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Open Letter to the Developers of EVE Online [CCP]

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Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:42:00 - [1] - Quote This morning in the shower, I remembered that needed to cancel my EVE Online subscription before the renewal date. This must be the tenth time IGÇÖve cancelled my subscription, and even before doing so I know IGÇÖll be back as a subscriber again. I then got to thinking why do I keep alternately subscribing and cancelling my subscription to EVE Online, and what could be done to keep me, and others like me, as steady customers. During the length of said shower I came up with the contents of the following open letterGÇª This is an open letter to the developers of EVE Online [the game]. My intent is to voice my opinion on how best to move the EVE Universe forward and make the game more appealing to a larger audience. My reasoning is twofold. The first is selfish: it is simply how IGÇÖd like to see the EVE Universe change to best suit my vision how it should be. The second is more altruistic: it is the simple truth that the more people in numbers and variety that play the game, the better the gameGÇÖs economy works and since the EVE Universe is first and foremost an economy simulation this is where efforts need to be focused. Let us start with the solo player aspect of the game. Today, despite the gameGÇÖs developersGÇÖ best efforts, I could define solo play in the EVE Universe as boring and repetitive. Playing alone in any massively multiplayer online game [MMO] is, by definition, not intended use. However, it is the way a very large portion of the subscribing populous does in fact play these games. There are a huge number of reasons to play alone in a game populated with thousands (or millions) of other people, all playing the same game. Reasons vary from insufficient time to play with others; to not knowing other players therefore not having friends to play with; to simply being introverted and preferring onesGÇÖ own company to that of others. Whatever the reason these are paying customers and should be catered to. There are a number of issues with EVE OnlineGÇÖs solo player experience. First thereGÇÖs limited reasons to play solo. The primary activities done solo, in my experiences playing the game, are completing missions, mining asteroids, and engaging in the harassment of other players for my own enjoyment. LetGÇÖs first focus on the experiences that do not require the involvement of other players. The completion of missions is a moderately rewarding experience. In my experience the reward curve (measured in the enjoyment of the activity as opposed to the in game currency reward) is a third degree curve: one that starts very high on the enjoyment axis and quickly drops to below zero, only to oscillate above and below the zero axis until at comes to reset at zero. The problem with mission completion is repetition with the impetus to move forward. The only compelling reasons to complete missions that I know of are the in game currency reward [ISK], loyalty points (another form of currency), and faction standing (a third form of currency used to access more missions). Mining in the EVE Universe is potentially the most boring activity ever presented to mankind as a form of play. Even golf is far more an exciting and rewarding way to spend your time. As best I can tell mining as an activity only exists in the game to provide a limitation to the influx of new raw materials thus stabilizing the economy. It requires hours of time spent doing mindless tasks best left to a automation and is both a waste of personal time for the EVE Online subscriber as well as server time for CCP. In my opinion these are insufficient rewards to keep the game interesting to anyone who, for whatever reason, is playing solo and that customer will unsubscribe as their return on investment [ROI] decreases past their minimal threshold for paying the subscription fee. With mining it is even worse that with completing missions because thereGÇÖs very little personal ROI for those engaged in spending their days and nights mining for ore to sell for ISK. In fact it has become such a critical, yet painfully boring part of the game that many players have looked outside the offerings of CCP to spend additional money to purchase software which will automate mining and therefore reduce the boredom. This means that the only way to make mining enjoyable is to violate the end user license agreement [EULA]. Making a bad situation worse is that the large scale usage of bots to make mining rewarding punishes those who havenGÇÖt broken the EULA by suppressing the value of ore in the economy and consuming deposits (asteroids). This is a fundamentally broken system, and I fully believe CCP knows it to be broken because I have seen obvious usage of automated mining tools [bots] go on for months without any repercussions. [CCP: If a player never logs off and never stops mining, that player is a bot. Clear and simple.] - A.Mobius
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:42:00 - [2] - Quote Then what are the rewards to encourage the mass of solo players to continue playing EVE Online? First is to making completing missions interesting. This means more story arcs and some method to personalize the experience. My recommendations are to add a new mechanism to the game called GÇ£CrewGÇ¥ which cannot be bought or sold but only obtained through completing missions, faction standing, and the upcoming Incarna interaction which are to be added to the game. I see Crew working as such: ships in the game have a number of GÇ£Crew SlotsGÇ¥ which allow the assignment of GÇ£Crew MembersGÇ¥, smaller ships having fewer lots and larger ships having more. Crew Members add specific bonuses to the various aspects of a ship when assigned. For example a Crew Member might make a ship accelerate faster and change direction quicker as well. One important difference between ship modules and Crew Members is that Crew Members increased their value over time. The longer you have a Crew Members assigned to an active ship the better and more varied their skills become. This is analogous to how player characters improve over time using the gameGÇÖs learning mechanism. However, like ship modules, if a ship is destroyed thereGÇÖs only a small chance a Crew Member will survive and the captain will need to return to rescue the lost Crew Member(s). Crew Members rescued by another captain might be persuaded to abandon their old captain and join the new captain, but this should be dependent on the Crew Members loyalty requirements (such as faction and/or Concord standing, or the captainGÇÖs race) and the captainsGÇÖ competing social skills. Crew gives players another reason to not want to lose their active ship because Crew Members are built up over time and longer you keep your Crew Member alive the better they are. Therefore losing them can be traumatic. Losing them to a non-player faction could result in rescue missions, losing them to a player could result in hostage negotiations, police reports, or the afore mentioned rescue missions. There are dozens of ways this could be played out. Most importantly, acquiring new Crew Members should involve interactions at a station where by the Crew Member is recruited. This