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What if we paid the devs to buy ISK?

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Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.14 11:58:00 - [1] I won't pretend to know any numbers... But I think that there's a few people...or more than a few people perhaps who, given the opportunity, would buy the lowest possible increment of ISK, file a petition about it, and hope to see a chain of bannings take place that didn't involve their own account (except for having the ISK removed). Its a EULA violation to do so, which is why we can't. If CCP had a "Donate" button, with the explicit purpose of using said donations to buy those incremental amounts of ISK and take action on it... It would circumvent the entire need to petition farmers. :) A DEV account (well, not named CCP XXXXX) could buy ISK, and have a HUGE record of where the ISK came from to act on. The person who sold you ISK probably got the ISK from another account; the wallet history of both accounts would incriminate everyone in a chain of ISK farmers (both buyers and sellers). Personally, I'd donate $5.
TheJacko Gallente Ardent Adversary Anvil.	Posted - 2007.08.14 12:00:00 - [2] i would donate nothing because i dont work :P
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.14 12:00:00 - [3] You can just tell its downtime.
Taipan Gedscho Muzzletov Gewaltski Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.14 12:03:00 - [4] Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 14/08/2007 12:04:38 i think the whole problem is... no matter what ccp puts in their eula, it might be perfectly legal to sell isk.... sure they can ban you, but they cant sue you. so the isk sellers wont stop. oh, and curzon, youre the ****nit! /me hums "my nanoboat is far to slow my drones dont know which way to go" my girl knows i play eve, but that doesnt stop her from giving me the funny looks when i sing your crap while in the kitchen... edit : yeah im a fanboi yet another edit: with mmorpgs bein a fast growing industry, we might see laws on the matter someday... freaky... Stackless pythons ate my hamsters!
Jenna Shame	Posted - 2007.08.14 12:24:00 - [5] Curzon stick to singing. Thinking isn't your strong point.
JCLawson UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:19:00 - [6] You can, buy GTCs.
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:23:00 - [7] Originally by: JCLawson You can, buy GTCs. You can't read, must be so hard to be you. As for your idea Curzon, I quite like it, only its a lot of admin for CCP potentially.
doseph Freedom Builders Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:35:00 - [8] Edited by: doseph on 14/08/2007 16:38:41
Steini OFSI Gallente Minigame	Posted - 2007.08.14 16:57:00 - [9] I don't endorse this idea, it won't stop the problem of isk farmers, they got the money, banned account who cares, maybe only change is that the orders of isks beeing transfer will be bigger to cover the risk.
Ngwee Gallente 7 SAI	Posted - 2007.08.14 17:53:00 - [10] Can you really be so simple Steini? What hes saying is he wants to entrap ISK sellers on e-bay or whatever choice of ISK selling site you want. Any account that has added ISK to the last selling account deserves to be banned as they are almost certainly ISK farmers or macroers. Straightforward Has my support
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.14 22:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Steini OFSI I don't endorse this idea, it won't stop the problem of isk farmers, they got the money, banned account who cares, maybe only change is that the orders of isks beeing transfer will be bigger to cover the risk. Its simple: 1. I donate $5 to CCP. 2. CCP goes to www.whereveryouwanttobuyiskfrom.com and buys 50 million ISK or whatever is the smallest and asks for delivery to PlayerA. 3. PlayerA (CCP Dev) receives 50 million ISK from FarmerBoss 4. PlayerA then logs onto SuperDevAccountA and looks up wallet history for FarmerBoss. 5. All outgoing transactions from FarmerBoss are people buying ISK. SuperDevAccountA removes ISK from all said accounts, and issues warnings / bans / whatever they do. 6. All incoming transactions to FarmerBoss are from Farmers A through Z. SuperDevAccountA takes action against Farmers A through Z. 7. SuperDevAccountA checks wallet histories for Farmers A through Z and the domino effect takes effect. A few donations, and CCP can literally shut down the ISK farming / selling chain on every major (and probably most of the minor) ISK selling websites.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.08.14 22:19:00 - [12] I'd pay five bucks for something like that. I think CCP should also name and shame ISK buyers even if they don't get banned. SEARCh- we find sites for you!
Jarah Tatarin Minmatar Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.	Posted - 2007.08.14 22:24:00 - [13] Originally by: Curzon Dax 7. SuperDevAccountA checks wallet histories for Farmers A through Z and the domino effect takes effect. Theoraticly, what if I ransom Farmer A 200m ISK 1 hour before banning takes place? In the wallet logs it will show that Farmer A donated 200m to Jarah Tatarin. That means that the devs would think that Im a ISKbuyer and therefore ban my account! This is just one example I came to think of, but if there is a solution to these kind of things then I would /sign the idea. Im not a rasist, I got a color Teve!
