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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:24:00 - [1] CCP nailed me for an extra $71.70 on patch day and so far has refused to respond. Be forewarned, if you used a CC to pay for your account right before the patch check your statement to be sure you didn't get double charged like me. Still waiting CCP. Hope this an isolated case because at this rate you're going to have a lot of po'ed players.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:27:00 - [2] /me enjoys the benefits from being able to lock his CC's from internet usage Help me help you .

Gorthauran Amarr Throne of Tragedy	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Paul Castrin CCP nailed me for an extra $71.70 on patch day and so far has refused to respond. Be forewarned, if you used a CC to pay for your account right before the patch check your statement to be sure you didn't get double charged like me. Still waiting CCP. Hope this an isolated case because at this rate you're going to have a lot of po'ed players. It was your shout for the beers this week don't ya know =P Seriously though thats a bit rough...quite a hefty overcharge.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:34:00 - [4] Originally by: Paul Castrin CCP nailed me for an extra $71.70 on patch day and so far has refused to respond. Be forewarned, if you used a CC to pay for your account right before the patch check your statement to be sure you didn't get double charged like me. Still waiting CCP. Hope this an isolated case because at this rate you're going to have a lot of po'ed players. If you submit a billing petition the GMs will get to it and sort it out for you. Originally by: Chribba /me enjoys the benefits from being able to lock his CC's from internet usage Only security my bank offers is the possibility of using an e-card that can only be used once when I open it. Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:38:00 - [5] Edited by: Paul Castrin on 30/08/2007 14:38:22 Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Paul Castrin CCP nailed me for an extra $71.70 on patch day and so far has refused to respond. Be forewarned, if you used a CC to pay for your account right before the patch check your statement to be sure you didn't get double charged like me. Still waiting CCP. Hope this an isolated case because at this rate you're going to have a lot of po'ed players. If you submit a billing petition the GMs will get to it and sort it out for you. Appologies but please re-read the above. There has been NO response. For the record that in "no respose" to the petition filed. Why else would I be waiting for a response? Still waiting.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:45:00 - [6] Originally by: Paul Castrin Appologies but please re-read the above. There has been NO response. For the record that in "no respose" to the petition filed. Why else would I be waiting for a response? Still waiting. You submitted the petition yesterday and it is in the system. I would guess the queue means you'll get a reply early next week, maybe during the weekend. Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:48:00 - [7] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Paul Castrin Appologies but please re-read the above. There has been NO response. For the record that in "no respose" to the petition filed. Why else would I be waiting for a response? Still waiting. You submitted the petition yesterday and it is in the system. I would guess the queue means you'll get a reply early next week, maybe during the weekend. you have that many billing issue's? don't you think billing issues should take pretty high priority.... Join The Fight With Promo Today
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:49:00 - [8] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Paul Castrin Appologies but please re-read the above. There has been NO response. For the record that in "no respose" to the petition filed. Why else would I be waiting for a response? Still waiting. You submitted the petition yesterday and it is in the system. I would guess the queue means you'll get a reply early next week, maybe during the weekend. Glad to know that. Though considering it's a bit more critical than a "stuck" petition I had hoped for a faster reply. In the mean time I felt it was a good idea to warn the rest of the EVE community. Where it happens once it could have happened many many times considering the number of players here. Peace.
Celestal	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:52:00 - [9] Originally by: Paul Castrin so far has refused to respond. . Originally by: Paul Castrin There has been NO response. For the record that in "no respose" to the petition filed. Why else would I be waiting for a response? Still waiting.[/quote please explain how you interpret no response ( yet ) as a refusal to respond , a refusal to respond would indicate a response ?

