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Eve Tribune #34

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Mr M	Posted - 2007.08.21 10:44:00 - [1] Worst issue evah! And they where late. Html and spelling errors. No one knows anything! And now over to the latest issue of the Eve Tribune * We look at the rorqual * Wars on the forum * and why you should occasionally take a vacation from gaming EVEgeek \| EVE Tribune
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.21 10:46:00 - [2] Nice.
Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.21 10:58:00 - [3] I want those ten minutes of my life back.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 12:09:00 - [4] RISE isn't the only alliance to get sovereignty 4, just the only one that thinks it is worth talking about. The new influence map is awesome. Many thanks to Verite! FREGE wins eve. <3 Finn. Forum posts are meaningless. Except this one. Because I'm just awesome like that. Several other posts are also meaningful like mine if I deem them so at the time, but this may change at a later date. --- Grismar.net
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.21 12:22:00 - [5] Originally by: Eve Tribune Second, Eve, while a great game, should not be your lifeÆs work. QFT. And again. And again. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Zemeckis R	Posted - 2007.08.21 12:38:00 - [6] "sometime take a vacation from eve, go out and relax, then come back to eve" i agree with that, but if you think... this is a game, you should do it to take a break from the real life and have fun, relax but then... we need a break from the game ( a break from.. 'the brake' ) quite sad, maybe it's just 'couse this is a very intesive game, even though i think this affect more the "1 character only" players... yeah, that's the real hardcore!
FinnAgain Zero Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:23:00 - [7] Originally by: cal nereus FREGE wins eve. <3 Finn. Link doesn't seem to be working.
Onchas Erivvia Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:26:00 - [8] Given all the questions you guys have been getting regarding journalistic integrity, why not take the time to interview a couple of people to give counter-viewpoints. Not doing so makes your little news outlet look like little more than a propaganda mouthpiece. ------------------------------------------ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"' Teh Onchinator' Personal Assistant to MrsPitman "We got schooled last night but meh" - Suas
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:29:00 - [9] thankyou all at the Eve Tribune. I like the new fiction section you opened up as well, give Frege something to read ;)
FinnAgain Zero Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:45:00 - [10] Originally by: Omega Man I like the new fiction section you opened up as well, give Frege something to read ;) Can you name a single factual inaccuracy? Just one? Didn't think so. Do you require a definition for the word "fiction?" Originally by: Onchas Erivvia Given all the questions you guys have been getting regarding journalistic integrity Oh noez!!! Originally by: Onchas Erivvia why not take the time to interview a couple of people to give counter-viewpoints. 1. Interviews take time, we publish on a deadline. 2. Many folks simply ignore requests for interviews. We're not about to wait several weeks to publish an article just because some player doesn't deign to consent to an interview for a month. 3. As we've stated many, many times, if you feel that we've missed any information you are more than welcome to contact us via email, our formus, or to submit an article yourself. 4. As most of our articles rely pretty heavily on the facts, the only other variable in interpretation. If you aren't alleging that we got our facts wrong (and it doesn't seem that you are), then all you're asking for is another viewpoint on possible implications. So, see number 3, above. 4b. If you're talking about my article, I specifically listed the counter arguments that I've seen made. I saw, and still see, no reason to track down BoB members to get quotes saying "This doesn't matter." when I can simply state that BoB members have claimed it doesn't matter. Originally by: Onchas Erivvia Not doing so makes your little news outlet look like little more than a propaganda mouthpiece. Ah well.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:50:00 - [11] Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Originally by: Omega Man I like the new fiction section you opened up as well, give Frege something to read ;) Can you name a single factual inaccuracy? Just one? Didn't think so. Do you require a definition for the word "fiction?" Yes please. Clearly you missed the emote at the end of what I wrote. But make me laugh to see you bite again. Whats the definition of fiction?
FinnAgain Zero Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:52:00 - [12] Ah, so you're just trolling. Carry on.
Awyn Lothr Andromeda BR United Corporations of Eve	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:54:00 - [13] Not biased at all this Eve Tribune. Love the way the FREGE "journalist" can write time and again about is how alliance and how well its doing ... that alone ruins the "journal".
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:55:00 - [14] Edited by: Omega Man on 21/08/2007 13:55:25 Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Ah, so you're just trolling. Carry on. Nope, i was twisting Frege tail a bit, but your over-reaction to a misunderstanding was amusing, had to go for the gusto. I liked the article actually, well written.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.21 13:56:00 - [15] Originally by: Awyn Lothr Not biased at all this Eve Tribune. Love the way the FREGE "journalist" can write time and again about is how alliance and how well its doing ... that alone ruins the "journal". Write your own, its a free world.
Tarminic Black Flame Industries	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:05:00 - [16] You guys should really proof-read your articles more thoroughly...but aside from that, a decent read. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 26 Million SP in Forum Warfare.
