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ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 23:25:00 - [1] I think gas clouds and the 10/10 complexes should be seeded everywhere throughout eve. I think originally it was a good idea to move these item to exploration, and keep them in the same area, because that stopped the whine fest that would have occurred if they were seeded like any other plex. I like the idea CCP had with the drone regions and I think they should extend that to the other regions around eve. That being that the space you occupy is only as good as you make it. This means that CCP should not make some areas of space have better resources than others, I think that all areas should have thier different 'flavor' but nothing should make one superior, other than the effort one has put into developing said area. I think at the very least that gas clouds, being the result of natural phenomenon, should be seeded everywhere throughout 0.0. And that the blueprints should be available via hacking/archaelogy. Or be seeded on the markets. And I think that the current 10/10 plexes should remain in thier respective area, but new plexes should be made for other areas of space, with equal reward factors as the old ones. . Do not read this thread!!!
Garrett Smith ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:30:00 - [2] Me Too! Boom Shaka Laka Laka, Boom Shaka Laka Laka, Boom Shaka Laka Laka, Boom! -Sahwoolo Etoophie
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 02:20:00 - [3] Why no replies, i see no arguments for or against my idea . Do not read this thread!!!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.28 02:25:00 - [4] Originally by: ghosttr Why no replies, i see no arguments for or against my idea Probably because gas mining is a very rare profession. 99.9% of EVE probably never do it. Add to that that it seems most people avoid boosters anyway. Most 0.0 Alliance pilots I talk to say they played around with it once or twice and never touch the stuff now because the downsides are not worth the benefits. As such you could probably put a gas cloud at the Jita 4-4 undock and people probably wouldn't bother with it.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 03:02:00 - [5] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: ghosttr Why no replies, i see no arguments for or against my idea Probably because gas mining is a very rare profession. 99.9% of EVE probably never do it. Add to that that it seems most people avoid boosters anyway. Most 0.0 Alliance pilots I talk to say they played around with it once or twice and never touch the stuff now because the downsides are not worth the benefits. As such you could probably put a gas cloud at the Jita 4-4 undock and people probably wouldn't bother with it. Well one can also argue that the limited amounts of materials people can mine also have a substantial effect on this. But is also an argument for why we should have more gas clouds. . Do not read this thread!!!
Kyley	Posted - 2007.08.28 03:06:00 - [6] There needs to be B-grade space for subpar alliances to live in though. See Drone regions/Providence.
Irob Urore Amarr Rick Astleys Pirate Corp Of Goodness	Posted - 2007.08.28 03:42:00 - [7] Edited by: Irob Urore on 28/08/2007 03:42:28 Originally by: Kyley There needs to be B-grade space for subpar alliances to live in though. See Drone regions/Providence. I was in the understanding that gas clouds are all over eve space (0.0), to make a certain booster dont you usually require part a) from your region and part b) from a region on the other side of the map? Correct me if im wrong. If your arguing about making 10/10s static again so ppl can go back to farming them 23/7, ummm .. no
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 03:58:00 - [8] Originally by: Irob Urore Edited by: Irob Urore on 28/08/2007 03:42:28 Originally by: Kyley There needs to be B-grade space for subpar alliances to live in though. See Drone regions/Providence. I was in the understanding that gas clouds are all over eve space (0.0), to make a certain booster dont you usually require part a) from your region and part b) from a region on the other side of the map? Correct me if im wrong. If your arguing about making 10/10s static again so ppl can go back to farming them 23/7, ummm .. no Gas clouds are seeded only in certain constellation where the old 10/10 plexes used to be. And I want all of 0.0 to have a chance of finding a 10/10 plex not just a few areas. . Do not read this thread!!!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.28 04:16:00 - [9] Originally by: ghosttr As such you could probably put a gas cloud at the Jita 4-4 undock and people probably wouldn't bother with it. Well one can also argue that the limited amounts of materials people can mine also have a substantial effect on this. But is also an argument for why we should have more gas clouds. Why does this argue for more Gas Clouds? Is there some huge market for Boosters I am missing? Not sure how more or less Gas Clouds would change anything. The stuff needed to get into it is expensive and no one wants the end product.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 04:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: ghosttr As such you could probably put a gas cloud at the Jita 4-4 undock and people probably wouldn't bother with it. Well one can also argue that the limited amounts of materials people can mine also have a substantial effect on this. But is also an argument for why we should have more gas clouds. Why does this argue for more Gas Clouds? Is there some huge market for Boosters I am missing? Not sure how more or less Gas Clouds would change anything. The stuff needed to get into it is expensive and no one wants the end product. The problem isnt that nobody wants them, its that nobody wants them at thier current prices. The high prices are due not only to high costs for the skills + module, it is also because that the materials are not available. If anybody could find a plex and mine the gas i could see the price dropping alot. I (and probably many others) would be willing to pay for 1m boosters, but arent willing to pay 10m for boosters. . Do not read this thread!!!
