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Professor Bunsen Optech Scientific	Posted - 2007.08.15 10:17:00 - [1] Background Optech Scientific was formed on 1st March 2007. It forms a central plank of my overarching strategy to form a multinational business empire. The corporation's first public investment was the successful Optech Startup Fund (Eve-O thread here). Building on this initial success was OPTUT (Eve-O thread here) New Edens first public Unit Trust which returned 75% profits over 2 months (results thread). Following a brief period of intensive psychotherapy to deal with "issues" surrounding capital ship production, I have returned to my quarters onboard my flagship Ibis at Isanamo, re-invigorated by my sabattical. Eve-Index launching Over the next few days Optech will be launching Eve-Index, to my knowledge the first opportunity for the pilots of New Eden to bet on the 21st Century stock indexes called the FTSE100 and Dow Jones Industrial. Bets (in isk) will run over a weekly period and players will be able to match their financial wits against the fickle international markets, betting on either a rising or falling market over the week. The scale of winnings (or losses) will depend on how far the index moves, but every bet will have a stop limit (initially up to 50 mil isk)which will be paid up front. Consequently bad debt will not be an issue. How will Optech profit? Optech as the 100% owner of Eve-Index will act as bookmaker. Optech will profit from a small 5% commission on winnings, and of course if the player predicts the market wrongly Optech wins up to 100% of their stake limit. There is a further 1% handling charge on Eve-Index account withdrawals to cover admin time and reduce transaction "churn". What could go wrong? If players consistently predict the index movements correctly they could "break the bank". All betting liability for each weekly round will be 100% covered by Optech financial reserves (initially we will limit our betting exposure to 500mil of risk per week and not accept betting liability over this limit) so players who win will always be paid. However if players consistently and uncannily always bet correctly our reserves will run out of isk and Eve-Index will cease trading. We are aiming for 5 bil in capital at the outset which would enable us to weather 10 consequetive weeks of 500mil losses. Historical data shows the indexes rise (or fall)on the week approximately 50% of the time, so the chance of a player getting 10 consequetive wins by chance alone is 0.5^10 The maximum loss per week for investors is therefore 500mil0.95 (commission) i.e. 475mil, the maximum gain is 500 mil/week i.e. 10% (if we raise our target 5 bil via the IPO) Is there demand for Financial Index Betting?* Truth be told I don't know for sure, but clearly I'm expecting there is. If theres no bets there's no profits and no risk to the capital, but that self imposed 500 mil a week liability limit is just 10 punters betting the maximum limit of 50 mil. My guess is a lot of players may well take a flutter with isk for fun. Effectively investors in the IPO are doing the same ! Optech Scientific Data Feed
Professor Bunsen Optech Scientific	Posted - 2007.08.15 10:18:00 - [2] Scamming risk Yes its there, and is impossible to control with this type of venture. OPTUT had over 10 bil of funds under management when it was wound up so I've had my hands on similar amounts of public money before without scamming, but I may have gone bad since then. Cautionary note Clearly Eve-Index may make a lot of money or lose a lot. I'm going to play it straight down the line with investors and punters, but unlike a lot of Eve investments which are pretty much a one way bet (scamming aside its hard to lose money in Eve trading unless you take big chances) the value of OPTECH shares is going to rock about a lot. The share value is actually going to increase and decrease on this one (opportunities on the secondary market anyone?) so caveat emptor! The bottom line I'm looking to sell 5-10 bil worth of shares in OPTECH to launch Eve-Index as outlined above. Shares priced at 1 mil per share, blocks of 50 shares please. I intend to apply for a stock market listing in due course. Isk for share purchases to "Utility Bot". Any takers? Flames, share reservations, ridicule all welcome Bunsen Optech Scientific Data Feed