would ideally be done via Incarna, but not be delayed by Incarna being a requirement. To make Crew Members balanced and prevent hording, I recommend that CCP require that Crew Members receive a periodic salary regardless of use. Any Crew Member GÇ£possessedGÇ¥ by a pilot should cost an amount of ISK relative to their skill levels each period (be it an hour, a day, or a month). This should be true of Crew Members assigned to a ship or simply waiting at the station. Unpaid Crew Members should leave the employ of their captain and become part of the pool, available to other captains. Another limitation to dissuade hording should be the limitation that Crew Members only improve their skills when assigned to an active ship, though the ship shouldnGÇÖt need to be undocked; and to be fair their skill should increase whenever their captainGÇÖs skills are increasing. The fact that the majority of the EVE UniverseGÇÖs population lives within the Great Empires means the majority of new Crew Members can only be found within the boards of the Great Empires. This gives meaning to security status, as outlaws actually have a penalty for being barred from higher security space: they donGÇÖt have access to the large pool of available Crew Members. EVE OnlineGÇÖs security status has always been a joke because nobody really cared about it, now thereGÇÖs a mechanism by which it becomes important. Of course, Agents who are very happy with the performance of a captain, could introduce potential new Crew Members as well; and this should be true of Empire Agents as well as GÇ£PirateGÇ¥ Agents. - A.Mobius
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:43:00 - [3] - Quote The experience of completing missions could also be improved by reducing the chance that my third solo activity (engaging in the harassment of other players for my enjoyment) is reduced while in the process of completing a mission. I have a simple mechanism and a solid in game logic to explain it. Since most missions are in GÇ£dead spaceGÇ¥ where faster than light travel [FTL] isnGÇÖt possible, it shouldnGÇÖt be possible for any kind of scanners to detect activity within dead space. Somebody needs to explain to me how anything is detected inside dead space at faster than light. Even at the amazingly fast speed of light, it takes eight minutes to each the Earth from the sun and over four hours to reach Neptune. Given that, dead space should be blocking any FTL transmission. How are details such as ship placement visible from within a pocket of dead space? Simply put they shouldnGÇÖt be. The pocket of dead space itself should be easily detectable, but not the contents within. Therefore players looking to harass other players should be allowed to warp to the edge of the dead space pocket, but be forced to travel at sub-luminal speeds looking for the acceleration gate, potentially a multi-hour/day activity. Without this limitation imposed by dead space what logical reason is there that the EVE UniverseGÇÖs massive empires still have rouge elements within them? How can a military body the size of the Gallente Federation Navy, which protects hundreds if not thousands of planets, be unable to hunt down and decimate a single corporation? Why provide the player characters with secret acceleration gate locations when anyone who warps to the edge of the dead space will magically find the necessary acceleration gate? The only logical thing to do here is to make dead space FTL signal-dead and prevent the scanning of the objects within. Only by knowing the location of an acceleration gate can one access the dead space. Finally, the discovery of these acceleration gates should be one of the key activities of the upcoming Incarna experience; players should need to research, coerce, and bribe the information to use for their selves, provide to the empires, or sell to the highest bidder. This change doesnGÇÖt have to be limited to solo player activity. By changing the nature of dead space, player run corporations will more easily be able to hide their player own stations and other valuables, however now the valuable location will be the acceleration gate(s). To offset the safety provided by a darkened dead space, I believe CCP should prevent warp from being initiated with dead space as well. Except in the case of pod emergency warp, ships should require the use of an acceleration gate to get out of dead space as well. This means once players have committed to a mission they must complete it or fail. With the addition of Crew the stakes have been raised and the player has only themselves to blame. These stressful situations with so much on the table are amazingly rewards when you succeed; they can be quite addicting. The only method I have come up with to resolving the problem of the low ROI the activity of mining provided for EVE Online subscribers is the same solution that so many before me have come up with: use a bot. From my point of view CCP has a choice to make: either get serious about banning bots and punishing users of them, or create your own mining bot. I believe CCP should create a sanctioned mining bot which can keep a character online, even when the player has logged out, to continue mining as much as possible. Admittedly this will have an impact on the economy due to the flood of raw materials. I do have this to say about it however: because asteroids are limited and are consumed by the act of mining the actual amount of minerals being dumped on the market is limited; in my experience this nearly happening today anyways; therefore by allowing all subscribers to engage in mining with a bot only EULA breakers are being punished. However, since there will likely be more minerals injected into the market we need a proper sink to keep the economy balanced. - A.Mobius
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:44:00 - [4] - Quote LetGÇÖs talk T3 battleships and ship modules. It is, and has been, my opinion that there should be benefits for hard welding modules to a ship such that that ship is no longer flexible. This is what I think T3 battleships should be. IGÇÖd recommend giving them a significant boost to performance with the drawback at removing ship modules from the ship destroys the modules. The same should be true of T3 ship modules as well: once fitted to a ship they cannot be unfit without being destroyed. This would make them rare and therefore valuable; in addition it would require the use of large amount of minerals to keep the consumer population happy thus offsetting the CCP provided mining bot. Player harassment in the game is what separated EVE Online from its MMO competitors. I would not recommend removing it. As outlined above, I do recommend attaching difficulties and penalties to it however. Today the few garner too much happiness at the expense of the many and the many have no recourse by to punish CCP by voting with their wallets and their feet. There should be a system of laws in place that have meaning and impact, and I believe requiring minimal security status to have access to new Crew Members and to Agents to for access to acceleration gates should be enough. I would touch on one last topic before ending this letter. IGÇÖd like to touch on the topic of subscriptions and pay for services. To date, CCP has been an industry leader in innovative methods by which to profit while