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.28 04:43:00 - [11] Originally by: ghosttr The high prices are due not only to high costs for the skills + module, it is also because that the materials are not available. If anybody could find a plex and mine the gas i could see the price dropping alot. I (and probably many others) would be willing to pay for 1m boosters, but arent willing to pay 10m for boosters. I fully admit I could be wrong here because I have never played with Boosters but as a die hard miner I looked very closely at going for gas mining (natural progression for what I already do). Talking to people I know in Alliances the impression I got is they would not use Boosters even if they were free. To them the downsides simply outweigh the benefits. Sure the downsides are random but overall they seem to think rolling those dice is just not worth it. Hardly a scientific poll but I have yet to meet anyone who thinks they are great and worthwhile.
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 04:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Originally by: ghosttr The high prices are due not only to high costs for the skills + module, it is also because that the materials are not available. If anybody could find a plex and mine the gas i could see the price dropping alot. I (and probably many others) would be willing to pay for 1m boosters, but arent willing to pay 10m for boosters. I fully admit I could be wrong here because I have never played with Boosters but as a die hard miner I looked very closely at going for gas mining (natural progression for what I already do). Talking to people I know in Alliances the impression I got is they would not use Boosters even if they were free. To them the downsides simply outweigh the benefits. Sure the downsides are random but overall they seem to think rolling those dice is just not worth it. Hardly a scientific poll but I have yet to meet anyone who thinks they are great and worthwhile. Well I think most of it is that people wont use them at their current price, and things should be done to improve the cost/availability. If people still dont use them then CCP should modify them to work better. But it is something CCP definitely needs to look at. . Do not read this thread!!!
Insidi Us Amarr Suicidal Mercenaries The Makhai	Posted - 2007.08.28 05:21:00 - [13] I think the point is that no one uses boosters, regardless of the price, so they should be fixed. I read the booster sticky in the Skills forum, and the first thing that came to mind was "why bother?" I mean, you can get all four (or was it three?) downsides for a measly 25%-ish boost in one area. They'd be much better (and more marketable) if the toxin skill reduced the number of side effects you can possibly catch. So at level 5 you only have the 22.5% chance of getting ONE negative effect, not EACH. ----------- Fight the blob!
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 06:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Insidi Us I think the point is that no one uses boosters, regardless of the price, so they should be fixed. I read the booster sticky in the Skills forum, and the first thing that came to mind was "why bother?" I mean, you can get all four (or was it three?) downsides for a measly 25%-ish boost in one area. They'd be much better (and more marketable) if the toxin skill reduced the number of side effects you can possibly catch. So at level 5 you only have the 22.5% chance of getting ONE negative effect, not EACH. Fixing anything other than the supply first would not be a good thing. Currently they are too expensive and nobody buys them, they also have major drawbacks. If they drawbacks were to be sufficiently reduced so taht people would want them the demand would increase. The prices would skyrocket, and we would be in the same situation we are now. For this reason i think the supply issue should be fixed first, then the drawbacks. I think that the supply issue can be fixed most easily by providing access to gas clouds all over 0.0, and fixing the issue with bpcs either by making them a common reward through hacking sites & in some rat drops, and/or by seeding bpos for the basic versions. Or some combination of the two. . Do not read this thread!!!
