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Petition- Devs, please nerf nerfing

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Takashi Setsu	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:07:00 - [1] With all due respect to CCP, this nerf fest is ridiculous. People get killed by something a few times and then start spamming the forums to get the setup nerfed. So the setup gets nerfed and the ship that was at the top of the food chain goes to the middle or bottom. Then another ship takes its place as the best killer, and as any good killer does it kills people. Then those people get on the forums and say: "OMG, I've been killed 16,428 times by a (insert: nano, damping, nosing, blaster........) setup. This is obviously not fair as this complex math problem (insert math) demonstrates. The game is not balanced. Please fix or I will cancel my subscription and pull out my hair." Then, the devs listen. Not that listening is a bad thing, it is the sign of a good company to care about it subscribers. But this is getting out of control. The Nos nerf has devestated the pilgrim and gimped the curse. And threads are already appearing that would nerf the arazu, lachesis or nano-ishtar. The problem with nerfing is that it is a viscious cycle. It will never stop. There will always be better ships. There will always be "i-win" botton setups. One setup will always be at the top, it will always kill people and people will always hate being killed. Why punish players for inventing creative setups capable of killing less creative setups?
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:12:00 - [2] The worst part is once a handful of whiners start whining the bandwagoners start hearing it's a good ship "from all the whiners". That makes the whined about ship the flavor "that's right, I'm US, no u for me tyvm" of the month. Now that everyone and their dog uses this ship they REALLY start whining even though the destruction is mostly because of the masses of bandwagoners rather then the actual strength of the ship. ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:15:00 - [3] Edited by: sov68n on 01/09/2007 17:16:07 applauds VERY loudly I think what people need to realize is that this is a game of imbalances, there is always a way around something, always a way to kill another ship, and always a way to avoid death. but some would rather have the people who actually put thought into EVE be punished for it so they can be lazy and not have to come up with setups, or train any skills, or who want to be able to have the simplest most straightforward setup go unchallenged by anything. STOP WHINING FOR NERFS/BOOSTS EVE COMMUNITY!!!! a Dev will soon come along and nerf this thread, showing how much CCP in fact does like nerfing things. But I actually hope a dev will respond to this, that would be interesting. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
Takashi Setsu	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:15:00 - [4] Democracy's greatest flaw is a flock mentality. Too bad we cant nerf trends.
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:19:00 - [5] Originally by: Takashi Setsu Democracy's greatest flaw is a flock mentality. Too bad we cant nerf trends. I think what is needed is for EVE to stay the way it is. forever. and if these people who cant adapt want to stop playing and go pull out their hair, i say good, because those types of people don't belong in EVE. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
L33t Sphere	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:19:00 - [6] End nerfing.
Takashi Setsu	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:21:00 - [7] I don't think EvE shouldn't change. Change is a good thing. But going back to your work with a eraser over and over to change things is a little backwards. Lets look forward not backward.
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:24:00 - [8] I actually know of a ship + setup that's more evasive then a vagabond, has even better control of the fight too, also doesn't have the weakness of being webbed by an even faster/smaller ship "actually it make VERY short work of ceptors", and doesn't have tracking issues at full speed. Yet you've almost certainly never heard of it because it's never been flavor of the month. P.S. No I will not disclose what ship + setup i'm talking about. ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Takashi Setsu I don't think EvE shouldn't change. Change is a good thing. But going back to your work with a eraser over and over to change things is a little backwards. Lets look forward not backward. well i didnt mean like, never change in the form of market fluxes, 0.0 territory struggles, new ships and modules being introduced, and different setups becoming popular at different times. I meant no more nerfs/boosts. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
Takashi Setsu	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:27:00 - [10] It's not an ishtar of some type is it?

Kyreax Deepspace Exploration Biscuit Repair Associates	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:45:00 - [11] Nerf Templars! --------------------------------------------------- It's a Templar, an Amarr Fighter used by Carriers.