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:52:00 - [10] Originally by: Paul Castrin Glad to know that. Though considering it's a bit more critical than a "stuck" petition I had hoped for a faster reply. In the mean time I felt it was a good idea to warn the rest of the EVE community. Where it happens once it could have happened many many times considering the number of players here. Peace. Normally it shouldn't take more than 48 hours, but right now we have a lot of billing petitions. Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.30 14:58:00 - [11] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Paul Castrin Glad to know that. Though considering it's a bit more critical than a "stuck" petition I had hoped for a faster reply. In the mean time I felt it was a good idea to warn the rest of the EVE community. Where it happens once it could have happened many many times considering the number of players here. Peace. Normally it shouldn't take more than 48 hours, but right now we have a lot of billing petitions. My own petition for the exact same thing some months ago took about a week to get answered. However, when it was, everything went smooth and I got my money back. Still, seeing as how this looks to be a repeated occurrence, I think there is something wrong with your subscription/account management code that needs to be fixed ASAP. We might have gotten our money back no problem, but some people might never even notice this.
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 15:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Celestal please explain how you interpret no response ( yet ) as a refusal to respond , a refusal to respond would indicate a response ? Just as the controls on a airplane can "refuse" to respond. Now please go back to whatever bridge you were hiding under.
Xantia Gedur House of Gedur	Posted - 2007.08.30 15:01:00 - [13] Originally by: sableye you have that many billing issue's? don't you think billing issues should take pretty high priority.... Maybe if people wouldn't flood the petition queues with false ship losses and similar crap - CCP could get through more petitions faster and help people who genuinely need help like the OP. People complain about the petition queue when it affects them but when they do something stupid like jump into a camped gate and die or get owned in pvp they make useless false petitions which wastes everybody's time and just add to the load.
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 15:05:00 - [14] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Normally it shouldn't take more than 48 hours, but right now we have a lot of billing petitions. Ominious so I will relent. However I will say that 24 hours should be your goal IMHO. As another poster noted, maybe the billing system needs a revamp. Anyway I will await for more info (and a resolution) and hope this has not happened to anyone else. Peace.
Steve Hawkings	Posted - 2007.08.30 15:11:00 - [15] Credit cards are only for the gullible and easily led members of a backwards heading, Item dominated society.
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 15:25:00 - [16] Edited by: Paul Castrin on 30/08/2007 15:26:33 Originally by: Xantia Gedur Originally by: sableye you have that many billing issue's? don't you think billing issues should take pretty high priority.... Maybe if people wouldn't flood the petition queues with false ship losses and similar crap - CCP could get through more petitions faster and help people who genuinely need help like the OP. A possible cause of the delay but from Wrangler's comments it looks like they are having serious billing issues. Possible that there are a ton of double charges out there thus people should definitely check their Credit Card balances (or bank statements if they are doing the direct pay routine). So to all, again, check your account balances and charge histories ASAP.
Imajihad ju	Posted - 2007.08.30 15:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Xantia Gedur Maybe if people wouldn't flood the petition queues with false ship losses and similar crap - CCP could get through more petitions faster and help people who genuinely need help like the OP. People complain about the petition queue when it affects them but when they do something stupid like jump into a camped gate and die or get owned in pvp they make useless false petitions which wastes everybody's time and just add to the load. Because CCP is completely unable to sort their petitions by type or priority. Actually though I wouldn't be surprised if they are incapable of it. The level of customer service they provide is simply pathetic. If it takes more than 24 hours for them to address a billing issue simply call your credit card company or bank and deny the charge and have them charge back to CCP. Waiting longer puts you at risk of 'accepting' the charge and being liable for it regardless.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:04:00 - [18] You guys do realize that there are other options for payment of your subscription that do not involve CC details, right? This incident is just one of the many reasons why I never bring my CC details online, or even near a computer, cept to the bank's main database-thingy of course, and only when I actually go there in person. Bit paranoid much? Quite, but at least I can be a bit less paranoid about extra charges like this coming out of the woodwork of no fault of my own. Not that CCP is at fault, no, probably just some glitch in their system. Glitches happen, and even my CC bank has had its share (like the bank itself charging me for a service that didnt exist? That was sorted out asap of course). - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari You guys do realize that there are other options for payment of your subscription that do not involve CC details, right? This incident is just one of the many reasons why I never bring my CC details online, or even near a computer, cept to the bank's main database-thingy of course, and only when I actually go there in person. Bit paranoid much? Quite, but at least I can be a bit less paranoid about extra charges like this coming out of the woodwork of no fault of my own. Not that CCP is at fault, no, probably just some glitch in their system. Glitches happen, and even my CC bank has had its share (like the bank itself charging me for a service that didnt exist? That was sorted out asap of course). Use of a CC is not the issue here. Getting a double charge is. Money is still money however you choose to send it to CCP. And I should note that if anyone got my CC details from CCP or any other online retailer I frequent they would be sad to find them totally useless. I won't go into how or why, that's my secret.
