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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 10:37:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 10:39:41
Are railguns not better then blasters for missions? Dont you need AB with blasters or do you just let ships come to you?
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"EM Hardener II
-Heat Resistance Amp II
-Kin Resistance Amp II"
Dont most rats only do two damage types? If you want muti damage why not use 3 invul fields?
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 11:01:00 -
[2]
ôIt's true that myrm can get a monster passive tank, but can work just as bait or missions tanker.ö
ThatÆs rubbish it can tank and fit EW. I warp scram someone just last week in it.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 11:10:00 -
[3]
ôBut the facts that the drake will choose its damage types and void travel time remainsö
The myrm can also choose it damage type with no travel time for weapons. ThatÆs not advantage for the Drake.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 12:38:00 -
[4]
ôOdds are low that op has ever flown a myrmiddon(for mission anyway), afraid same goes for Pottsey, no offense, just a suspicion.ö
Do you know who I am? The only thing more odd then thinking I have never flown a passive tanked myrmidon is thinking I have never flown a passive tank Domi.
Only last week there was a thread where I offered to dual people on the test server with my passive tank myrmidon. People took me up on that offer and I still offer it.
ôThe drake never has to wait between switching targets - the myrm and its drones does.ö
The Drake has to wait longer. Press engage seconds later you hit and damage the new target with turrets and/or drones on the myrm. The Drake on the other hand has to wait for missiles to travel.
ôThe drake will put out its dps constantly, the myrm will when the drones are finally on a target - not when they're travelling.ö
Not all drones need to travel to hit there target.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 16:29:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 16:31:53
ôit's something completly different. As you have to coordinate with your mates. I presumed this was for solomissions, where it is much easier to estimate when a foe is going to die, and thus never waste missile.ö
If I am killing 4 ships before the missiles hit and moving onto my 5th target with turrets and drones in group missions then logically the same would happen solo.
With turrets you kill faster and move onto your next target. By the time the missiles hit and start heading towards there next target your already on the targets after that with turrets and sentry drones. With missiles youÆre also going make a mistakes at some point and shoot to many or not enough missiles wasting time as you swap back to your target or wasting ammo.
I also find turrets do more DPS. At least at range. Missiles win at short range. (railguns)
When solo blasters can work. You aggro everything and let it come to you. Then bring your drones out. I stoped that once waves where added to missions though.
ôAnd as for the myrm fitting an AB would pretty much void the entire idea of a passive tank,ö
Why? Just fit 1 or 2 PDS and cap will not be a problem.
ôPottsey may do it on a Domi/Myrm (?), but I'd have a hard time accepting the wasted rig slot.ö
Just to be clear, I have done it and fitted the rigs but itÆs untested. The Domi hasnÆt seen combat yet with the rigs fitted so it might not work. Not using my Myrm right now decided to swap to a sentry drone rigged Domi.
EDIT: Testing Sent rig setup now Domi though.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.08.17 16:44:00 -
[6]
"I would like to point out that, missles also take time to hit the target just like drones take time to get there, altho our missles are a tad faster"
Only some drones. sentry drones dont take time.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 17:22:00 -
[7]
ômyrmi is a droneboat anyways and with a passive tank you can't afford to fire bigger guns continuously anyways.ö
ThatÆs not true just fit more PDS and you can fire everything. I have 425mm railguns on my Hyper and 6 turrets on my Domi no cap problems. Same for myrm I used to use turrets no problem.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 20:11:00 -
[8]
Its for PvE and MWD is mostly useless for PvE
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.08.17 21:25:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Pottsey on 17/08/2007 21:32:13
ôerm pottsey flies passive shield tanked gallente ships, but that doesn't make him/her the authority in this.ö
Its not that I fly passive tanks that makes me the authority itÆs my past history on the subject that makes me the authority. I donÆt have the title Queen of passive tanking for nothing.
That doesnÆt mean you have to like or use my setups but it does mean I know my stuff on the subject. I never go around saying my setups are the best. Only that they work. If people donÆt like my setups thatÆs fine but donÆt tell me they are crap or donÆt work. I freely admit some of my setups are not the best possible setup. There is no such thing as a best possible setup anyway. Whats best is all down to your play style.