FinnAgain Zero Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:09:00 - [17] Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 21/08/2007 14:12:43 Originally by: Tarminic You guys should really proof-read your articles more thoroughly...but aside from that, a decent read. We do proofread rather well... on a deadline, late at night. I'll be submitting a list of errors that I caught (even a few in my own stuff) to Mr.M and we'll get changes made sooner or later. It's all part of editing a 'zine at six in the morning on a Monday morning. Omega: My apologies if it was mischievous trolling instead of malicious trolling. Still, posting to "twist someone's tail" is posting to get a rise out of someone and text is famous for its ambiguity, even with a smiley at the end. And simply for the record, I don't feel that after a claim of fictional writing (even if it turns out to be tongue in cheek) that challenging that claim was an overreaction. Glad you enjoyed reading the piece, though.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:30:00 - [18] Originally by: FinnAgain Zero Omega: My apologies if it was mischievous trolling instead of malicious trolling. Still, posting to "twist someone's tail" is posting to get a rise out of someone and text is famous for its ambiguity, even with a smiley at the end. And simply for the record, I don't feel that after a claim of fictional writing (even if it turns out to be tongue in cheek) that challenging that claim was an overreaction. Glad you enjoyed reading the piece, though. No harm intended or taken. Keep up the good writing, Tribune is an excellent read every week, saves me wading through the rubbish written on these forums.
Goonie Alt	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:41:00 - [19] FREGE's posting diminishes it's shobon factor rapidly. Stop posting forever.
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:07:00 - [20] Originally by: Goonie Alt FREGE's posting diminishes it's shobon factor rapidly. Stop posting forever. /Smartass reply **** YOU /end smartass reply. --- We are Recuiting! If you have what it takes, click me! Oh yeah...click me....yeah...
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:12:00 - [21] Oh, it should also be noted that Backdoor Bandit has been unable to write for us this week as he is "away Googling Remedial". --- We are Recuiting! If you have what it takes, click me! Oh yeah...click me....yeah...
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:54:00 - [22] Transformers! Carebears in Disguise! Transformers! Killmails on the Rise... (I can't wait to pop one of those Rorquals) If anyone wants to really present an opposition piece, I'd love to take it. Evemail me or convo me in-game and we can set it up. ~~~ Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:59:00 - [23] While I generally enjoy the content of Eve-tribune, I would also like if they would employ an editor. general mistakes like: Quote: The transformation, it seems, is undergone when the Rorqual activates its ôsiege moduleö style Industrial Core. This sentence is passive To the more simple and downright annoying mistakes such as: Quote: We have only hope that server improves help deal with the larger numbers expected, and as we move into the winter the greater numbers should benefit the Coalition more, as Goonswarm's reliance on huge numbers is well known. This sentence is extremely problematic. It should read something like this: We have only hope that the server improvements [] deal with the larger [player?] numbers expected [expected when?]. [The "and" was correct, but the dependent clause has little or nothing to do with preceding independent clause; therefore, you should create a new sentence.] As we move into the winter[,] the [greater numbers <-- use a better pronoun, such as "the returning players"] should benefit the Coalition more, [logically, this "phrase" does not follow. Would BoB not also benefit from returning players? So what if it is well known that "Goonswarm relies on huge numbers". What the author should have said is something that conveys why returning players will benefit GS more than BoB.] as Goonswarm's reliance on huge numbers is well known. There is a second logical problem with that last sentence. Facts are presented as facts not as "well known" bits of information. So the author should have said ..., because Goonswarm relies on huge numbers. This also fixes the passive issue of that last bit. The entire clause was equating being "well known" and "Goonswarm's reliance on huge numbers", which is not necessarily the case. What quantifies well known? What would a huge number be? Subjects should always be acting out their verbs, not possessing them. Having poor grammar is OK on the forums, I probably have a few in my own writing above, but having poor grammar is not OK in other mediums.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:04:00 - [24] Originally by: Etruscus Having poor grammar is OK on the forums, I probably have a few in my own writing above, but having poor grammar is not OK in other mediums. Yes it is. You may not agree, and thats fine. But these guys do it as a free service to the community, so I say you should show some appreciation for their efforts. --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:05:00 - [25] Thanks for that post to point out several issues. Passive voice is a pretty big problem, as is most of our infamiliarities (or being too lazy to use them) with the journalistic style. Finn! Get to learning! ~~~ Survive Eve! Eve Tribune
Etruscus	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:17:00 - [26] Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes it is. You may not agree, and thats fine. But these guys do it as a free service to the community, so I say you should show some appreciation for their efforts. 1.) I said they should employ an editor, not that the authors should revolutionize their own writing styles. Just like we have writers in Eve, I am sure we also have editors. If some Trib writer wants me to go through their stuff, I would be happy to, assuming I was sent the document early enough. Grammar does matter. The author loses meaning otherwise, and if at least a part of Eve-Tribune's goal is "to inform" the Eve populace then grammar is important. 2.) I began by saying something along the lines of "I generally enjoy the content". Did I not?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Etruscus Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes it is. You may not agree, and thats fine. But these guys do it as a free service to the community, so I say you should show some appreciation for their efforts. 1.) I said they should employ an editor, not that the authors should revolutionize their own writing styles. Just like we have writers in Eve, I am sure we also have editors. If some Trib writer wants me to go through their stuff, I would be happy to, assuming I was sent the document early enough. Grammar does matter. The author loses meaning otherwise, and if at least a part of Eve-Tribune's goal is "to inform" the Eve populace then grammar is important. 2.) I began by saying something along the lines of "I generally enjoy the content". Did I not? Yes. I might have overreacted. I just hate to see voluntary effort getting stomped on, but maybe you didnt mean it that way. And if you're serious about helping them out, im sure they would like it. :) --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:46:00 - [28] Reading the forums today (mainly info portal) has been depressing :( Anyway, that was my mistake (Above), sorry for the errors and I blame our editer for staying up all night and editing. --- We are Recuiting! If you have what it takes, click me! Oh yeah...click me....yeah...
