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tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
8
   |
Posted - 2012.01.16 22:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
After giving up once, I have decided to give trading another try.
First of all, to make things clear, I am NOT asking for items to trade, trade routes, or any other of your secrets.
All I want to know is how to: buy and sell, avoid/win 0.01 wars, and avoid traps that I, as a newb, am likely to fall for.
I usually find a nice item, look at the graphs, place a buy order, get 0.01'd by some bot/trader ever other minute.
I'd also like to know if it is possible to "logging in for 15 minutes ever day and make billions on the market" as I hear people brag about all the time.
And no, google were not able to give the answer.
P.S.: I also got an Orca for hauling. |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
99
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 22:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
http://www.thinkdreams.com/images/eve_docs/trading/TradingPvP.pdf
And if you don't like the .01 game, get out of Jita. You don't "win" that game. |
tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.16 23:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:http://www.thinkdreams.com/images/eve_docs/trading/TradingPvP.pdf
And if you don't like the .01 game, get out of Jita. You don't "win" that game.
Was far away from Jita. People still pointed and made fun of me as they added 0.02 to their buy order... |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
99
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 00:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:Was far away from Jita. People still pointed and made fun of me as they added 0.02 to their buy order...
Was it in a major hub or in a region with a major hub? |
tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 00:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:Was far away from Jita. People still pointed and made fun of me as they added 0.02 to their buy order... Was it in a major hub or in a region with a major hub?
How do I find a place with no people that still has stuff on the market?
Are mission hubs like Motsu good places? |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
209
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 00:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:Was far away from Jita. People still pointed and made fun of me as they added 0.02 to their buy order... Was it in a major hub or in a region with a major hub? How do I find a place with no people that still has stuff on the market? Are mission hubs like Motsu good places?
Local mission hubs, losec hubs, nullsec. By no people I assume you meant, fewer competitors.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
cigarellos
Trade Federation Directorate
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 00:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stop being afraid of the Jita dragon and face it like a man. Hit me up in-game so we can help you craft the finest mithril armor and forge a powerful sword. Only with courage (and enough liquid ISK) will you be able to overcome your fears. 
Jita for life
|
tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 01:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
cigarellos wrote:Stop being afraid of the Jita dragon and face it like a man. Hit me up in-game so we can help you craft the finest mithril armor and forge a powerful sword. Only with courage (and enough liquid ISK) will you be able to overcome your fears. Jita for life
I don't use mithril armor. Way to noisy and cold. I am a stealthy assassin with skillpoints in magic!
And I'd love to get a convo going at some point. I recently started a new life in nullsec though, not too many trips to jita untill my orca alt gets his trade skills up. Is ~700m enough liquid to start with? |
Aisha's Vengence
21
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 01:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
There's plenty of opportunity to make isk, even in the almighty Jita, without playing 0.01 games. Unfortunately they require knowledge, patience, and a bit of isk. Based on the OP, I conclude you have none of these things. |
tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 01:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aisha's Vengence wrote:There's plenty of opportunity to make isk, even in the almighty Jita, without playing 0.01 games. Unfortunately they require knowledge, patience, and a bit of isk. Based on the OP, I conclude you have none of these things.
Everyone must start somewhere, right?
Knowledge and ISK is something I currently seek. Patience is something I would say I already have. (Patience =/= staying at stations 24/7 updating buy/sell orders every other minute.) |
tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 02:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:http://www.thinkdreams.com/images/eve_docs/trading/TradingPvP.pdf
And if you don't like the .01 game, get out of Jita. You don't "win" that game.
I thank you for that very usefull link. One question though, I did not clearly catch how to find a fitting station to sell stuff at. Is just the first station I dock at or should I maybe look for stations with more/less activity? (Once I know this, my 3 original questions have been answered, YAY). |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force
Fatal Ascension
211
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 02:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:cigarellos wrote:Stop being afraid of the Jita dragon and face it like a man. Hit me up in-game so we can help you craft the finest mithril armor and forge a powerful sword. Only with courage (and enough liquid ISK) will you be able to overcome your fears. Jita for life I don't use mithril armor. Way to noisy and cold. I am a stealthy assassin with skillpoints in magic! And I'd love to get a convo going at some point. I recently started a new life in nullsec though, not too many trips to jita untill my orca alt gets his trade skills up. Is ~700m enough liquid to start with?
