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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.24 01:55:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: xS0u1zx
hmmm let's see 300 m/s x 60 x 60 is 1080 km/hr you know there's 60 seconds in a minute and 60 minutes in an hour and second 3,000m/s x 60 x 60 *or the last answer times 10* is 10,800 km/hr. Yes you know we currently may be able to go faster than that, however look at the ship size differences, sure a fighter plane can go like mach 4, a space shuttle can probably go like 18,000 km/hr but you think we can get a ship say several million kilograms to go that fast *not m3 people I don't even wanna add in that factor*, I don't think so.
Isn't the shuttle's speed based on it's ground speed? I'm not sure that's a good frame of reference to use when comparing speeds.
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Whiners - Unite! | Posting and You
Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist. |
Oak Rayven
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Posted - 2007.08.24 02:00:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Matalino
Edited by: Matalino on 23/08/2007 04:17:08
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Acacia Everto
I may not remember the formula or be using the right one, but here's what I got:
E = 1/2mv^2
0.5 * 55000 * (200*1000)^2 = 1,100,000,000,000,000 joules = 1.1 petajoules
1.1 petajoules is made by approximately 7,722,953.55 US gallons of jet fuel.
Anyone care to turn that into output per hour for the average nuclear power plant? 
That is 1 hour's output from all of the world's modern nuclear power plants. You looking at about 12 days output from a single plant. 
Per Shot.
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DarthMopp
Gallente
I.O.S. - I.D.I.O.T.s in outer Space
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Posted - 2007.08.24 04:33:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Maridius Secundus
Ok, we've established that our toys are very powerful so imagine when we can land on planets, kill a couple deer with a 125 mm slug and come back home in time for dinner.
Instant Chop-suey.....thats what i call technological progress....
oh and by the way...for anyone who is interested how modern 120mm shells are designed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinmetall_L44nullModern MBT Guns and Shells[/url]
"Alea iacta est" |
Sessho Seki
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Posted - 2007.08.24 05:50:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Sessho Seki on 24/08/2007 05:53:07
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: Sharupak
Originally by: DarthMopp
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: DarthMopp
absolutely unusable for atmospherical bombardement. (even if i miscalculated in any way)
Added to the normal velocity of the Projectile comes the Gravitational Constant of every Planet which adds to the velocity....then Atmosphere friction sets in and will either let the projectile burn to ashes or bounce it back into space. (Remember the SpaceShuttle Columbia that exploded while going back to earth ? Atmospheric Friction = BAD and she was only traveling with Mach 6)
What leads you to believe they'd disintigrate before impact?
Ever saw a falling Star ?
Thats why i believe they would disintegrate....and they would disintegrate even faster the higher their velocity is !
And yes..the Discovery would have made it if the plating would have been intact. I assumed the projectiles we are talking about wouldnt have such resistances :D *lol* My fault ! :-))
Got me curious...what keeps ICBMs from burning up in the atmosphere? Do they just not go high enough?
UHM LOL. Things burn up in the atmosphere because of the immense speed they fall at. Then as the atmopshere thickens as they get closer to the earth. As it barrels tword earth the molocules in the air rub against it "like when you rub your hands together for warmth but on sterioids". This immense friction burns it up.
ICBMs fly above & outside the Earth's atmosphere. They also tend to detonate in the air for maximum effect too "if it detonated on the ground the blast would be directed up because of the curvature of the earth".
It's clear that a LOT of people are allowing themselves to be confused by how atmospheric friction works and how detrimental it is to an body entering it at high speed.
First, typically things entering the atmosphere do indeed tend to bounce off or burn up based mostly upon angle and relatively small mass. However, it is incredibly easy for even relatively small objects, depending on their makeup, to penetrate the atmosphere and impact the planet. For instance, the barringer crater in Arizona was made by an object 50m across and was going more than a dozen km/s. Even as recently as 1908 was the 'Tunguska Event' where another meteorite struck in the Russian wilderness penetrated the atmosphere quite easily but due to instability within the meteorite itself it exploded about 5km from a surface impact, but none the less leveled a tremendous area of land and unleashed a blast upwards of 1,000 times that of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima (Little Boy).
