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Sentry guns in low-sec really necessary now?

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Laura Steel Minmatar Independent Interspace Industiers Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.23 13:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Bizz Lizz Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 23/08/2007 13:10:15 Originally by: Tortun Nahme even if they arent necessary, are they unnecessary? Is there a difference between not necessary and unnecessary ? I'm confused. Language barreer perhaps. Necessary - Needed Unnecessary - Not Needed ---- Darn exclamation mark! I have brown hair, green eyes and a nice tan :)
Zimjin Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.23 14:26:00 - [32] Originally by: Tulayia Now that we have a warp to 0km, whats the point of sentry guns? I've, well, my main has been a pirate since beta in eve and ever since sentry guns, I hated them, personally I think they ruined eve. But now, theres warp to 0km, even more safety for travelers. Why must we still have sentry guns. .5+ Space is like 1.0space with the uber target jamming, nosing concord, why can't .4-.1 be like 0.0 cept for station sentry safety? If anything, sentry guns should be stronger. As it is, they're pretty useless without Concord to back them up. There are always lowsec gatecamps going on and they simply ignore the sentry guns. As it is, the one purpose Sentry guns serve is to stop "casual gate camps". At least now you have to bring a big enough tank to handle the guns in order to do the gatecamp. And really, it's not like warp-to-zero stopped gatecamping, it only fixed the problem from one direction and IMO, it fixed it from the WRONG direction. People on the inside can always setup safespots to scan the gate and see if it's safe. It's people on the outside coming in who have zero chance against a gatecamp, which is probably why EVE will never be popular as a PvP game: "zoneline camping" didn't make Everquest PvP popular either.
Lewis Breaker	Posted - 2007.08.23 14:42:00 - [33] thread of the day, this guy must be like 8 years old or something
Scouteye Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.23 14:48:00 - [34] Look at this from another poitn of view, that fo the NPC, of the factions that own the gats and stations. High sec has both, low sec has both, 0.0 still has station guns. Why? Because the NPC or players own them, the guns are there to protech the investment of these NPC factions and of those fling in their space under the NPC factions laws. WHy do you think the gates in 0.0 are all the same wth no guns? No one owns them. One of the biggest things in game design is that no matter how far you push the boundries you still need to make sure your story line or world has its roots in the reality we all known. If you do your research into games you will see tat those that have pushed things way out and have little to no connection owht our real world fail time and time again. Whether you realise it or not our sub-consious still looks for things we can connect to our real world and its onyl when glaringly obvious things occur in a game does it realy kick in and we dont beilve things. In our world if you stuck a big stargate in space you can bet who ever put it there is going to have some serious protection on it, to protech it and to protech those using it. Proteching their investment. And thats what the NPC are doing, the bacground storyline of eve is far from our world but yet so beliveable because it follows the rules, the npc act like we would do. if you change that you move further from an acceptible sotryline and we start to disbelive so much we dotn enjoy it anymore, its not as absorbing or real. its not a game mechanic to stop camping, its a there, even though it seems so small, to make us believe and get deeper into the game. Game desgn genius IMO
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.23 14:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Laura Steel Originally by: Bizz Lizz Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 23/08/2007 13:10:15 Originally by: Tortun Nahme even if they arent necessary, are they unnecessary? Is there a difference between not necessary and unnecessary ? I'm confused. Language barreer perhaps. Necessary - Needed Unnecessary - Not Needed Not Necessary = this thing is not indispensable (green light for a system when all is ok) Unnecessary = this thing isn't useful and somewhat damaging (10 different blinking lights to say the same thing 1 single light can say)
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.23 15:10:00 - [36] Originally by: Bizz Lizz Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 23/08/2007 13:10:15 Originally by: Tortun Nahme even if they arent necessary, are they unnecessary? Is there a difference between not necessary and unnecessary ? I'm confused. Language barreer perhaps. yup! For instance, it is not necessary for me to select any specific clothing to wear before I go out, but it isn't unnecessary for me to select SOMETHING (public nudity being socially unacceptable ) Unnecessary in this context would mean they are detrimental, in this case they are not, because they are providing an intended service, but they aren't exactly necessary either, because there are plenty of ways to avoid a gate gank in low sec anyway Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums: Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.23 15:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Tulayia Ok, you go tank the sentries and fight me 1v1, see who wins.. I bet you 9billion isk, which is all my isk, youll lose. Is that bet valid against a mother-ship? if yes.. just gime a second. I will call some IAC friends that would love to get 9 bil. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2007.08.23 15:36:00 - [38] I think the cannons remind you that you're an outlaw, not just a coward who wants free ganks but can't hack it in 0.0 Afterall, without those cannons, all your sec level means is that you can't enter empire without getting popped. Frankly, we both know you're not going into empire anyway, because your alts are doing it for you. So what does that leave? Denied territory? Like you care, its not like anyone cares they can't enter BoB/Goon space unharmed. Man up, "pirate". Fit to deal with sentry cannons, the way 0.0 has to fit for fleet battle, and empire has to fit for suicide ganks.
