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Rahzelk
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Posted - 2004.02.04 16:08:00 -
[1]
If you are for instance a Minmatar, you should be better with a Minmatar's ship than anyone not Minmatar. And Same rule should apply to all races.
How doing that ? Here's some idea that can be applied easily :
-Apply ship's bonus ONLY if you are the same race than the ship.
-Give additional bonus for same race/ship pilot
-Learn other race ship SLOWER than your own race ! (add the equivalent of 1 rank level)
I'm not saying the three should be applied, but at least one of these ideas, or any other idea towards the same goal, would be definately awesome.
Plus it was announced like that in the official FAQ of the game.
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
NTRabbit
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Posted - 2004.02.04 16:21:00 -
[2]
If you look at the elite frigate stats, they have a bonus ie '25% damage bonus to hybrid weapons' which only applies to the race the ship belongs to - logic suggests this will also be applied to elite cruisers and so on and so forth. At least thats the way i have read it, since the bonus is in a single hit of 25% rather than in 5% increments based on a skill level.
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WE R 4TW! |
Archemedes
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Posted - 2004.02.04 16:30:00 -
[3]
Why? You do realize this makes NO sense from a roleplay / 'in-game' perspective, right? It's not like flying a ship is something you've grown up seeing people do and therefore have an easier time learning... ship piloting is something that ONLY pilots are going to have been exposed to: everyone starts off totally clueless when they first go to that space acadamy / university. Do you really think one totally unfamilliar set of controls would be easier to learn than another one just because your own race built it? Maybe if the EVE races were different species that would be true, but they're all human. Just because Minmatar put the throttle on the left and Caldari put it on the right (for example) isn't going to make one ship harder to learn...  If anything, learning ONE race's ships should make learning other races' ships EASIER, since you only have to learn what's different rather than starting over.
Besides, the whole POINT of EVE's skill system is to let you learn to use whatever you want to spend time on. Limiting ship selection would be counter to that whole idea.
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Raeff
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Posted - 2004.02.04 16:31:00 -
[4]
so i guess someone like me with 4mil skill pts, and is caldari, that has come to like flying gallente and minmitar more than caldari is basically F'd .. ya thats nice .. thnx 
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.02.04 16:33:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
If you look at the elite frigate stats, they have a bonus ie '25% damage bonus to hybrid weapons' which only applies to the race the ship belongs to - logic suggests this will also be applied to elite cruisers and so on and so forth. At least thats the way i have read it, since the bonus is in a single hit of 25% rather than in 5% increments based on a skill level.
It's probably because the frigates always require the skill to be at level 5, hence there's no point with having a 5%/level bonus. The result will always be 25%.
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2004.02.04 16:41:00 -
[6]
Quote:
If you look at the elite frigate stats, they have a bonus ie '25% damage bonus to hybrid weapons' which only applies to the race the ship belongs to - logic suggests this will also be applied to elite cruisers and so on and so forth. At least thats the way i have read it, since the bonus is in a single hit of 25% rather than in 5% increments based on a skill level.
Actually, since the Interceptors all require their race's Frigate skill at level 5, the devs probably just didn't bother making the bonus based on Frigate level. You HAVE to have Frigate 5 just to fly the ship, so instead of +5% / level it's easier to just add the +25% in one chunk.
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2004.02.04 21:27:00 -
[7]
id go down another road...
dont mess with race bonus to the ships abilities, but rhater make it so training certain skills related to these ships are race dependent, and someone from another race needs to train 25% more skill points for example
so going for your own races ships is rewarded, but if you decided to take on the longer training time you still can fly the ship without any disadvantage to anyone else...
after all, we are all humans, and even though training something foreign may take longer, IF i decided to invest the time, i will master it eventually...
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Manfred Doomhammer
Fleet Admiral
CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Ka'loor
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Posted - 2004.02.04 23:31:00 -
[8]
Let me ask on question. "To what idea of actual real life logic do you relate to?"