Now the size has a great deal to do with the potential of a foreign body penetrating the atmosphere successfully, but more than anything it's what's inside that counts (see, your Mom was right!). An asteroid of heavy metals like iron, nickel, and so on can actually penetrate quite easily compared to those of mostly mineral. Beyond that, speed has a very large factor as well, as once the object is traveling at incredible speeds well in excess of 5-10km/s the atmospheric friction effect literally only effects the impacting meteorite for a very few seconds if it is directly plunging into the atmosphere. Which leads to yet another factor, angle of entry, if it's very oblique (like a space shuttle entry is supposed to be) then the atmosphere can have a far higher effect over a much longer time and will therefore more readily burn up anything entering the atmosphere, however the more acute the angle is perpendicular to the horizon, the higher the potential of negating much of the atmosphere's ability to prevent an impact of the planet.
As far as ICBM's go, they do enter a full strategic orbit should they wish/need to based on range to the target, however upon re-entry due to the material, shape, speed, and angle which are all carefully calculated, the warhead has little difficulty coming back into the atmosphere with no significant damage to the actual functioning of the weapon.
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DarthMopp
Gallente
I.O.S. - I.D.I.O.T.s in outer Space
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:00:00 -
[125]
Now THAT was a nice explanation of how friction works...
I guess a 3500mm projectile could penetrate the Atmosphere if fired in an accurate angle, with matching speed and being made out of the right components. All carefully calculated.
BUT...how powerful would the impact be ? Would it be that devastating as stated in this thread ? Would it be able to lead to complete extinction ? I seriously doubt that.
"Alea iacta est" |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:03:00 -
[126]
Originally by: DarthMopp
Now THAT was a nice explanation of how friction works...
I guess a 3500mm projectile could penetrate the Atmosphere if fired in an accurate angle, with matching speed and being made out of the right components. All carefully calculated.
BUT...how powerful would the impact be ? Would it be that devastating as stated in this thread ? Would it be able to lead to complete extinction ? I seriously doubt that.
it might, 3500mm.... with gravity.. I'm an artist damn it :P so yes in my artist mind it would work but that is backed by nothing other than it would be cool to animate :)
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I'm working my way through college
target CCP
need...more room... |
DarthMopp
Gallente
I.O.S. - I.D.I.O.T.s in outer Space
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:22:00 -
[127]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: DarthMopp
Now THAT was a nice explanation of how friction works...
I guess a 3500mm projectile could penetrate the Atmosphere if fired in an accurate angle, with matching speed and being made out of the right components. All carefully calculated.
BUT...how powerful would the impact be ? Would it be that devastating as stated in this thread ? Would it be able to lead to complete extinction ? I seriously doubt that.
it might, 3500mm.... with gravity.. I'm an artist damn it :P so yes in my artist mind it would work but that is backed by nothing other than it would be cool to animate :)
WELLLLL....in game i would love to see a HUUUUUUUGE explosion too To be honest i often tend to waste my precious ammo shooting on structures just to see them explode...my personal New_Years-EvE
"Alea iacta est" |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:25:00 -
[128]
Originally by: DarthMopp
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: DarthMopp
Now THAT was a nice explanation of how friction works...
I guess a 3500mm projectile could penetrate the Atmosphere if fired in an accurate angle, with matching speed and being made out of the right components. All carefully calculated.
BUT...how powerful would the impact be ? Would it be that devastating as stated in this thread ? Would it be able to lead to complete extinction ? I seriously doubt that.
it might, 3500mm.... with gravity.. I'm an artist damn it :P so yes in my artist mind it would work but that is backed by nothing other than it would be cool to animate :)
WELLLLL....in game i would love to see a HUUUUUUUGE explosion too To be honest i often tend to waste my precious ammo shooting on structures just to see them explode...my personal New_Years-EvE
and then the number one thing that people at my school ask about when I first tell them about eve and more importantly titans, comes to mind...
can you blow up planets
hehe, oh the millions of problems blowing up a planet would bring :P
I think blowing up a moon would be cool, then you could like mine it still or something lol.