adding value to their customersGÇÖ experiences. The concept of PLEX is an elegant and fairly effective method by which to limit the impact of GÇ£gold farmersGÇ¥ on the game. The Character Bazaar is another elegant was to deter the existence of third party character sellers (aka XP Farmers) whoGÇÖs only value add is the ability to skip a portion of the game for a price. Both models bolster CCPGÇÖs bottom line while improving the gaming experience. With all of these novel methods of allowing subscribers to pay for what they want, I recommend that CCP consider making the subscription system for EVE Online even more flexible. First, make EVE Online free to play. Limit free accounts to the same rules as Trial Accounts are currently limited. In addition only allow free accounts to logon for a limited amount of time each day, perhaps two hours per day is a good amount of time. During this time is the only time a character on the account can accumulate new skill points; and if the Crew idea is implemented limited Crew Member skill point accrual to limited to this time as well. This would vastly increase the number of active players in the game, benefiting the economy through diversity and volume. Benefiting the economy is benefitting everyone, and the ability to advertise EVE Online as free should a boon to CCPGÇÖs marketing department. Seems like a win-win for everyone. Of course, the first 14 or 30 days should be free, as is the model today. Second, enable tiers of services for players capable and willing to spend more money on their past time. For example, I recommend that CPP allow players to pay an extra $10 to purchase a 30-Day Pilot Training Accelerator License [PTAL] which can be used to increase their characterGÇÖs learning speed by 50%, or be sold on the in game market for ISK. Perhaps even allow two PTALs to be applied to a single character at a time, effectively doubling the characters skill point accrual for 30 days. Sell Pilot License [PLEX] in various denominations. 15-day for US$10, 30-day for US$15, and 90-day US$40 seem the most logical denominations to me. This will allow players short on cash to continue their characterGÇÖs development on a reduced budget; and allow those players who have the capacity to spend the additional money on a CCP product. This would also make the in game economy more fluid as the diversity of PLEX products increased and players could make choices based on their bet as to which products will best maintain their in game value relative to the real world cost. - A.Mobius
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 226	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:44:00 - [5] - Quote Features and Ideas forum is that way --> edit: Holy walls of text Batman! The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:44:00 - [6] - Quote There you have roughly twenty minutes of thought. While admittedly a long shower, is a short amount of time to have spent thinking about topics as in depth as this. Therefore I present these thought as what they are, the initial seeds of ideas, not yet fully thought out or scoped. I do believe thereGÇÖs something valuable here and therefore have presented these ideas as is. Thanks for your time and I hope something has sparked your imagination. Fly safe - A.Mobius
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:46:00 - [7] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: Features and Ideas forum is that way --> Which way? I don't post much on these forums. I looked about but didn't see any good place to park my thread. My apologies if this is the wrong place. Could a Mod relocate this post to where it should, if I have posted in the incorrect location? Thanks! - A.Mobius
Doc Fury Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 226	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:48:00 - [8] - Quote Anika Mobius wrote: Doc Fury wrote: Features and Ideas forum is that way --> Which way? I don't post much on these forums. I looked about but didn't see any good place to park my thread. EVE Features and Ideas Discussion The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service 40	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:52:00 - [9] - Quote ..the kind of people flying solo and doing 'their stuff' mostly have a limited time window only for the game and would like to enjoy this time to the fullest - within a ruthless sci-fi-environment. Your proposal to field crews on ships does not make sense in that regard, as this would need coordination and more importantly - trust. Take another shower...
Dbars Grinding Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 334	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:56:00 - [10] - Quote Now, this is the story all about how My life got flipped-turned upside down And I'd like to take a minute Just sit right there I'll tell you how I became the prince of a town called Bel Air In west Philadelphia born and raised On the playground was where I spent most of my days Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool And all shootin some b-ball outside of school When a couple of guys Who were up to no good Startin making trouble in my neighborhood I got in one little fight and my mom got scared She said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air' I begged and pleaded with her day after day But she packed my suite case and sent me on my way She gave me a kiss and then she gave me my ticket. I put my walkman on and said, 'I might as well kick it'. First class, yo this is bad Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass. Is this what the people of Bel-Air living like? Hmmmmm this might be alright. But wait, I hear the prissy, booze, whine, all that Is this the type of place that they should send this cool cat? I don't think so I'll see when I get there I hope they're prepared for the prince of Bel-Air Well uh, the plane landed and when I came out There was a dude who looked like a cop standing there with my name out I ain't trying to get arrested yet. I just got here! I sprang with the quickness, like lightening disappeared I whistled for a cab and when it came near The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror If anything I can say is that this cab was rare But I thought 'Man forget it' - 'Yo home to Bel Air' I pulled up to the house about seven or eight And I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later' I looked to my kingdom I was finally there To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:58:00 - [11] - Quote Tres Farmer wrote: ..the kind of people flying solo and doing 'their stuff' mostly have a limited time window only for the game and would like to enjoy this time to the fullest - within a ruthless sci-fi-environment. Your proposal to field crews on ships does not make sense in that regard, as this would need coordination and more importantly - trust. Take another shower... I think you misunderstand. Crews would be NPCs not human controlled. Therefore would not require anymore coordination. At least that's my vision for it. - A.Mobius
Tiberius Sunstealer Phantom Soulreavers 53	Posted - 2012.01.17 02:58:00 - [12] - Quote Anika Mobius wrote: it is simply how IGÇÖd like to see the EVE Universe change to best suit my vision how it should be. Stopped reading there. It's a good thing I did seeing how you just built a massive wall of text.