FinnAgain Zero Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.22 03:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Aries Acheron Edited by: Aries Acheron on 21/08/2007 20:06:47 Thanks for that post to point out several issues. Passive voice is a pretty big problem, as is most of our infamiliarities (or being too lazy to use them) with the journalistic style. Finn! Get to learning! :P Yeah... that B.A. with honors in English, the M.Ed with concentrations in linguistics and cognitive linguistics, several years teaching English classes for grades seven through twelve... guess I should really start learning something about the language. Originally by: Aries Acheron But anyway, I know I'm guilty of those issues plenty of times. I'm going to try and watch out for it a bit more on my own. But I can't make any promises if I do slip some. I'll blame Fao for letting too much slip by! I wouldn't bother if I were you. I'm not sure if Faol or I will be editing the next issue, but I can promise you that there's not enough caffeine in the world to make me that wound up. I'll edit any spelling errors that I catch. I'll edit usage errors. I'll even edit for clarity when I see the need. But I've learned far too much about the English language to copy the prigs of the British Empire and confuse the map with the territory. Linguistic prescriptivism would be like Godall coming across a group of gorillas and instead of documenting their behavior, moralizing at them for lazing about all day instead of adhering to the Puritan Work Ethic. Simply for the record, there is absolutely nothing, at all, wrong with the passive voice. It exists for a reason. Most style guides are for those who write with no style. As for most of the corrections our eager pendant would have asked us to make, they range from anal to absurd and back again. A little knowledge is a very dangerous thing, and the last thing I'd want to do, or have Faol do, is clench quite that tightly. Yep there were a few missing words, and yes, I'm sure if it wasn't a late night editing session Faol would've caught 'em. But no big deal, we'll jot 'em down and send 'em off to Mr. M. But despite his act of looking for things to quibble with, our would-be-editor understood exactly what was being said. If you're interested in what one of today's leading linguists has to say on the subject of various grammars (plural), I'd suggest this.
FinnAgain Zero Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.22 04:05:00 - [30] Edited by: FinnAgain Zero on 22/08/2007 04:09:52 Originally by: Jim McGregor And if you're serious about helping them out, im sure they would like it. :) Well, the thing of it is, we get most submissions within a few hours of the deadline (Sunday's downtime). This means that in order to publish on Monday, our editor needs to stay up rather late into the night in order to get the work done. Things tend to slip through the *****s, and since our writers are busy and virtually never get anything in 24 hours ahead of time, having a pre-editor is a luxury that is unlikely to be used. I'm sure that we have some writers who might even enjoy such a service... but the suggested editing style is not only overblown and unnecessary, it'd be hell to actually implement on a tight deadline. I promise that after being up for 36 straight hours and having just gotten through 20 pages of text that you have to scan, phrase by phrase, in order to make sure that every homophone is correct, the grammar is clear and intelligible, etc... catching the use of the dreaded passive voice is not on most editors' minds. Nor should it be since it's not an error, at all, but a subjective stylistic assessment. Much like ending a sentence in a preposition or splitting an infinitive. (Should the Enterprise really have a mission to "go boldly?") If our gallant 'rescuer' really wants to be up past three in the morning on a Sunday (or Saturday) night, and then edit as if he was a grammar maven, then more power to him. But I personally would advise against the Tribune adopting such standards at any point in the future as anything other than a purely optional matter.

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