Imajihad ju	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Not that CCP is at fault, no, probably just some glitch in their system. Glitches happen, and even my CC bank has had its share (like the bank itself charging me for a service that didnt exist? That was sorted out asap of course). Glitches are their fault. They provide a service to a contract. If they have a glitch that violates the contract (such as double charging you) it is indeed their fault. That they don't manage to deal with it ASAP just makes it that much worse. Frankly since their customer service apparently takes days to handle a billing issue I'd advocate for people to simply call up VISA/Mastercard/AMEX/Their Bank and force a charge back and forgo the petition process entirely. CCP will face a fine from the credit company due to the charge back. If say just 10% of the people who got billed illegitimately actually did that CCP would probably notice. They have to eat the fines or they don't get to process the cards in question/face issues doing so. Might actually make them solve whatever issues prevent them from dealing with billing disputes in a timely manner. Especially given they give no telephone support at all. 24 hours + to solve a billing dispute is... there's just no excuse for that. Period.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:16:00 - [21] I was a bit wrong there, normally we have a 24 hours response rate policy when it comes to billing issues, not 48 hours as I previously stated. The reason billing petitions take some extra time is not due to any major problem with our billing system, you should remember a lot of other issues go to this queue as well such as lost passwords and other account management issues. We now have a larger group than before working on the billing system in order to provide all of you with more information than we have previously, though that is not yet active. We're also working on enabling a larger variety of payment options. Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ

KingKenny Minmatar Under The Edge	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:27:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Wrangler ..... We're also working on enabling a larger variety of payment options. Direct Debit or Maestro would be nice.
RossP Zoyka	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:29:00 - [23] God you made me so paranoid OP! Luckily my CC is fine :)

CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:30:00 - [24] Everyone, both here at CCP and everywhere else, understands that financial issues are serious and sensitive. I've had the unpleasant experience of financing my studies by working at an internet help-desk, as well as getting to battle said ISP over false claims which they used to shut down my DSL during finals / project hand-ins, so I perfectly understand your frustration. Actually, everyone probably understands your frustration as moneys are one of the main source of stress for most people. In a perfect world we would instantly take care of all billing petitions. In a normal world we'd take between 24 - 48 hours to do so. In exceptional cases said time needs to be extended. Murphy's law is simply a sad fact of life so exceptional cases are bound to rise. In exceptional cases we still have to follow standard protocol and address those billing issues who arrived before your petition first. I know you know this and nobody likes having to wait in line but such is the current situation. Although I had nothing to do with any of this I'm still terribly sorry for your trouble and I hope it's not propagating into further troubles for you, which is so often the nature of financial issues. So in short: I am personally sorry for this inconvenience and I can fully relate to this situation, but rest assured we're not ignoring you or leaving you hanging due to malicious intentions. We care way more than that. ~ Prism X Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:32:00 - [25] Crowd Care Productions. :) --- Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.08.30 16:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Jim McGregor Crowd Care Productions. :) Whilst I'd love that to happen to the guys who handle all the petitions, God help me if I find more of that in my EVE. Sure it'll attract newcomers, but EVE is meant to be harsh. Ending offtopic post now. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 17:00:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Prism X So in short: I am personally sorry for this inconvenience and I can fully relate to this situation, but rest assured we're not ignoring you or leaving you hanging due to malicious intentions. We care way more than that. Thanks for the response and yes it's truly frustrating when one payment domino causes a cascade failure in your payment schedule. I did not nor do I perceive a "malicious intent" in regards to this. I waited (approx) 24 hours and during that time I cooled down from the initial shock and felt that the rest of the community should be alerted (and tbh it might help my own case). That the problem is both common and more extensive is something that CCP needs to address but again I don't feel they are shirking their duty to us. If plans are in the works then I'm happy but of course I feel my case more acutely than any others so I just hope things will be resolved for me soon and that the entire system be fixed in the nearer future. Anyway, thanks again for the understanding and responses. I will cross my fingers that we can get this resolved as soon as feasible. Peace.
