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Lallante
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Posted - 2004.02.08 15:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lallante on 08/02/2004 16:11:15
First of all the stats:
GBA I:
+ 2 To gravametric strength
GBA II:
+4 to gravimetric strength
At first it seems like a great improvement. THINK AGAIN.
This is useful to either the scorp or the raven BSs:
Scorp, normal strength: 16
required jamming:
4 Multispecs or 3 caldari jammers
---with GBA I: 18
required jamming:
5 Multispecs OR 3 caldari jammers
---with GBA II: 20
required jamming
5 Multispecs OR 4 caldari jammers
Raven normal strength: 14
required jamming:
4 Multispecs or 3 caldari jammers
---with GBA I: 16
required jamming:
4 Multispecs OR 3 caldari jammers
---with GBA II: 18
required jamming:
5 Multispecs OR 3 caldari jammers
So: as you can see, Whether you have a scorp OR a raven (and its definately not worth putting ECCM on a cruiser or frigate), having a GBA II will give you marginal advantage over a GBA I, and only if they have the wrong kind of jammers: but at greatly increased Cost(several million!) and CPU/Power.
So: shouldnt the difference be a bit more pronounced
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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KIATolon
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Posted - 2004.02.08 16:08:00 -
[2]
GBA I = +2 grav not +3
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.02.08 16:39:00 -
[3]
1 GBA II on a raven makes you unjammable to 4 multispecs, the far most common ECM setup (unless you know your enemy).
1 GBA I doesn't, you would need 2.
1 GBA II on a scorpion makes you unjammable to 3 spatials, which however isn't that good, since most people use 4 racial jammers to be sure. Still not useless, though.
Besides, if Tech 2 backup arrays gets better, what will happen to tech 3? +8 maybe? 
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.08 16:54:00 -
[4]
Edited by: j0sephine on 08/02/2004 16:57:26
"So: as you can see, Whether you have a scorp OR a raven (and its definately not worth putting ECCM on a cruiser or frigate), having a GBA II will give you marginal advantage over a GBA I, and only if they have the wrong kind of jammers: but at greatly increased Cost(several million!) and CPU/Power."
... The cost is 'greatly increased' because people producing the modules are trying to make money on the early adopters so they charge higher markup.
It's not really a reason to demand better module stats, though. When the prices eventually come down, will you ask to have the module stats lowered accordingly? ;s
And i'd think the module essentially replacing 2 tech.1 arrays is pretty good thing, especially with so few low slots Caldari have. (which btw makes devs' statements how Caldari are supposed to be ECCM kings a riot, but that's another story :/
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Lord Azraiel
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Posted - 2004.02.08 17:25:00 -
[5]
there are also mid slot eccm modules 
"I'm comin' for ya, and Hell's comin' with me!" |
Cirle
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Posted - 2004.02.08 19:29:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
... especially with so few low slots Caldari have. (which btw makes devs' statements how Caldari are supposed to be ECCM kings a riot, but that's another story :/
Was there ever an explanation of why the warp core stabilisers got shifted from mid slot to low slot? I can think of a few, most feel too... cynical...
Cirle |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.08 20:00:00 -
[7]
er... put 2 on?
c'mon people, get your thinking hats on.
.
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Bjorn Nilfheim
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Posted - 2004.02.08 22:26:00 -
[8]
Quote:
er... put 2 on?
c'mon people, get your thinking hats on.
ssshhh drunk, dont tell them!
Admiral of the Forsaken Fleets
Pillar of the Fallen Emperor |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.08 22:43:00 -
[9]
Quote:
er... put 2 on?
c'mon people, get your thinking hats on.
Staggering isnt it? 
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Faramir
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Posted - 2004.02.08 23:20:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Faramir on 08/02/2004 23:20:42
Lallante is not particularly known for her intelligence....
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Majin Buu
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Posted - 2004.02.09 06:26:00 -
[11]
oh dear thats the second cat thats been let out of the bag in this thread 
anyone got a free pointer to making millions of isk while staying docked in a station?
BoB KillBoard |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.02.09 08:51:00 -
[12]
Lallante, you keep saying 3 spatials will jam 18 when it will not, you need at least 1 more jamming strength than the person has sensors.
so 1 GBA II on a raven is pretty sweet.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.09 09:37:00 -
[13]
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 09/02/2004 09:38:31
Quote:
anyone got a free pointer to making millions of isk while staying docked in a station?
sell everything you own. simple.
