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Koryvarn Amarr Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:57:00 - [31] Yeah, if AF's were just that bit faster, they would be more useful. They need to be able to outrun non nano cruisers when both targets are MWD'ing and they just cannnot. Ideally, a speed of around 2000 kms when MWD'ing, rather than than the 1k and a bit it is now.
Kytus Bos	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:58:00 - [32] Originally by: Koryvarn Ideally, a speed of around 2000 kms vvvvvrrrrrrrroooOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:14:00 - [33] Deimos's, Zealots, Vagabonds, And Sacriledges will hit 2000 m/s with a tech 2 MWD and no speed mod. No reason all the AFs shouldnt also. That or a role bonus to make them as fast as they are now, but with afterburners.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 29/08/2007 02:17:53 So? I've ransomed a Hurricane with my Jaguar. Nearly killed a Myrm two days ago in a Rifter (capped out as he had only two drones left, must get cap skills to V). A couple of days ago me and a corpmate (Hurricane and Myrm) killed a Mega at a gate with sentry gun aggro, of all things. Etc, etc... it doesn't mean that any of these things should happened if their pilots have had the SP and the brains to actually fit and fly their ships. Theres tons of pilots who fit (and fly) their ships like complete muppets. It doesn't really mean anything. Don't get me wrong - i absolutely love flying the little buggers. It's just that unfortunately they're not very ISK-efficent, and killing sensibly fit cruisers in them is extremely unlikely. Especially in any close-range fit. Good stuff mate...can you give some details? It's cool to hear the stories? - Michael Schumacher won many a formula one race. Alot of the time he didn't win because he had a better car...he won because HE WAS A BETTER DRIVER and because he used SUPERIOR TACTICS.
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.08.29 17:28:00 - [35] Personally I'd like to see AF's become pocket cruisers and able to put up a fight while webbed. Also why is it that a gank enyo is out damaged by a gank ishkur Switch the wolf and jag bonuses Give the wolf MORE alpha Retribution needs a second mid Roden ship yards in general need their design theory reconfigured Local Thread 107-b
Ahk'Mehd Gallente Wraith Fleet	Posted - 2007.08.29 17:30:00 - [36] hands off my ishkur!! would be hot if they added a drone bonus for dmg :):)
Stuart Price Caldari Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.08.29 17:35:00 - [37] Assault Frigates perform beautifully if you know how to fit them and your skills match. I adore the Harpy and I've used it to devastating effect on more than one occasion. Here's what I have done with a Harpy: 1. Killed a Brutix. His t2 drones got popped in short order, even when orbiting me. Then his blasters couldn't hit once I got in close and kept transversal up. Granted, he wasn't fitted to kill frigs (no web, although he did pack a scram, no nos or neuts) and I did have a couple of inties tackling but the point remains valid. 2. Just after the RMR patch, took on a Megathron and two inties at a gate. Killed one inty, put the other into hull with two volleys (he then warped off) and then put the mega into hull before he finally ground me down. Yes the BS was also set up to kill bigger fish but still no mean feat for a frig. Those are the best I've done in it. I'm not a great pvp'er (yet, I hope to get better ) but it's a great little ship. Hell, the fact it can lock very fast and snipe out to 80km+ with Spike makes it useful in my book. Fit a web and nothing is safe from your 125's. I tend to use mine as a hard-hitter or inty-killer in frig-gangs mostly. The other AF's have their roles as well. The Ishkur is an excellent little ship too, purely since it can tank and let the drones do the work. It can operate well against similar sized ships, eat other AF's handily and add firepower against bigger ships. "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"
William Alex Viscosity	Posted - 2007.08.29 19:55:00 - [38] i agree... i think that the raven should have an extra high slot! Please give us a 1 depth skill queue CCP.
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.29 20:56:00 - [39] I've never seen an assault frigate do something that couldn't be done better, more cheaply, and for less SP by a cruiser except for PVE. I'm quite surprised by how clueless a lot of these people are. HURF DURF I like AFs therefor they BEST. anecdotal evidence, a definition for the uninformed.