Gwoden Gallente Exa Utopia Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.08.30 17:10:00 - [28] You really only need to sweat of the charge costs you money. In other words, you only have to worry about it if the charge stays on your account long enough to be included in the interest charge. :) And if that happened, the CC company will probably even return the interest to you as it was made due to a false charge. In short, thanks for the info, but don't worry. It'll all work out in the end. _______________________________________________ There is no "I can't" only "I will".
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2007.08.30 17:16:00 - [29] I not worried... nothing from nothing is nothing Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking ~Liz Kali
phrstbrn	Posted - 2007.08.30 17:21:00 - [30] I had a similar problem about a month ago. CCP doesn't have a way to change your billing method (from GTCs to CC). They didn't tell me they were going to charge it, didn't say how much they were going to charge, or for how long. Nothing indicating they were going to charge my card right then and there. "Update Payment Info" is not the same thing as "I Authorize This Charge" (ignoring the fact that they didn't even list a dollar amount for the charge). Took them about 5 days to give me an answer. After sending in a third petition, (the first two were answered with some irrelevant canned response), it got escalated to a Senior GM who took care of the situation immediately. Taking that long to resolve a billing issue is just ridiculous. At least I know I'm not alone, and CCP needs a major revamp of the billing situation. Taking 5 days is just unacceptable. If issues dealing with REAL MONEY aren't important, then I don't know what is.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.30 17:27:00 - [31] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari You guys do realize that there are other options for payment of your subscription that do not involve CC details, right? This incident is just one of the many reasons why I never bring my CC details online, or even near a computer, cept to the bank's main database-thingy of course, and only when I actually go there in person. Bit paranoid much? Quite, but at least I can be a bit less paranoid about extra charges like this coming out of the woodwork of no fault of my own. Not that CCP is at fault, no, probably just some glitch in their system. Glitches happen, and even my CC bank has had its share (like the bank itself charging me for a service that didnt exist? That was sorted out asap of course). People who are paranoid about putting their credit card numbers into a computer are invariably the same ones who are willing to use them in a shady Stop'n'Gas, or hand them to the waiter and go back to talking to their date at the restaurant. Not using your credit card in (situation x) is not the problem; not trusting the merchant to store and use your credit card data according to your direct and explicit needs is. That Stop'n'Gas store owner need only press a couple buttons to charge you twice for your gas. The waiter is writing down your credit card number, expiration, and CVV. Either of their credit card machines might be the old style that print your entire credit card number and expiration on the receipt, which you toss into the trash outside the establishment when you exit. Have I made you more paranoid yet? Good. Now stop blaming the computers, and start blaming the people. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
DirtyHarry Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.30 17:43:00 - [32] Ive been double charged about 3 times over my time in eve, even though it was sorted out within a week each time it shouldn't happen in the first place. RKK INNIT - Havo / DH
Ghaelsto Kakram	Posted - 2007.08.30 17:45:00 - [33] Even CC are desyncing nowadays?