It must be my week for easy advice..
[e:t]
.
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Qual
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Posted - 2004.02.09 10:13:00 -
[14]
Quote:
anyone got a free pointer to making millions of isk while staying docked in a station?
Sell ME:1000 battelship bpc's...
Head of Xanadu Elite Ships Department |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2004.02.09 11:04:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Lallante, you keep saying 3 spatials will jam 18 when it will not, you need at least 1 more jamming strength than the person has sensors.
so 1 GBA II on a raven is pretty sweet.
Ever tried targeting stuff with 0 sensor strength?
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.02.09 11:10:00 -
[16]
JarJar is right, you only need to match their sensor strength with your ECM's to jam them.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.09 11:20:00 -
[17]
There's nothing quite like a message appearing on your screen saying someone has started to target jam you.
I like to give them a short second of excitement before I jam them right back and open fire.
2 GBA II's and an ECCM Projector 1 are fun 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.02.09 12:15:00 -
[18]
All in all techlevel 2 will make ECM useless. Backuparray II +4(100% boost). Jammers do -9 (50% boost) --> ECM worthless now (or soon).
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Archemedes
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Posted - 2004.02.09 13:44:00 -
[19]
Not worthless, just not as common. ECM will require a dedicated ECM ship with a partner... the jammer ship will jam and that's ALL, while the other ship webs, scrambles, and does most of the shooting (5 Multispec IIs won't leave much cap for weapons). Remember, most people won't run more than 2 ECCM modules, so 5 multispec 2s (4 vs many ships) or 4 racial 2s will still do the job. And if they have NO ECCM (many people don't), 3 multi 2s will work.
If they have HEAVY defense against ECM, then no, you won't jam them at all. But so what? Heavy ECCM means less normal defense or firepower. A battleship full-rigged for tanking can sit there and laugh at a Raven or Tempest until it runs out of ammo... but the tank will do lousy damage. So why should ECM be unblockable if other attacks aren't, provided the ECCM ship is set up ONLY for ECCM?
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Moah
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Posted - 2004.02.09 13:50:00 -
[20]
Wait for the Med Slots ECCM with +6... 
Fancy. |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.09 13:58:00 -
[21]
Quote:
All in all techlevel 2 will make ECM useless. Backuparray II +4(100% boost). Jammers do -9 (50% boost) --> ECM worthless now (or soon).
Dude, they're not just gonna improve the 'pitchers' tools. the 'catcher' will get the same improvements to bring it back to the same balance it is at currently.
think. type. delete. *really* think. type. submit.
.
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Steini OFSI
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Posted - 2004.02.09 14:14:00 -
[22]
People are to quick to jump on their feets without any rational thinking.
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TomB
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Posted - 2004.02.09 14:18:00 -
[23]
EW changes upcoming, been planned for long time. Target jamming system will be changed, I will dev blog it before coding starts of course.
So you wanted to test out some boosters? |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.09 14:44:00 -
[24]
Hi-slot only and ranged?
Please.
Used to hate the idea of hi-slot EW but the idea appeals to me now.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.02.09 14:47:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Dude, they're not just gonna improve the 'pitchers' tools. the 'catcher' will get the same improvements to bring it back to the same balance it is at currently.
Dude at the moment the techlevel II caldary ship jammers do -9 gravimetric on tranquillity. The backup arrays do +4. 50% boost vs 100% boost. As Tomb wrote - they will fix it. But i see 1 problem: if they fix the ECMs to do -12/-4/-4/-4 instead of -9/-2/-2/-2 then a full fitted scorpion could jam 3-4 BS if they don¦t use backup arrays.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.09 17:10:00 -
[26]
Edited by: j0sephine on 09/02/2004 17:30:43
"All in all techlevel 2 will make ECM useless. Backuparray II +4(100% boost). Jammers do -9 (50% boost) --> ECM worthless now (or soon)."
