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What if CONCORD was actually there to serve and protect, not punish ?

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Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:34:00 - [1] By that I mean, instead of having the police automagically materializing soon after a "hostile act" took place (depending on sec status), what if you could instead (or rather said, YOU HAD TO, each and every time) actually call for CONCORD to "come to the scene" ? Everybody could call CONCORD whenever they "witness" a hostile act in highsec, and CONCORD (maybe even faction/customs) ships at the scene already would automatically call for extra reinforcements if they witness it themselves and can't handle it... but if nobody calls for them, they shouldn't show up at all. Not only that, but after the "issue" was sorted out, most CONCORD vessels should leave as soon as possible. No reports, no secstatus loss, no CONCORD *P.S. That should solve the problem of secure cans anchored everywhere they shouldn't, and abandoned ships littering the galaxy too.* _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:36:00 - [2] This would make life a living hell for macroers. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:37:00 - [3] When it rains, it pours... ah, the good side-effects of a strange idea _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:38:00 - [4] I like it:) it would have to be lag free somehow. Also I sometimes wonder why they don't make concord scalable. meaning you can pay monthly fees for your corp and get more protection? or better protection for ships. like they will rep your ships if you pay 1 bil a month? ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs? Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar
Nafzaar	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:40:00 - [5] And you can forget about being afk if undocked...
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:42:00 - [6] Edited by: Akita T on 19/08/2007 04:45:10 Originally by: Nafzaar And you can forget about being afk if undocked... Well, only if no faction/customs/police ships are around, and nobody actually at the keyboard in the grid wants to report the agression at all. Oh, but don't forget AFK/macro mission running, AFK/macro COSMOS complex farming, or AFK gang-boosting (maybe alone, in a SS). Those are probably THE best ones _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Gord Ackfordham Fenscore Enterprises United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Dark Shikari This would make life a living hell for macroers. i definitely see that getting exploited. --- cheers, gordo
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:46:00 - [8] Originally by: Dark Shikari This would make life a living hell for macroers. What is stopping them from spamming the "CONCORD" button at intervals and just keep calling them and having them re-spawn. Or, a freighter pilot, spamming "CONCORD" button every time he approaches a gate, for "Just to Be Sure" factor. Other than those two concerns, interesting.
Nafzaar	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:47:00 - [9] You know, people are selfish. They never gonna call Concord for another guy
Greekil Gallente Cotton Buds Frontline.	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:54:00 - [10] This is actually a really good idea. I was expecting a "OMG SUICIDE GANKRES ARE SO MEAN AND I HAET THEM" thread when I read the title.

Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 04:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Jinx Barker What is stopping them from spamming the "CONCORD" button at intervals and just keep calling them and having them re-spawn. Or, a freighter pilot, spamming "CONCORD" button every time he approaches a gate, for "Just to Be Sure" factor. Other than those two concerns, interesting. First off, the "call CONCORD" button (or option, or whatever) would ONLY be available (or valid) when an agression occured. No agressions, no button. Or better still, calling up CONCORD for no good reason should result in a fine for the one that called it in ? Would be fun too. Second, podding should automatically call CONCORD. That much is certain that "it has to be done". Third, once CONCORD arrives at the scene, all recent acts of agression are "punished" too, not just the act that caused them to show up, to avoid other possible avenues of exploiting this. Now, the tricky part is HOW do you make a "call CONCORD" button that's both easy to use by a human, but pretty hard for a macro. In the case it only shows up when agression occurs, it definetely needs to always look slightly different (no auto image recognition), be in a different place on the screen every time (but still easily accessable). In case it's always available but you're fined when you abuse it (call CONCORD for no reason), it needs to have a non-cancellable confirmation screen reminding you of that. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.19 05:09:00 - [12] you know, it could just be a button on the keyboard. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs? Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.08.19 05:09:00 - [13] or... somethign that shows up when you right click on someone, you could call concord on them. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP Quote: Why didn't we use them 80 man-years to fix bugs? Well, that's simple. We can't. These are visual ar
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 05:14:00 - [14] Originally by: MotherMoon you know, it could just be a button on the keyboard. or... somethign that shows up when you right click on someone, you could call concord on them. Or heck, something even funnier. It should always be there, easy to notice, it should always look the same, and it should always have a non-cancellable info/confirmation box "informing" you of the side-effects if you proceed. The more you use it when there was NO agression at all in your "visual range", the less responsive CONCORD gets to you (decays in time to normal response levels, say in one day). If there was any agression at all (even "valid agression" between wartargets), you don't get a penality to "CONCORD response". Even more, if it WAS a valid agression, and you're the one that called CONCORD first... you get a portion of the insurance payouts of ships CONCORD destroys instead of the "CONCORDOKKENED" ones getting it, and a security status increase proportional to the ship values "concorded". You