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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.24 10:31:00 -
[31]
^^^totaly agree. And i dont see any good reason why trying to turn wolf into an AC boat. I ve mentioned it before like many people did. Wolf DOES NOT have enough speed , has 2 HOLES on armor , so few cap after MWD for being able to tackle even a BS. Yea u can kill frigs or ceptors with your ACs but ,..She does it way more better with Arties + optimal. And plus , Wolf is a Boundless Creation ship. Like Muninn. She needs that Optimal bonus.
Jaguar can tackle and shoot anything with its 250s without the Optimal bonus. No one cares the DPS or max range on that ship right now. If u want to kill another AF who knows whats he doing, u HAVE to fit ACs , to be able to have a chance. (or domination webber + 250s on a Jaguar. Which i cant see any versality here, without the best webber in game) Fly it yourself and see.
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Aquemini Amarr
Amarr coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.24 12:26:00 -
[32]
Mentioned this here and would like to give this thread a bump. As a minmatar specced pilot, its the change I most want to see in the game. It really would make a lot of sense!
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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.25 05:57:00 -
[33]
Bump for attention.
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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.09.14 00:27:00 -
[34]
bump! Switch Minnie AFs range bonus'
Falloff for Jag , Optimal for Wolf. Thukker Mix + AC , Boundless Creation + Arty
PS : ALL AF's in game needs mass reduction and 4th bonus.
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Ruciza
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Posted - 2007.09.14 01:15:00 -
[35]
And then what? You're doing the same damage with a falloff bonused Yaguar. You'd have to go into web range to utilize the ACs, that what you want? I tell you what you want - you want to gank, tank, and have speed at the same time. You want to fit the big extenders, you want to have it all, eh?
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.09.14 01:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: MITSUK0 Using AC's on a wolf is daft, it only has 2 mids so how the hell do you keep anything pinned down, it armor tanks but has TWO resist holes so its tank is subpar to all the other AF's.
Both your objections disappear when you accept that the Wolf is not a good tackler. You need a buddy, maybe, oh I don't know, flying a Jaguar.
Once you accept this, the Wolf fitting is easy: 4x 200mm AC, MWD, Med T2 extender, 2x nanos and 2x gyros. Now look at the resists: much better than the armor resists. Look at the damage. Niiiiice. Who'd a thunkit?
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.14 01:53:00 -
[37]
Originally by: haq aan bump! Switch Minnie AFs range bonus'
Falloff for Jag , Optimal for Wolf. Thukker Mix + AC , Boundless Creation + Arty
PS : ALL AF's in game needs mass reduction and 4th bonus.
This.
/signed
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Once you accept this, the Wolf fitting is easy: 4x 200mm AC, MWD, Med T2 extender, 2x nanos and 2x gyros. Now look at the resists: much better than the armor resists. Look at the damage. Niiiiice. Who'd a thunkit?
Well, it's got only three problems: (a) It's useless without the wingman. (b) When we're talking gangs, expect to be fight multiple enemies. How will that fare, then? (c) It will be blasted away very quickly.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.09.14 01:58:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Well, it's got only three problems: (a) It's useless without the wingman.
Lots of ships are.
Quote: (b) When we're talking gangs, expect to be fight multiple enemies. How will that fare, then?
Maybe I could attack the dudes who are tackling my dudes? It's a Wolf. Who is going to call it primary if there's something bigger on the field?
Quote:
(c) It will be blasted away very quickly.
Name an AF that wouldn't be. OK, Ishkur. Point taken.
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.14 02:00:00 -
[39]
Change the jag bonus to +5% speed, delete the wolf from the DB. -
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.14 02:02:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/09/2007 02:03:19 Well, two Jaguars have an advantage of being able to dual web solo people, which is always nice, and field two points (or one can field e-war), which is also very nice.
At any rate, to the poster above: give it a 5% speed bonus as the fourth bonus. I don't care about what happens to the Wolf in that case ;)
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Najenna
Minmatar Caldari Deep Space Ventures
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Posted - 2007.09.14 09:19:00 -
[41]
Bumping for the love of Minmatar. Once you get this Robotech thing in your blood its there to stay... |
Damon Runyon
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.14 15:11:00 -
[42]
Also bumping for minny love.
I used to love my Jag but its sweet passive tank was un*****ble after the shield recharger CPU was upped a few months back. Still one of the better AFs though...
Wolf, however, needs serious work. Used to see lots of them, but fewer and fewer these days, because any vaguely competent t1 cruiser pilot will take one down without a second thought.
Suggestions: please balance the armour resists, at least a little. Consider a third mid (awww, go on) and as suggested by OP switch the boni.
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.09.14 16:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Damon Runyon Also bumping for minny love.