Fury Banker Fury Bank	Posted - 2007.08.15 12:41:00 - [3] OK, I have a few questions about this. I have mixed feelings on whether to invest. On the plus side I don't have a problem trusting you with some ISK - I made a nice profit on your last venture (investment was with my freighter alt Widebodied Load). On the downside I can see some issues which may not mkae this very profitable to invest in. Enough of the waffle, on with the questions: 1. What period will betting be open for? I'm assuming bets are made AFTER the week has started (otherwise betters can't reuse funds from the previous week). Even if betting is open for only a day after the week has started, investors stand to lose out on the week if some major event happens affecting stock markets on that day. Having too small window to bet in, on the other hand, would tend to reduce participation. 2. I note wins/losses are limited to 50 million per person. Do you think there's enough people who have an interest in the stock markets AND want to only gamble 50 million? How do you plan to reach a wider market - I'd guess most people who regularly frequent this forum aren't going to bother betting 50 million? 3. On the subject of 50 million max loss per person, is it the case that I could bet 5 billion per point for the market falling - and so effectively have a 100% gamble on a fall (any fall I win 47.5 million, any rise I lose 50 million)? Your example is for a 1 million per point bet - is there a maximum bet per point? Or is the only bet allowed a 1 million per point bet? 4. Given that you're looking for 5 billion investment, but only 500 million (max) is at risk each week, what do you plan to do with the 4.5 billion that's not at risk? It looks like only 10% of the money you raise will actually be put to use (risked) unless you do badly. If you do well (or even OK) then 90% of invested funds would be sitting around doing nothing. Or were you planning to trade, invest, deposit in a bank or whatever with the rest? The general problems I can see with the scheme are: 1. Target market is probably small - and may not be easily reached. The maximum limit is way too small for people in this forum - and the subject betted on probably not of interest to most people frequenting the sales order forums. 2. Capital is under-utilised. 3. Unless bets have to be placed before the week starts (which has its own problems) the fund becomes very susceptible if anything substantial happens on the stock markets while betting is open. If I were to bet (and I wouldn't bother if the limit was 50 million) then I'd just wait till near the end of betting and bet on a market rise/fall if the market had already moved substantially in one direction - and not bet that week if it hadn't significantly moved yet. Most of the problems could be worked around by making it into a Tote system - where betters were betting against one another, with you taking a slice off the top for admin purposes (betting pool split between those who picked the right direction - with, if you wanted, people able to specify point-ranges they wanted exposure on). Of course you'd then have no need for capital (or share-holders) which would pretty much negate the whole point of having an IPO.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:12:00 - [4] imo, based upon what he's done so far, i believe that if this venture DIDN'T make isk, that the good professor would find a way TO make profits with that isk. can i send my cash now to reserve? can i go ahead and post to reserve? and i may have missed it, but can multiple toons of mine invest? at any rate, if i can reserve, i'd like to go ahead and put the 50m max.
Fury Banker Fury Bank	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd imo, based upon what he's done so far, i believe that if this venture DIDN'T make isk, that the good professor would find a way TO make profits with that isk. can i send my cash now to reserve? can i go ahead and post to reserve? and i may have missed it, but can multiple toons of mine invest? at any rate, if i can reserve, i'd like to go ahead and put the 50m max. There's no 50 million max on investment - that restriction is on liability per wager.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:27:00 - [6] Originally by: Fury Banker Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd imo, based upon what he's done so far, i believe that if this venture DIDN'T make isk, that the good professor would find a way TO make profits with that isk. can i send my cash now to reserve? can i go ahead and post to reserve? and i may have missed it, but can multiple toons of mine invest? at any rate, if i can reserve, i'd like to go ahead and put the 50m max. There's no 50 million max on investment - that restriction is on liability per wager. it's both actually. The bottom line I'm looking to sell 5-10 bil worth of shares in OPTECH to launch Eve-Index as outlined above. Shares priced at 1 mil per share, blocks of 50 shares please. I intend to apply for a stock market listing in due course. Isk for share purchases directed to "Professor Bunsen" please.