Piloting space vessels is not something that is anquored within one race, and that changes with different races. Its not like writing english or chinese, which you learn at childhood. But rather you learn it actively at some university i guess. So there would be no aptitude for flying your races ships to another. Unless of yourse caldari count with base 12 and Minmatar count based on 6 and Gallente on 10 and so on. Then there would be a racial aptidute.
But i do not imagine the races are that different.
Attack without mercy, until blood is gone, until life is gone, until the light is gone, unto the shadow itself.
Better to die with honor, than to live in shame. |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.02.04 23:44:00 -
[9]
I guess Federation captains can use a Klingon ship with as much efficiency and ease as a Klington ... the fact that the hardware is in a totally different language and design is completely unfamiliar doesn't make a difference *shrug*
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Manfred Doomhammer
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Posted - 2004.02.05 00:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Manfred Doomhammer on 05/02/2004 00:04:34
like cao cao said... i think you can overcome these problems, still, it takes more training for you to get familiar with something thats of an alien design than with some design you basically know from your first schooldays on...
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Manfred Doomhammer
Fleet Admiral
CEO ShadowTec Inc.
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Asharee Intrefer
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Posted - 2004.02.05 03:23:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Asharee Intrefer on 05/02/2004 03:25:18
From the short story "The Jovian Wetgrave": "The controller, captain if you like, of the ship is stationed inside the capsule. Through it, he's neural rigged to all parts of the ship. The capsule is like one gigantic computer, with the captain at the core, controlling everything." Any answered.
I guess that with that in mind, there's some logic in having a bonus for one race, as the neural data from other races would have to converted (the way our brains process things is to some extent shaped by our background, our conscious thoughts are in different languages and so on), which could give a loss for those not controlling the ship with "native" neural patterns.
Or something like that. 
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2004.02.05 03:25:00 -
[12]
I don't believe that racial bonus applied on the ships is the way to go.
Instead, a racial learning bonus should be applied learning a racial ship skill. Amarr for example, should 25% faster in learning Amarr ships skills and -25% slower in learning Minmatar ship skills for example. This should apply to other radars as well.
Amarr
25% faster in learning Amarr frigate, cruiser, industrial, battleship skills
neutral on all Caldari ship skills
neutral on all Gallente ship skills
25% slower on Minmatar ship skills
Minmatar
25% faster on learning all MInmatar ship skills
neutral on Caldari ships skills
neutral on Gallente ship skills
25% slower on all Amarr ship skills
Gallente
25% faster on learning all Gallente ship skills
neutral on Amarr ship skills
neutral on Minmatar ship skills
25% slower on Caldari ship skills
Caldari
25% faster learning on all Caldari ship skills
neutral on Amarr ship skills
neutral on MInmatar ship skills
25% slower on all Gallente ship skills
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.05 04:21:00 -
[13]
Pandora's Box is already open on this issue.
Would have been nice, oh well.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Rahzelk
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Posted - 2004.02.05 09:22:00 -
[14]
Quote:
so i guess someone like me with 4mil skill pts, and is caldari, that has come to like flying gallente and minmitar more than caldari is basically F'd .. ya thats nice .. thnx
Please read posts before replying... I never said people shouldn't be able to pilot any ships. But I just think it should be correct to have a kind of bonus being the same race as the ship.. The suggested idea about 25%less/more learning time is something that I like pretty much... |
Number One
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Posted - 2004.02.05 09:46:00 -
[15]
I would rather see a racial bonus applied to what ever ship you are flying. for example a minmitar from the brutor tribe might get an instant 10% bonus to turret rate of fire, for what ever ship he is in. the other tribe (can't remember the name right now) might get a 10% bonus to max velocity to any ship he is flying. this would add a lot of nice combinations. such as a minmitar pilot flying an apoc that is 10% faster, or a caldari pilot flying a megathron with a shield bonus. these bonus would also greatly enhance there specific races ships as well.
but to say i would drive a volkwagen better because i'm german or a ford better because i am from the USA is silly. On the other hand to say a german on average is better at soccer then somebody from the USA would be a safe bet, cause there society is more involved with it as a whole.
with that in mind it would be easy to say certain amarrians can squeeze more powergrid, or capcitor recharge out of any ship, a caldari is pretty good with onboard cpu or shields, etc etc
just my 2 cents
There is no good or evil in the universe only POWER!