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.14 22:54:00 - [14] Fair enough... But I don't think anyone GIVES ISK to the farmers...
Goonswarmalwayslose	Posted - 2007.08.14 22:58:00 - [15] A game where you can pay money to get an advantage in the game, is just stupid. If you want to really fix the macro isk selling problem, get rid of alts. Cant spam isk when you have only one account .
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.14 23:08:00 - [16] well i support CCP buying isk to catch farmers, this will do two things, one is kill off a bunch of farmers, second is that anyone wanting to sell isk will have the Risk of possibly buying isk from CCP and getting banned withing minutes. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards
Divideby0 Gallente Amalgamated Industries	Posted - 2007.08.15 00:31:00 - [17] The problem in setting up a CCP-sanctioned sting OP is usually ISK sellers have a clause in their agreement that says "I swear that I am not a CCP employee, affiliate, family member, or stool pigeon.. etc." That clause is there so the ISK seller can sue you for causing harm to his business. ...then again, if you lived in a country where you couldn't be sued... Hmmmm. Who is the bigger carebear: The miner who braves lowsec on his own, or the "PvPer" who attacks an unarmed ship? I support the f
iudex Caldari Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.15 01:59:00 - [18] It's a nice idea but i don't think this would stop the sellers. The only thing they would have to do is to change transaction methods to non-trackable payments. For example payments are made in Jita, isk-seller buys 103430 Megacyte (or something similar where buy/sell prices are very close to each other and that has a big market), warps to a savespot, gangs up with isk-buyer, jettison the goods, isk-buyer collects them, warps to station and sells them. Ofc. thats not that comfortable, both have to be online at same time - but those who really want buy/sell could do it this way. And in this case the isk-seller only had to risk a 14 day trial acc without any donation entries, if he got the isk on this trial the same way.
Bankotsu Li Minmatar Terran Robotics Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.08.15 02:36:00 - [19] /me is a Curzon Dax fanboi and listens to "EVE Online Is For BOB" daily. Keep up the good work m8. That said.... Originally by: Jarah Tatarin Theoraticly, what if I ransom Farmer A... blah blah blah Jarah, have you even seen ISK Farmers before? You see 2,3082,947 Hulks in an ice field or an astroid belt and they're all named FKHSD001, FKHSD002, and so on. These would be your Farmers A through Z. I'm quite certain that FarmerBoss isn't going out in space to risk anything, so you won't be ransoming any of the Farmers OR the FarmerBoss. Aside from all that, they're nearly always in high-sec systems, and will always belong to n00b corps. I know there are the occational Farming corps that make their way into 0.0 alliances, but they aren't the ones we need to worry about (and if they're donating ISK to FarmerBoss, they'll get nailed in the sting as well... we can only hope). The 0.0 farmers are usually individuals running macro programs and either farming for themselves, or for something else other than selling ISK for profit. While these 0.0 Macroers are a pain in the rear and irritating as all hell, they are only a small percentage. Besides, macroers won't pay ransoms since they're probably not paying attention to you. They're AFK Ratting/Mining - hence the macro. Now, if all that isn't enough, and by some weird chance you DO manage to find said FarmerBoss and ransom him, there will be chat logs and combat logs to prove it. I support this idea. "The day you underestimate your opponent is the day you die."
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.15 03:32:00 - [20] OR you could do it in a different way, one that can even get the ISK seller disclaimers out of the way. Each player gets to report UNPUNISHED any ISK purchases he made. Well, by "unpunished", I mean just that the removal of ISK from his wallet is the ONLY thing that will be done to him, or held against him. Whenever an ISK seller "line" is detected, the seller gets BANNED (and all those linked to it as an ISK source). As for the POSSIBLE buyers (everybody who interacted financially AT ALL with any banned accounts recently), they get an official notification about "suspected involvement in ISK purchases" (with no details about the suspected transaction), and a chance to admit it for no extra punishment. If they can't supply an official explanation, and there's a good reason "fine them" in-game with more ISK as they bought in the first place... or even worse, for larger and/or periodic transactions, issue temporary bans for buyers that DIDN'T report the purchases. Then, stop advertising the "most wanted" people on CONCORD boards, and start advertising ALL OF THIS in-game instead. It's not entrapment. CCP itself is not doing anything. You do it. You get to "confess your sins", the ones you "didn't know about", and not be held accountable. Of course, there will be a lot of "false positives" in the notifications, but that's what they are, just notifications. However, if it's eventually proven you bought some, and you gave no explanation as to why it appears to be so yet you actually didn't... then, well, you get punished (in varying degrees depending on gravity, from minus ISK to temp bans). So it's a win-win situation... for CCP, anyway. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Filthy Pierre Gallente Laughing Fox Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.15 08:03:00 - [21] A reasonable suggestion, young Dax. Won't fly though because of the peculiar disconnect that exists between CCP and the customer base when it comes to any risk of real time dialog between the two groups. (No, I'm not slagging CCP, I'm merely observing that the customer support model used by CCP is very novel compared to those used by most software companies with a large user base. Mind you, I can see how it saves them money...) If it wasn't for the disconnect I could envision CCP getting together with the user base and setting up a CCP-sanctioned/supported Farmer hit squad. FP
Oak Rayven	Posted - 2007.08.15 08:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Goonswarmalwayslose A game where you can pay money to get an advantage in the game, is just stupid. If you want to really fix the macro isk selling problem, get rid of alts. Cant spam isk when you have only one account . They Use Trial Accounts For That.
