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5% Kinetic Missile Damage - It needs to go.

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The Anointed Caldari Evolutionary Transhumanist Apperception The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:27:00 - [1] For a long time now, this has been the one bonus that gets applied to every caldari ship out there and I have to add, its the one ship skill bonus' that I hate the most. With the Khanid MKII changes, adding missile ships to the amarr, none that I can see were given a bonus to a specific damage type, which made me wonder where the logic lies in the caldari bonus. (I really like the amarr changes, but this isnt the palce to discuss them) I would like to think other people look at it in the same way. I mean, for the cruiser skill, getting a 5% bonus to kinetic damage is imo a waste of a bonus, but for something like the recon skill giving the rook a 5% bonus the kinetic damage just sucks. Its always struck me as a strange fit for the ships it is applied to, and leave the entire race felling a bit dull. So my train of thought went along the lines of, bring it to the forums and the bright, helpful community will go about suggesting possible changes for the bonus and discussing the balancing effects of said changes. Im in the process of writing my list atm.
Angel Interceptor	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:37:00 - [2] Wrong, kestrel gets 10%!11 I pondered on this for a bit too, now, all same class missiles have the same range, different damage, so why not just use one missile type that gets buffed by the ship instead of having to find out what missile the target is weakest to (shield EM/Therm, armour explosive/kinetic, but then you have all the resistance mods etc)? Missile users don't have to vary range/damage, and I think this bonus is CCP's happy medium for the missiles. Though yeah, I can't imagine it's actually a very efficient bonus.
Ess Erbe State War Academy	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:38:00 - [3] If the Khanid ships gets a plain "damage" bonus, then all other missile ships should get it as well, or a rate of fire bonus like the Raven and Typhoon.
Larkonis Trassler Suicide Kings	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:40:00 - [4] Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 29/08/2007 11:40:22 /signed One of the things that really grips my poo... Great for ratting and mission running against Guristas, sod all use for anything else. It's like giving the Dominix a 10% bonus to thermal drone damage or Minmatar a 5% bonus to Nuclear ammo. Keep the racial damage bonus on things like stealth bombers but switch it to overal damage on the majority of normal Caldari ships (I'm looking at you Drake, Crow, Caracal, Cerberus and Nighthawk). ------------
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:46:00 - [5] Khanid ships get an all-encompassing bonus, but remember that it's only for short range missiles. Caldari get a damage bonus for kinetic missiles (not a bad damage type anyway) but it applies to all launcher variants. That's the reasoning behind the bonuses.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 29/08/2007 11:40:22 /signed One of the things that really grips my poo... Great for ratting and mission running against Guristas, sod all use for anything else. Can I have a RoF bonus to turret weapons on the geddon and damage bonus on turrets on the Abaddon? Instead of the RoF/Dam on Energy Weapons only? Its good for killing Sansha/Bloods, but sods for anything else. And fitting AC's will mean I lose a bonus, which is totally unfair.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:48:00 - [7] Lasers to EM/Therm only. Any laser damage bonus therfore is a bonus to em/therm. Hybrids only do thwerm/kin, therfore any hybrid damage bonus is a bonus to therm/kinetic. Projectiles can mix up their damage types, but ALL minnie ammo does some explosive, and minnie tech1 ammo has lower base damage than any other ammo type. T2 Projectile ammo is ALL explosive based. The Khanid ships get a damage bounus to HAM's/Rockets ONLY, not all launchers. You want an all damage bouns on Caldari ships in order to balance it would need to apply to Heavy's and standards only. And Kinetic is far from the worst damage type, Suits 80% of NPC's and given the choice most people will take Kinetic or Explosive in PVP, so whats to complain about? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:52:00 - [8] i support this idea IF it's only to long range missiles (so they get no bonus to torps HAM's or rockets) just like the Khanid only gets a bonus to HAM's and rockets and one day torps if amarr only get short range then caldari only get long range
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:56:00 - [9] Of course, you can also balance it the other way around, nerfing Khanid ships... give them a 5% to EM missile damage As for the Kestrel, no, it doesn't get a 10% bonus... it actually has a 5% to all missile damage bonus AND a lower-than-5% separate bonus to kinetic missiles. At L5 frig, Kessy has 25% to all missiles except kinetic 50%. If it had separate 5% bonuses, one to all missiles and then one just for kinetic, it would have gotten 25% to all others and +56.25% to kinetic damage... so in fact, kessie got the shaft badly. Didn't you notice Kestrel only has that missile damage "dual bonus" and nothing else ? All other ships get two bonuses per skill. Kestrel, Caracal and Drake should ALL have the exact same bonuses as the Raven, namely launcher RoF and missile velocity. Yes, Drake should lose the 5% shield resist bonus and get the range instead. Want a good tank, go with Ferox... want damage at range, go Drake. That's how tier 2 BCs were supposed to be, ganky not tanky. As for the NH, the other two bonuses should obviously be shield resists (so keep the BC skill bonuses like now, and tack in the velocity bonus on the CS skill) and either keep the precision bonus or change it to a flat 5% damage to ALL missiles bonus (or heck, for all I care, a SECOND RoF bonus). That, and increase its grid so it can actually fit T2 HAMs, MWD and the semblance of a tank without fiting mods. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Close Quarters Minmatar obnixe	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:56:00 - [10] kinetic dmg bonus pwns. Can do almost any mission and because of that bonus (for drake) never have to change missiles. leave it as is. Yes, It is True.