Imajihad ju	Posted - 2007.08.30 18:15:00 - [34] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Normally it shouldn't take more than 48 hours Originally by: CCP Wrangler normally we have a 24 hours response rate policy Originally by: CCP Prism X In a normal world we'd take between 24 - 48 hours to do so. So which is it again? And why are people reporting 5 days to handle a billing dispute during 'normal' times? It is purely coincidence that the 'normal' time gets shortened to 24 hours 'or so' after someone suggests something that would cost you a lot of money right? No I do not feel like an ass for pointing out your mistakes. But then hey I've got a petition(non-billing) that remains unresolved despite three CSR responses and the assurance that action would be taken, 20 days ago. I'm understandably bitter and you're a wonderful target. Cheerio and much love.
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.08.30 18:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Pilk People who are paranoid about putting their credit card numbers into a computer are invariably the same ones who are willing to use them in a shady Stop'n'Gas, or hand them to the waiter and go back to talking to their date at the restaurant. Not using your credit card in (situation x) is not the problem; not trusting the merchant to store and use your credit card data according to your direct and explicit needs is. That Stop'n'Gas store owner need only press a couple buttons to charge you twice for your gas. The waiter is writing down your credit card number, expiration, and CVV. Either of their credit card machines might be the old style that print your entire credit card number and expiration on the receipt, which you toss into the trash outside the establishment when you exit. Have I made you more paranoid yet? Good. Now stop blaming the computers, and start blaming the people. --P Just FYI, I dont even use my CC in public like that. I always make sure that for such situations, I use cash. OMG CASH IS SO ARCHANIC. Yes, true, but its better than having a debt that the banks all of a sudden slap on you just because you've been careless once. The last time I used my CC (of which I'm contemplating of closing it since then) was to pay for EVE. Once. Yes, I'm weird for not having CC use. I dont need it, considering. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Rutoo Gallente Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.30 18:55:00 - [36] As i have worked in a billing department - i can say with confidence that about 70%+ of billing problems are lack of customer understanding, Didn't understand billing cycles - auto renewal, or just plain trying to get away by getting free $$, Yes Billing issues to happen, not usually as often as people like to think, I've played eve for 3 years - currently have 4 accounts, and have not had any billing issues at all. As for Refusing to respond, they don't refuse to respond (unless it's in the case of my EULA petition that has yet to be responded to (4 months and counting)) but 71.70 sounds like 6 months of eve to me. _________________________________________________________ My Second EvE Video Club Seals Not Sandwichs
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.08.30 19:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Rutoo but 71.70 sounds like 6 months of eve to me. Now that you've mentioned it, that does add up. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Paul Castrin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.30 19:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Rutoo As i have worked in a billing department - i can say with confidence that about 70%+ of billing problems are lack of customer understanding, Didn't understand billing cycles - auto renewal, or just plain trying to get away by getting free $$, Yes Billing issues to happen, not usually as often as people like to think, I've played eve for 3 years - currently have 4 accounts, and have not had any billing issues at all. As for Refusing to respond, they don't refuse to respond (unless it's in the case of my EULA petition that has yet to be responded to (4 months and counting)) but 71.70 sounds like 6 months of eve to me. Not going to go into details here but suffice it to say I have enough evidence to warrant a petition. And in 3+ years of playing EVE I can count the number of petitions I've made on one hand and none are billing related. Heck, even when I switched from direct pay to CC I didn't have a problem like this. Yes, it is 6 months, no trickery there. I reactivated an account and then soon after got charged again for said account. At this point I can assume that since one charge was from Iceland and the other was from the UK something got out of sync and billing thought it was up for renewal even though I already had 6 months on the account. All conjecture mind you but I'm not hiding anything so I guess I fall into that 30% of legit billing problems. The point is that if it happened to me it might have happened to others thus the warning. Take that for what you will. Peace.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.30 19:31:00 - [39] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari OMG CASH IS SO ARCHANIC. Archanic you say? Is that like an anarchronism? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.30 19:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Paul Castrin The point is that if it happened to me it might have happened to others thus the warning. Take that for what you will. I believe anything that is possible to happen to you is possible to happen to other people. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person

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