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vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.28 09:33:00 -
[1]
The title says it. Some time in the future, the maximum reprocessing yield for modules is going to be 80%, to avoid the use of manufactured modules as mineral compressors.
OK so far. But what does this do to mission runners, who have the reprocessing of junk loot such as t1 armour hardeners and guns as a secondary (or tertiary) source of income? Level 4 will be particularly hard hit, as BS guns are quite common drops and have a lot of minerals in them - certainly way over the limit proposed for full reprocess.
Just wait for the database to fill up with market sell orders for junk loot, and also with people who keep hangars full of rubbish because they are unwilling to waste the value in these items.
This is yet another stealth nerf for mission running. It is also a nerf for tech 1 production; it's already hard enough to turn a profit on tech 1 modules that drop as loot - this change will make it impossible.
But, hey, what does CCP care about giving "carebears" (mission runners and industrialists) the shaft - again?
Never mind, two or three other space MMORPGs are coming soon.
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"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Cadiz
Caldari
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.08.28 09:36:00 -
[2]
It affects 0.0 ratters too; it's hardly just a "wahhh us poor lv4 runners" thing. I know tons of corps who run very extensive subsidized ship & module supply schemes primarily on refined scrap loot, and I'm sure they're not looking forward to a 20% cut in their supply.
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Director, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.28 09:37:00 -
[3]
It will make minerals a bit more expensive, which will animate more ppl to mine.
Isnt that bad. Missions still yield enough. Mining needed a small boost.
(i'am not a miner btw)
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2007.08.28 09:37:00 -
[4]
well tbh missions make too much anyway and ecourage solo play in a multiplayer game.
Im glad they are making the change.
and good louck with those other 2 or 3 space mmorpgs.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.08.28 09:46:00 -
[5]
1. level 4 mission runners make enough isk before looting.
2. This is a boost to carebears, just not the misison runners. Minerals prices will rise, so miners will be able to actually make decent profits. Finally, a profession in Empire that is viable other than missions.
3. It's not going in till Rev 3 anyway.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.28 09:52:00 -
[6]
The only bad thing is that it discurage mission looting while it incourage running missions only for the bounties, so increasing isk inflow.
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Iyanah
Minmatar
Mining Munitions and Mayhem
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:02:00 -
[7]
so empire mission runners get their MASSIVE incomes reigned in a little to be more comparable with people who aren't as big a bunch of carebears, and thus making the move into lowsec and 0.0 a little more appealing to some?
boo frikkin hoo. i rat in 0.0 as my primary income, and frankly i don't see this nerf as such a big deal. so i'll get less trit from refining all the junk i accumulate? meh. i still accumulate enough to build all the t1 stuff i ever need and still have some left over to sell, not to mention the salvage which is always nice to have.
mission runners get LP and they get the rewards, not to mention more bounties in any given time than a ratter due to the higher concentration of less powerful rats in a mission.
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Iy
please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read |
Rafein
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:06:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Iyanah
so empire mission runners get their MASSIVE incomes reigned in a little to be more comparable with people who aren't as big a bunch of carebears, and thus making the move into lowsec and 0.0 a little more appealing to some?
boo frikkin hoo. i rat in 0.0 as my primary income, and frankly i don't see this nerf as such a big deal. so i'll get less trit from refining all the junk i accumulate? meh. i still accumulate enough to build all the t1 stuff i ever need and still have some left over to sell, not to mention the salvage which is always nice to have.
mission runners get LP and they get the rewards, not to mention more bounties in any given time than a ratter due to the higher concentration of less powerful rats in a mission.
Actaully, no, mission runners are going to just not loot, so they can run mission faster, and actually make isk faster. Only times people will loot is if it's vs. a target that gives good salvage, like melted caps,
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:33:00 -
[9]
I hereby reiterate my disgust towards the lazy approach taken by CCP.
So, instead of eliminating compression (play around with mineral volumes and reprocessable item volumes), they just hit us with a flat 20% tax (no other way to put this) for every refine involving a module.
What's next, max 80% reprocessing on ships too ?
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Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
Malcanis
High4Life
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:41:00 -
[10]
Originally by: vanBuskirk
The title says it. Some time in the future, the maximum reprocessing yield for modules is going to be 80%, to avoid the use of manufactured modules as mineral compressors.
OK so far. But what does this do to mission runners, who have the reprocessing of junk loot such as t1 armour hardeners and guns as a secondary (or tertiary) source of income? Level 4 will be particularly hard hit, as BS guns are quite common drops and have a lot of minerals in them - certainly way over the limit proposed for full reprocess.
Just wait for the database to fill up with market sell orders for junk loot, and also with people who keep hangars full of rubbish because they are unwilling to waste the value in these items.
This is yet another stealth nerf for mission running. It is also a nerf for tech 1 production; it's already hard enough to turn a profit on tech 1 modules that drop as loot - this change will make it impossible.