I used to love my Jag but its sweet passive tank was un*****ble after the shield recharger CPU was upped a few months back. Still one of the better AFs though...
Wolf, however, needs serious work. Used to see lots of them, but fewer and fewer these days, because any vaguely competent t1 cruiser pilot will take one down without a second thought.
Suggestions: please balance the armour resists, at least a little. Consider a third mid (awww, go on) and as suggested by OP switch the boni.
Yeah 3rd mid would be great. Would this make it too overpowered compared to the other AF's? - Michael Schumacher won many a formula one race. Alot of the time he didn't win because he had a better car...he won because HE WAS A BETTER DRIVER and because he used SUPERIOR TACTICS. |
haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.09.17 04:37:00 -
[44]
Bump ! Will there be a dev response like ' We will do it.., We will test it, or We dont care Minmatar at all ' ? I would like to see even the worst tbh.
Here is a memo of this thread :
Switch Minnie AFs range bonus' Falloff for Jag , Optimal for Wolf. Thukker Mix + AC , Boundless Creation + Arty
PS : ALL AF's in game needs mass reduction and their 4th bonus.
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2007.09.17 06:06:00 -
[45]
I mentioned this long time ago and no one cared.
now what is the problem with AF using close range weaponry? they are slow and heavy, making it easy to web you and hold at 10km range and thats why you should put the falloff bonus to the jaguar since it is more designed for close range support with web + shield extender. A wolf wont hold anything close range due to lack of mid slots, thats why it is more an arty boat. It wont tank anything too with its 2 resistance holes.
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Foxxy Lady
Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.09.17 09:59:00 -
[46]
/signed I used to fly the arty wolf b4 they nerfed it, loved it with a mixed of faction and passive mods on, you can tank it somewhat. It was fun to fly, now i dont bother with them to much no more since they patched it some time ago. Now i rather fly my sabre instead of either of them. No idea on how to fix them tbh. Foxxy Lady
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.17 10:40:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 17/09/2007 10:41:37
Originally by: Foxxy Lady /signed I used to fly the arty wolf b4 they nerfed it, loved it with a mixed of faction and passive mods on, you can tank it somewhat. It was fun to fly, now i dont bother with them to much no more since they patched it some time ago. Now i rather fly my sabre instead of either of them. No idea on how to fix them tbh. Foxxy Lady
Having to use faction and passive mods to get any sort of a tank on the Wolf is redicilous.
I can live with two resist holes. However, having the same CPU as the Rifter (and one more slot total, plus a low typically consumes more CPU then a mid) is crazy. With 10/15 CPU more, you could at least fit something to fix the resists, although it'd still be a very tight fit ship (which I guess it is supposed to be).
They kindof forgot they've been upping CPU requirements of a lot of modules since the Wolf was designed.
At any rate, AFs as a class are in need of mass-related loving, as well as the fourth bonus.
AFs are at least one area where pilots of all races who like to fly the little buggers agree: they quite definitely need some love, as a class. So bump this like silly, maybe someone actually notices.
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Granmethedon III
High4Life SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.17 10:49:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Granmethedon III on 17/09/2007 10:49:13 bumpity bump and /signed
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haq aan
Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.09.18 23:21:00 -
[49]
Bump this thread again. :( I wish all AF pilots who love to fly that class would bump this thread even for the sake of a notice. Maybe not only for Jag/Wolf problem, but a wider AF love from CCP.
haq
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Fedman Kasad
Minmatar Bulgarian Experienced Crackers
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:07:00 -
[50]
People tend to think that AFs suck and are useless, but honestly i find it untrue. Being a frigate class ship doesn't automatically mean "tackler", and that's key. I find them much more useful for light anti-support(in fleet battles ofcourse), my Jag works perfectly fine killing all other frigate classed ships and even dictors and on top of that can field a point or a web or even both at the expense of tank. And that's what they should be used for imho, since they are slow for tacklers(compared with other frigs/inties) and their DPS is not all that high to bother shooting primaries that are usually BC or higher. So that leaves the sweet job of killing all the ew frigs, destroyers, dictors and depending on the situation even t1 cruisers.
However, i have no experience with destroyers, so perhaps the price:effectiveness ratio of destroyers really is better than that of an AF, if used for antisupport. If that is the case, then the class really needs fixing or it's just pointless to have it. [-------------------------------------------------] Tears stream behind my visor, but eyes look unblinking at the world |
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:12:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2007 00:15:43
Originally by: Fedman Kasad People tend to think that AFs suck and are useless, but honestly i find it untrue. Being a frigate class ship doesn't automatically mean "tackler", and that's key. I find them much more useful for light anti-support(in fleet battles ofcourse), my Jag works perfectly fine killing all other frigate classed ships and even dictors and on top of that can field a point or a web or even both at the expense of tank. And that's what they should be used for imho, since they are slow for tacklers(compared with other frigs/inties) and their DPS is not all that high to bother shooting primaries that are usually BC or higher. So that leaves the sweet job of killing all the ew frigs, destroyers, dictors and depending on the situation even t1 cruisers.