I love my classmates :P
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I'm working my way through college
target CCP
need...more room... |
DarthMopp
Gallente
I.O.S. - I.D.I.O.T.s in outer Space
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:47:00 -
[129]
Thats because of StarWars....Deathstar ftw!
I want to have one in EvE too....and X-Wings which i could fly with a joystick...
Geez...guess i turned away from topic a little...
Hmm..i guess CCP wont let us destroy their carefully designed Planets at all....
Anyone remembering the super-weapon from WingCommander III where you could destroy the kilrathi Homeplanet ?
"Alea iacta est" |
Kolatha
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:47:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Cornucopian
guns that shoot missiles :-) awesome.....
next will be missiles with gun turrets on em ;-)
Already in Eve Linkage
From the description.
Quote:
Rocket-assisted artillery projectiles designed for longe-range combat.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:55:00 -
[131]
Originally by: DarthMopp
Thats because of StarWars....Deathstar ftw!
I want to have one in EvE too....and X-Wings which i could fly with a joystick...
Geez...guess i turned away from topic a little...
Hmm..i guess CCP wont let us destroy their carefully designed Planets at all....
Anyone remembering the super-weapon from WingCommander III where you could destroy the kilrathi Homeplanet ?
have you read the resent interview?
they talked about joystick control fighting with fighters that are launched out of carriers.
they also talk about this in eve TV1. the ten year university interviews.
Basicly they both talk about how eve is a one dimensional game, and it can be more. much more.
for anyone going I'll leave rawr, don't worry they won't put it in or else we'll be hit by the lagstick *winterblink*
but yes it's coming. and eve as we know it will fade. but hell mmorpgs fade away all the time. I think it rocks that a game company is thinking about expanding inwards for once.
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I'm working my way through college
target CCP
need...more room... |
DarthMopp
Gallente
I.O.S. - I.D.I.O.T.s in outer Space
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Posted - 2007.08.24 07:08:00 -
[132]
"Who wants to rent a "Class-A-TopGun" WingCommander/X-Wing vs. Tie-Fighter hardened Fighter Pilot ?"
or : "Will fly for isk"
Now then we start talking about skills And not somethign everybody can achieve with enough time 
"Alea iacta est" |
vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.24 07:25:00 -
[133]
Well...
First of all, as someone mentioned there is a starting point for weapon power in EVE. There is (or was) a real world 280mm artillery with nuclear shells, and its warhead was around 15 kilotons.
Weapon yield does not go up in EVE as the cube of the calibre as it possibly should; IIRC each size class goes up by roughly 2x so a capital-class XL shell only does 8x the damage of a small one. Considering that the capital artillery is a quad 3500mm, this ought to be more like 7800 times the yield - or about 120 megatons. Nasty, but not a world-wrecker - especially since quite a lot of its mass is tritanium, stated to be unstable in atmosphere. In other words, it would burn up. Maybe this is one of the reasons why it uses tritanium - after all, the BPs come from the empires, and they hardly want any BS pilot of 3 months' experience to level cities at a whim, do they?
A couple more things - AM shells; how much of its mass is actually antimatter? Probably not a lot. And for nuclear rounds smaller than the nuclear S described; well, uranium and plutonium are not the only fissile materials. I believe that if you could get hold of enough californium, it could make a nice small nuke.
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"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.24 07:32:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Kolatha
Originally by: Cornucopian
guns that shoot missiles :-) awesome.....
next will be missiles with gun turrets on em ;-)
Already in Eve Linkage
From the description.
Quote:
Rocket-assisted artillery projectiles designed for longe-range combat.
noooo these are guns that fire missiles.... NOT missiles with guns on them still cool though.
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"post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.24 07:35:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Cornucopian
Originally by: Kolatha
Originally by: Cornucopian
guns that shoot missiles :-) awesome.....
next will be missiles with gun turrets on em ;-)
Already in Eve Linkage
From the description.