I had less than 700M when I started. Feel free to convo me too or send me a mail.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
99
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 04:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:I thank you for that very usefull link. One question though, I did not clearly catch how to find a fitting station to sell stuff at. Is just the first station I dock at or should I maybe look for stations with more/less activity? (Once I know this, my 3 original questions have been answered, YAY).
You find a system without a major hub, first of all. The idea is to train up Marketing and Daytrading so you don't have to choose a fitting station. You could sit anywhere in the region and do your trading remotely. |
tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 04:39:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:I thank you for that very usefull link. One question though, I did not clearly catch how to find a fitting station to sell stuff at. Is just the first station I dock at or should I maybe look for stations with more/less activity? (Once I know this, my 3 original questions have been answered, YAY). You find a system without a major hub, first of all. The idea is to train up Marketing and Daytrading so you don't have to choose a fitting station. You could sit anywhere in the region and do your trading remotely.
What if I want to do inter-regional trading (get some use for my orca)? |
Frost Mistress
Angel Heart Ammo Co.
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 05:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
To avoid the .01 is game I just set orders for max time over the region. I buy for a fair price that most if not all will wait untill said order is filled rather than trying to beat it and sell for a low price that does the same.
I also tend to sell in place this is not ideal for max return but it does give return over time and is steady. If you are going to play the buy as cheep as you can as close as you can so you can hall and then try to sell for the most be prepared to put alot of time into it.
I think I get like 5%-12% return. Sometimes less sometimes more. Keep in mind those that make billions norm don't have millions on the market making returns off 1000% + but rather they have a few hundred billion invested with low return.
2% of 100Bil is 2Bil after all.
Don't let my frosty appearance and cold attitude fool you.Once you get to know me you'll find I'm a complete and total *****-á |
Xintri Ra'Virr
Six Kin Mining and Development Group
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 09:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
My advices for a beginner Trader are:
1. You need a spreadsheet to manage your orders. Really it's the most important thing!!
Make one yourself or use someone's else on your own risk.
Good spreadsheet should contains columns:
- Item name
- Buy Price
- Amount
- Tax / Broker Fee
- Total Buy Price ( price * ammount )
- Sell Price
- Sell Ammount
- Profit Margin in %
- Total Sell Price
- Name of sell system
Spreadsheet will help you manage your sell orders, margins, item flow and so on. It will also give you another advantage - it will show you the moment when your investment started to make profits ( buying costs are covered in 100% ). From that moment you can manage your margins more freely and selling your items faster or slower by it.
2. Buy in Jita by buy orders, resell elsewhere.
3. People will gladly buy your items even if 70% overpriced if they save 9 jumps to trade hub.
4. Join Trade channels and Bulk Mailing List.
Big fishes swim there but some ppl will give you advices or show opportunities.
5. Set a few region buy orders for your best trade items @ 60-70% of its current value. You will be supriced how much and
cheap you can buy from ppl who not paying attention.
6. Dont use T1 Hauler for hauling - Never!
7. Skill for Covert Transport asap
8. Buy a Frieghter only if you really need it. Orca in most cases is better choice.
My 8 cents.
|
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
153
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 09:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Why is it generally assumed Jita is not newbie friendly?
And why is it generally assumed that you only go to Jita if you're prepared to play the 0.01 isk game?
Because in my, rarely humble, opinion - neither of these assumptions are correct.
A modicum of market knowledge, understanding and common sense is required in all markets - Jita does not require any more skill than others to work, you can lose your shirt, or make your fortune in all. Therefore, point one, Jita is just as newbie friendly as any other market (which may well be "not very", but that's beside the point).
Point two - after market knowledge, understanding and common sense the biggest hurdle the newbie trader has is cash flow. They can't bank roll long bets, they need their goods to shift so they can buy more stock. Just about everything will sell in Jita and sell fairly quick if priced keenly, it will sell quicker still if you are prepared to 0.01 isk. Now, in a backwater system things might take days or weeks to sell, and you can't speed that process by 0.01isking - there are either buyers and sellers around for your goods or there aren't - limited competion also generally implies limited customers. So point two - Jita is better when cash flow is a concern.
And point three - you don't have to 0.01 isk in Jita - 0.01isking is really only required when cash flow is a concern or if you're concerned you're on the wrong side of a coming market shift and need to buy/sell quick to get out (or in) a market sharpish. If cash flow is a concern such that 0.01isking is required then this option only really exists in quicker markets like Jita, and if you need to get in or out of a market quickly you're not going to be able to do that in a backwater system.