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Kyreax Nerf Templars! why would you nerf a fighter??? --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.09.01 19:42:00 - [13] CCP is balancing the game...... that is all. Nos was nerfed... so what, fit neuts. It was too good to be true anyways.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.01 19:58:00 - [14] Originally by: sov68n Originally by: Kyreax Nerf Templars! why would you nerf a fighter??? templar is an amarrian fighter. --- truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players" Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: sov68n Originally by: Kyreax Nerf Templars! why would you nerf a fighter??? templar is an amarrian fighter. ya i know, but why would u nerf it just cuz its amarrian... oh wait... lol i get it.... i think.... --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
Kulmid New Justice	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:03:00 - [16] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: sov68n Originally by: Kyreax Nerf Templars! why would you nerf a fighter??? templar is an amarrian fighter. Used by Carriers.
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: sov68n Originally by: Kyreax Nerf Templars! why would you nerf a fighter??? templar is an amarrian fighter. Used by Carriers. wtf are you ppl driving at? --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
Thorek Ironbrow	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:09:00 - [18] I hate nerfs but I do like boosts, as long as it only affects a ships capacity to kill ships it's already good at killing.
Kulmid New Justice	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:10:00 - [19] Originally by: sov68n Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: sov68n Originally by: Kyreax Nerf Templars! why would you nerf a fighter??? templar is an amarrian fighter. Used by Carriers. wtf are you ppl driving at? Linkage
Mona X Caldari C0VEN	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:11:00 - [20] Originally by: sov68n wtf are you ppl driving at? A very old joke.

Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:15:00 - [21] Originally by: DubanFP I actually know of a ship + setup that's more evasive then a vagabond, has even better control of the fight too, also doesn't have the weakness of being webbed by an even faster/smaller ship "actually it make VERY short work of ceptors", and doesn't have tracking issues at full speed. Yet you've almost certainly never heard of it because it's never been flavor of the month. P.S. No I will not disclose what ship + setup i'm talking about. THIS is smart. The real intelligence does not only lie in finding a great setup, it lies in keeping that setup to yourself as much as possible. Every nerf begins by some ingenious mind discovering some very powerful setup. This is not a cause for nerfing. But eventually he either brags about it (silly), or other people find out on their own and spread it, or maybe its just found by killmail analysis. And the plague spreads. After that point it is NOT smart anymore to fit your ship after the fotm. In fact it is the opposite imho. And that is where nerfing comes in. It actually supports the intelligent players to find out new overpowered stuff and use it. While the crowd in the cookie cutters is left behind at least for a while. So of course they object to nerfing. Basically nerfing is good for smart players, and not so good for the herd. Of course many nerf cries are indeed unreasonable. But some of them have a very solid foundation, and I am more than willing to endure unneccessary whines for those to go through. Fix speedtanks, base hit chance on agility!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Mona X Originally by: sov68n wtf are you ppl driving at? A very old joke. ah it's still funny anyways about what the op said: not signed until they nerf players. --- truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players" Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:52:00 - [23] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 01/09/2007 21:53:02 Every, single, balance change since Castor, has made for a better game. And no, random 'forum whining' did not contribute to the changes. You may choose to interpret it as whining, when in fact, every change has had extensive, proper discussion, both with the player base and internally at CCP (some times for months on end), and (most) people (i'm guessing you aren't one?) can see how; Large turrets hitting everything equally, Drones bbq'ing everything at any range, Dual MWD's on everything missiles popping everything, extreme damage on everything, ECM on everything, extreme speed setups, extreme vampire setups ...are not good for the game. The only time 'forum whining' has altered the course of something was the proposed chance based propulsion jamming mechanics, but even then there was appropriate discussion pointing out the flaws... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 23:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 01/09/2007 21:53:02 Every, single, balance change since Castor, has made for a better game. And no, random 'forum whining' did not contribute to the changes. You may choose to interpret it as whining, when in fact, every change has had extensive, proper discussion, both with the player base and internally at CCP (some times for months on end), and (most) people (i'm guessing you aren't one?) can see how; Large turrets hitting everything equally, Drones bbq'ing everything at any range, Dual MWD's on everything missiles popping everything, extreme damage on everything, ECM on everything, extreme speed setups, extreme vampire setups ...are not good for the game. The only time 'forum whining' has altered the course of something was the proposed chance based propulsion jamming mechanics, but even then there was appropriate discussion pointing out the flaws... well as time has shown, most overpowered ships go as a trend, they fade off as the most powerful ship, even those that werent forced off the top by a nerf, so if you just give it time the ship that omgwtfbbqs you because you are too lazy to adapt to it will go away and another ship will come and omgwtfbbq you and then you might be tempted to actually adapt to it. And posts like this(quoted from OP ): "OMG, I've been killed 16,428 times by a (insert: nano, damping, nosing, blaster........) setup. This is obviously not fair as this complex math problem (insert math) demonstrates. The game is not balanced. Please fix or I will cancel my subscription and pull out my hair." have no place on the forums as they are simply whines. educated, informed posts that clearly demonstrate the facts in a clear concise method and urge the EVE community to DISCUSS THE ISSUE as opposed to begging CCP for a nerf/boost are what should bring about the changes. also, the nerfs lately have been rather frequent, and quite devastating, in the case of the curse and pilgrim. all I would ask is that the devs not shake the nerf stick around as much as they do, because eventually all the ships and mods in the game will be underpowered. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.01 23:09:00 - [25] Originally by: Thorek Ironbrow I hate nerfs but I do like boosts, as long as it only affects a ships capacity to kill ships it's already good at killing. especially the recent boost to Caldari cap ship CPU, that one makes me happy. ****es Thanatos pilots off though, cuz they cant be content with the fact that they have 20,000m3 more of drone capacity. Losers. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.09.01 23:53:00 - [26] It is an age old MMO problem. I use Rock, Scissors are fine. NERF PAPER! What ****es me off about eve whiners is that you can train for rocks, paper AND scissors. Unlike other MMO's where you are stuck with the class/race/whatever you pick. I do not like nerfs and would prefere a counter was added rather than a powerfull ship/module/rig/whatever nerfed into the stoneage.
wictro FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.02 01:17:00 - [27] Originally by: MITSUK0 It is an age old MMO problem. I use Rock, Scissors are fine. NERF PAPER! What ***es me off about eve whiners is that you can train for rocks, paper AND scissors. Unlike other MMO's where you are stuck with the class/race/whatever you pick. I do not like nerfs and would prefere a counter was added rather than a powerfull ship/module/rig/whatever nerfed into the stoneage. god damn dude! you summed it up _perfectly_! wic raises hat, a toast and your wage!* /thread done, as all other nerf threads too.
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.02 01:28:00 - [28] Originally by: wictro Originally by: MITSUK0 It is an age old MMO problem. I use Rock, Scissors are fine. NERF PAPER! What ***es me off about eve whiners is that you can train for rocks, paper AND scissors. Unlike other MMO's where you are stuck with the class/race/whatever you pick. I do not like nerfs and would prefere a counter was added rather than a powerfull ship/module/rig/whatever nerfed into the stoneage. god damn dude! you summed it up _perfectly_! wic raises hat, a toast and your wage!* /thread done, as all other nerf threads too. OMG IT'S A BoB!!! KILL IT!!! --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
wictro FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.02 01:32:00 - [29] Originally by: sov68n OMG IT'S A BoB!!! KILL IT!!! how do you kill something... ...that has no life ;)
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.02 01:36:00 - [30] Originally by: wictro how do you kill something... ...that has no life ;) so BoB is just a bunch of nerds with no life? makes sense. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!