But, hey, what does CCP care about giving "carebears" (mission runners and industrialists) the shaft - again?
Never mind, two or three other space MMORPGs are coming soon.
Well at the moment missioning and ratting are both far more lucrative than mining.
When I turned to L4 missions for income I was pretty shocked at how much minerals the rat loot produces.
I suppose CCP could start putting bounties on asteroids... 
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
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Ghaelsto Kakram
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:52:00 -
[11]
If it ain't broken nerf it!
By the way, who gets the other 20%.
The CONCORD retirement fund? |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:52:00 -
[12]
So the op thinks that the majority of people run missions to gain minerals.
Interesting theory. I wonder if the sun will still rise in the morning. I suspect it will.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.28 10:56:00 -
[13]
It would have been real painful back when we lived in rat space (now we live in the drone regions, so not a big deal). But our corp pretty much survived off of donated rat loot from 0.0 ratters, which we reprocessed. Wouldn't have been nice having our wallets hit by a 20% flat decrease.
Although I do think mineral compression does need fixing. If that really was the only way I'd support it...but theres got to be a better way than that.
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Shanur
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.08.28 11:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The only bad thing is that it discurage mission looting while it incourage running missions only for the bounties, so increasing isk inflow.
And that is only a temporary situation. More money inflow than is destroyed by existing money sinks results in inflation of prices, making the sale of items (aquired by mining, missioning, ratting or salvaging) more profitable, making missioning less profitable, resulting in fewer people doing it. It's self regulating because greed will push many to whatever activity is the most profitable.
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Steini OFSI
Gallente
Minigame
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Posted - 2007.08.28 11:18:00 -
[15]
I run missions mostly atm, and for myself I find it silly how much ammount of minerals I'm getting by refining loot, there is no need for me to contact or interact with miners to get minerals needed for battleship production once I've reached the LP points for a faction ship and gonna build me one.
Personally I think this is a fair change and a boost to miners that is much needed and they deserve the boost of trade they'll recieve.
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vanBuskirk
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.28 18:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gaven Blands
So the op thinks that the majority of people run missions to gain minerals.
Interesting theory. I wonder if the sun will still rise in the morning. I suspect it will.
Nope. That I didn't say. However, I am quite sure that all I said will happen. Reprocessing junk loot is a useful source of extra income, to say nothing of mineral supplies if you are an industrialist as well - but I suspect that people don't like losing stuff, so will hoard and/or sell the junk loot instead thus depressing module prices.
Actually, I would be in favour of much less - but higher quality - loot.
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"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2007.08.28 19:26:00 -
[17]
I dont see this as having a huge impact on L4s since honestly, while the loot minerals are nice the main income is from bounties and salvage. But it is going to *****T1 production even more than it already is since missioners will just collect gobs of modules and get in price wars since to them it will now be 'worth it' to sell them 20% below build cost. Good thing Im not an industrialist I guess, but GG CCP for nerfing yet another profession. 
_________________
[SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.28 19:31:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Iyanah
so empire mission runners get their MASSIVE incomes reigned in a little to be more comparable with people who aren't as big a bunch of carebears, and thus making the move into lowsec and 0.0 a little more appealing to some?
boo frikkin hoo. i rat in 0.0 as my primary income, and frankly i don't see this nerf as such a big deal. so i'll get less trit from refining all the junk i accumulate? meh. i still accumulate enough to build all the t1 stuff i ever need and still have some left over to sell, not to mention the salvage which is always nice to have.
mission runners get LP and they get the rewards, not to mention more bounties in any given time than a ratter due to the higher concentration of less powerful rats in a mission.
Try to do a reality check before posting.
In a good ratting system in 0.0 you can do 30-50 million hour ratting for the bountyes alone, and get loot worth hundred of millions ofthen enough. No mission will even approach that.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.28 19:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Akita T
I hereby reiterate my disgust towards the lazy approach taken by CCP.
So, instead of eliminating compression (play around with mineral volumes and reprocessable item volumes), they just hit us with a flat 20% tax (no other way to put this) for every refine involving a module.
What's next, max 80% reprocessing on ships too ?
If all the items where put at a max compression of 5:1 what cargo size we would need to move items around?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.28 19:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Shanur
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The only bad thing is that it discurage mission looting while it incourage running missions only for the bounties, so increasing isk inflow.
And that is only a temporary situation. More money inflow than is destroyed by existing money sinks results in inflation of prices, making the sale of items (aquired by mining, missioning, ratting or salvaging) more profitable, making missioning less profitable, resulting in fewer people doing it. It's self regulating because greed will push many to whatever activity is the most profitable.
The skill system in EVE make sure that it is not so simple.
If you are skilled in combat you go to mission or ratting to build cash. If you find you cash inflow is eaten by inflation you have 2 option: increase the pace of the activities you have already trained (and train to get even better at them) or change activity to one more lucrative.
