to keep the money "in-house" because the ISK is technically their "property". So, since lazy people, or those that don't have as much time to play as I do, are always going to look for a way to get that extra chunk of change...
Why not add increments of ISK for purchase in the EVE Store? CCP gets the money they deserve/need/want and the players get the ISK they need/want. Win, win, imo.
Sure it won't get rid of all the farmers, but it sure would be easier to manage, and you don't have to get rid of GTC to ISK sales, because I know at least one person that uses it to purchase his time to play EVE. Though a decline in them is likely.
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: - other works |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.08.15 16:09:00 -
[38]
duh
duh duh duh
What happen here?
If CCP Wanted To Catch Isk Buyers They Would Just Set Up Dummy Isk Selling Scams. duh duh duh
Curzon wants my money to go to CCP for stuff they should be doing already, can we all just disagree and move on yet?
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Rabbitual Ferrier
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Posted - 2007.08.15 16:24:00 -
[39]
Alternatively a scheme where you get to keep the isk if your the first one to grass up a Isk seller, everyone else standard punishment - when said Isk Seller gets shut down, and all the iskies recovered.....
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 17:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Anwylyd Al'Vos
Why not add increments of ISK for purchase in the EVE Store? CCP gets the money they deserve/need/want and the players get the ISK they need/want. Win, win, imo.
Actually, that makes the most sense. CCP supports GTC selling for ISK; why not just completely take it to the baseline?
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Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:15:00 -
[41]
i think, because the isk you would buy that way, would basically be created out of nowhere.
the farmed isk at least somehow was part of the economy (you could disrupt their operations, they need ships and so on)
i think theres some major flaw in my logic, but i think i got a point.
Stackless pythons ate my hamsters! |
Jenna Shame
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Posted - 2007.08.15 20:19:00 -
[42]
I'm sorry but the idea is moronic at the basic level.
We shouldn't have to PAY extra for CCP to do their jobs here. CCP should already be doing this sort of thing and shutting these guys down, they claim its awful and ruining their game, well from what I've gathered from some industry posting, CCP makes a tidy profit, and they should be reinvesting into the game just like they put up new hardware or a 7 million dollar add campaign. They could have taken 10k of that add money and shut down a hell of a lot of isk farmers.
Asking us to donate money just shows how far off the deep end you are into this game. This isn't a church, and the god delusion is bad enough, having a CCP delusion is just asinine.
Demand CCP takes action, we all know who the major isk farmer corps are, and obviously CCP should know too, but hey its money. CCP talks a good game, but don't forget they are the same ones who decry isk selling yet allow GTC sales.
What they care about is money, and you don't make money banning accounts unless those accounts are causing you to lose more accounts. Unless people say enough is enough and cancel, there is no reason for CCP to do more than token bannings.
Ban a few accounts, isk farmers buy more, win win!
And another issue to take into account is this isn't a court of law, its a video game. Maybe you don't have 100% proof a guy is an isk farmer, maybe its only 90%, maybe its only that his IP is the same IP you banned 5 accounts from for isk farming, so what. Ban them, at worst someone out there can't play a video game.
Put me in charge of it and I'd have 80% of the isk farmers gone in a month, (and the macro stip miners as well).
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Taipan Gedscho
Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 20:23:00 -
[43]
well said.
Stackless pythons ate my hamsters! |
GreySear
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Posted - 2007.08.16 01:06:00 -
[44]
Anyone who replied and said they'd pay 5$ for this should just take that 5$ buy isk on a trial account and then petition yourself!
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 02:13:00 -
[45]
Originally by: GreySear
Anyone who replied and said they'd pay 5$ for this should just take that 5$ buy isk on a trial account and then petition yourself!
Because you can't give or receive ISK on trial accounts...
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.16 03:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Because you can't give or receive ISK on trial accounts...
You can receive as much ISK as you want.
You just can't send it back out directly (no cash transfer, no direct trade, no deposit in corp accounts).
You can do it indirectly, by buying something off the market (not contracts).
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
hellsknights
Phoenix Navy
Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 05:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Curzon Dax
Originally by: GreySear
Anyone who replied and said they'd pay 5$ for this should just take that 5$ buy isk on a trial account and then petition yourself!
Because you can't give or receive ISK on trial accounts...
You can receive, you just cant give.
Hells
Let me liberate you of your T2 mods. T2 mods are dropping in price, because of invention?? No its because of pirates. |
Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.16 05:14:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Vrizuh
Farmers are clever bastards at a group level. I wouldnt be surprised if some of the employees also know how to play. That would mean you might be up against traders. Which would mean an almost p2p model of isk transfer, so convoluted, and so connected to potential innocent players, that you may only net a few of the mining accounts and a tonne of trial alts each time you try.
I prefer a more pvp model. Continue the GTC trade. Look at how quickly they buy and sell. That is a lot of reduced business for isk sellers.
Actually GTC prices have been coming up and up for the past 5 months. Since farmers have discovered how to use the new contract system and some of their corps got acceptance and protection in 0.0 space, they have been farming more ISK than ever, making it cheaper to buy.
For all those of you who are wondering why anyone would buy ISK consider that while GTCs are easily available farmers sell their ISK about 3 times cheaper. If you're a regular ISK buyer, which would you choose - spending $100 a month or $300 a month on your ISK? I think the answer is clear.
ISK farmers selling their ISK cheaper and cheaper coupled with the fact that people are getting away with buying ISK from them made fewer and fewer people buy GTCs. Supply for GTCs decreased while demand kept same and prices went up about 15% going over 200/400m for 30/90 day codes some days. So anyone who has been paying for their game with ISK has to pay more now.
I do not think CCP is interested in doing away with the farmers. For one, they hold many active accounts. For another, a lot of people need to buy ISK to enjoy the game. First you ban most of the active ISK farming accounts that actually buy GTCs with ISK and their regular buyers. Then their ISK becomes less available to buy and more risky to buy. Then the regular ISK buyers go buy GTCs instead. Demand for GTCs decreases as there are fewer active accounts around, supply of GTCs increases, prices on GTCs in terms of ISK would plumet. Those people who buy ISK with real life cash would have to pay may be 5x of what they are paying now in cash to get the same sum. They'll buy less ISK, won't enjoy the game as much, and as a result deactivate their accounts. So completely doing away with ISK farmers might not be in CCP's best interest.
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