Berias Venthal Gallente Merchant Miners Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.23 16:20:00 - [39] Well a big difference between 0.0 and lowsec is that warp bubbles cant be put up in lowsec.. So without sentries there would still be a difference. I think that sentries should stay, but decreasing with sec level.
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.08.23 22:54:00 - [40] You know, you give all these excuses as to why there should be sentry guns in low sec, but why must they be indestructable? How is that balanced. How is that fair? You guys still fail to answer that question.
Lews Stark COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.23 23:07:00 - [41] Originally by: Tulayia Why do you guys want a free ride all the time. Why must you be that much safer? Why do you guy want to gank people that much safer? Stop whining because you need a tank to get easy kills.
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 23:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Tulayia Ok, you go tank the sentries and fight me 1v1, see who wins.. I bet you 9billion isk, which is all my isk, youll lose. i accept it.
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.08.24 00:08:00 - [43] You accept that challenge? Now lets be realistic here, Don't bring your 35b mothership or your 2billion carrier/dreadnaught. Im talking Battleship or smaller and im not talkin about Faction fitted or officer fitted ships. You bring a T2 or lower fitted battleship and you fight me 1 on 1 with the sentries on you, lets see who wins. I gaurantee and bet Ill beat you.
Baron Bonghits GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.24 00:19:00 - [44] Nice backpedaling you feckless human stain.
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.08.24 01:26:00 - [45] Aww whats the matter, can't win without your officer equipment and/or mothership?
Nalt Mcphearme	Posted - 2007.08.24 02:31:00 - [46] Edited by: Nalt Mcphearme on 24/08/2007 02:30:51 aww whats the matter? cant face a mothership carrier or dread even with those uber sentries?
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.08.24 03:18:00 - [47] Yes please, I'd like interceptors at every lowsec gatecamp!!! --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.08.24 03:30:00 - [48] /me goes and tries to claim sov in amamake, otou and rancer - putting the gist back into logistics
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.08.24 03:49:00 - [49] Originally by: Tulayia Aww whats the matter, can't win without your officer equipment and/or mothership? As a high ranking officer of the internet I grant you the rank of internet tough guy
ChimeraRouge Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.08.24 05:44:00 - [50] I agree Sentries should be removed from low sec, you can't catch much with warp to 0. pirates need a buff.
