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Why is armor-pimping so expensive?

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lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:19:00 - [1] So for the past few weeks I've been playing around with Eve Fitting Tool to try to produce a nicely pimped ship that costs a reasonable amount of ISK. I've gone from navythrons to domis to astartes to deimoses to taranii, and one trend occurs. To lightly pimp out a ship using faction modules such as TS armor repairers and EANMS is cheap as chips, but quite frankly offers no boost. Then there's a huge gap. Then there's a pair of Corpum A- MARs going for the price of a carrier, an EANM for the same and an expl hard for 400m. There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place --- Project Mayhem 2
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:23:00 - [2] Wait a sec... Forget whatever point you're trying to make.. Lofty is in BoB?.. They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game?.. Not that I have anything against you Lofty, in fact I kinda like your exploits.. But just... wow. Taxman III: Attack of the Blob
Morn Judith Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Wait a sec... Forget whatever point you're trying to make.. Lofty is in BoB?.. They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game?.. Not that I have anything against you Lofty, in fact I kinda like your exploits.. But just... wow. /signed. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:27:00 - [4] welcome to last week kids as for why... its prolly because they ARE more valuable, armor tanking is ftw Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums: Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game? 1. Hiring? I joined of my own free will. 2. Scammer? I'm not a scammer, I don't 'scam' people as such. 3. Noobs are fine to kill, redswarm are noobs. Newbies on the other hand, aren't. 4. I'm actually quite a nice guy, and my friends say I'm a good pvper. Well, three out of four ain't bad. --- Project Mayhem 2
3nkil The Chocolate Factory	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:35:00 - [6] BoB and lofty are just fine with bending the rules of the game..it is a good fit imo.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:51:00 - [7] @OP: Yarr, it's either super-cheap stuff or super-expensive stuff. I like to compromise by getting a little bit of each. Then the ship explodes and I cry... starting a period where I only use super-cheap. Then I get bold again and splurge on some super-expensive stuff... and it explodes again.
Flamewave Scorn Again.	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:09:00 - [8] Well, another thing to consider. Changing static complexes to exploration seems to have raised the prices of most everything faction. Even the relatively cheap shield mods took a big hit... Kinda sucks right now if you want to do any sort of faction mod pimping. __________
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:21:00 - [9] Although it's hard for some people to understand (mostly shield tankers), armour tanking lacks a lot, and could do with a bit of loving in some areas - just like Lofty said. ---
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:32:00 - [10] Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 04/09/2007 02:33:31 Prices are high because people can somehow afford to pay them. Consider that one side effect of players buying ISK for cash is price inflation in game, specifically for faction/officer items because that's why people buy ISK, to be able to afford them. And there is a lot of ISK buying going in game, plus armor tanking is popular in pvp hence mods get blown up unlike on mission running ravens, so this might have something to do with the final price on your ships being "wtfexpensive".
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:34:00 - [11] Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:45:00 - [12] As far as Deadspace Mods. Prices have gone up for them. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Cheaper Easier to fit Are you referring to armor or shield tanking there? Personally I think shield tanking is less skill intensive but I've not run the numbers. Originally by: Riley Craven Its sad that its easier to fit an armor tank to a raven to rat in delve than it is to do a sheild tank. Well, considering the rats in Delve are doing EM and thermal damage that doesn't really come as a huge surprise. Base resists on your shields are 0/20 and on armor are 60/45. You need a lot less hardening for your armor than you do for your shields so you can use cheaper components (and 5 free midslots for cap rechargers helps run the tank)
Lowanaera Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Yep shield tanking is definitely more skill intensive, that's why shield tankers get a 30% omni module after 5 days of training, while armor tankers get a 25% omni module after 2 months of training. Oh wait.....
