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Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:17:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Kerfira on 04/09/2007 20:28:16 This is the whiney'est thread since the last thread about the compression nerf.....
Mission runners can make at least ~40m/hour in the right ship with good skills now (yes, I do that myself, in high-sec), and that amount has been BOOSTED by CCP at least three times during the last year:
1. Salvage added. This is a VERY significant addition to the value of loot gained from a mission. 2. Mission LP improvements. Huge addition of items to LP store mean higher average LP price. Not to mention the fact that faction items and hardwire implants are now much more available to make mission running faster. 3. Reduction of small ships in missions and more big ones added. The big ships are on a 'per ISK' basis much easier to kill than the multitudes of small ships they replace, and much easier to loot/salvage.
Before these changes, I could max. make ~25m/hour in the same ship (faction fitted CNR in case you're wondering).
Mission running NEEDS a nerf, since it simply out-competes any other activity in the game for ISK-making (trading aside), and this nerf doesn't go far enough.... Having the best general ISK-making activity in high-sec out-competing ratting and mining in 0.0 is bad for the game.....
I ran 2 L4 missions in high-sec earlier today. Took me about 50 minutes with looting (same character in salvage destroyer). Earnings around 11k LP, 15m ISK, loot/salvage worth 10-20m ISK.....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kazuma Saruwatari
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:20:00 -
[32]
oh god no. Its hard enough for some casual gamers like me to eek out ISK from missions to make ends meet, and now reprocessing modules is getting a nerf?
Perfect work CCP, nerf something that isnt broken. -
Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online |
Lowanaera
Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:25:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Lowanaera on 04/09/2007 20:26:58
Originally by: Judge Ment
Originally by: Lowanaera Uh, only mission runners with no connection skills and poor missile/gunnery skills loot. I easily make 30m/hour from bounties/LP alone, 40m if I get a good streak of missions. That's with entirely T2 fit.
LOL: better do your math again!
My math is quite accurate. L4 Q20 agents in a 0.1 system, III in both appropriate connection skills, plowing through Amarr missions in a gank-fitted Abaddon with an alt in a tank-fitted Abaddon. 30m an hour no problem.
Similar things can be done with solo faction-fitted ships and high-sec agents. Looting simply isn't profitable if you're able to quickly do missions and accumulate large amounts of LP.
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Howling Jinn
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:37:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Iyanah so empire mission runners get their MASSIVE incomes reigned in a little to be more comparable with people who aren't as big a bunch of carebears, and thus making the move into lowsec and 0.0 a little more appealing to some?
boo frikkin hoo. i rat in 0.0 as my primary income, and frankly i don't see this nerf as such a big deal. so i'll get less trit from refining all the junk i accumulate? meh. i still accumulate enough to build all the t1 stuff i ever need and still have some left over to sell, not to mention the salvage which is always nice to have.
mission runners get LP and they get the rewards, not to mention more bounties in any given time than a ratter due to the higher concentration of less powerful rats in a mission.
1. you do know that mission rats have far less bounty? 2. you do know that 1 out of 3 npc's drop loot? 3. you do know that mission rats yield less salvage? 4. you do know that mining in 0.0 you can make 70m pr hour? 5. you do know that missions are way harder than any spawn you can find in 0.0? 6. if you cant make more isk pr hour than a high sec mission runner you are doing something very wrong. tripple 1.85 spawns are easy as pie. you do live in a region where there is alot very low true security. where commanders spawn all the time. not too mention hauler spawns dropping up to 100m trit.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:49:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lowanaera Edited by: Lowanaera on 04/09/2007 20:26:58
Originally by: Judge Ment
Originally by: Lowanaera Uh, only mission runners with no connection skills and poor missile/gunnery skills loot. I easily make 30m/hour from bounties/LP alone, 40m if I get a good streak of missions. That's with entirely T2 fit.
LOL: better do your math again!
My math is quite accurate. L4 Q20 agents in a 0.1 system, III in both appropriate connection skills, plowing through Amarr missions in a gank-fitted Abaddon with an alt in a tank-fitted Abaddon. 30m an hour no problem.