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.28 06:39:00 - [15] The general shortage of faction items and their huge price inflation recently is the sole result of the removal of static plexes and the lack of decent exploration sites to drop those items. Either make the exploration ones alot more profitable, or hugely increase thenumber of faction spawns in belts, cause most people i know that used to run plexes now have resorted to belt ratting, creating even more ISK instead of items and thus aiding to the inflation.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.28 06:41:00 - [16] Originally by: ghosttr I think gas clouds and the 10/10 complexes should be seeded everywhere throughout eve. I think originally it was a good idea to move these item to exploration, and keep them in the same area, because that stopped the whine fest that would have occurred if they were seeded like any other plex. I like the idea CCP had with the drone regions and I think they should extend that to the other regions around eve. That being that the space you occupy is only as good as you make it. This means that CCP should not make some areas of space have better resources than others, I think that all areas should have thier different 'flavor' but nothing should make one superior, other than the effort one has put into developing said area. I think at the very least that gas clouds, being the result of natural phenomenon, should be seeded everywhere throughout 0.0. And that the blueprints should be available via hacking/archaelogy. Or be seeded on the markets. And I think that the current 10/10 plexes should remain in thier respective area, but new plexes should be made for other areas of space, with equal reward factors as the old ones. Complexs - it is clear you haven't followed a lot of the discussion about them. They aren't restricted to the same systes/costellation where they where before. They are available in the whole region/metaregion where the kind of NPC present in the complex are the "standard" NPC. Originally CCP planned on giving a bonus chance of them spawning in the old constellation, but then someone run a caulculation about the time needed to find them when they respawned after begin completed wit a dedicated team searching for them in the whole region at the same time and got to the conclusion that they would be run more often that with the old static complexes so the idea of a bonus chance was shelved till a "control" system could be implemented.
CiNi FireStar Inc FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 07:48:00 - [17] Edited by: CiNi on 28/08/2007 07:49:19 Originally by: ghosttr Insert random "buuhuu my region is ****" comment here OK now a serious answer. If they made every region equal in profitability then there would be no real reason for people to fight over regions other than simple conquest. Say for example frege were fed up living in wherever you guys live and fancied stepping up a grade or 2. You could go after delve because there is far far better stuff there, thus giving u a prize to fight for and the defenders a reason to fight for thier space (other than the obvious) This is the reason why there are better regions, to promote shootyshooty in this PvP game we play. To the winners go the spoils of war etc etc As for the 10/10 plex's and the current prices of the uber items........ well, they are uber items, they are supposed to be expensive. Not everyone is supposed to be flying with core/gist/corpum whatever. They are supposed to be rare and expensive, thats why they are rare and well, expensive. Firestar Is Recruiting Again For A Short Time!!
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.28 08:16:00 - [18] Originally by: ghosttr nothing should make one superior As CiNi above, I think the game works better if you have something worth of fighting for. For example, see all the bickering in CAOD forums about who got right to which 10/10 plex, even among the allies. -Lasse in process of becoming X-Instinct addict
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 08:19:00 - [19] no, no and NO. plexes were made exploration to stop the few becoming hideously rich, and farming them. Now they are for whoever wants to spend the hours actually finding them. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.08.28 08:55:00 - [20] Edited by: Cadiz on 28/08/2007 08:58:24 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Most 0.0 Alliance pilots I talk to say they played around with it once or twice and never touch the stuff now because the downsides are not worth the benefits. They're newbs, then. Stuff like Exile and Blue Pill is utterly fantastic, especially for capital pilots. Dread pilots should always have doses of this stuff on hand if hostile retaliation is expected. Beyond just the tanking stuff, Crash can increase missile damage by 20%+ if you're shooting at undersized targets with stuff like heavy or cruise missiles, and a shot of Drop will let most non-BS gunships hit orbiting nano-cruisers with surprising ease. Nano-Curse orbiting you at 25 - 28km and nossing away? Pop some Drop and open up with your 250mm rails or whatever you like to play with; you'll start tearing big chunks out of him. Bonus fun if you happen to be in something that already has a tracking bonus, like a Muninn. X-Instinct is pretty much a no-brainer for nano pilots, especially if you have to deal with lots of hostile nanoships. The extra speed can really give you an edge in nano-vs-nano brawls. Most boosters only have one genuinely vexing side effect; the rest tend to range from "relative nonissue" to "annoying but manageable". Usually you'll only get hit with one side effect when popping standard strength boosters, and statistically, odds are in your favour that you'll get smacked by nonissue penalties. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Fakespace	Posted - 2007.08.28 09:45:00 - [21] Originally by: ghosttr Originally by: Irob Urore Edited by: Irob Urore on 28/08/2007 03:42:28 Originally by: Kyley There needs to be B-grade space for subpar alliances to live in though. See Drone regions/Providence. I was in the understanding that gas clouds are all over eve space (0.0), to make a certain booster dont you usually require part a) from your region and part b) from a region on the other side of the map? Correct me if im wrong. If your arguing about making 10/10s static again so ppl can go back to farming them 23/7, ummm .. no Gas clouds are seeded only in certain constellation where the old 10/10 plexes used to be. And I want all of 0.0 to have a chance of finding a 10/10 plex not just a few areas. Totally wrong... both gas clouds and 10/10 complexes spawns all over 0.0, except for drone space ofc (i'v found both in places you say they shouldnt be, they are rare as "#ñ&, but they DO exsist) However, the gas sites you can find outside the 0.0 cosmos places only got like 200 units of gas in them. The massive gas clouds only spawns in the cosmos places.
Sen Goku Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.28 10:37:00 - [22] Originally by: Cadiz Edited by: Cadiz on 28/08/2007 09:33:17 Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Most 0.0 Alliance pilots I talk to say they played around with it once or twice and never touch the stuff now because the downsides are not worth the benefits. They're newbs who haven't seriously put the stuff through the paces, then. Stuff like Exile and Blue Pill is utterly fantastic, especially for capital pilots. Dread pilots should always have doses of this stuff on hand if hostile retaliation is expected. Beyond just the tanking stuff, Crash can increase missile damage by 20%+ if you're shooting at undersized targets with guided missiles, and a shot of Drop will let most non-BS gunships hit orbiting nano-cruisers with surprising ease. Nano-Curse orbiting you at 25 - 28km and nossing away? Pop some Drop and open up with your 250mm rails or whatever you like to play with; you'll start tearing big chunks out of him. Bonus fun if you happen to be in something that already has a tracking bonus, like a Muninn. X-Instinct is pretty much a no-brainer for nano pilots, especially if you have to deal with lots of hostile nanoships. The extra speed can really give you an edge in nano-vs-nano brawls. Most boosters only have one genuinely vexing side effect; the rest tend to range from "relative nonissue" to "annoying but manageable". Usually you'll only get hit with one side effect when popping standard strength boosters, and statistically, odds are in your favour that you'll get smacked by nonissue penalties. Sure, some of the boosters may look kinda pricey, and I'd agree that most of the improved/strong booster sell orders you see cost far too much for what they do, but the standard stuff is good value. Think of it this way - you spend 5-10mil on a dose of, say, Blue Pill and keep your Sleipnir alive in a fight...or your Sleipnir gets popped because your tank got overpowered and you're looking at well over a hundred million isk in replacement & refitting costs. The 10% - 25% edge boosters provide can very easily be the difference between collecting an insurance payout or walking out of an engagement still in one piece. This man speaks the truth. The side effects are really not that bad, and with the appropriate skills trained no big deal. It's not just cap pilots that benefit from these though. If you were a pirate inclined kind of pilot, just think how that blue pill or exile will help you camp a lowsec gate for example. Boosters have a market, and prices are going down, at least with us. When it comes down to it, it's up to the individual to decide if they want to make use of these things or not. To the OP, I'd have to disagree that booster stuff should be seeded everywhere (of course I would say that ), as there is no risk reward factor. Whats the point in having 0.0 at all if everything is available in empire space? Granted it is a pretty tricky business to get into, but isn't that part of the appeal of these things? Personally I don't think Boosters need a rethink, just how the pilots of eve look at them at the moment.