Katrina Coreli The Scope	Posted - 2007.08.29 21:43:00 - [40] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 29/08/2007 01:26:18 OP is talking nonsense. I was mission ganked by 3 ships today while flying my 7 L Ion blaster hyperion w/ 1 L NOS. I took down a Gallente navy vexor at very close range after he took out my drones, the arazu had me damped massively, but i managed to get to target an ishkur. The iskur could not even be hit despite being webbed, NOSsed, target painted, and within optimal. He held me for about 3 or 4 minutes until I ran out of cap charges, and eventuly got the killing blow. (FYI - I'd avoided the 2 cruisers earlier and went back with PVP fit to kill them, but Iskur won the fight for them) So....useless? Nope....VERY useful when used well. I was the ishkur in the fight and i have to agree with vyctor (However it was only a Celstis ;)) This fight was hours after the NOS nerf and i have to report that the ishkur preformed admirably. My cap refused to give out completely (I only had my web scram and blasters on him) and i was practacally un hittable. You get a nicely sized drone bay for a frigate, dps isnt anything to write home about but those drones are great for taking down enemy drones and once thats done an ishkur could easily take down a BS in a mission given time. Everyone whines about the suposed "missing bonus" on AFs as oposed to other tech 2 ships but, though annother bonus would always be nice :), it handles fine. In my experience AFs make fantastic heavy tacklers. All that could be improved it prehaps a small speed boost but apart from that id say ishkurs are great ships.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.29 22:21:00 - [41] I give up. It seems that most of you have never gotten into a real PvP fight and thus don't realize just how useless assault frigates are. If you doubt it, I will duel you in my t1 fitted cruiser and destroy you every time. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Ron Lycan	Posted - 2007.08.29 22:25:00 - [42] Ishkur...Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur.... Ishkur is Fine really. Wolf and Jaguar are pretty good AF's. Retri is nice for that PvE and can do some damage if you really wanted to take it into PvP but the other AF's (maybe exception now for vengeance) need some reworking and a little tweaking. Can't go as fast as T1 Cruiser. Needs a small speed boost and probably mass reduction. 4th Bonus OFCOURSE. Those T2 Armor bonus should be built in, not part of the skill bonus.
Arkios Odymei D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.29 22:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Ismern I give up. It seems that most of you have never gotten into a real PvP fight and thus don't realize just how useless assault frigates are. If you doubt it, I will duel you in my t1 fitted cruiser and destroy you every time. Im sorry not many agrees with you that AF's are useless. Most of us are saying that they could use a little more "oomph" but they do not need a radical overhaul like it appears you want. A little less mass/sig radius, and maybe a fourth bonus and they will be perfect for what they are suposed to do, I think... ------------------------------------------------------------------
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.08.29 22:49:00 - [44] Originally by: Ismern I don't know what you guys are using it for? The only thing I ever found an Ishkur useful for was running L1/L2 kill missions really quickly. As far as PvP goes, all AFs are terrible and will die to just about anything except a basic T1 frigate or T1 destroyer horribly (this includes getting maimed by interceptors). negative - ishkur, fitted properly (eg, not by these 4 nos noobs these days) - is a ceptor killing machine. There is basically not chance of a ceptor breaking its tank... but im putting a lot of weight on the shoulders of an AF pilot to be 'good'.
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders Praesidium Libertatis	Posted - 2007.08.29 22:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Ron Lycan Ishkur...Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur....Ishkur.... Ishkur is Fine really. Wolf and Jaguar are pretty good AF's. Retri is nice for that PvE and can do some damage if you really wanted to take it into PvP but the other AF's (maybe exception now for vengeance) need some reworking and a little tweaking. Can't go as fast as T1 Cruiser. Needs a small speed boost and probably mass reduction. 4th Bonus OFCOURSE. Those T2 Armor bonus should be built in, not part of the skill bonus. I'd sign that.
Volir Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.08.29 23:03:00 - [46] Originally by: Katrina Coreli I was the ishkur in the fight and i have to agree with vyctor (However it was only a Celstis ;)) This fight was hours after the NOS nerf and i have to report that the ishkur preformed admirably. My cap refused to give out completely (I only had my web scram and blasters on him) and i was practacally un hittable. You get a nicely sized drone bay for a frigate, dps isnt anything to write home about but those drones are great for taking down enemy drones and once thats done an ishkur could easily take down a BS in a mission given time. Everyone whines about the suposed "missing bonus" on AFs as oposed to other tech 2 ships but, though annother bonus would always be nice :), it handles fine. In my experience AFs make fantastic heavy tacklers. All that could be improved it prehaps a small speed boost but apart from that id say ishkurs are great ships. This one time I took an AF into a small gang fight, wasn't killed and got on a few killmails. Therefor, AFs are awesome. Plus, they're super awesome at killing interceptors, I mean, battlecruisers, HACs, destroyers, most cruisers, and T2 fit frigates are better at it, but AFs are great!