can extend the system to also include contraband detection _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.19 05:15:00 - [15] Also what if comitting "crimes" in EvE really had an effect. What if every time you jumped through a gate or docked in a station there was a chance that you were recognized and sized if you had done stuff like stealing, murder piracy... (ie neg sec status) There could be a trial and the char could be put in a walk in station jail for a coupple of weeks. Another idea is what if empire was actually different from 0.0 other than having more stations and concord in 0.5 and above? What if concord like now protected 0.5 and above and the factions protected 0.1-0.4, the difference would be that factions would assist based on standing with the player being attacked. Accept facts, concord works like it does so that people wont just gank the **** out of highsec. Back in 2003 concord were not powerhouses of precognition and death, concord was weak, concord had a delay and there were no sentry guns. The thing this lead to was out of control ganking by a small number of players, this got so bad that CCP found themselves having to upp concords power, it was not a single boost, there were many many boosts over many months as well as the introduction of sentry guns and more. Now you are asking what would happen if we went back to a system where you have to activelly call concord... Well the answer is simple: Concord downgraded -> ganking galore -> complainins, whines, bad press, general unhappiness -> subs closed -> CCP looses money -> concord boosted, probably above the current level. In short, your idea would give CCP alot of grief and we would end upp with a more powerfull concord.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 05:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Fester Addams Accept facts, concord works like it does so that people wont just gank the **** out of highsec. Now you are asking what would happen if we went back to a system where you have to activelly call concord... Concord downgraded -> ganking galore If you're attacked in highsec and you're there at the keyboard, what's stopping you from calling CONCORD yourself ? If you witness a ganking in highsec, and you get a bonus for reporting it, what's stopping you from doing it ? In short, WHY would a system that requires users to actually call for the police translate into "higher gank rates" ? _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.19 06:56:00 - [17] No because flying AFK through Empire would be a big grief knowing what people are like in eVe. Concord is in Empire for a reason and it is to prevent exploitative grief play. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.19 06:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Akita T If you're attacked in highsec and you're there at the keyboard, what's stopping you from calling CONCORD yourself ? If you witness a ganking in highsec, and you get a bonus for reporting it, what's stopping you from doing it ? Thus what you are saying is that I should have to have to pay 100% attention to everything all the time in EvE or suffer the cosequenses? The main reason for concords automatic and swift response is that killing a ship is fast, most of the time a gank is over before the attacking ship has time to fire a second volly. If I had to activelly push a button to get a concord response the attacker would be able to kill me, and warp off and possibly even dock before I even realized the attack was happening. Most of the people playing EvE actually do other things at the same time, especially as they mine, haul, idle, NPC rat... More people have sound and effects switched off. What all of this boils down to is that it will be hard to implement the button in a viable way, I meen how long after the attack starts do I have to call concord? Untill my ship has gone poof!? Untill the attacker has left? 1 min? 5 min? 30 min? What if the attacker has managed to dock before I hit the button? Will he be concorded when undocking nomatter how long he remains in there? Will he be able to switch ships? There are simply too many variables that come into it. In a perfect world playing a perfect game you would have to call concord but we have nither. concord is there to make highsec safer for people who do not at this moment want to PvP and your idea while tantelizing will simply not work as you envision it. Quote: In short, WHY would a system that requires users to actually call for the police translate into "higher gank rates" ? High sec ganking is now done despite the sec rating loss and definite ship loss. So what makes people do it? Its a simple equation of (gain) - (loss) = (worth it?), any alterations in this formula will affect ganking. If loss is increased, say for example insurance payout is removed for concord kills, the ammount of ganking will go down as you have to find juicier targets to make it worth it. If on the other hand gain is increased, say for example there is a chance that concord wont kill you due to afk, CTD, spamming... then ganking will increase as the chance for it to be worth it will increase. In short some people will do the numbers and realize that every once in a while you will get a freebie to balance out the numbers and as we all know everyone likes a freebie. I would also like to hear you opinion on having crimes have a real consequence apart from a sec hit and loss of a suicide ship.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.19 07:03:00 - [19] Think of high-sec space as Sudan, and low-sec space as Darfur. --- Grismar.net
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.19 07:15:00 - [20] Originally by: cal nereus Think of high-sec space as Sudan, and low-sec space as Darfur. I think I would have a real tough time flying my ships throgh ither Sudan or Darfur, Id just get stuck in the soil. Anyhow, if High Sec is Sudan... and Low sec is Darfur... what would 0.0 be?

Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.19 07:18:00 - [21] Hell. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Kimiko Kurosawa The Krugerrand Groupies	Posted - 2007.08.19 07:22:00 - [22] Edited by: Kimiko Kurosawa on 19/08/2007 07:23:05 0.0 is the tractor factory in Stalingrad. OP: I love this idea, but the potential for misuse is so vast that I don't think we'll ever see it.
Veryez	Posted - 2007.08.19 07:58:00 - [23] Sounds like this could be fun, but would have to work out some kinks. Oh and the CONCORD button should look like a donut.