Most people in Eve don't even do fleet battles (and many of us fly solo, anyway), and at any rate, you might want to try the Trasher for the job you're doing. It has an upside of being able to very often one-volley things (at greater range), as well as fly around at a decent 2km/s (without a tank, though). Also, tons cheaper then a Jaguar - the only real expense is all the T2 small arties.
Also, bear in mind that the other AFs are typically worse then the Jaguar for the thing you've described. Most of them are painfully slow and unmaneuverable compared to the Jaguar. For the solo / small gang pilot, they really have no clear role, and everything they do CAN be done more cheaply with a T1 frig or better and still more cheaply with a cruiser.
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Ollie TT
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Posted - 2007.09.19 00:25:00 -
[52]
I do not think anti support is a valid role for them as it stands. Dessies, intys, BCs, HACs do this better imho.
I think if they where to be changed then heavy tackler should be the role they fill. Then you have intys for long range tackling: High speed to cover distance, scan res to get fast point, tackle outside web range. With the AF's being a touch slower while still faster than cruisers, enough tank to survive inside web range and enough cap for holding a prolonged point+web on BS's ect..
The jag can probably get closest to filling the heavy tackle role atm, the rest are way to slow.
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Gin Moon
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Posted - 2007.09.19 02:03:00 -
[53]
I sorta agree with the OP. But I also agree with the point that the AF's are semi broken. Now I don't think they should be a wtfpwn mobile against smaller ships, they can already do that semi decent. But I do think that as a T2 ship they should be pretty effective against Cruisers at the least. A T1 fitted Cruiser wins over an AF right now, even with great frig specialized skills in your favor. A Cruiser with any T2 on it? forget it.
Now I'm a new AF pilot, and was really hoping to be able to stand up against Cruisers a bit more, sad to say that I've had to tuck my tail between my legs and run when they were only halfway through shields and I was getting into hull.
But I don't wanna cry and complain until I get everything my way, they are still pretty great in a group, and with a wingman or two, even if called primary, will last long enough to blow up anything Cruiser sized or below.
Minnie AF's are on the low end for AF as far as I've seen, albeit the Jag does have some rocking speed. The lack of CPU on the Wolf makes it stuck to a cookie cutter fitting, and a lot less fun to fly. I was loving my Jag until I found a nice little bug with NPC's and was told to sit on it, as it wont get replaced. Oh well, saving up for my next one anyways.
AF's are fun, but need some work. A third mid and a little extra CPU on a Wolf would do wonders, or the ability to take out something other than an Ibis for the Jag would be welcome.
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Raxlar Kalimar
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Posted - 2007.09.19 02:15:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Raxlar Kalimar on 19/09/2007 02:18:14 Ok all I can say is no just please please please no.
Do you guys know how much DPS a wolf has with AC's?!
This proves why wolfs are made to be autocannon boats:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=493774
Pritty much mirrors my experiance in both solo and gangs. My kill ratio is very nice.
If you want a paper thin tank with nice alpha get a Thrasher its cheaper.
So stop trying to mess with my fave ship, my fave setup and get with the program people.
Assalt ships do need a boost but leave my wolf alone!
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.19 04:16:00 -
[55]
Originally by: haq aan Please fix Minmatar AFs.
fixed
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Aehriman
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Posted - 2007.09.19 05:39:00 -
[56]
Jag is fantastic as is, if you want to fight with ACs you can, if you want arty you can (280's are fun too people).
Same with the Wolf, and yes she does pwn hard with a med extender and ACs with a gank fit. Sure you can't tackle, but isn't that what your Crows/Stilleto's are for?
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Mortuus
Minmatar Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.19 05:39:00 -
[57]
Wrong toon
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Sabaton
Caldari Cosmic Odyssey YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.09.19 05:40:00 -
[58]
That would be really sweet, sign for minmatar justice!
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WCBirdman
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Posted - 2007.09.19 07:40:00 -
[59]
/signed. change it pls.
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Essque
Starlancers Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.09.19 13:56:00 -
[60]
I've started a similar topic in these very forums when I first saw the notes for the patch that made the changes. Linky here...
That was over 15 months ago... It would be definitely nice to have this fixed, eventually. After all this time, I still think I was right. AC wolf simply sucks. I wouldn't use it with anything but arty. And the Jag with ACs is really sweet. So swap the bonuses already. Please.
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