Oak Rayven	Posted - 2007.08.15 08:15:00 - [23] I find it Ironic that with people selling GTCs for ISK theirs even that mutch of a market for ISK farming.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.08.15 09:27:00 - [24] We already pay CCP to do their job. They have sufficient tools to deal with farming and isk sales anyway. They choose NOT to deal the problem because "the problem" makes them too much money. And you want to give them more? I think you should give them more. Just so I don't have to.
ry ry StateCorp The State	Posted - 2007.08.15 09:35:00 - [25] Originally by: Oak Rayven I find it Ironic that with people selling GTCs for ISK theirs even that mutch of a market for ISK farming. i was just thinking that - i wonder how much isk selling actually goes on in Eve. besides, i'm sure it'd be simple enough to create a harder chain to follow than just transferring isk between account. buying masses of assets with fairly stable values, whilst remaining cash-poor and liquidating assets as required, for example.
Arrunca Minmatar Fusion Mercenaries Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.08.15 10:14:00 - [26] I think its a brilliant idea. What most fail to see is the extend CCP will be able to ban isk farmers. Its not just the easy remade trail-accounts they hit. The isk seller has to get the isk from somewhere else. This will be years old BS flying accounts and very skilled miner accounts. The good thing about EVE is that it will take months to remake such an account. This will not only cost em literally billions of isk, but also shut down sales for a long period.
Raem Civrie Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.08.15 10:23:00 - [27] Originally by: Divideby0 The problem in setting up a CCP-sanctioned sting OP is usually ISK sellers have a clause in their agreement that says "I swear that I am not a CCP employee, affiliate, family member, or stool pigeon.. etc." That clause is there so the ISK seller can sue you for causing harm to his business. ...then again, if you lived in a country where you couldn't be sued... Hmmmm. Actually, no, you can't be sued. It's a huge urban legend that if you put a "By entering this site you confirm that you are not a federal agent" will actually do anything in a court of law. Same goes for private entities (actually, more so for private entities). And even if that was legally binding, the ISK sellers THEMSELVES would've agreed to a legally binding contract when they entered EVE called the EULA. Which agreement was agreed on first? That's right, the EULA. Armchair lawyering ftl. It doesn't work like that. An oral contract without witnesses, or a written contract without signatures are not contracts at all. ---- All you do is bark, you never meow
Onchas Erivvia Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2007.08.15 10:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 14/08/2007 12:04:38 i think the whole problem is... no matter what ccp puts in their eula, it might be perfectly legal to sell isk.... sure they can ban you, but they cant sue you. so the isk sellers wont stop. oh, and curzon, youre the ****nit! /me hums "my nanoboat is far to slow my drones dont know which way to go" my girl knows i play eve, but that doesnt stop her from giving me the funny looks when i sing your crap while in the kitchen... edit : yeah im a fanboi yet another edit: with mmorpgs bein a fast growing industry, we might see laws on the matter someday... freaky... #6? ------------------------------------------ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"' Teh Onchinator' Personal Assistant to MrsPitman "We got schooled last night but meh" - Suas
Vrizuh Eve Defence Force Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.08.15 11:17:00 - [29] Farmers are clever bastards at a group level. I wouldnt be surprised if some of the employees also know how to play. That would mean you might be up against traders. Which would mean an almost p2p model of isk transfer, so convoluted, and so connected to potential innocent players, that you may only net a few of the mining accounts and a tonne of trial alts each time you try. I prefer a more pvp model. Continue the GTC trade. Look at how quickly they buy and sell. That is a lot of reduced business for isk sellers.
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.08.15 11:29:00 - [30] but theres a very big pandora's box u might be opening there. So i build and sell ravens on occation, ans someone who bought isk from an iskseller used that isk to buy the raven. then ccp bans the account and deletes all the isk? erm... i would be.. annoyed... to say the least if 90mill isk dissapeared from my wallet CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.

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