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.29 23:03:00 - [47] Edited by: Ismern on 29/08/2007 23:03:28 Originally by: Maeltstome negative - ishkur, fitted properly (eg, not by these 4 nos noobs these days) - is a ceptor killing machine. There is basically not chance of a ceptor breaking its tank... but im putting a lot of weight on the shoulders of an AF pilot to be 'good'. Ok, apparently you misinterpreted what I said. Interceptors don't kill ships outside of T1 frigates, haulers, and barges. However, you will NOT be killing most interceptors in any assault frigate (maybe the Harpy) because all of those interceptors will just outrun you, your guns, and your drones. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Drazin DawnTreader The Elear	Posted - 2007.08.29 23:08:00 - [48] Originally by: Katrina Coreli Originally by: Vyktor Abyss You get a nicely sized drone bay for a frigate, dps isnt anything to write home about but those drones are great for taking down enemy drones and once thats done an ishkur could easily take down a BS in a mission given time. Umm... isnt the Ishkur the Highest DPS Frigate there is?
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.08.29 23:20:00 - [49] Originally by: wettestwillie I agree. I think all creodron ships should be dedicated for drones. Leave the guns for the Enyo! i like the idea of a frig sized dronebaot but still what shall we do withthe highs on an ishkur if it would be changed like that? Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2007.08.30 00:40:00 - [50] Anyone who underestimates an AF, will eventually die by one, or two, or three. The Ishkur is arguably, one of the better AFs for either solo or small gang skirmishes. If you think no one flies AFs, well, I was flying one just a day or two ago, an Ishkur even. I also used it in a very small 0.0 gate camp, and got a kill or two with it. Once in a while, I see a post similar to this on the forums. And as if by coincedence, when I log in, I witness a most contrary event. People do fly Assault Frigates, they do have a use, all of them, and they shouldn't be underestimated.
Volir Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.08.30 02:05:00 - [51] Originally by: CherniyVolk Anyone who underestimates an AF, will eventually die by one, or two, or three. The Ishkur is arguably, one of the better AFs for either solo or small gang skirmishes. If you think no one flies AFs, well, I was flying one just a day or two ago, an Ishkur even. I also used it in a very small 0.0 gate camp, and got a kill or two with it. Once in a while, I see a post similar to this on the forums. And as if by coincedence, when I log in, I witness a most contrary event. People do fly Assault Frigates, they do have a use, all of them, and they shouldn't be underestimated. People constantly miss the point. AFs do not suck. Its just that everything they do can be done better by a cruiser. People fly AFs all the time because, lol T2 > T1. There is no role in Eve pvp where an assault ship is best suited. Can you even come up with a situation where an Assault frigate is best?
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2007.08.30 02:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Volir People constantly miss the point. AFs do not suck. Its just that everything they do can be done better by a cruiser. People fly AFs all the time because, lol T2 > T1. There is no role in Eve pvp where an assault ship is best suited. Can you even come up with a situation where an Assault frigate is best? Yes, I chose to use the Ishkur, for the agility of being able to move about 0.0 quickly and with enough firepower to pose a threat to many more ships than in an Interceptor. If I was going to get into a Cruiser, I would have either a Deimos or an Ishtar. If I wanted a Battlecruiser, then it'll be either an Astarte or an Eos... get the picture? The only T1 ships I fly are some faction ships and battleships. Secondly, if I were to seriously undock in a T1 cruiser, say a Thorax, it also has THREE rig slots that would probably get filled with something just to squeeze out some value at whatever task I'm going for. Making the T1 Cruiser far more expensive than a more agile and able T2 Frigate.
Lost Vagus	Posted - 2007.08.30 03:08:00 - [53] Originally by: Volir People constantly miss the point. AFs do not suck. Its just that everything they do can be done better by a cruiser. People fly AFs all the time because, lol T2 > T1. There is no role in Eve pvp where an assault ship is best suited. Can you even come up with a situation where an Assault frigate is best? tanking L4's when you cant find a shuttle?