Professor Bunsen Optech Scientific	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Fury Banker 1. What period will betting be open for? I'm assuming bets are made AFTER the week has started (otherwise betters can't reuse funds from the previous week). Even if betting is open for only a day after the week has started, investors stand to lose out on the week if some major event happens affecting stock markets on that day. Having too small window to bet in, on the other hand, would tend to reduce participation. Each betting period will be a full financial week, i.e. market opens on Monday to close on Friday. Bets will be placed (blind) at the weekend before the market opens and the opening index price is whatever the market opens at according to Yahoo financial pages (they have nice downloadable historical market info). Similarly I will go by Yahoo's close price at the end of the week. That means that the full extent of your account deposit at Eve-Index is available for betting, and that bets are necessarily 100% covered. Originally by: Fury Banker 2. I note wins/losses are limited to 50 million per person. Do you think there's enough people who have an interest in the stock markets AND want to only gamble 50 million? How do you plan to reach a wider market - I'd guess most people who regularly frequent this forum aren't going to bother betting 50 million? Yes bet limits are low initially, depending on the capitalization resulting from the OPTECH float and experience of running the venture the intention is to raise the limit of course. I'm trying to ensure that a bad run initially doesn't wipe out the start capital before the house odds (commission) generate some return. Originally by: Fury Banker 3. On the subject of 50 million max loss per person, is it the case that I could bet 5 billion per point for the market falling - and so effectively have a 100% gamble on a fall (any fall I win 47.5 million, any rise I lose 50 million)? Your example is for a 1 million per point bet - is there a maximum bet per point? Or is the only bet allowed a 1 million per point bet? Yes bets of more than 1 mil per pt are fine, but the max limit per bet of 50 mil holds for now. If you bet 2 mil per pt you would effectively hit 100% won at a rise of 25 pts. Optech Scientific Data Feed
Professor Bunsen Optech Scientific	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Fury Banker 4. Given that you're looking for 5 billion investment, but only 500 million (max) is at risk each week, what do you plan to do with the 4.5 billion that's not at risk? It looks like only 10% of the money you raise will actually be put to use (risked) unless you do badly. If you do well (or even OK) then 90% of invested funds would be sitting around doing nothing. Or were you planning to trade, invest, deposit in a bank or whatever with the rest? As above, the intention is to cautiously raise the limit on bet liability in line with experience. I've quoted a 500mil weekly liability working on a possible 10 week run of bad luck (for OPTECH) but if capitalisation was higher I would intend to keep max liability each week at about 10%, so if 6 bil shares sold, 600mil liability. Originally by: Fury Banker Most of the problems could be worked around by making it into a Tote system - where betters were betting against one another, with you taking a slice off the top for admin purposes (betting pool split between those who picked the right direction - When I talk about betting liability for the week I mean a net liability. If there's 500 mil of punters money betting on a rising index, and 500 mil on a falling one theres a net liability of zero. As far as demand goes, there's no way to test that apart from getting the feet wet. I accept that a 50mil bet limit is peanuts to the industrial giants of this forum, but I'm not necessarily targeting those individuals, my market pyramid is broader at the base. Market giants might well prefer to buy a bil of stock in OPTECH and have the benfit of the house edge! Thanks for the constructive discussion btw. Bunsen Optech Scientific Data Feed
Professor Bunsen Optech Scientific	Posted - 2007.08.15 14:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd it's both actually. The bottom line I'm looking to sell 5-10 bil worth of shares in OPTECH to launch Eve-Index as outlined above. Shares priced at 1 mil per share, blocks of 50 shares please. I intend to apply for a stock market listing in due course. Isk for share purchases directed to "Professor Bunsen" please. To clarify, interms of the IPO there is no limit to amount of shares purchased by one individual, I simply want to sell blocks of 50 shares for 50 mil each, so fill your boots! I intend to buy 1 bil worth of shares myself (money where mouth is) and feel I could launch Eve-Index with 5bil capitalisation and up. If the IPO generates more than 4 bil of public money then I can raise betting limits and weekly liability accordingly. And yes I'm open for share purchases as of now, isk to the Prof please, I will keep isk for bets (when Eve-Index opens) on "Utility Bot" my trusty financial drone. Optech Scientific Data Feed
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.16 16:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Professor Bunsen Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd it's both actually. The bottom line I'm looking to sell 5-10 bil worth of shares in OPTECH to launch Eve-Index as outlined above. Shares priced at 1 mil per share, blocks of 50 shares please. I intend to apply for a stock market listing in due course. Isk for share purchases directed to "Professor Bunsen" please. To clarify, interms of the IPO there is no limit to amount of shares purchased by one individual, I simply want to sell blocks of 50 shares for 50 mil each, so fill your boots! I intend to buy 1 bil worth of shares myself (money where mouth is) and feel I could launch Eve-Index with 5bil capitalisation and up. If the IPO generates more than 4 bil of public money then I can raise betting limits and weekly liability accordingly. And yes I'm open for share purchases as of now, isk to the Prof please, I will keep isk for bets (when Eve-Index opens) on "Utility Bot" my trusty financial drone. i have issues reading with comprehension sometimes. like, if i see the word 'elf' in a thread, i think it's an elf thread and lock it.