The Anointed Caldari Evolutionary Transhumanist Apperception The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:57:00 - [11] I think some people are missing the idea, the idea isnt that I want a 5% bonus to all damage types, the idea is that I think this bonus is redundant, and would prefer to see it changed to something entirely different like; Missile Velocity, Precision, Sheild HP etc.
Ess Erbe State War Academy	Posted - 2007.08.29 11:58:00 - [12] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Khanid ships get an all-encompassing bonus, but remember that it's only for short range missiles. When I looked up Sacrilege and Damnation ingame earlier today it said both HAM and HML.
The Anointed Caldari Evolutionary Transhumanist Apperception The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:01:00 - [13] Originally by: Ess Erbe Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Khanid ships get an all-encompassing bonus, but remember that it's only for short range missiles. When I looked up Sacrilege and Damnation ingame earlier today it said both HAM and HML. It was originally only HAM's, but they have a few drawbacks, so it was changed to Heavies as well, a change for the better imo.
Filipa Gomez Dark Destiny Inc. TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:27:00 - [14] I have thought of that as well and doesnt seems like a big advantage, so my suggestion is: Ships that already got ROF bonus to get a missile velocity bonus/missile flight time duration. ---
The Anointed Caldari Evolutionary Transhumanist Apperception The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:30:00 - [15] Updated original post with a few suggestions of my own for bonus changes. They are just suggestions to get people talking though.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:39:00 - [16] Originally by: Ess Erbe If the Khanid ships gets a plain "damage" bonus, then all other missile ships should get it as well, or a rate of fire bonus like the Raven and Typhoon. Ofc. Care to remove kin bonus and get HAM only bonus? :D
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:43:00 - [17] Originally by: The Anointed Originally by: Ess Erbe Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Khanid ships get an all-encompassing bonus, but remember that it's only for short range missiles. When I looked up Sacrilege and Damnation ingame earlier today it said both HAM and HML. It was originally only HAM's, but they have a few drawbacks, so it was changed to Heavies as well, a change for the better imo. You want to check it again. ROF bonus to all (like cerb) + damage bonus to one missile type (HAM) instead of one damage type to all missiles (cerb).
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:46:00 - [18] Don't each of the races emphasize a specific damage type, even when they use multiples? IE: Minmatar-Explosive, Amarr-EM, Gallente-Thermal and Caldari-Kinetic. And they also have an abundance of rats in their respective space that are weak to those damage types... respectively. Caldari just like Kinetic damage more than others.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:49:00 - [19] Aye, Sacrilege gets HAML damage and all launcher RoF, not ALL launcher damage, cos that would just be silly. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Filipa Gomez Dark Destiny Inc. TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.08.29 12:53:00 - [20] --- From your suggestions i would like to give opinion: T1 (From relevant ship class skill) Kestrel - 5% to Light/Rcoket Damage and a 5% ROF? ---> Missile flight time bonus Condor - ROF ---> Good idea Heron - No Idea ----> No idea also lol Caracal - Sheild HP, ROF? ---> ROF would make it ebil as the hac so make it sheild HP bonus Drake - 5% bonus to Heavy/HAM damage (Then give it the ability to use HAMS!) -----> Needs more range on the missiles or ROF bonus. T2 Nighthawk (Command Ships Skill Bonus) - Missile Velocity ----> Good idea or even more ROF cause compared with the other class of damage dealing command ships the dps on the nighthawk is very low so i suggest another ROF bonus. Flycatcher (Interdictors Skill Bonus) - No need to change, unless you change gal and min bonus as well. Rook (Recon Ships Skill Bonus) - ROF ---> jamming range bonus Cerberus (Crusier Skill Bonus) - Precision ---> Shield boost bonus Crow (Frigate Skill Bonus) - 5% Standard Missile/Rocket Damage Bonus ----> ROF bonus Hawk (Frigate Skill Bonus) - 5% Sheild HP ---> ROF bonus ---
The Anointed Caldari Evolutionary Transhumanist Apperception The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Deva Blackfire You want to check it again. ROF bonus to all (like cerb) + damage bonus to one missile type (HAM) instead of one damage type to all missiles (cerb). Yeah, my bad, although I would quite gladly trade one of our current ships for a HAM boat that was actually capable of using them, but as it is atm, Caldari are far too large and slow to use any sort of close range weapon properly.