Cutie Chaser Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.19 08:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Akita T By that I mean, instead of having the police automagically materializing soon after a "hostile act" took place ... what if you ... HAD TO... actually call for CONCORD to "come to the scene" ? So like you are sitting at britian west bank and you see someone criminally flag and you have to shout "GUARDS"? No thanks, if I wanted a trip back to 1997 I'd just go play UO. On a related note this would likely forcing an entire re-write of the relevant code which is likely old and probably hasn't been touched in ages for fear of breaking a working system :P Also, the "problems" it solves could likely be cleaned up in 2 seconds with a script on the server to look for these things floating around. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.19 08:47:00 - [25] So no more autopilot flying in empire? I dont think this idea will work. It sounds cool to begin with, but... I dont want to have to guard my ship all the time while playing. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Lady Caeser Open Fist of Castallus	Posted - 2007.08.19 08:57:00 - [26] concorde are dumb****s that will kill you for a technicality. they are the best pvpers in eve, and have the best ships cost they are basically state-sponsored bullies that keep you inline through fear. i like that :) -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? --------------------------------------
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 09:01:00 - [27] Originally by: Fester Addams Thus what you are saying is that I should have to have to pay 100% attention to everything all the time in EvE or suffer the cosequenses? Pretty much, yeah, if you're undocked, you should pay attention or be prepared to suffer some consequences of not doing so. Quote: The main reason for concords automatic and swift response is that killing a ship is fast, most of the time a gank is over before the attacking ship has time to fire a second volly. Automatic ? Sure. Swift ? Maybe in 1.0 or even 0.9, but in 0.5 you have "waiting times" of up to half a minute or more. Quote: If I had to activelly push a button to get a concord response the attacker would be able to kill me, and warp off and possibly even dock before I even realized the attack was happening. No offense, but what are you, a dinosaur on relaxant medication ? You should be able to "call for CONCORD" with the push of a button and a fast confirmation earlier as CONCORD would show up normally right now. That is, if you ARE at the controls of the ship and not fetching dinner. Quote: Most of the people playing EvE actually do other things at the same time, especially as they mine, haul, idle, NPC rat... More people have sound and effects switched off. So, you're telling me people don't get popped anyway, even if CONCORD does actually show up ? Most of the time, suiciders finish the job before CONCORD shows up anyway. Quote: What all of this boils down to is that it will be hard to implement the button in a viable way, I meen how long after the attack starts do I have to call concord? Untill my ship has gone poof!? Untill the attacker has left? 1 min? 5 min? 30 min? Why, the answer is obvious. Same as the agression timer. So, up to 15 minutes since last shot. Oh, and only if you're still in the same grid where it happened. Quote: What if the attacker has managed to dock before I hit the button? Will he be concorded when undocking nomatter how long he remains in there? Will he be able to switch ships? How about if he simply gets the ship he used confiscated by CONCORD in the station, if he didn't manage to give it to somebody else before he gets reported ? Quote: There are simply too many variables that come into it. Not really. Quote: concord is there to make highsec safer for people who do not at this moment want to PvP and your idea while tantelizing will simply not work as you envision it. You still haven't explained why, in a manner clear enough to be absolutely, undeniably, logically correct. Quote: High sec ganking is now done despite the sec rating loss and definite ship loss. [...] If on the other hand gain is increased, say for example there is a chance that concord wont kill you due to afk, CTD, spamming...then ganking will increase as the chance for it to be worth it will increase. Yes, but you don't KNOW if you can get away with it. Actually, in most cases, you can be pretty sure you WON'T get away with it, as long as there's at least one witness except your "gank target", and more importantly, there are no faction/customs/police ships around. You did notice that little part, did you ? Quote: I would also like to hear you opinion on having crimes have a real consequence apart from a sec hit and loss of a suicide ship. You can't forbid people to play the game (that's what "kept in prison" is) just because they roleplay a criminal. Gameplay wise, it would be the same as having, for instance, missions tell you "go to location X at time Y (30-90-240 minutes from now) and do this and that". You just don't do that. The consequences of a very low secrating are bad enough already, but those of a slightly negative ones not nearly high enough. What I'd like to see however is a much "smoother" penality curve compared to now, but also SOME benefits for positive standings too. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.19 09:08:00 - [28] Originally by: Cutie Chaser So like you are sitting at britian west bank and you see someone criminally flag and you have to shout "GUARDS"? No thanks, if I wanted a trip back to 1997 I'd just go play UO. Not everything that's "old" is "absolete", not everything "new" is "good". Originally by: Jim McGregor So no more autopilot flying in empire? I dont think this idea will work. It sounds cool to begin with, but... I dont want to have to guard my ship all the time while playing. Actually, autopilot in empire should be almost compleyely safe. Most gates do have either faction or customs ships around, most of the time anyway. And those gates that DON'T have them are just inviting "helpful" people to hang around cloaked, hoping somebody will be foolish enough to attack a target. You know, with all the "call the cops, get a reward" thing going on (post #14). The only people in any real danger are those in asteroid belts or in deep space. And those people shouldn't be there, alone AND AFK at the same time. If they are... well, good riddance. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Cutie Chaser Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.19 09:10:00 - [29] Akita, your suggestion has one big flaw, it doesn't really bring anything new to the game. It adds another layer of complexity between the player and safety without yielding a tangible benefit. Yeah it lets people gank AFK players in empire, but that could be accomplished easier many, many other much less complex changes. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.08.19 09:10:00 - [30] Edited by: Qui Shon on 19/08/2007 09:13:30 EDIT: Hmm, you addressed some of my concernes already.



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