But if you have low or no skill in building/mining /invention your return will be very low for months while you train the needed skills, so most of the people will instread train to get better at what they are already doing.
The number of people moving to other activities will be relatively small.
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Shira Vibeke
Caldari
Tri Force
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Posted - 2007.08.28 19:47:00 -
[21]
I'm not a miner but i have friends who are mining (or was mining will be better after mineral prices down).
Imho good change. Maybe miner will be now in better situation.
P.S. Upgrading mining yeld more and more will not resolve problem. Prices will go down more and miners will return to start point.
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2007.08.28 19:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Derovius Vaden on 28/08/2007 19:55:17
Originally by: vanBuskirk
...secondary (or tertiary) source of income...
OH NOES! THEY CAN'T TAKE MY SECONDARY INCOME, HOW CAN A MAN LIVE ON HALF MILLION ISK BOUNTIES ALONE!
I'm a miner, I have one income, and glad to have that. In the words of fat chef:
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Ker Ching
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Posted - 2007.08.28 20:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings
well tbh missions make too much anyway and ecourage solo play in a multiplayer game.
Yes, it's a multi-player game, but that doesn't mean it's compulsory to play in a group. Poker is a multi-player game too, but last time I played I was in a team of one with a personal aim.....just like I do in Eve.
Back on topic, yes, it's a mission nerf. Suck it up, roll with it, etc. It's just another one of many, and all the tears in the world won't change it.
Originally by: Sahwoolo Etoophie
Please stop posting threads. *click*
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Eralus
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Posted - 2007.08.28 20:13:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Eralus on 28/08/2007 20:20:16
CCP is being stupid, because this isn't even going to work.
Before:
Mine 1 billion in minerals. Manufacture it into a module. Transport module toe Empire. Recycle module. Sell one billion in minerals.
After (mineral prices have gone up):
Mine 1.25 billion in minerals. Manufacture it into a module. Transport module to Empire. Recycle module. Sell one billion in minerals.
Same damned difference.
What CCP fails to grasp is that a 20% reduction in yield from reprocessing just means it costs 20% of the shipment value to move it to empire. But if you cut out 20% of the production of minerals (20% lost on the way to empire, 20% lost on mission/rat loot), the prices just go up 20%, so you still get the same damned amount of isk for the same amount of work.
The REAL* problem is that CCP uses the same number for amount of minerals to manufacture an object and amount of minerals in the finished product that can be reprocessed back out. What needs to change is that each object needs a 'manufacturing waste' percentage. So if it takes 1,000m3 of minerals to manufacture an object, and the finished object is 1,000m3 big, then the waste percentage can be 0%. (Note, it doesn't have to be, as the finished product could be less dense and you could still have waste.) But if an object takes 500,000m3 of minerals to make, and the finished object is only 1,000m3 big, then the object gets a 98% manufacturing waste modifier - 98% of the materials you put in to manufacture the object get 'lost' in manufacturing.
Since only really expensive objects take massive volumes of minerals to manufacture (by definition), and you normally wouldn't thus reprocess them unless you're using them for transport, you can apply this modifier only to those objects and not **** up every other object in the game that can't be used for mineral compression.
Players are already willing to spend massive money researching blueprints, manufacturing the modules, and transporting them. Why does CCP think that if they just make it a bit more expensive that this is going to stop people from using mineral compression? Paying 20% for 430:1 compression is *STILL* worth it!
Don't change the reprocessing yield for ALL modules when it's only a few of them that are broken.
_____
Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.08.28 20:27:00 -
[25]
if mining was more fun then
wait 3 mins, drag to can, drag to hauler
repeat
then i really wouldn't mind doing it.
oh yes and does anyone actually do t1 production, other than people who are inventing/selling to inventors?
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Block Ukx
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Posted - 2007.09.04 19:16:00 -
[26]
Any idea on when is this nerf going to happen?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.09.04 19:18:00 -
[27]
in a few months or dozen weeks
the fact is that it will increase mineral prices across all of eve and this will be exponential as you get into deep 0.0
so there will be some dynamic prices but misson runners will be the least affected
____ __ ________
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devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried!
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CCP Morpheus was here 
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
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Buyerr
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Posted - 2007.09.04 19:27:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Buyerr on 04/09/2007 19:27:05
remove wracks from rats from highsec. greatly increase mission rewards.
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Lowanaera
Amarr
Paladin Imperium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.04 19:49:00 -
[29]
Uh, only mission runners with no connection skills and poor missile/gunnery skills loot. I easily make 30m/hour from bounties/LP alone, 40m if I get a good streak of missions. That's with entirely T2 fit.
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Judge Ment
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.04 20:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lowanaera
Uh, only mission runners with no connection skills and poor missile/gunnery skills loot. I easily make 30m/hour from bounties/LP alone, 40m if I get a good streak of missions. That's with entirely T2 fit.
LOL: better do your math again!
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