And finally, to answer the OP - yes it is possible to make billions by just logging in 15 minutes a day (or less). The caveat is that you need billions to begin with. If you've got 50b to play with and you've got some knowledge, understanding and common sense under your belt then you can make a couple of billion a month by logging in for just 15 minutes a month. You gain that knowledge and understanding by making millions logging in 15 minutes a day, then start making tens of millions logging in 15 minutes a day, then hundreds of millions. |
Xintri Ra'Virr
Six Kin Mining and Development Group
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 10:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tekota wrote:Why is it generally assumed Jita is not newbie friendly?
And why is it generally assumed that you only go to Jita if you're prepared to play the 0.01 isk game?
Because in my, rarely humble, opinion - neither of these assumptions are correct.
A modicum of market knowledge, understanding and common sense is required in all markets - Jita does not require any more skill than others to work, you can lose your shirt, or make your fortune in all. Therefore, point one, Jita is just as newbie friendly as any other market (which may well be "not very", but that's beside the point).
Point two - after market knowledge, understanding and common sense the biggest hurdle the newbie trader has is cash flow. They can't bank roll long bets, they need their goods to shift so they can buy more stock. Just about everything will sell in Jita and sell fairly quick if priced keenly, it will sell quicker still if you are prepared to 0.01 isk. Now, in a backwater system things might take days or weeks to sell, and you can't speed that process by 0.01isking - there are either buyers and sellers around for your goods or there aren't - limited competion also generally implies limited customers. So point two - Jita is better when cash flow is a concern.
And point three - you don't have to 0.01 isk in Jita - 0.01isking is really only required when cash flow is a concern or if you're concerned you're on the wrong side of a coming market shift and need to buy/sell quick to get out (or in) a market sharpish. If cash flow is a concern such that 0.01isking is required then this option only really exists in quicker markets like Jita, and if you need to get in or out of a market quickly you're not going to be able to do that in a backwater system.
And finally, to answer the OP - yes it is possible to make billions by just logging in 15 minutes a day (or less). The caveat is that you need billions to begin with. If you've got 50b to play with and you've got some knowledge, understanding and common sense under your belt then you can make a couple of billion a month by logging in for just 15 minutes a month. You gain that knowledge and understanding by making millions logging in 15 minutes a day, then start making tens of millions logging in 15 minutes a day, then hundreds of millions.
Jita is high competition market and require a lot of attention. Also profit margins are small because of that ( 10% as i heard )
Personally i don't see a reason to sell there when my margins are 50 - 70% average atm and requires to babysit once or twice per day.
|
malaire
182
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 10:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:I'd also like to know if it is possible to "logging in for 15 minutes ever day and make billions on the market" as I hear people brag about all the time.
I didn't see this answered yet:
With enough capital that certainly is possible, but I'm not sure how much would be needed. It also depends on how well you know markets and trading. And do you mean billions per day or per month?
I have currently 27 bil capital and while I do currently update my orders several times per day I believe I could make billions per month by just one update per day which would take some 30-60 minutes for me. (My knowledge about market and trading is still far worse than best traders so better traders would do much better with this amount of capital.)
New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else |
Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
99
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 11:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
I never said that Jita was a bad place for beginners. In fact, I think Jita is a great place to make your first billion or two, if you can put up with playing the .01 ISK game, because that's the only way to do it in a reasonable amount of time, and it will go pretty fast.
But once you have that billion or two under your belt, the returns you'll make on it in Jita are going to be seriously limited. At this point, it's best to move out into a non-hub region and start using remote trading skills (which you should have been training while you were docked up in Jita).
With this kind of system, you can harness an entire region to boost your buy and sell volume, while getting larger profit margins and not having to put up with so much fast-paced competition. I'm pulling in ~2.5bn ISK a month out in the boonies by just checking my orders twice a day (the sell orders I only check once, actually). Profit margin hovers around 30% on average.
The thing about this type of trading system is that there is ultimately going to be a cap to it. Eventually, you'll find that, using all or most of your orders, you can only reasonably expect to pull in so much per month. When you get to the point where your trading operation is sustaining itself, you have to find somewhere to put that extra cash to work for you. And I'd argue that that place is Jita. You can take those profits that are piling up in your wallet and start putting them out there for longer bets. Buy up a ton of minerals and sell them off 6 months later, or whenever they scoot up enough in price. Stuff like that. |
Ruvin
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 13:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:http://www.thinkdreams.com/images/eve_docs/trading/TradingPvP.pdf
And if you don't like the .01 game, get out of Jita. You don't "win" that game.
great read just finished it , rlly rlly liked it simple put, explained quite nice ... Really wana try it .