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:01:00 - [13] - Quote Tiberius Sunstealer wrote: Anika Mobius wrote: it is simply how IGÇÖd like to see the EVE Universe change to best suit my vision how it should be. Stopped reading there. It's a good thing I did seeing how you just built a massive wall of text. Luckily this is a letter to the developers of EVE Online and not you. - A.Mobius
Tiberius Sunstealer Phantom Soulreavers 53	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:05:00 - [14] - Quote Anika Mobius wrote: Luckily this is a letter to the developers of EVE Online and not you. Do you really think they're going to read it? You admitted yourself that your idea is selfish. It is your vision. Not CCP's vision. Not the vision of the community. Your vision. By the way, you do know you can call the developers of EVE Online by name, right? Repeat after me: CCP.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service 40	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:05:00 - [15] - Quote Anika Mobius wrote: Tres Farmer wrote: ..the kind of people flying solo and doing 'their stuff' mostly have a limited time window only for the game and would like to enjoy this time to the fullest - within a ruthless sci-fi-environment. Your proposal to field crews on ships does not make sense in that regard, as this would need coordination and more importantly - trust. Take another shower... I think you misunderstand. Crews would be NPCs not human controlled. Therefore would not require anymore coordination. At least that's my vision for it. Uh, right.. aehm.. so, you want to introduce 'power ups' for ships that are harder to trade (which is against the core of eve btw) to 'vitalize' mission running? Also, rigs already work that way somewhat.. you run missions, get stuff, convert it into power up parts to hardwire them to your ship and if it gets blown up, they're gone.
Meryl SinGarda Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team 313	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:12:00 - [16] - Quote Are you trying to get this published? Fly Safe, Die Hard As stated by a fellow player, Mara Rinn, "EVE is not an internet spaceships game. It's a game of politics, subterfuge, capitalism, empire building and trust."-á
Rory Orlenard University of Caille Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:17:00 - [17] - Quote I read 90% of that ...whew. Some good ideas but leave the probing alone, it works well and as intended. Eve doesn't have to conform to real world physics any more then the Universe has to take on the properties of the mathmatics we humans use to describe it with. I have previously put forth the idea of CCP supplied bots, ones where you earned the LP to spend on a bot that could only be operated for a limited number of hours and harvested less then a real player - it didn't go over well. But I would like to encourage you to run for CSM this year - you obviously care about the game and think of it.
Sverige Pahis Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation 597	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:18:00 - [18] - Quote tl;dr
Tiberius Sunstealer Phantom Soulreavers 53	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:26:00 - [19] - Quote Sverige Pahis wrote: tl;dr tl;dr Version: Crew Members: Rigs 0.5 where you level them up by having your ship docked. Deadspace: I really had no idea what Anika was rambling on about. There were words put together but they had no meaning. I think Anika is trying to allow people to gank in deadspace and not allow you to warp out of deadspace. T3: Make all T3 ships use their modules like rigs ie. they cannot be removed. F2P: Make EVE F2P with all F2P having limitations. PTAL: Have boosters that increase SP/H by 50% and allow two to be applied at a time. PLEX: Reduce PLEX prices. [*] Bots: CCP makes mining bots.
Jack Tronic borkedLabs 30	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:51:00 - [20] - Quote Quote: LetGÇÖs talk T3 battleships and ship modules. It is, and has been, my opinion that there should be benefits for hard welding modules to a ship such that that ship is no longer flexible. This is what I think T3 battleships should be. IGÇÖd recommend giving them a significant boost to performance with the drawback at removing ship modules from the ship destroys the modules. The same should be true of T3 ship modules as well: once fitted to a ship they cannot be unfit without being destroyed. This would make them rare and therefore valuable; in addition it would require the use of large amount of minerals to keep the consumer population happy thus offsetting the CCP provided mining bot. T3s are and will always be produced from WSPACE, minerals are barely required.
ACE McFACE Acetech Systems 538	Posted - 2012.01.17 03:59:00 - [21] - Quote Quote: This is an open letter to the developers of EVE Online [the game] Quote: The only compelling reasons to complete missions that I know of are the in game currency reward [ISK] Quote: Open Letter to the Developers of EVE Online [CCP] Quote: This means that the only way to make mining enjoyable is to violate the end user license agreement [EULA] Quote: I have seen obvious usage of automated mining tools [bots] Why do you feel the need to tell us that one of the rewards for doing missions is ISK, or that the developers of EVE are CCP? Its assumed you know this, after all this is the EVE forums, you're not explaining the game to someone who has never played before. Also Features and Ideas [F&I] not General Discussion [GD] See what I did there?? Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt!