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.08.24 06:04:00 - [51] Originally by: Tulayia You know, you give all these excuses as to why there should be sentry guns in low sec, but why must they be indestructable? How is that balanced. How is that fair? You guys still fail to answer that question. How is it fair that my unarmed hauler full of stuff can't go through a gate because there are 3 BS and a couple of BC sat the other side piloted by you and your mates????? Surely if you wanted fair, you'd be camping in industrials yourself. So, you start camping in Indys, then we'll see about removing gate guns. Fair? Akkarin Hopefully the mods won't play with this one <3 - Immy
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.08.24 06:06:00 - [52] Despite my previous post, I do feel that piracy needs a boost, but I don't feel that removing sentries is the answer. My answer is to allow dictor bubbles in low sec Akkarin Hopefully the mods won't play with this one <3 - Immy
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.08.24 06:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Verite Rendition Sentries still are a decent deterrent to gate camping. Anything smaller than a BC may find itself at risk to a sentry, which limits a camp to only bigger, slower to move, slower to lock ships. Mainly this serves to keep tacklers out of gate camps, which in turn allows for smaller ships to get through. If you got rid of the sentries, it would probably make for more impassible gate camps. that and more the point that in a bs you can travel freely in low sec since attacking a combat orientated bs while having the 4 guns on you would be near to suicide.
Vandagar	Posted - 2007.08.24 07:39:00 - [54] right... most lowsec pirates are only newbie poppers anyways... no skills, just "gank the newbie".
Kayleigh Lothian Minmatar KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.24 09:12:00 - [55] Edited by: Kayleigh Lothian on 24/08/2007 09:17:30 Originally by: Tulayia [snip]but why must they be indestructable? How is that balanced. How is that fair? You guys still fail to answer that question. Ehh, you want to sit in a fast ship at a low sec gate shooting unarmed haulers but be able to flee like a little girl if a Rifter shows up and you complain about "fair"? This is eve, since when have "fair" anything to do about anything? Is it fair to jump a barge with a vaga? Is it fair that Entity has soooo much cooler (and more) stuff then I? Is it fair that Tyrrax can pvp in, and lose, ships I could not begin to afford? Is it fait to destroy what others have put alot of effort into building? F-ing NO, it isn't but we do it anyway. Stop whining and go into nullsec and camp in your ***ty ship there, you will find more fights there anyway. Oups, sorry. Forgot you where not looking for fights, but ganks Edit*: Sorry, forgot to answer your question explicitly. It is not fair, it is a part of the game. It is not supposed to be fair, it is supposed to be adapted to and to be overcome. / Kayleigh, who lost her first Rifter to the gateguns in Jayneleb at the Podion gate just for trying to scramble Kahor ----------------------
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.08.24 11:58:00 - [56] You know, you think im the mr. ganker because I say im a pirate and I don't want sentries. But you don't knowis that ima lonewolf that goes around looking for 1v1's. You know why? Because it's alot more fun, its more indepth to just shooting something and 'ganking'. IF your in a group, it tends to be more boring because itsjust shooting. Im a person that likes grps of 2 to 3 MAX if im not alone. Im speaking out for the career of piracy. I chose this path 4 years ago and 3 years ago there wasn't indestructable sentries at every gate. Now I have kept quiet over these years but now you guys have received another buff, which is warp to zero km which has just reduced our prey by half because now we can't kill anything thats warping to us, only jump in we are reduced to. Don't you think you have enough protection? Why should you be able to travel solo and protected while we have to be in large groups to kill something at a gate and be at a big disadvantage. You have many things to prevent yourself from being killed. - Warp core stabs, if your in a indy, put 4 of em on. That just reduced your chance of dieing by alot. But I forgot, you rather have 4 expanders on. - You have warp to 0km, that means you need to be at the computer while you travel to get this feature, but again, alot of people wanna travel safely, afk. - Criminal flagging - meaning safety and attack on sight at stations for 15minutes. That means every time we shoot something, we gota sit, and not move for 15minutes. What a waste of time. You know your absolutely right, most of the 'pirates' camping gates are just noob gankers, because all the veteran pirates like myself are done with it because the risk vs reward just isn't worth it. Piracy isn't worth it, nor is it profitable. Suiciding on the other hand, is profitable, which is what my new profession is. I kill to make a profit. Thats my fun in this game and you people in indies are my main target. I have a right, as a 4 year veteran and a beta player to voice out my opinion and hope for a change in this game due to recent buffs to safer travel. ITS ToO SAFE. You got 0km warp in, remove sentries or make them destructable. All those things you listed about Entity and Tyrax are possible things, but killing a sentry gun in low sec is impossible. HOW IS THAT BALANCED?