Auri Hella The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.16 20:52:00 - [11] Not to sound cheap, but you mentioned free shares for those who invested in you at the very beginning. I see no mention of this in your proposal.
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.16 21:11:00 - [12] So does it mean I am getting free shares, or will you make the wardec this time? Good luck in this new project. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware - Oveur
Marie deMedici	Posted - 2007.08.16 23:03:00 - [13] i thought betting isk on out-of-the-game events was forbidden. Betting on in-game was ok.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.16 23:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Marie deMedici i thought betting isk on out-of-the-game events was forbidden. Betting on in-game was ok. forbidden by? pretty sure those casinos in/out game are um...
TornSoul BIG	Posted - 2007.08.17 04:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Marie deMedici i thought betting isk on out-of-the-game events was forbidden. Betting on in-game was ok. forbidden by? pretty sure those casinos in/out game are um... Ppl have before tried to arrange betting on out of game events - Soccer world championships etc. They've politely been told by CCP to desist. A full blown casino even got shut down because it used "credits" and not ISK as betting value Iirc it was a cross game casino, so the credits could be interchanged between the games - Dont think it ever got around to actaully do other games than EVE though. This fact might have been a major reason for the order to close up shop as well. I'm not aware if CCP has changed their ruling on this (betting on out of game events) or not - But I'd be surprised if they werent still the same. BIG Lottery [url
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.17 06:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Fury Banker 1. Target market is probably small - and may not be easily reached. The maximum limit is way too small for people in this forum - and the subject betted on probably not of interest to most people frequenting the sales order forums. You know I would have agreed with you approximately 40 hours ago. But I have since been introduced to a gambling ring in Eve, where people are playing Texas Hold Em sometimes running 1b+ stakes per buy-in. I never knew there was a market for such a thing, and am pleasantly surprised that it does exist as I have been able to have some original fun in Eve well outside the normal scope of operations. But yeh, Tornsoul, I guess the EBANK will operate under a similar mechanic, as funds will be transferable beween player accounts inthe EBANK. CCP can't really tell us to shut that kind of thing down, as companies like EGSE for example have been using similar setups for over a year. I sent Kieron an email about this 24 hours ago, and just waiting to see what he thinks on the matter. Interesting idea though.
TornSoul BIG	Posted - 2007.08.17 07:26:00 - [17] As per my understanding: As long as you deal in ISK (or ISK derivates ie. minerals, BP'c etc)), and ISK only - You're OK As long as you don't rely on some kind of "content" (RL stock closing value, soccer games etc) that can't be influenced from ingame (I think thats the definition), then you're OK. Dont see EBANK beeing in trouble with any of those. BIG Lottery [url
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.17 10:29:00 - [18] Originally by: TornSoul As per my understanding: As long as you deal in ISK (or ISK derivates ie. minerals, BP'c etc)), and ISK only - You're OK As long as you don't rely on some kind of "content" (RL stock closing value, soccer games etc) that can't be influenced from ingame (I think thats the definition), then you're OK. Dont see EBANK beeing in trouble with any of those. So all of the lotteries which rely on an out of game lottery to pick the winning number should be banned? I've seen plenty of them advertised on sell forums - and yet to see one locked by the mods because it's betting on out of game events (yes, I know the BIG lottery doesn't do that - so this isn't a dig at you). Seems like a certain lack of consistency there if what you're saying is correct.