Anika Mobius British Legion NE CEDE MALIS. 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 04:05:00 - [22] - Quote Tiberius Sunstealer wrote: Sverige Pahis wrote: tl;dr tl;dr Version: Crew Members: Rigs 0.5 where you level them up by having your ship docked. Deadspace: I really had no idea what Anika was rambling on about. There were words put together but they had no meaning. I think Anika is trying to allow people to gank in deadspace and not allow you to warp out of deadspace. T3: Make all T3 ships use their modules like rigs ie. they cannot be removed. F2P: Make EVE F2P with all F2P having limitations. PTAL: Have boosters that increase SP/H by 50% and allow two to be applied at a time. PLEX: Reduce PLEX prices. Bots: CCP makes mining bots. Might be the most misleading summary I've seen in years. Thanks for trying, but I suppose I should summarize this myself for the "too long; didn't read" crowd. Crew: New type of "module" that cannot be purchased or traded and can only be aquired by convincing them to join you. Crew would cost ISK monthly (as salary) regardless of account state. Crew would add bonsues similar to how rigs work today and could improve over time so long as they're assigned to an active ship on an active account. Change deadspace so that mission ganking is more difficult. Make fleeing from mission more difficult to compensate. T3 Ships and Modules recommendation: make them powerful, but fit once like Rigs. Make EVE's pricing tiered. Allow players to pay more money to train faster. Enable a F2P mode which only allows a couple of hours a day of game/training time. CCP Mining Bots: Time for CCP to **** or get off the pot on the bot situation. Either make thier own bot that only paying accounts can use or start getting serious about stopping EULA breaking bot usage. I think that's generally it. It's getting late on my end, so I might have missed something. - A.Mobius
ACE McFACE Acetech Systems 538	Posted - 2012.01.17 04:26:00 - [23] - Quote Anika Mobius wrote: Make EVE's pricing tiered. Allow players to pay more money to train faster. Enable a F2P mode which only allows a couple of hours a day of game/training time. Definatly not this Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt!
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 875	Posted - 2012.01.17 04:27:00 - [24] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: Features and Ideas forum is that way --> edit: Holy walls of text Batman! eek! all that text in a GD post... this will not do at all The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
seany1212 eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 68	Posted - 2012.01.17 04:29:00 - [25] - Quote Don't let the door hit you and your terrible ideas in the butt on your way out. Also, never resub... Crews are a dumb idea, next you'll want to be able to fly fleets of ships instead of just one because you have crews, get more alts = crews. If you want mission ganking to be more difficult, take a logi in with you, you chose to tank your ship with ridiculously expensive mods for a mission that choses to pay out what? 10 million a turn in? Now if you were taking that ship fitting into a 6/10 guristas plex that dropped a pithum A-type 1.5billion isk shield booster i'd understand it . Tech 3 cruisers are meant to be modular, period and they are powerful, are you flying them with your eyes closed? You deserve a slap for suggesting F2P considering all the protesting for NO F2P, your either trolling with this entire, long written post or just oblivious to how eve work and has done. ONE thing i'll agree on, but i still consider your idea for CCP to make there own bots to be ridiculous, why would they make something that can be potentially game breaking. Get back in the shower and think of more ideas, you haven't started to prune yet
Jason McCoy Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 18	Posted - 2012.01.17 04:36:00 - [26] - Quote you fellas actually read that? what is this thread about? moving along . . .
Xercodo Train Brigade 789	Posted - 2012.01.17 06:04:00 - [27] - Quote Anika Mobius wrote: This morning in the shower, Admit it, some of you stopped reading right there and started fapping.... The Drake is a Lie
Jita Alt666 864	Posted - 2012.01.17 06:13:00 - [28] - Quote I commend you on your efforts in writing a comprehensive assessment on your feelings toward Eve Online. However I think you may find that many here disagree strongly with F2P (pay to win) and artificial botting.
Valei Khurelem 172	Posted - 2012.01.17 06:30:00 - [29] - Quote Oh look, someone spent lots of effort writing down their idea to the fullest and immediately the troll brigade comes along to bash it without even reading it all the way through. Well done EVE playerbase, you've actually made me feel sorry for you because of how pathetic you've become, now I hope this game really does die a slow and painful death because it deserves it.