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 03:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Lowanaera Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Yep shield tanking is definitely more skill intensive, that's why shield tankers get a 30% omni module after 5 days of training, while armor tankers get a 25% omni module after 2 months of training. Oh wait..... Basically your comparing one module to the entire skill tree. Not counting the compensation skills of either: Armor has 3 skills to max (two rank 1 and one rank 2) Shield has 5 skills to max (one rank 1, two rank 2, one rank 3, and one rank 4) Nice try... but fail!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 03:19:00 - [16] Edited by: Riley Craven on 04/09/2007 03:20:50 Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Cheaper Easier to fit Are you referring to armor or shield tanking there? Personally I think shield tanking is less skill intensive but I've not run the numbers. Originally by: Riley Craven Its sad that its easier to fit an armor tank to a raven to rat in delve than it is to do a sheild tank. Well, considering the rats in Delve are doing EM and thermal damage that doesn't really come as a huge surprise. Base resists on your shields are 0/20 and on armor are 60/45. You need a lot less hardening for your armor than you do for your shields so you can use cheaper components (and 5 free midslots for cap rechargers helps run the tank) Your right it does have a resist bonus (which is why I used it, lol) My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. I decided to look at cost of tanks too just for a hoot Sheild 1 booster (Pith X XL = 1.2-1.5bil) 1 Amp (Pith X 900-1.3bil) 2 Hardners (Pith X photon 500-700mil, Thermal 600-700mil, or Kin 500-700mil) Armor 1 booster( Centus X 900-1.2bil) 2 regular hardners (Centus X Kin 500-600mil, Thermal 850-1.2bil, EXP 800-1.2bil) So yes while the harders are more expensive, having to buy a boost amp for sheilds more than makes up for it. The cost would only tip if you bought a centum A adapt nano (500-900) Not exactly what the op was talking about as he was looking for mid range mods, but because its so much better an easier to armor tank I dont really see the need for it.
aUTOKILL Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.04 04:59:00 - [17] yea i agree there should be mods a-type b-type c-type it would be cooler cause then people would be able to afford (kind of) to put those mods witch are better than t2 on their ships. Would make pvp moar fun too cause fights would last longer and there would be better.......LEWT! ~~~~~~
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.04 05:05:00 - [18] Those modules are mostly used on capital ships anyway But you could always grab your own helios or whatever and save yourself isk --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.09.04 05:05:00 - [19] You forget Riley, heavy active armor tanks often run two reps, shield equivalent is a XL SB and boost amp. And yes, I'd like to see some B and C type deadspace gear appear as well, be nice to be able to fit something between a Dark Blood MAR at <100M and a Centum A-type at >300M. For now, i just use cheap T2 MARs, they do the job. Shield Tanks also only seen to have B and C type stuff on the active hardeners and the BS sized mods, for some reason. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:12:00 - [20] their are middle type of complex armor stuff, cant remember their names but their are 64% hardeners, 61%, 59 and 57? So that ain't really a problem, 64% explo cost like 400 mill but the 59-61 is what 200+?
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:17:00 - [21] The real problem is that the best shield mods are much much better than the best armor mods. Compare the stats gain between a med repper II and a corpum a-type, then a shield booster II and a pithum a-type. For some reason the shield mod get well over double the bonus......
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 04/09/2007 03:20:50 Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Cheaper Easier to fit Are you referring to armor or shield tanking there? Personally I think shield tanking is less skill intensive but I've not run the numbers. Originally by: Riley Craven Its sad that its easier to fit an armor tank to a raven to rat in delve than it is to do a sheild tank. Well, considering the rats in Delve are doing EM and thermal damage that doesn't really come as a huge surprise. Base resists on your shields are 0/20 and on armor are 60/45. You need a lot less hardening for your armor than you do for your shields so you can use cheaper components (and 5 free midslots for cap rechargers helps run the tank) Your right it does have a resist bonus (which is why I used it, lol) My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. I decided to look at cost of tanks too just for a hoot Sheild 1 booster (Pith X XL = 1.2-1.5bil) 1 Amp (Pith X 900-1.3bil) 2 Hardners (Pith X photon 500-700mil, Thermal 600-700mil, or Kin 500-700mil) Armor 1 booster( Centus X 900-1.2bil) 2 regular hardners (Centus X Kin 500-600mil, Thermal 850-1.2bil, EXP 800-1.2bil) So yes while the harders are more expensive, having to buy a boost amp for sheilds more than makes up for it. The cost would only tip if you bought a centum A adapt nano (500-900) Not exactly what the op was talking about as he was looking for mid range mods, but because its so much better an easier to armor tank I dont really see the need for it. Err you mean duel centus x-type armor reps to match your XL booster. Also you go on about sustainability. Looking at cruiser mods the pithum a-type shield booster is more cap efficient than the best armor reps, it also boosts alot more.