Quote:
Rocket-assisted artillery projectiles designed for longe-range combat.
noooo these are guns that fire missiles.... NOT missiles with guns on them still cool though.
ever wondwer why minmtatar have such sick fall off range?
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I'm working my way through college
target CCP
need...more room... |
Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.08.24 07:55:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Jizuonme Chin
On top of all that, our ships only travel ~300m/s... Which is the equivalent of what... 670mph? Geez, a 747 can do that!
Even with MWD, maybe 3km/sec? Space shuttle beats that...
You'd think speeds would be faster huh?
Oh? A freighter does about 0.6 AU/second while in warp, which is approximately 89.8 gigametres (1 Gm = 1 million km) a second.
Interceptors and interdictors go in excess of 13.5 AU/second. That fast enough for you?
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cuteboylookingatyou
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Posted - 2007.08.24 10:41:00 -
[137]
Powerful enough that if some ships came to orbital flight and hit you with a civilian blaster with the lowest possible damage your entire house would blow up and the house across the street from you would start burning.
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asgghsfdgsgsg
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Posted - 2007.08.31 12:37:00 -
[138]
Originally by: MotherMoon
ever wondwer why minmtatar have such sick fall off range?
No friction?
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Sessho Seki
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Posted - 2007.09.01 00:34:00 -
[139]
Originally by: asgghsfdgsgsg
Originally by: MotherMoon
ever wondwer why minmtatar have such sick fall off range?
No friction?
it's space, it's called 'space' because there isn't much or any 'stuff' there to cause friction on anything, so there would be no (appreciable) friction on the projectile fired by anyone and especially not in the relatively minuscule ranges that they are fired in this game... it being 'space' and all, it tends to not only be empty, but there is a lot of empty out there...
however it's also a video game, so some corners are clearly 'cut'.
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Sharupak
Minmatar
Knights Of the Black Sun
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.09.01 02:31:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Sharupak on 01/09/2007 02:31:54
Originally by: DarthMopp
Now THAT was a nice explanation of how friction works...
I guess a 3500mm projectile could penetrate the Atmosphere if fired in an accurate angle, with matching speed and being made out of the right components. All carefully calculated.
BUT...how powerful would the impact be ? Would it be that devastating as stated in this thread ? Would it be able to lead to complete extinction ? I seriously doubt that.
Well as was said, the crater in arizona was caused by an object 50m across. In my previous post, I know the Navy is working on a rocket assisted projectile that by the time it hits the target, it will be doing mach5 which has enough kinetic energy to put a piece of steel rebar through 20 ft of concrete. This projectile weights a mere 50lbs or less
Now imagine a 3500mm projectile probably weighing in the neighborhood of 100,000 lbs going 20,000 mph
I think planetary extinction would be imminent!
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RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2007.09.01 16:54:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Marine HK4861
Originally by: Sharupak
Actually, that is not entirely true. The U.S. Navy is developing guns that shoot missles. I could shoot aircraft, shore targets, other ships and believe it or not missles (although, only certain types of missles and it would probably be your last option).
This sounds like a good replacement for defender missiles. A high slot small turret with negligible damage, but insane ROF and range.
both the russians and americans have had tube launched atgm for decades now. the americans pretty much gave up on the idea but the russians pushed ahead with theirs and the americans are returning to the idea lately.
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Ehranavaar
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Posted - 2007.09.01 17:07:00 -
[142]
Well as was said, the crater in arizona was caused by an object 50m across. In my previous post, I know the Navy is working on a rocket assisted projectile that by the time it hits the target, it will be doing mach5 which has enough kinetic energy to put a piece of steel rebar through 20 ft of concrete. This projectile weights a mere 50lbs or less
Now imagine a 3500mm projectile probably weighing in the neighborhood of 100,000 lbs going 20,000 mph
I think planetary extinction would be imminent!
given the rock that caused the crater in arizona was far larger and going about the same speed you are a very long ways from a planetary extinction event. to get to that kind of energy release you need a mass on the order of a hundred tonnes moving a a high fraction of C say .8 or .9. had a nice chat about that in the david weber newsgroup one time complete with math.
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