ôfit a smartbomb, this will hit targets when the tracking of your rails becomes inadequate.ö
Smartbombs donÆt work anymore rats now orbit further out most of the time outside smartbomb range. I had to unfit mine ages back as it rarey got used. Unless somethings changed again, its been a long time since I used smartbombs. Been thinking about digging out my smartbomb only ship know T2 bombs are cheap.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.08.18 08:16:00 -
[10]
ôOK Pottsey, you may be an authority on tanks, and that's all well and good. But apparently you have no idea about blasters or drones if you're saying that Ogres travel faster than missiles and aren't susceptible to being popped if not in scoop range. And that you can hit real PvPers with blasters and no MWD.ö
Only an authority on passive shield tanks not all tanks. I never once said ogres travel faster then missiles. I said some drones donÆt need to travel like missiles and hit the target right away. I never said you cannot use MWD with blasters for PvP. I said this is a PvE setup thread so MWD is useless as it doesnÆt work for PvE most of the time. I also said railguns work better then blasters for PvE. Due to waves warping in blasters will often be out of range while railguns can shoot.
ôI'd say the Drake is much better at tanking and damage than the Myrm at ranges of 25-70km.ö
The math says the Myrm has the stronger tank with more HP regen most of the time.
ôIf you really want to fully passive tank a Myrm and do damage with no propulsion mod fit projectilesö
I use hybrids T2 no problem. But it doesnÆt matter what you fit as the ship has no turret bonus. You can fit propulsion the only reason I dont is I dont see a need for it.
ôIt has no web, it has no MWD, it has no EW, it has no capacitor. It can be took down by anything that can reach above 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range.ö
Do you have T4 NPCÆs where you do missions?
ôthen compare the damage (and keep in mind someone will need to be dual webbing and target painting for you as sentry tracking SUCKS aö
0.03 is not that bad itÆs almost as good as a large blaster more then enough for PvE. If you need more fit more tracking modules. A Large blaster is only 0.04
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.08.18 09:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Pottsey on 18/08/2007 09:19:50
You misunderstood what I was saying about a MWD and blasters. I was saying that blasters don't work in missions BECAUSE you can't use a MWD, which you have now acknowledged.
Well if you look at it from my point of view. I said blasters donÆt work as well as railguns in post 4 and MWD doesnÆt work post 59. Then you came along and told me
ôBut apparently you have no idea about blasters or dronesö
I havenÆt just acknowledged this now I have been saying it since the start.
ôI was responding to your refusal to acknowledge that the Myrmi is much more limited by range and travel time. Sentry drones can't really hit anything smaller than a BS also, so the decreased travel time doesn't really turn into more actual DPS there.ö
First off Sentries hit small targets fine as long as itÆs not point blank. I kill frigs and cruisers with them same for raliguns. If its long range I hit the target when its close my freind with missiles takes over. Turrets hit frigs for full damage at range unlike missiles.
The trick is to drop the sentry 10+km behind you and aggro the rats. The rats come towards you putting your sentry drones at the perfect distance and railguns can kick to life as well as the rats fly in a straight line at you. Target frigs first then move to cruisers and lastly battleships. Once that rats get to you they are still far enough away for the sentry drones to hit.
I find when new waves warp in they aggro the closest target so the drones should be ok as your closer to the new wave as long as you placed the drones correctly. It does mean learning the missions though.
I donÆt recall saying the Myrmi has better range only that its weapons are not always limited by travel time which is true. The myrim can shoot with drones and turrets and kill a target before missiles hit. If thatÆs case how can we say the Myrin weapons have worse travel time? In my mind thatÆs better travel time for weapons.
Part of this problem with this thread is some people are talking about lvl 3 missions and others lvl 4. Some solo, some groups. In lvl 3 I would say the Myrmi is tons faster. In lvl 4 the two ships close up in speed.
Personal I think the best option is to have a 2 pair gang one with turrets and one with missiles both with drones and mindlink so both get a large tanking bonusÆs. This way you do missions more then twice as fast as solo so you make more isk.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.08.18 15:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Pottsey on 18/08/2007 15:57:08
ôThats the whole point, you get caught, you wont ever get out unless your near your home systems with reinforcements. Thus setup is not viable for any ranged flights.ö
That never happens. Once the NPC catchÆs you it keeps its aggro on you leaving your drones to kill it. As it cannot break your tank itÆs only a matter of time before you win. NPCÆs donÆt fly at 1km/sec, and stay outside of 10km range. So itÆs a not a problem.
Your conclusion of ôThus setup is not viable for any ranged flights.ö is wrong as your looking at a setup for PvE and saying it fails in situations that never happen in PvE. As those situations do not happen it doesnt matter.
Passive shield tanking guide click here |
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