TornSoul BIG	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:07:00 - [19] Edited by: TornSoul on 17/08/2007 11:11:32 Originally by: FastLearner Seems like a certain lack of consistency there if what you're saying is correct. coughNot too surprised I hope?cough Yeah I'm aware of those lotteries - and not quite sure whats up with those. If CCP is simply turning a blind eye in those cases, or actaully have a policy down on that. And tbh, I havent followed them close enough to see if any of them actually have done their drawings or got shut down first (I kinda shun the sell forums... ) I do know for a fact that someone trying to set up betting on some out of game game (I believe it was soccer) got shut down because it was an out of game "thing". Also the casino story and the reason why it was shut down I know for certain, is I inquired specifically about it, as I had (/have) my own plans for a Casino (this incident is quite some time ago if you try to look for it). Note, the mods would not (are not allowed to) discuss the specific reason why X or Y got shut down, but my inquery was such as to get the "rules" by which such a casino could be run, and it was pretty simple to deduce the rest. BIG Lottery [url
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:30:00 - [20] where EXACTLY are those rules, anyone know? i.e. quote
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd where EXACTLY are those rules, anyone know? i.e. quote I'd guess the reasoning behind it is two-fold: 1. It's an easy mechanism by which ISK-selling can be transacted without leaving obvious traces (just make up losing bets to justify transferral of huge sums). 2. It totally removes the "suspension of disbelief" which CCP would like people to have while playing the game (as do their own various nerfs - but that's a different discussion). Moving back towards the OP a bit, as we've drifted on a bit of a tangent, I suspect the market for betting would be rather higher if the topic for betting was in some way dependent on in-game actions anyway - such as the average price of Tritanium in Jita for example. The problem with that is, of course, that there then exists the possibility to manipulate events so as to make a bet win. That could be negated by a Tote system - where the risk isn't taken on by the share-holders - but then it stops being an IPO due to not needing public funding.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Professor Bunsen When I talk about betting liability for the week I mean a net liability. If there's 500 mil of punters money betting on a rising index, and 500 mil on a falling one theres a net liability of zero. Similarly, if there's 1 bil betting on a rise, and 1.2 bil on a fall net liability is 200 mil so I can keep taking bets. Fury Banker is one of my alts (or I'm one of his) - just clarifying this to avoid confusion, as it was my post you were responding to. I realised you were talking about net liability. You are, however, not correct (or have greatly oversimplified) your examples of net liability. Take the one with 500 million bet on both ways. Your claim that there's no net liability is only true IF they've bet identical amounts per point. If, for example, the ones betting on a rising market had all bet 2 million per point and the ones betting on a falling market had all bet 1 million per point then your net liability is actually 250 million (which you'd lose if the market rose by exactly 25 points).
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:55:00 - [23] Originally by: FastLearner Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd where EXACTLY are those rules, anyone know? i.e. quote I'd guess the reasoning behind it is two-fold: 1. It's an easy mechanism by which ISK-selling can be transacted without leaving obvious traces (just make up losing bets to justify transferral of huge sums). 2. It totally removes the "suspension of disbelief" which CCP would like people to have while playing the game (as do their own various nerfs - but that's a different discussion). Moving back towards the OP a bit, as we've drifted on a bit of a tangent, I suspect the market for betting would be rather higher if the topic for betting was in some way dependent on in-game actions anyway - such as the average price of Tritanium in Jita for example. The problem with that is, of course, that there then exists the possibility to manipulate events so as to make a bet win. That could be negated by a Tote system - where the risk isn't taken on by the share-holders - but then it stops being an IPO due to not needing public funding. so where's the ingame events, stock market, lottery, etc that one can be certain won't be influenced by anything? please don't tell me those tourneys either, that's a load of bull**** there.