Kayleigh Lothian Minmatar KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.24 12:19:00 - [57] Originally by: Tulayia [snip] - Criminal flagging - meaning safety and attack on sight at stations for 15minutes. That means every time we shoot something, we gota sit, and not move for 15minutes. What a waste of time. [snip] All those things you listed about Entity and Tyrax are possible things, but killing a sentry gun in low sec is impossible. HOW IS THAT BALANCED? Use those 15 minutes to mine in a belt, you might get pirates warping in on you ;) First, no some of the things Entity has is impossible for me to get using in-game means only, but I do not care all that much, because I do not play this game because it is "fair". Second: Ok, "fair" wasn't the issue, it was "BALANCED". Tbqh I do not know if it is ment to be balanced they way you want it. I think the balance lies in that in order to counter the sentries you have to use a bigger ship that locks slower and might miss some game. The risk you run is that if you attack a ship like the one you flies, the other ship will out damage you since it has the sentries on its side, but that should not matter much since you have 4 years of experience and knowledge to fit for that situation, right? What I think you should work for is that it should be "safer" to travle to low sec, making the mining and missioning there more tasty for the empire dwellers. Then you'd get more game in the belts, mission spots and exploration sites. It would take more effort on your side, but it would make it more "profitable" too. That is if you can be arsed to put in more effort then to warp to a gate. Unfortunately it seems that 1vs1 is a truly rare thing in eve now. ----------------------
Xentriath	Posted - 2007.08.24 12:37:00 - [58] Don't change it! I am a pirate as well but don't change it! That is what defines LOW SEC from 0.0. It was a good addition.
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.08.24 12:43:00 - [59] Btw thanks to both guys, who explained the difference between 'not necessary' and 'unnecessary' to me. Good to see that now all my time spend on these forums is 'wasted'.
Tulayia	Posted - 2007.08.24 13:03:00 - [60] Originally by: Kayleigh Lothian Originally by: Tulayia [snip] - Criminal flagging - meaning safety and attack on sight at stations for 15minutes. That means every time we shoot something, we gota sit, and not move for 15minutes. What a waste of time. [snip] All those things you listed about Entity and Tyrax are possible things, but killing a sentry gun in low sec is impossible. HOW IS THAT BALANCED? Use those 15 minutes to mine in a belt, you might get pirates warping in on you ;) First, no some of the things Entity has is impossible for me to get using in-game means only, but I do not care all that much, because I do not play this game because it is "fair". Second: Ok, "fair" wasn't the issue, it was "BALANCED". Tbqh I do not know if it is ment to be balanced they way you want it. I think the balance lies in that in order to counter the sentries you have to use a bigger ship that locks slower and might miss some game. The risk you run is that if you attack a ship like the one you flies, the other ship will out damage you since it has the sentries on its side, but that should not matter much since you have 4 years of experience and knowledge to fit for that situation, right? What I think you should work for is that it should be "safer" to travle to low sec, making the mining and missioning there more tasty for the empire dwellers. Then you'd get more game in the belts, mission spots and exploration sites. It would take more effort on your side, but it would make it more "profitable" too. That is if you can be arsed to put in more effort then to warp to a gate. Unfortunately it seems that 1vs1 is a truly rare thing in eve now. Yea, ive been hearing that for almost 5 years now, people are still scarred ****less of low sec, just try to find one to bring a battleship 1 jump into low sec space.. All you see now are pvpers with their 2 man grps setting up traps for pirates. One sits at opposite gate, pirate warps in, agros, sentries are on him other jumps in, if even need be, and pwns the pilot. You guys (carebears) got the pvpers now, you don't need the sentries anymore. Your only using them now to have a unfair advantage.

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