wictro	Posted - 2007.09.02 01:42:00 - [31] Edited by: wictro on 02/09/2007 01:48:59 EDIT: you're not worth my time.
sov68n Caldari RABBLE-RABBLE Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.02 03:59:00 - [32] Originally by: wictro Edited by: wictro on 02/09/2007 01:48:59 EDIT: you're not worth my time. lol you removed your corp/alliance display, rofl loser. --- the KOS killboards nerfed our kill sigs!!!
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.09.02 04:01:00 - [33] Originally by: sov68n Originally by: wictro Edited by: wictro on 02/09/2007 01:48:59 EDIT: you're not worth my time. lol you removed your corp/alliance display, rofl loser. lulz u r liek so 1337 Grow up
Balcura	Posted - 2007.09.02 04:22:00 - [34] Originally by: sov68n Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 01/09/2007 21:53:02 Every, single, balance change since Castor, has made for a better game. And no, random 'forum whining' did not contribute to the changes. You may choose to interpret it as whining, when in fact, every change has had extensive, proper discussion, both with the player base and internally at CCP (some times for months on end), and (most) people (i'm guessing you aren't one?) can see how; Large turrets hitting everything equally, Drones bbq'ing everything at any range, Dual MWD's on everything missiles popping everything, extreme damage on everything, ECM on everything, extreme speed setups, extreme vampire setups ...are not good for the game. The only time 'forum whining' has altered the course of something was the proposed chance based propulsion jamming mechanics, but even then there was appropriate discussion pointing out the flaws... well as time has shown, most overpowered ships go as a trend, they fade off as the most powerful ship, even those that werent forced off the top by a nerf, so if you just give it time the ship that omgwtfbbqs you because you are too lazy to adapt to it will go away and another ship will come and omgwtfbbq you and then you might be tempted to actually adapt to it. And posts like this(quoted from OP ): "OMG, I've been killed 16,428 times by a (insert: nano, damping, nosing, blaster........) setup. This is obviously not fair as this complex math problem (insert math) demonstrates. The game is not balanced. Please fix or I will cancel my subscription and pull out my hair." have no place on the forums as they are simply whines. educated, informed posts that clearly demonstrate the facts in a clear concise method and urge the EVE community to DISCUSS THE ISSUE as opposed to begging CCP for a nerf/boost are what should bring about the changes. also, the nerfs lately have been rather frequent, and quite devastating, in the case of the curse and pilgrim. all I would ask is that the devs not shake the nerf stick around as much as they do, because eventually all the ships and mods in the game will be underpowered. A lot of the "flavor of the month" ships have been created with changes to the game system making a particular setup or combination of modules difficult to overcome. The NOS nerf was one of the best changes I've seen in this game, now a BS will need to spend cap to totally wipe out an interceptor instead of not having to pay for the capability of wiping out smaller ship instantly. Neuts have a built in counter... it takes cap, but I agree with this more. I always prefer a counter to a nerf EVERYDAY. Originally by: MITSUK0 It is an age old MMO problem. I use Rock, Scissors are fine. NERF PAPER! What ****es me off about eve whiners is that you can train for rocks, paper AND scissors. Unlike other MMO's where you are stuck with the class/race/whatever you pick. I do not like nerfs and would prefere a counter was added rather than a powerfull ship/module/rig/whatever nerfed into the stoneage.
Aries Acheron Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.02 07:25:00 - [35] Originally by: DubanFP I actually know of a ship + setup that's more evasive then a vagabond, has even better control of the fight too, also doesn't have the weakness of being webbed by an even faster/smaller ship "actually it make VERY short work of ceptors", and doesn't have tracking issues at full speed. Yet you've almost certainly never heard of it because it's never been flavor of the month. P.S. No I will not disclose what ship + setup i'm talking about. It's called a Mothership. You can evade any tackle except mass-bubbling. You can utterly control a fight with burst ECM, cyno and massive carrier capacity. And you can't be webbed, nor does tracking ever factor into your thinking. ~~~ Survive Eve! Eve Tribune


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