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Wait a sec... Forget whatever point you're trying to make.. Lofty is in BoB?.. They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game?.. Not that I have anything against you Lofty, in fact I kinda like your exploits.. But just... wow. "Massive Dramabomb on long range scan, captain!" "Acknowledged. I want the popcorn makers at peak readiness until further notice, ensign." CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:49:00 - [24] obisiouly because you: 1. joined bob 2. have been a naughty boy in the past 3. (on a more serious note) deathspace stuff became rarer, because of plexes being moved into exploration. prices went up. since everybody and his mother armor tanks in pvp this stuff is the most expensive. another important factor are RESELLERS. they drive prices up artifically. if ppl wouldnt buy from them, prices would be much lower. but there seems to be enough ppl who afford isk trough gtc and just buy officer stuff without using their brains. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:53:00 - [25] Originally by: twit brent Err you mean duel centus x-type armor reps to match your XL booster. Also you go on about sustainability. Looking at cruiser mods the pithum a-type shield booster is more cap efficient than the best armor reps, it also boosts alot more. Then you should replace the Pith X-Type XL with a Gist X-Type XL for 2-2.5b. Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Riley Craven My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. A dual-rep tank (neccessary for a tank fit) will run indefinitely until you run out of cap boosters, which is about five minutes max with a full hold on your average BC, assuming 12 cap booster 800s in hold, one in cap booster and manually timing them to make them last a bit longer. Your cap will not last longer then six minutes, in any case, when repping to the max. If you want your armour repair to match the XL booster + amplifier, you're looking at a dual rep, I'm afraid. Shield - 3.3bil min. Armour - about 3 bil min. Originally by: Riley Craven Not exactly what the op was talking about as he was looking for mid range mods, but because its so much better an easier to armor tank I dont really see the need for it. Where do you get that idea? The only reason why it's better to armour tank most of the time when soloing is that you can fit a full tank and the three essential pieces of PvP gear on it. You compromise your damage, though. I prefer fully tanked setups, though, as fully gank setups would require a lot more skills which I frankly do not have at this point to work. Shield tanking is very fine in a gang (and is neither better nor worse then armour tanking), because you can have both a hefty tank and great damage (like, for example, a Maelstorm in a small gang), just cannot operate outside of a gang. Solo, it's impossible on most ships to fit 4 mods for tankage (booster, amp,invuln field, cap injector) and just two mods for tackle (distruptor/webber), not to mention lack of possibility to fit a MWD on top of that all. Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Aramendel on 04/09/2007 12:37:06 Edited by: Aramendel on 04/09/2007 12:36:44 Originally by: Riley Craven Basically your comparing one module to the entire skill tree. Not counting the compensation skills of either: Armor has 3 skills to max (two rank 1 and one rank 2) Shield has 5 skills to max (one rank 1, two rank 2, one rank 3, and one rank 4) Nice try... but fail! Exept the compensation skills are vital for armortanking since the omniharderner there is a passive one. Shieldtankers will do just fine without a single specific compensation skill trained - unless you go for a fully passivetank. But that is an additional option which armortankers do not have in the first place. There there owuld be an option for a passive regenerating armortank I am sure armortankers would not mind more skills there. Same with shield upgrades, there is no need at all to max it, unless you want to get the maximum benefit from the PG reduction from the skill. I strongly doubt any armortankers would mind a rank2 skill which reduces the griduse of plates by 25%. SU gives shield tankers an advantage armor tankers do not have in the first place. Unless you want to go for capital shieldtanks there is very little benefit in maxing TSM as well. Even with damage leeching through shieldtanks at 5% they have compared to armortank still a bigger HP buffer once their tank is failing than armortanks. Both for practical use shieldtanks are less SP effective both in getting to the t2 lvl as in getting an equal performance to armortanks. Originally by: Riley Craven My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. The lower base resistances of shields are easily countered by the higher reistance boost of invul fields. A heavy shieldtank (x-large t2 + SBA) is more cap efficient and does more rep/sec than a dual t2 LAR tank. You neither need a t2 SBA nor lvl5 shield compensation for that, too.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:54:00 - [28] So i heard bending over is the new honorable thing to do? Anyway, try pimping a shieldtank, even worse.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:27:00 - [29] Originally by: lofty29 There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place Wait a minute, aren't the corpum modules dropped in complexes? Complexes that just happen to be located within Bob territory? And, if CCP added more core/centus sites, wouldn't they also be located mostly within Bob territory? ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
tla gnillortmurof	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:44:00 - [30] Lofty and BoB are a perfect match.

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