Similar things can be done with solo faction-fitted ships and high-sec agents. Looting simply isn't profitable if you're able to quickly do missions and accumulate large amounts of LP.
2 characters, so it is 15 millionw/hour per character, not 30 million hour with one character.
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Amateratsu
Caldari Terra Incognita Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.04 21:36:00 -
[36]
I thought they were only nerfing the specific modules used for compressing mins? not all modules in the game?
least thats how i read the dev blog....
think i will read it again:)
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Eno Ditziwt
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:05:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Howling Jinn
Originally by: Iyanah so empire mission runners get their MASSIVE incomes reigned in a little to be more comparable with people who aren't as big a bunch of carebears, and thus making the move into lowsec and 0.0 a little more appealing to some?
boo frikkin hoo. i rat in 0.0 as my primary income, and frankly i don't see this nerf as such a big deal. so i'll get less trit from refining all the junk i accumulate? meh. i still accumulate enough to build all the t1 stuff i ever need and still have some left over to sell, not to mention the salvage which is always nice to have.
mission runners get LP and they get the rewards, not to mention more bounties in any given time than a ratter due to the higher concentration of less powerful rats in a mission.
1. you do know that mission rats have far less bounty? *2. you do know that 1 out of 3 npc's drop loot? 3. you do know that mission rats yield less salvage? 4. you do know that mining in 0.0 you can make 70m pr hour? 5. you do know that missions are way harder than any spawn you can find in 0.0? 6. if you cant make more isk pr hour than a high sec mission runner you are doing something very wrong. tripple 1.85 spawns are easy as pie. you do live in a region where there is alot very low true security. where commanders spawn all the time. not too mention hauler spawns dropping up to 100m trit.
*Except Mordus, Drones, and Generic NPCs which have a drop rate pretty dammed close to 100%
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Eralus Edited by: Eralus on 28/08/2007 20:20:16 CCP is being stupid, because this isn't even going to work.
Before:
Mine 1 billion in minerals. Manufacture it into a module. Transport module toe Empire. Recycle module. Sell one billion in minerals.
After (mineral prices have gone up):
Mine 1.25 billion in minerals. Manufacture it into a module. Transport module to Empire. Recycle module. Sell one billion in minerals.
Same damned difference.
i thought it was the other way around, people were using this "compression" to move low ends out of empire?
because if its that way then get a rorqual and compress the ore and drop on an high sec gate and just industrial/freighter out of lowsec back into high sec.
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Chenoa Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.04 22:36:00 -
[39]
Connection and all other soc skills are for noobs, real men won't waste any time on those useless timesink skills. |
Ticarus Hellbrandt
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Posted - 2007.09.04 23:21:00 -
[40]
dang 20% loss in profits of my scrap loot reprocessing trade
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The RepoMan
Caldari Red Horizon Inc Red Horizon
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Posted - 2007.09.04 23:28:00 -
[41]
durrr... no **** sherlock. Might as well say 'Your proposed change of shooting every player in the face will hurt pretty people'. Congratulations you've figured it out, they obviously have it in for pretty people. Game changes are there to help the game, not you, get over yourself.
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Rangkai
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Posted - 2007.09.04 23:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Del Narveux now be 'worth it' to sell them 20% below build cost.
This is an interesting point.. There isn't a lot of money in the t1 module market.. but some people do build these modules.. and it may be harder for them to compete
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.09.05 07:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Rangkai
Originally by: Del Narveux now be 'worth it' to sell them 20% below build cost.
This is an interesting point.. There isn't a lot of money in the t1 module market.. but some people do build these modules.. and it may be harder for them to compete
or a lot easier ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
Kastar
Memphis Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.05 07:51:00 -
[44]
Awesome idea. It'll be good for the miners again. -----------------------------------------------
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Falbala
Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia
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Posted - 2007.09.05 11:13:00 -
[45]
It's very good for mission runners and ratters! It's only bad for T1 module producers (generally newbies) because they can't say lets make 300 Expanded Cargohold I, if I don't sell them I can still reprocess them later and try something else. So ratters and mission runners get now the monopoly on T1 modules. Good job CCP.
Newbies have been taken out of researching, now they are taken out of producing.
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Selena 001
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Posted - 2007.09.05 11:37:00 -
[46]
So...