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Rahzelk
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Posted - 2004.02.05 10:48:00 -
[16]
NumberOne, you've got a point :D
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
Arleonenis
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Posted - 2004.02.05 12:35:00 -
[17]
Thats the point Number
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Agan Rafa
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Posted - 2004.02.05 13:29:00 -
[18]
One solution would be to just allow only one lvl5 skill per character in a certain group. Kind of like a specialisation if you will - although for hindsight purposes its probably better to just allow each person to designate a specialist skill (ie lvl6) rather than nerf it. This way you get racial specialisation but no character limitation.
Carebear extraordinaire |
Naal Morno
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Posted - 2004.02.05 15:25:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Naal Morno on 05/02/2004 15:29:02
Edited by: Naal Morno on 05/02/2004 15:28:38
Quote:
I would rather see a racial bonus applied to what ever ship you are flying. for example a minmitar from the brutor tribe might get an instant 10% bonus to turret rate of fire, for what ever ship he is in. the other tribe (can't remember the name right now) might get a 10% bonus to max velocity to any ship he is flying. this would add a lot of nice combinations. such as a minmitar pilot flying an apoc that is 10% faster, or a caldari pilot flying a megathron with a shield bonus. these bonus would also greatly enhance there specific races ships as well.
but to say i would drive a volkwagen better because i'm german or a ford better because i am from the USA is silly. On the other hand to say a german on average is better at soccer then somebody from the USA would be a safe bet, cause there society is more involved with it as a whole.
with that in mind it would be easy to say certain amarrians can squeeze more powergrid, or capcitor recharge out of any ship, a caldari is pretty good with onboard cpu or shields, etc etc
just my 2 cents
I think these race/school attributes were in Beta but got dropped or not implemented in official release...
http://www.eve-db.com/modules.php?name=Encyclopedia&op=content&tid=55
EDIT: (this one cr.ac.ked me up )
Monophobia Bonus:
Dies if he doesn't dock at a station every 60 mins."
Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Chief Sentinel, wrecking for 660.4 damage.
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Raeff
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Posted - 2004.02.05 22:20:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Raeff on 05/02/2004 22:28:18
Rehz, i tried to put it as simple as i could, and yes i read your post .. my point is its hard to add features like that NOW for people that have invested months and months of time into a character only to have it have a bonus to somethin they dont like or a penalty to somethin they love .. that make more sense?
..everyone is different when it comes to games, some have 40+ hours a week they devote, and others have 10 or less but the love the game just as much or more than the 40+ .. when you start making drastic changes, you start losing people .. argue all you want, but its the way it is...
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Rahzelk
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Posted - 2004.02.06 13:01:00 -
[21]
Raef I honestly don't understand what's the problem....
Imagine you are Gallentean. If they introduce something like having less hybrid energy consumption when you are a caldari piloting a caldari ship, is that "soooo" bad for the time you invest in skills/money towards caldari ?
In my opinion, not at all.. afterall, you would still be able to fly in any ships.
Are you choosing a ship for the 5% bonus in *insertattribute* ..? I am sure not. It is exactly how it is named : a bonus. But you firstly choose the ship for is CPU/PG/CAP/SHLD/ARM/HI/MED/LOW etc.... and absolutely not for the bonus as a main interest.
So where is the problem of having some bonuses race'specific... ?
(elegance-corp.net)
Do not look where you fell, but where you slipped. |
fras
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Posted - 2004.02.06 13:07:00 -
[22]
The biggest problem with this idea as I see it is lack of info at the start. If you start out as Caldari(because to a noob they're all the same anyway) and realise you actually prefer Amarr later down the line, your'e stuffed.