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 211	Posted - 2012.01.17 06:48:00 - [30] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Oh look, someone spent lots of effort writing down their idea to the fullest and immediately the troll brigade comes along to bash it without even reading it all the way through. Well done EVE playerbase, you've actually made me feel sorry for you because of how pathetic you've become, now I hope this game really does die a slow and painful death because it deserves it. Contract your stuff and unsub with OP. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39006524/DumbHiseccers.jpg
Ai Shun 134	Posted - 2012.01.17 06:48:00 - [31] - Quote Anika Mobius wrote: Crew: New type of "module" that cannot be purchased or traded and can only be aquired by convincing them to join you. Crew would cost ISK monthly (as salary) regardless of account state. Crew would add bonsues similar to how rigs work today and could improve over time so long as they're assigned to an active ship on an active account. Change deadspace so that mission ganking is more difficult. Make fleeing from mission more difficult to compensate. T3 Ships and Modules recommendation: make them powerful, but fit once like Rigs. Make EVE's pricing tiered. Allow players to pay more money to train faster. Enable a F2P mode which only allows a couple of hours a day of game/training time. CCP Mining Bots: Time for CCP to **** or get off the pot on the bot situation. Either make thier own bot that only paying accounts can use or start getting serious about stopping EULA breaking bot usage. I think that's generally it. It's getting late on my end, so I might have missed something. F2P? Bots? Please no. I can see why you unsubscribe from EVE frequently though.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1557	Posted - 2012.01.17 07:08:00 - [32] - Quote get the **** out get your F2P nonsense out of here
ACE McFACE Acetech Systems 538	Posted - 2012.01.17 07:16:00 - [33] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Oh look, someone spent lots of effort writing down their idea to the fullest and immediately the troll brigade comes along to bash it without even reading it all the way through. Well done EVE playerbase, you've actually made me feel sorry for you because of how pathetic you've become, now I hope this game really does die a slow and painful death because it deserves it. You didnt read this part did you? Quote: CCP Mining Bots: Time for CCP to ** or get off the pot on the bot situation. Either make thier own bot that only paying accounts can use** or start getting serious about stopping EULA breaking bot usage. I obviously agree with the need for CCP to crack down on bots, but that should be the only option Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt!
Cyaxares II The Waterworks 20	Posted - 2012.01.17 07:33:00 - [34] - Quote Solo players are less likely to generate content/social interactions that will make current players stay in the game. I guess they are also less likely to recruit new players into the game. If CCP invests some money to make a socially connected and active player happy they'll get a higher multiplier on that investment than if they spend the same amount of money on a solo player.
Valei Khurelem 172	Posted - 2012.01.17 07:37:00 - [35] - Quote Quote: I obviously agree with the need for CCP to crack down on bots, but that should be the only option sorry, but as long as the gameplay is autonomous and repetitive, bots will always exist and saying that actual players can't use them is just spiteful and pathetic when we already know thousands of other users are blatantly using them for their own ends.
Ludi Burek The Player Haters Corp 16	Posted - 2012.01.17 07:57:00 - [36] - Quote I wish people would stop it with their self indulgent ideas and visions. Contract teh stuff and get out!
Valei Khurelem 172	Posted - 2012.01.17 07:57:00 - [37] - Quote Ludi Burek wrote: I wish people would stop it with their self indulgent ideas and visions. Contract teh stuff and get out! Gladly, let me just charge you 1 billion ISK for it :)
Levija Saplina Supremacy Inc. Not Found. 59	Posted - 2012.01.17 08:06:00 - [38] - Quote Mobius 1 this is Mobius 2, we have a new target.
Alpheias Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 417	Posted - 2012.01.17 08:13:00 - [39] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Oh look, someone spent lots of effort writing down their idea to the fullest and immediately the troll brigade comes along to bash it without even reading it all the way through. Well done EVE playerbase, you've actually made me feel sorry for you because of how pathetic you've become, now I hope this game really does die a slow and painful death because it deserves it. Oh look, a wild white knight appears! (while I am sure the gesture is appreciated, I wouldn't keep my hopes up that the OP is a girl if I were you) I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more
Valei Khurelem 172	Posted - 2012.01.17 08:15:00 - [40] - Quote lol @ Alpheias No one likes an ***** and unlike the EVE player base I don't really consider it okay to be one just because CCP don't ban people for it, way to give in to peer pressure. As for that comment on girls on the internet? I ALWAYS assume people I meet on the internet are guys, makes life easier. p.s. That goes for you too, I'm pretty sure there's a ** under that dress
Alpheias Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 417	Posted - 2012.01.17 08:27:00 - [41] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: lol @ Alpheias No one likes an ***** and unlike the EVE player base I don't really consider it okay to be one just because CCP don't ban people for it, as for that comment on girls on the internet? I ALWAYS assume people I meet on the internet are guys, makes life easier. p.s. That goes for you too, I'm pretty sure there's a ** under that dress By those words, one has to assume your dating history on the internet has not been great. Or since you assume everyone online are guys, then perhaps it has! ps. pics or it didn't happen? I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more
Jowen Datloran Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 271	Posted - 2012.01.17 09:13:00 - [42] - Quote As a solo player for nine years and counting I can only strongly disagree that there is not enough content for that style to play around with. And FtP? That is something for second rate games or games that are turning second rate. No need to go there. Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á
Solstice Project Cult of Personality 1263	Posted - 2012.01.17 10:14:00 - [43] - Quote If you know that well what customers want, you should open up a game company and get rich yourself. And have fun with the "broader audience" full of idiots. lol Jowen Datloran wrote: As a solo player for nine years and counting I can only strongly disagree that there is not enough content for that style to play around with. And FtP? That is something for second rate games or games that are turning second rate. No need to go there. And this. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire
Tiberius Sunstealer Phantom Soulreavers 54	Posted - 2012.01.17 10:35:00 - [44] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Oh look, someone spent lots of effort writing down their idea to the fullest and immediately the troll brigade comes along to bash it without even reading it all the way through. Put it this way. I hope OP is trolling. If they aren't and sincerely think these ideas are good, they are clinically ********.