Lydia Browm Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.29 13:47:00 - [22] No leave caldari alone they whine about other races being overpoweredd and theres being underpowered i fly caldari and its good so STFU? PLEASE JUST STOP THE WINAGE AND NERFAGE ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty...
Filipa Gomez Dark Destiny Inc. TALIONIS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:21:00 - [23] Your char is gallente so ur trying to sabotage :D and whatch the language...
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Filipa Gomez Your char is gallente so ur trying to sabotage :D and whatch the language... We ALL fly Caldari for PVE. B) Also, I'm Caldari but specialize in Amarr (laser boats, missiles don't have the "pew-pew" T_T). You can't make judgments regarding what people fly based off of their starting race. But yeah, they are trying to sabotage. I honestly think that if you want to trade in the kin damage bonus for a universal one, you ought to be restricted in terms of launcher type, however, like the Amarr are (but at least Caldari racial damage is good). To be honest, I'd prefer to leave it as is. There aren't many situations where kinetic damage is a bad thing.
Leon 026 Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:33:00 - [25] While we're at it, please un-nerf T2 light missiles and rockets. Rage/Javelin rockets are a bad joke, and with the zoomzoomÖ generation precision light missiles are worthless, as they wont be hitting fast things anyways without a web, with the addition of a lovely -7.5% speed. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Hayward Cyprus Caldari Exiled.	Posted - 2007.08.29 14:59:00 - [26] Edited by: Hayward Cyprus on 29/08/2007 15:01:06 Edited by: Hayward Cyprus on 29/08/2007 14:59:47 Well I would be all for the RoF Bonus, but please be aware that this means a 33% DPS increase, not only 25% as the regular damage bonus is, so I guess it's not an option. (although caldari could use that kind of boost). 100/75 = 1.333333 > 1.25 (reloading times not taken into account). And yes Kinetic damage is stupid, just like Capuse on lasers (would be ok if it was an EXTRA bonus (and maybe 12.5%/lvl) on amarr ships, but that way you waste one bonus for a weapon system that is not really superior (I don't fly amarr btw, do caldari tho)). Hayward
DRMALIKIA United Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:32:00 - [27] /SIGNED CCP RESPOND PLEASE!
Richard Masterson Generals Of Destruction Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:36:00 - [28] Originally by: bldyannoyed Projectiles can mix up their damage types, but ALL minnie ammo does some kinetic, and minnie tech1 ammo has lower base damage than any other ammo type. Fixed.
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.29 15:56:00 - [29] Kinetic bonuses are not "stupid". All races have a prferred damage type. Some of them have the ability to vary that one. Minmatar with t1 projectile ammo, gallente with drones, caldari with missiles. All of these races loose dps when using non-racial damage. projectile ammo which does not deal exp/kin does less damage than other races ammo with the same range modifier. Non-therm drones deal less dps. And all caldari missileboats but the raven have a kinetic damage bonus. If anything the raven is the anomaly here, since it is essentially the only ship in eve which can switch damage types without any restriction. Replacing the kinetic damage bonus with a ROF one or a all missile damage one is a buff which is not needed. Replacing it with a nondamage bonus would give many missile ships a max dps nerf which will actually decrease their performance (your nighthawk does less dps than your drake, for example).
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.29 16:24:00 - [30] Edited by: d026 on 29/08/2007 16:25:15 Originally by: Aramendel Kinetic bonuses are not "stupid". All races have a prferred damage type. Some of them have the ability to vary that one. Minmatar with t1 projectile ammo, gallente with drones, caldari with missiles. All of these races loose dps when using non-racial damage. projectile ammo which does not deal exp/kin does less damage than other races ammo with the same range modifier. Non-therm drones deal less dps. And all caldari missileboats but the raven have a kinetic damage bonus. If anything the raven is the anomaly here, since it is essentially the only ship in eve which can switch damage types without any restriction. Replacing the kinetic damage bonus with a ROF one or a all missile damage one is a buff which is not needed. Replacing it with a nondamage bonus would give many missile ships a max dps nerf which will actually decrease their performance (your nighthawk does less dps than your drake, for example). so why do amarr get a dmg bonus instead of a em bonus then? one otehr thing.. do you consider the raven overpowered with its rof + velocity bonus?

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