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 03:25:00 - [54] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 30/08/2007 03:25:48 Originally by: Maeltstome negative - ishkur, fitted properly (eg, not by these 4 nos noobs these days) - is a ceptor killing machine. There is basically not chance of a ceptor breaking its tank... but im putting a lot of weight on the shoulders of an AF pilot to be 'good'. How do you kill a standard crow? (for the record, I've done it before and won - 1vs1 fight, Ishkur vs standard missile armed crow - it was only because he made a piloting error) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.08.30 03:59:00 - [55] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 30/08/2007 03:59:40 Originally by: Stuart Price Here's what I have done with a Harpy: 1. Killed a Brutix. His t2 drones got popped in short order, even when orbiting me. Then his blasters couldn't hit once I got in close and kept transversal up. Granted, he wasn't fitted by a total muppet (no web, although he did pack a scram, no nos or neuts) and I did have a couple of inties tackling but the point remains valid. I'd never, ever undock my Hurricane without a web. Typically Fleeting, and X5 is nearly as good for a small part of the cost. I ransomed that Hurricane with my Jaguar the same way - just orbited at 1km and held him in place. After his drones died, well, he really couldn't do anything. It just means there are pilots who are complete muppets at fitting ships. Quote: negative - ishkur, fitted properly (eg, not by these 4 nos noobs these days) - is a ceptor killing machine. There is basically not chance of a ceptor breaking its tank... but im putting a lot of weight on the shoulders of an AF pilot to be 'good'. Well, OK, but you can't really hold down a long range ceptor with it, and crows will just laugh at you. Any short range inty who comes into ishkur's webrange is asking to die, anyway. Quote: People constantly miss the point. AFs do not suck. Its just that everything they do can be done better by a cruiser. People fly AFs all the time because, lol T2 > T1. There is no role in Eve pvp where an assault ship is best suited. Can you even come up with a situation where an Assault frigate is best? True. People love flying frigs though, so AFs are preety much the natural choice for a frig lover. The gripe with them is that they're terribly ISK inefficent. Every serious AF pilots will know the fights he can win are very limited, and underestimating a pilot (like, expecting he didn't fit a web + MWD) can be an extremely costly error. Quote: Yes, I chose to use the Ishkur, for the agility of being able to move about 0.0 quickly and with enough firepower to pose a threat to many more ships than in an Interceptor. If I was going to get into a Cruiser, I would have either a Deimos or an Ishtar. If I wanted a Battlecruiser, then it'll be either an Astarte or an Eos... get the picture? The only T1 ships I fly are some faction ships and battleships. Secondly, if I were to seriously undock in a T1 cruiser, say a Thorax, it also has THREE rig slots that would probably get filled with something just to squeeze out some value at whatever task I'm going for. Making the T1 Cruiser far more expensive than a more agile and able T2 Frigate. Meep, T1 ships are for the most part more cost-efficent. Some HACs can be nano-ed, giving them nice survivability, so they offer something extra over T1 cruisers. Still, engaging a BC pilot in a close-range HAC could very well be a preety high financial drain on you. Anyway, Ishkur agility is NOT anything to write home about. I find it funny that a plated Rifter actually outpaces it with just an AB ;P Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.08.30 04:46:00 - [56] I'm sorry, Ismern, but I just have to ask. Have you ever been in 0.0? --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Akashyi Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.30 04:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Maeltstome Originally by: Ismern I don't know what you guys are using it for? The only thing I ever found an Ishkur useful for was running L1/L2 kill missions really quickly. As far as PvP goes, all AFs are terrible and will die to just about anything except a basic T1 frigate or T1 destroyer horribly (this includes getting maimed by interceptors). negative - ishkur, fitted properly (eg, not by these 4 nos noobs these days) - is a ceptor killing machine. There is basically not chance of a ceptor breaking its tank... but im putting a lot of weight on the shoulders of an AF pilot to be 'good'. Ceptor can break its tank, but the ishkur will do the same to the ceptor, quicker.
Janet Marshall Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.30 05:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Daelana Dont touch my ishkur! Agreed! the op is full of BS. the ishkur is incredible wit hthe proper skillz. I can solo some battlecruisers with it.. and the ocasional raven. its an amazing gang support ship also!
Karille Lordless	Posted - 2007.08.30 05:17:00 - [59] FFS don't touch the Ishkur! (unless you're giving it another bonus) I've killed all sorts of ships in it and the only thing that gave me any trouble was nos. I suspect my day has come. _________________________________________________________
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.30 05:46:00 - [60] Haha, very funny Cyan. Maybe next time you should actually read the corp/alliance sticker. I've been here a long time. I remember one time when I thought, maybe the Ishkur could be useful. So I tried flying one around a while, and while it has decent damage, it's too slow to be effective. I would hands down hop in a cruiser and solo against an Ishkur any day of the week. Not only will I destroy said Ishkur, but my setup will cost less than the hull. ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.

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