My Postman Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2012.01.17 10:47:00 - [45] - Quote Holy wall of text. Anyway, well thought and good written, worth reading. Some good ideas included. +1 Intertetz for you, Sir.
Ryans Revenge Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation 34	Posted - 2012.01.17 11:01:00 - [46] - Quote I got about a third down that until I saw it turn into a "bring crews into eve" thread and abandoned it. I do however agree that solo is a lot less enjoyable nowadays. To me the introduction of anomalies has stopped the nullsec solo roamer catching nice kills and such as you now have to scan them down then work out which one they are at and by the time you get there they are long gone. There are many things that have reduced solo play over the last 3 years but I believe this is the main on for me personally. Along with the nano nerf obviously but that's not such a big deal as it can be overcome with ship choice / proper piloting.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 45	Posted - 2012.01.17 11:03:00 - [47] - Quote Quote: Second, enable tiers of services for players capable and willing to spend more money on their past time. For example, I recommend that CPP allow players to pay an extra $10 to purchase a 30-Day Pilot Training Accelerator License [PTAL] which can be used to increase their characterGÇÖs learning speed by 50%, or be sold on the in game market for ISK. Perhaps even allow two PTALs to be applied to a single character at a time, effectively doubling the characters skill point accrual for 30 days. Sell Pilot License [PLEX] in various denominations. 15-day for US$10, 30-day for US$15, and 90-day US$40 seem the most logical denominations to me. This will allow players short on cash to continue their characterGÇÖs development on a reduced budget; and allow those players who have the capacity to spend the additional money on a CCP product. This would also make the in game economy more fluid as the diversity of PLEX products increased and players could make choices based on their bet as to which products will best maintain their in game value relative to the real world cost. When a game has gone to such great lengths to develop such a balanced skill system, so everyone is on the same playing field wether they can play for 10 hours a day or 2 hours in the evening, or they choose to grindgrindgrind or simply cruise the universe looking at the sights...... Why the hell would you ruin it by allowing people with more money in RL have such an insanely huge benefit over those who dont. With that one paragraph, you have shown such an ignorant view of Eve, I wish you had put it at the start of the letter so I would not have had to bother reading the rest! Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors 314	Posted - 2012.01.17 11:06:00 - [48] - Quote I got through most of your OP before my eyes glazed over and skimmed the rest (let's be honest, it's not that I can't read essays and walls of text... it's just that I don't enjoy doing it... especially on a GAME FORUM... and it isn't something particularly interesting/facetious). Quite basically you are looking for a game that seems like EVE, but isn't. I don't often say this... but EVE is not for you. "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown

CCP Phantom C C P C C P Alliance 931	Posted - 2012.01.17 11:22:00 - [49] - Quote Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you. Moved from General Discussion. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator

Nel Gardier Time Sync 50	Posted - 2012.01.17 11:24:00 - [50] - Quote Whoa, whoa, whoa! Can you go back to that bit about you being in the shower?
Xorv Questionable Acquisitions 45	Posted - 2012.01.17 11:37:00 - [51] - Quote I like to play solo and often find EVE to be stacked against soloers more so than any other MMO I've played. However, none of your ideas interest or benefit me in how I play or would like to play solo in EVE. I wouldn't object to CCP going further in dealing with botting though, but that's a separate issue.
WAuter DUTCH MINING SQUAD 0	Posted - 2012.01.17 15:33:00 - [52] - Quote I do agree mining needs a serieus buff (or all the other professions a serieus nerf), in high sec with 2 hulks and decent skills i can only make a maximum of 10mill/h.. If i'm doing level 4 missions then i get between 20 and 40 mill/h.. Mining in lowsec, wormholes and 0.0 is suicide and the benefits are not worth risking 2 hulks aka 440mill ISK, not to mention the orca (450mill). Living in 0.0 and wormhole space is fun and more rewarding* if you can spend several hours a day online... I can't cuz i have to spend time in something called RL too. *more rewarding than empire but still not as rewarding as doing plexes and ratting in 0.0 or doing missions in empire! Wormholes pay off if you have a lot of time on your hands... So yes mineral prices should skyrocket or otherwise it's a waste of time..
Jak'at Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 5	Posted - 2012.01.17 15:53:00 - [53] - Quote Unfortunately, they do not care if you de-sub your account because you are frustrated with bots. EVE can't figure out to maintain a player-base so they have refocused 90% of their efforts towards aesthetically pleasing new potential subscribers. They don't care if you desub because these BOTS you hate so much realistically put more money into their pockets than you, the single player does. Until CCP can figure out how to actually please it's playerbase instead of just having fun with all of their toys making things look cool, they probably won't seriously decide to crack down on automation-players and RMT. After all, those annoyances are paying their bills and salaries.