Will the mission runners start running to miners for their minerals, or just run 25% more missions to get what they need?
I think we all know the answer to that.
Look at it for what it is. Its a change to stop the exploitation of something by someone. I dont pretend to understand it. Stop trying to throw market dynamics at it to make it seem like a boost / nerf. ___________
NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!! |
Segge Bolled
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.09.05 11:54:00 -
[47]
(While I'm sure this has already been covered, I still wish to express my own contempt.)
Originally by: vanBuskirk ... as a secondary (or tertiary) source of income? Level 4 will be particularly hard hit, as BS guns are quite common drops and have a lot of minerals in them - certainly way over the limit proposed for full reprocess.
Just wait for the database to fill up with market sell orders for junk loot, and also with people who keep hangars full of rubbish because they are unwilling to waste the value in these items.
1) Yes, secondary or tertiary source of income ...
2) Yes, I'm sure they'll be "unwilling to waste the value" of the modules when they're already refining them down anyway ...
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vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.05 13:29:00 -
[48]
Hmmm... "secondary or tertiary" may have been a poor choice of words. Maybe it should have been "less obvious or least obvious".
The most obvious income from a mission is the reward and bonus (if you can manage to get the latter). The second most obvious is the mission rat bounties - which sometimes doesn't apply, as in fighting drones or enemy Navy ships. The third most is loot and salvage.
Loot and salvage - well, salvage takes ages to get for one thing, especially with "generic" rats. OK, you can dump the metal scraps, but you've spent time getting them. Loot - well, t1 basic and low-end named are the most common. Low-end named loot is often barely worth putting on sale, and very often doesn't refine into much in the way of minerals. Basic tech 1 stuff is where some of the money currently is.
Typically, the mission reward is the smallest part of the income from missions, followed by bounties (or selling tags) and finally loot and salvage - in fact, on average, the value of the loot is probably about the same as the bounties. So a 20% reduction in the value of the loot translates to a 10% drop in income, roughly. Which is significant.
I stand by what I said earlier. The refining nerf will drop the price on the market of tech 1 rat-droppable loot to 20% less than build cost, because that's what the stuff will be worth. (In fact, it will probably be lower than that - because stuff is often on sale for less than build cost already, from runners who just want to get rid of it fast.) So making anything for sale at a profit, that happens to be sold by rats, will become impossible. This is already so for a lot of items - for example, I have a complete set of tech 1 afterburner and MWD researched BPOs in a can in my hangar, gathering dust - simply because you can't make money on making them.
My opinion? If CCP insist on nerfing compression, then along with it they will have to get rid of tech 1 junk loot from at least missions and maybe belt rats, and increase the drop rate of the good stuff to compensate. It would also be useful to know in advance whether wrecks are worth salvaging or not; there are more annoying things than "your salvaging attempt was successful, but there was nothing to salvage", but not many - yet another pointless CCP timesink. And if the rat has neither salvage nor loot, then just plain don't create a wreck - which would help the lag problem as well.
---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2007.09.05 13:44:00 -
[49]
I am mission runner but still I think this nerf will not help in anything because IT IS TO WEAK. No equipment should be capable of "compressing" minerals. If it have volume of 100m3 that you should not be able to refine it to more that 100m3 of minerals. I can live with decreased income, but I am not miner to sell minerals.
P.S. Maybe it will be better good also to leave only named stuff as loot because I did not know anyone except first-second day player who use many not named t1 equipment
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2007.09.05 13:55:00 -
[50]
Oh, boy boy boy are all of you people soooo wrong...
... 20% reduction in reprocessing yeild is going to hardly affect the market at all. It certainly won't raise the price of minerals. It's only going to bring in yet more macro miners/ratters/mission runners because the market will suddenly loose perhaps 10% of it's overall quantity, increasing macro miners by the same ammount to keep the quantities high.
And that new capital mining ship... won't be used for mining, that's for sure.
It's going to follow a carrier or BS around, parking 150+km from the belt as the ratter pops the rats, then tractor in the cans from 150km away completely safe and unmolested by either rats or pirates (new face enters local = cloak).
Yay for capital tractor beams...
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