Also if this was introduced there's going to be 100's of players out of sorts who have already chosen and trained a different race' ships.
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Rahzelk
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Posted - 2004.02.06 14:27:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Also if this was introduced there's going to be 100's of players out of sorts who have already chosen and trained a different race' ships.
and ? they will still be able to fly the ship the same way they ever did. With the same ship bonuses as before.... really, I can't see any major drawback... |
Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.02.06 14:42:00 -
[24]
The drawback is that skill really is relative compared to other players.
A non-minmatar would suffer a loss in efficient percentage of (given attribute) relative a Minmatar pilot.
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Rahzelk
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Posted - 2004.02.06 14:58:00 -
[25]
but a non minmatar would have something that a minmatarr doesn't have.... everyones will have something different.... bleh, I hardly find any fun to be all *exactly* the same... even if I love the fact that you can do everything nevermind your initial choice.
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:09:00 -
[26]
What I hate with this idea is I would probably get a useless trait as Gallente, say maybe 5% less CPU requirement for Mining Lasers :)
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VoxDei
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:46:00 -
[27]
Quote:
I would rather see a racial bonus applied to what ever ship you are flying. for example a minmitar from the brutor tribe might get an instant 10% bonus to turret rate of fire, for what ever ship he is in. the other tribe (can't remember the name right now) might get a 10% bonus to max velocity to any ship he is flying. this would add a lot of nice combinations. such as a minmitar pilot flying an apoc that is 10% faster, or a caldari pilot flying a megathron with a shield bonus. these bonus would also greatly enhance there specific races ships as well.
I like that idea. If you could do it so that the racial bonuses complemented the ship bonuses for that race (so Caldari might get a power use reduction for Hybrids, or Amarr might get an extra 5% armour or something), then that would be a built in bonus to piloting your own race's ships). If you were doing that, could you not also have one 'economic' bonus as well as a military one per race? So maybe Gallente would get a cycle time reduction on mining lasers, or Caldari would get an increase in cargo capacity.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:58:00 -
[28]
my 2 cents, I choose Intaki, cause they got electronic warfare as a starting skill, great stats alround, lovely char. Build for a true combat support role.
unfortunately, gallente ships suck at EW, their racial weapons are once in a blue moon usefull, and now you suggest I get a mining laser boost. Are you people all completely stoned when reading and posting on these forums or just braindead?
This game with all it's inbalances and nerfs complete reworks and general chaos in balancing is still doing reasonably well cause people got a way too adapt, you wanna be good at EW and are gallente, no problem the devs might have messed up, but that scorpion is just as usefull to you as it is too anyone else, so train too use that. etc. etc.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Rahzelk
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Posted - 2004.02.06 16:26:00 -
[29]
Quote:
and now you suggest I get a mining laser boost. Are you people all completely stoned when reading and posting on these forums or just braindead?
The mining laser thingy was a joke... |
Ukiah
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Posted - 2004.02.07 05:37:00 -
[30]
If a racial bonus was implemented, as some have mentioned, in global manner, ie caldari getting a bonus to hybrid cap usage and this bonus was applied to whatever ship said caldari pilot was flying, you'd have my instant support.
However, if we start seeing bonus's that are only for a caldari flying a caldari ship and only in caldari space and never on days ending in Y, you're gonna alienate a LOT of people.
Here's why: Yes, it's a bonus, but a large portion of gamers carefully plot their character development. To do this would be tantamount to John Q. Evesubscriber creating a Minmatar pilot, training up minmatar ship skills and then deciding he likes to put lasers on his Rupture. Yes, he can do it and there are possibly reasons for doing so. However, he's seriously putting himself at a disadvantage to the amarr pilot who has decided he really likes the Minmatar ships and trains up that shipline and projectile weapons. 9 times outta 10, the guy using the weapons with the correspondingly bonus'd ship is going to win.
I'm seriously worried that I'm gonna regret training up Amarr frigates simply because I wanna fly an Amarrian Interceptor isntead of a Gallente one.
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