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.08.28 11:07:00 - [23] Edited by: Cadiz on 28/08/2007 11:11:51 Originally by: Sen Goku Personally I don't think Boosters need a rethink, just how the pilots of eve look at them at the moment. Definitely the case here. Due to my corp's location we have fairly consistent access to Blue Pill & Crash, and nearly all of our Raven pilots who have decided to give said boosters serious test runs are now wildly in love with the stuff. There's something to be said about hitting cruiser-sized targets for 100% damage with t2 precision cruises, I suppose. Now if Crash would just affect non-guided missiles as well... Most people just look at the side-effects, perhaps misunderstand what it means (maybe they think you get hit by all of them or somesuch?), and immediately write it off in their minds. I know I was in this school of thought too...until I saw it in action, whereupon I started actively experimenting with boosters and analyzing the numbers. The results caused me to look at them in a whole new light. I figure in maybe six months or so, the majority populace will start to realize the charm of boosters. In the meanwhile, the early adopters can be nasty surprises for the uninitiated. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Dred 'Morte Winds of Dawn Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 11:20:00 - [24] Cadiz, aren't you missing the whole point? What you're saying is your corp has access to these boosters because of it's location but the majority of EVE doesn't. That's unfair. One thing is a region having slighty better rat/roid spawns on average, but currently not only boosters, but also plexes, encounters and even the previously mentioned rat/roid spawns are completly unbalanced, someone regions being much, much better than others. It's just isn't fair. It's understandable that one region is slighty better than the other so X alliance wants to conquer it, but right now things are much more extreme. And then there is the fact that some rats are easily killed by x race but not y race. Even more unfair, as it basicly means only two ships can rat everywhere, Raven and Dominix. The problem behind boosters affects many other things.
Sen Goku Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.28 12:44:00 - [25] Dred, its easy to get boosters, just get in touch with us or Corelli, or any of the other corps that are selling them.
Mr. Orange Gallente Band of Freelancers	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:51:00 - [26] Variety is the spice of life! If every region was the same, there would be not point to war and conquest! Having regions with specific benefits encourages player vs player interaction which can lead to all kind of good things such as trading or warfare! If every region dropped/provided the same thing in same quantities, EvE would become VERY boring VERY fast. Another thing, before you get on your soapbox about the cost of Combat Boosters, try to investigate the process first. The amount of time needed in skilling and the whole industrial infrastructure is a huge investment, nevermind the amount of time needed to get to the final booster product. The current booster prices are LOW considering the amount of time and effort needed to make these things. You can make a lot more isk with safe empire mining...
ghosttr Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:54:00 - [27] At the very minimum gas clouds should be available in all regions. If they are supposed to a natural formation such as roids or ice. Then they should be available all over 0.0, not just in a few "chosen" areas. Having them only in certain area is just as asinine as if CCP only put roids in one area. Now I can understand the blueprints for them being only in NPC areas, but the drop rate needs to be increased, or maybe some bpos seeded. Its also stupid that one region of 0.0 gets complexes that are alot better than others. TO the allaince that hold where the old plexes were this didnt remove thier isk-farm, it only hid it from view, all of us should have a chance of find a 10/10 plex. Not just a few areas. . Do not read this thread!!!
SghnDubh BattleClinic	Posted - 2007.08.28 13:55:00 - [28] - Call it a tangent, but frankly the idea of "mining" gas clouds for boosters always seemed silly to me. Boosters and the means for making them should be supplied by running criminal missions. It would give these types of mission runners a method to contribute to the economy. Instead of "gas clouds" being the raw materials for boosters, make reactions the raw materials. "Mining" gas clouds for rare materials usable in implants or rigs seems more interesting and more plausible than for boosters... . Fight Smart: http://www.BattleClinic.com
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.08.28 14:18:00 - [29] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 28/08/2007 14:19:06 I'm going to use my favoruite EvE-O answer for this one. No. With some No on it. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
FunniLookin	Posted - 2007.08.28 14:52:00 - [30] The drone regions are crap you dont like it go win better space not b**** on the forums about it IBTL

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