Mars Theran EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance 62	Posted - 2012.01.17 16:53:00 - [54] - Quote cripes.. I thought this was necro, and it's been written today. Umm.. where do I start? I agree, in that I think you should go back and have a shower to rethink this. Drop your sub for awhile and take some time away from the game, if you think that will help. I've done it in the past myself on a number of occaisions. Tiered Subs are not really the way to go I think; though I am fairly certain there is another alternative. Currently EVE ranks among the highest pay per month subscriptions that I am aware of. Interesting note: I downloaded Rift and checked on my old account yesterday. What I found kind of surprised me: I still had 3 days left, and I hadn't played since release. I'd forgotten that Rift only counts in-game time towards subscriptions; so, if you don't play, it doesn't get used. Might help to explain why it is so popular. Wouldn't work for EVE because of the skill system of course. Automated mining is not a horrible idea. A lot of people have been posting similar ideas lately. Really, it would be nice if CCP could remove the bots though; because we all know a healthy economy depends on it being player driven. Unfortunately, it is not, and that is why it is so borked. Mining is not fun. It isn't however rediculously boring either. It is just work that is less fulfilling than it should be. I don't mine unless another player wants me to do a mining op with them; and even then, I hesitate and hope for local to spike in that brief moment. Honestly, if it payed better I wouldn't mind it. Spending wads of ISK on ships that have all the survivability of a puppy in a sewer; when it takes two weeks to get a return on the investment, isn't my idea of fun. Mining is fun for people who haven't yet realized that you're more likely to lose scads of ISK than make it. Mining barge argument is lame. Covetor costs ~ 20 million and won't often survive the 7 hours to recover it. Add another 3-5 hours for fittings to that in addition. It's like 1-2 million per hour to mine with a barge in highsec last I checked; mayby 3 with a Covetor and good skills. Survival rate goes down from there, and we all know how good it is in Highsec. Those are what I see as somewhat valid points; the former, (subs), because we potentially lose a number of good players to monthly costs. Economy being what it is, I know a few friends of mine have dropped subs for that very reason. They were all in the US; which has suffered a lot in recent years, with regards to work shortages. The fact that multi-subscriptions for, (i.e: "how to play EVE properly"), managing broader spectrum training and leverage in game, increases that cost substantially doesn't help. Neither does the fact that many players who haven't the time or inclination to grind; either bot or PLEX their way to power. Add to that members of big Alliances and small Corporations funding wars, SuperCarriers, Titans, and Capitals with PLEX; as well as many other things, just to maintain some competative edge in game, and we have a costly enterprise. Not saying this is super-common; but it does happen. I myself funded part of my last corps ventures with ISK from selling PLEX and characters; my original main and specially trained alts included. I got some back eventually, but unfortunately met misfortune with that damn market trick to the order of 4.5 billion, and wasted a great deal on testing PvP, and setting up my Alliance, as well as Corp Standings and other things. Now I'm wasting what remains on PvP again, with no real means of making more. Not unless I plan to gring Missions to level 4, then grind level 4's indefinitely. Mining isn't going to do it, and being a Null slave is somewhat ludicrous as a means of making ISK. Having ship replacement available might make it worth it; for those ships you lose in Alliance sanctioned PvP. I'd still swear I've read almost this exact same post, along with pretty much the same responses somewhere.
betoli Morior Invictus. Velocitas Eradico 14	Posted - 2012.01.17 21:42:00 - [55] - Quote Mars Theran wrote: Mining is not fun. It isn't however rediculously boring either. Neither is tetris ;-) The problem with the PVE content in Eve is it presents little or no variation. Mining is financially unrewarding, but actually more risky than missioning to a non-noob. Go figure. There are a few simple fixes that could be done; a random element in spawns that mean even the most pimped ships stand a chance of loss. Splitting high-sec belts into tiers, with higher (rat) risk, higher reward belts. I know there is some variation between sec status, but its poor. Fundamentally botting happens because of deterministic gameplay, which means it can be performed deterministically. Mining is the perfect example of this, you simply don't need to pass the Turing test to do it, it needs a major reworking. Its one of the fundamental sources of stuff, and yet it gets the least love and is the least mentally challenging. As for the other stuff... generally no. I'd rather see plex leave the game completely. I could see that a F2P mode could have a role. If you don't have an active account, however you should a) get no skill points, b) get no bounties, c) get no LP d) can't cloak and e) can only fly ships available in trial periods - I think its OK to let people log in and fly around a bit, so long as their primary contribution is as a target. :-)
ACE McFACE Acetech Systems 541	Posted - 2012.01.17 22:18:00 - [56] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Quote: I obviously agree with the need for CCP to crack down on bots, but that should be the only option Sorry, but as long as the gameplay is autonomous and repetitive, bots will always exist and saying that actual players can't use them is just spiteful and pathetic when we already know thousands of other users are blatantly using them for their own ends. As far as I'm concerned the people who would be against making bots legal are the same sort who think using exploits and bots are okay to stay on a level playing field with everyone else, granted this isn't strictly true for everyone but it amazes me they never talk about how boring the grind is to think they're completely innocent. You won't be able to justify the banning of bots if you don't have a fun game, we already see many examples in real life where simply legalising currently illegal activities and regulating it instead to make it safe would actually bring more benefit to the people involved than keeping it illegal would. If CCP made bots legal then they would not only get more money from the accounts but players like me would be happier because stuff like mining wouldn't actually be so tedious anymore so we might actually be able to go some way to enjoying the game rather than logging off every hour or so after finishing because it gets so boring. If you don't enjoy the game why do you keep paying to play? And don't say: "I don't pay, I use PLEX." Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt!

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