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: FastLearner Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd where EXACTLY are those rules, anyone know? i.e. quote I'd guess the reasoning behind it is two-fold: 1. It's an easy mechanism by which ISK-selling can be transacted without leaving obvious traces (just make up losing bets to justify transferral of huge sums). 2. It totally removes the "suspension of disbelief" which CCP would like people to have while playing the game (as do their own various nerfs - but that's a different discussion). Moving back towards the OP a bit, as we've drifted on a bit of a tangent, I suspect the market for betting would be rather higher if the topic for betting was in some way dependent on in-game actions anyway - such as the average price of Tritanium in Jita for example. The problem with that is, of course, that there then exists the possibility to manipulate events so as to make a bet win. That could be negated by a Tote system - where the risk isn't taken on by the share-holders - but then it stops being an IPO due to not needing public funding. so where's the ingame events, stock market, lottery, etc that one can be certain won't be influenced by anything? please don't tell me those tourneys either, that's a load of bull**** there. I wasn't trying to justify their decision - just looking at why they made it. I totally agree that there's a lack of "real" background in Eve: role-playing stories which have no in-game impact aside. Betting pools on events where the people gambling couldn't influence the results COULD be created - but then you'd be having to base them on trivial things (whether the last digit of a certain regional average price or daily traded volume is odd/even etc). The problem is finding something to bet on which: a) Requires skill/judgement in assessing the outcome, b) All (or the vast majority) of the betting participants can't affect the outcome. And that's where we hit a stone-wall. At one extreme we have lotteries, at the other futures markets which can be manipulated. We have nothing sitting right in the middle of the range ingame on which to wager. In part that's down to weak game mechanics (so far in the future and computerised trading systems still can't auto-adjust buy/sell prices without human input?), in part to the market being relatively small - and easily manipulated by a few rich players given an incentive.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:31:00 - [25] so we're back to my original question -- where's the rule that says what optech is proposing is wrong? mods have locked several threads in this forum since this thread started. they've chosen to not lock this one, which to me, would indicate it's not breaking any rules.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.08.17 19:31:00 - [26] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd mods have locked several threads in this forum since this thread started. they've chosen to not lock this one, which to me, would indicate it's not breaking any rules. That's like saying, "Well I've seen a couple of police cars and none of them have cared that I'm driving 90 mph." Threads that have been locked have been locked because the mods, who locked them, knew the topic was over/ended/inappropriate. However, in equal measure, it is hard to know if this is appropriate or inappropriate and it is up to the OP to contact CCP about that. IMHO shelf this portion of the conversation and talk about the proposal as yall are doing nothing but never ending supposition and derailing his efforts to create this opportunity. Even if he later gets a cease and desist request Bunsen has proven trustworthy enough to return the funds so... ... It's A GIRL!!!!!
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.17 19:51:00 - [27] already sent him some iskies as soon as i realized he was taking isk.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.18 02:46:00 - [28] Originally by: TornSoul aware of those lotteries .. have a policy down on that In my understanding CCP doesn't like fixed public _detailed_ policies in dealings with players; mostly because it would be very hard avoid constant 'X got this, I have to get it too' (I still hope they would opt for publicizing all those decisions..) Yet, in this matter the policy has seemed pretty clear: no ISK bets on out of game events. Lotteries are not really breaking this rule when they use out of game source for randomness (not much different from random key inputs in BIG method). The source is not important; the people wouldn't mind much if National UK lottery was switched to Canadian one. Compare trying to change betting target from England vs Germany football game to Chad vs Mali one. Originally by: Professor Bunsen indexes rise (or fall) on the week approximately 50% of the time How well you've researched it? Especially since the important question is more of form 'If the index rose in week N by X, how likely its to behave similarly on week N+1?'. The answer is available from the public data, and should be very essential to your profitability estimates. Care to share it with us? (Assuming you get 'OK' ruling from GMs for the venture). -Lasse who doesn't really believe standard or niche lotteries has such wide customer base
Princess Trinity Native Freshfood	Posted - 2007.08.18 03:08:00 - [29] I believe you said in a older thread that Free Shares would be given to Founder Investors. May I ask if this is still going to happen, and if so how many would be given. Also I am pretty sure I was one of your first Investors. My alts were Schneirder and Fitz Farseer, they may of bought shares to, i cant remember.

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