... Actually do some math before you complain.
with the tech.1 equipment, you can use 2 middle slot ECCM arrays to break through 3 race-specific ECM on typical ship: (typical i.e. with base strenght of 14)
20 > 18
... with tech.2 jammers, 2 middle slot ECCM won't suffice anymore against 3 jammers:
26 < 27
the only ship which will punch through it with 2 arrays is Scorpion.
And the same versus low slot ECCM:
tech.1, you need 3 low slot modules:
20 > 18
with tech.2, you need 4 low slot modules:
26 < 27, need 4th array to get it up to 30
If anything, it's the ECCM that becomes weaker... (though on the other hand ECCM gets more effective against the multispectrals)
(it's because the ECM gets raw change of -3 per module, while all ECCM gets +2 per module... which matters much more than percentage)
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.02.09 21:01:00 -
[27]
Quote:
... Actually do some math before you complain.
Same advice to u!
Backup arry I +2
Backup array II +4
100% boost
Spacial destablilizer I -6/-2/-2/-2
Spacial destabeliszer II -9/-2/-2/-2
50% boost/no boost/no boost/no boost
==>ECM worthless, cause it¦s much harder to jam ships soon. it will be russian roulette. If enemys don¦t have ECCM or backup arrays it will work fine - u might be able to jam several BS. If they have ECCM - good night.
A good jammer scorpion will have 4 backup arrays II + 1 ECCM ==> 38 gravimetric.
A good jammer scorpion might have 1 level II item of each sort: radar/ladar/gravi/magneto and 2 multi spectral II ==> -33
Let¦s wait for Tomb to to announce how they change it...it might be good to let all values like they are and make level I jammers work on 40 km and lev II on 60 km, cause atm it¦s well balanced.
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Bjorn Nilfheim
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Posted - 2004.02.09 21:20:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Quote:
... Actually do some math before you complain.
Same advice to u!
Backup arry I +2
Backup array II +4
100% boost
Spacial destablilizer I -6/-2/-2/-2
Spacial destabeliszer II -9/-2/-2/-2
50% boost/no boost/no boost/no boost
==>ECM worthless, cause it¦s much harder to jam ships soon. it will be russian roulette. If enemys don¦t have ECCM or backup arrays it will work fine - u might be able to jam several BS. If they have ECCM - good night.
A good jammer scorpion will have 4 backup arrays II + 1 ECCM ==> 38 gravimetric.
A good jammer scorpion might have 1 level II item of each sort: radar/ladar/gravi/magneto and 2 multi spectral II ==> -33
Let¦s wait for Tomb to to announce how they change it...it might be good to let all values like they are and make level I jammers work on 40 km and lev II on 60 km, cause atm it¦s well balanced.
if you were to use 4 lowslot Is and a midslot on a scorp,you would have 27. 1 or each race + 2 multispec I is 20. same situation, different numbers. the scorp is still not going to be jammed. yet ECM is not currently worthless. remember, ECM has to go after the base sensor strenght of the ship, which does not change, in addition to the backup arrays, which have changed.
Admiral of the Forsaken Fleets
Pillar of the Fallen Emperor |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.10 02:33:00 -
[29]
Edited by: j0sephine on 10/02/2004 02:39:23
"Same advice to u!
(..)
==>ECM worthless, cause it¦s much harder to jam ships soon. it will be russian roulette. If enemys don¦t have ECCM or backup arrays it will work fine - u might be able to jam several BS. If they have ECCM - good night."
... Lifewire, read my whole post, please.
Especially that part which shows exactly, in numbers, how with tech.2 equipment one will need more ECCM modules to defend themselves from the tech.2 ECM.
Your argument with 'good jammer scorpion' is to be honest worthless. That's one, special battleship which was pretty much always able to keep itself from being jammed. Am talking about all other battleships which will have more difficult time protecting themselves. You know -- the Armageddon, Apocalypse, Dominix, Megathron, Typhoon, Tempest and Raven. All of them.
oh, as for tis part:
"Backup arry I +2
Backup array II +4
100% boost
Spacial destablilizer I -6/-2/-2/-2
Spacial destabeliszer II -9/-2/-2/-2
50% boost/no boost/no boost/no boost"
Backup array I > II: +2 change
Spatial destabilizer I > II: -3 change.
tech.2 ECM gains 50% increase in effectivity over tech.2 ECCM.
There's lies, big lies, and statistics.
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