Also there was just 2 great tips from the start make the alt and play for free 51 days ...
Also with the 60 day voucher its another alt without any cost and maybe with some profit .
A great thread indeed , the OP is a corp mate but i might aswell try it also :) see how it goes . Seems nice for someone who likes this sort of things .
the emma hiis talking about , is it still updated ? does it still cost 100m ? where i can find latest version ?
tryed to google and found some threads on the old forum but those seem a couple of years old .... |
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
213
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 13:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Unfortunately I believe that EMMA is no longer updated.
I use EveHQ for some functionality that overlaps with what EMMA could do (mostly to view good summaries of assets and do weekly/monthly profit/loss reports) so you might want to try that (it is also free).
|
Ruvin
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.17 20:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
You know what i like about this section :D MD
if there is s scammer or smthing like that you can troll him into the ground i mean i saw some rlly outstanding stuff :D I mean Crime and punishment doesnt even get close to what you can do to someone who tryes to scam .
But at the same time if someone asks for help or advice you may be one of the most helpfull :D
p.s (at work i have to much free time i think i have readed 10 pages or so completly :D )
thanks ill try evehq then :) |
Kesker
Integrated Massive Dynamics
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 23:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ruvin wrote:Mu-Shi Ai wrote:http://www.thinkdreams.com/images/eve_docs/trading/TradingPvP.pdf
And if you don't like the .01 game, get out of Jita. You don't "win" that game. great read just finished it , rlly rlly liked it simple put, explained quite nice ... Really wana try it . Also there was just 2 great tips from the start make the alt and play for free 51 days ... Also with the 60 day voucher its another alt without any cost and maybe with some profit . A great thread indeed , the OP is a corp mate but i might aswell try it also :) see how it goes . Seems nice for someone who likes this sort of things . the emma hiis talking about , is it still updated ? does it still cost 100m ? where i can find latest version ? tryed to google and found some threads on the old forum but those seem a couple of years old ....
As the other poster mentioned, I believe EMMA is dead.
Although currently more of an Industrialist, I have spent a fair amount of time as a trader. RL job has me traveling, and hotel internet connections are not so great for missioning, or PvP. 
Regarding your question about an application for managing trade, I just stumbled upon one I like very much by first appearances. (Just getting back into trading a bit, as it is silly to have all those open trades available and doing nothing.)
Check out EVE Mentat
I've only just watched the YouTube videos and installed it. So far, I like what I see.
While I am a HUGE fan of EVE HQ, and use it extensively for my industial endeavors, it lacks some trade reporting options.
Feel free to contact me in game if you like. I'd be more than happy to give some advice or tips.
Kesker
|
Ireland VonVicious
Gurista Saints
Assassin Confederacy
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 19:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
From the looks of your thread I'd say go to tash-murkon.
It's a popular place for pilots so the traffic is high. Most are on missions trade here is a bit on the weak side.
It is a minor trade hub. It is the closest minor trade hub to a major trade hub. ((Amarr))
This will make sure you get use of that orca.
It's not a good place for everyone but for a guy with an orca who wants to haul and wants to keep it short with minimal risk/reward aspects it's a nice location. Nice steady income while you learn the bulk of the trading game.
If you end up not liking it atleast you can trade in amarr which should be a bit easier on a guy with minimal time for the 0.1 game when compared to jita.
To your other question: Yes you can log on for a few mins a day and make large sums of isk. You will need many billions before you start to see that happen. With 10bil you can make a good 150mil a day if you deal with your orders 3 times a day for 10 mins each time roughly (( This of coruse varries based on many other factors and is only a rough idea for you )). This can also be done while missioning if you are good at multitasking. |
tikktokk tokkzikk
Glorious Revolution
The 99 Percent
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 23:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
So I finally did it! I started trading! First I invested in some small stuff I hauled out to null and I am selling sickly overpriced. I also threw 150m into different itemd on the market. I can't wait till tomorrow when I'll get to see how stuff ends up!
And feel free to troll me for throwing ~200m into the market on my first try. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
302
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 23:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
tikktokk tokkzikk wrote:
I'd also like to know if it is possible to "logging in for 15 minutes ever day and make billions on the market" as I hear people brag about all the time.
It is possible, but it does not happen everyday. I can go for a month or two with a negative cash flow and then the next month or two have positive cash flow. All depends on how you approach things.
For instance, last summer I bought a lot of something for 100/unit and recently sold all of it for 900/unit, took a few months on that particular item, but it was worth the wait. |
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