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Why is armor-pimping so expensive?

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lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:19:00 - [1] So for the past few weeks I've been playing around with Eve Fitting Tool to try to produce a nicely pimped ship that costs a reasonable amount of ISK. I've gone from navythrons to domis to astartes to deimoses to taranii, and one trend occurs. To lightly pimp out a ship using faction modules such as TS armor repairers and EANMS is cheap as chips, but quite frankly offers no boost. Then there's a huge gap. Then there's a pair of Corpum A- MARs going for the price of a carrier, an EANM for the same and an expl hard for 400m. There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place --- Project Mayhem 2
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:23:00 - [2] Wait a sec... Forget whatever point you're trying to make.. Lofty is in BoB?.. They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game?.. Not that I have anything against you Lofty, in fact I kinda like your exploits.. But just... wow. Taxman III: Attack of the Blob
Morn Judith Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Wait a sec... Forget whatever point you're trying to make.. Lofty is in BoB?.. They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game?.. Not that I have anything against you Lofty, in fact I kinda like your exploits.. But just... wow. /signed. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:27:00 - [4] welcome to last week kids as for why... its prolly because they ARE more valuable, armor tanking is ftw Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums: Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game? 1. Hiring? I joined of my own free will. 2. Scammer? I'm not a scammer, I don't 'scam' people as such. 3. Noobs are fine to kill, redswarm are noobs. Newbies on the other hand, aren't. 4. I'm actually quite a nice guy, and my friends say I'm a good pvper. Well, three out of four ain't bad. --- Project Mayhem 2
3nkil The Chocolate Factory	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:35:00 - [6] BoB and lofty are just fine with bending the rules of the game..it is a good fit imo.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:51:00 - [7] @OP: Yarr, it's either super-cheap stuff or super-expensive stuff. I like to compromise by getting a little bit of each. Then the ship explodes and I cry... starting a period where I only use super-cheap. Then I get bold again and splurge on some super-expensive stuff... and it explodes again.
Flamewave Scorn Again.	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:09:00 - [8] Well, another thing to consider. Changing static complexes to exploration seems to have raised the prices of most everything faction. Even the relatively cheap shield mods took a big hit... Kinda sucks right now if you want to do any sort of faction mod pimping. __________
Grez Minmatar Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:21:00 - [9] Although it's hard for some people to understand (mostly shield tankers), armour tanking lacks a lot, and could do with a bit of loving in some areas - just like Lofty said. ---
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:32:00 - [10] Edited by: Sicil Fioet on 04/09/2007 02:33:31 Prices are high because people can somehow afford to pay them. Consider that one side effect of players buying ISK for cash is price inflation in game, specifically for faction/officer items because that's why people buy ISK, to be able to afford them. And there is a lot of ISK buying going in game, plus armor tanking is popular in pvp hence mods get blown up unlike on mission running ravens, so this might have something to do with the final price on your ships being "wtfexpensive".
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:34:00 - [11] Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:45:00 - [12] As far as Deadspace Mods. Prices have gone up for them. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Maglorre	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Cheaper Easier to fit Are you referring to armor or shield tanking there? Personally I think shield tanking is less skill intensive but I've not run the numbers. Originally by: Riley Craven Its sad that its easier to fit an armor tank to a raven to rat in delve than it is to do a sheild tank. Well, considering the rats in Delve are doing EM and thermal damage that doesn't really come as a huge surprise. Base resists on your shields are 0/20 and on armor are 60/45. You need a lot less hardening for your armor than you do for your shields so you can use cheaper components (and 5 free midslots for cap rechargers helps run the tank)
Lowanaera Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Yep shield tanking is definitely more skill intensive, that's why shield tankers get a 30% omni module after 5 days of training, while armor tankers get a 25% omni module after 2 months of training. Oh wait.....
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 03:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Lowanaera Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Yep shield tanking is definitely more skill intensive, that's why shield tankers get a 30% omni module after 5 days of training, while armor tankers get a 25% omni module after 2 months of training. Oh wait..... Basically your comparing one module to the entire skill tree. Not counting the compensation skills of either: Armor has 3 skills to max (two rank 1 and one rank 2) Shield has 5 skills to max (one rank 1, two rank 2, one rank 3, and one rank 4) Nice try... but fail!
Riley Craven Caldari Copacetic Corporation	Posted - 2007.09.04 03:19:00 - [16] Edited by: Riley Craven on 04/09/2007 03:20:50 Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Cheaper Easier to fit Are you referring to armor or shield tanking there? Personally I think shield tanking is less skill intensive but I've not run the numbers. Originally by: Riley Craven Its sad that its easier to fit an armor tank to a raven to rat in delve than it is to do a sheild tank. Well, considering the rats in Delve are doing EM and thermal damage that doesn't really come as a huge surprise. Base resists on your shields are 0/20 and on armor are 60/45. You need a lot less hardening for your armor than you do for your shields so you can use cheaper components (and 5 free midslots for cap rechargers helps run the tank) Your right it does have a resist bonus (which is why I used it, lol) My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. I decided to look at cost of tanks too just for a hoot Sheild 1 booster (Pith X XL = 1.2-1.5bil) 1 Amp (Pith X 900-1.3bil) 2 Hardners (Pith X photon 500-700mil, Thermal 600-700mil, or Kin 500-700mil) Armor 1 booster( Centus X 900-1.2bil) 2 regular hardners (Centus X Kin 500-600mil, Thermal 850-1.2bil, EXP 800-1.2bil) So yes while the harders are more expensive, having to buy a boost amp for sheilds more than makes up for it. The cost would only tip if you bought a centum A adapt nano (500-900) Not exactly what the op was talking about as he was looking for mid range mods, but because its so much better an easier to armor tank I dont really see the need for it.
aUTOKILL Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.04 04:59:00 - [17] yea i agree there should be mods a-type b-type c-type it would be cooler cause then people would be able to afford (kind of) to put those mods witch are better than t2 on their ships. Would make pvp moar fun too cause fights would last longer and there would be better.......LEWT! ~~~~~~
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.04 05:05:00 - [18] Those modules are mostly used on capital ships anyway But you could always grab your own helios or whatever and save yourself isk --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.09.04 05:05:00 - [19] You forget Riley, heavy active armor tanks often run two reps, shield equivalent is a XL SB and boost amp. And yes, I'd like to see some B and C type deadspace gear appear as well, be nice to be able to fit something between a Dark Blood MAR at <100M and a Centum A-type at >300M. For now, i just use cheap T2 MARs, they do the job. Shield Tanks also only seen to have B and C type stuff on the active hardeners and the BS sized mods, for some reason. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Kur'Dekaija Atomic Heroes The OSS	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:12:00 - [20] their are middle type of complex armor stuff, cant remember their names but their are 64% hardeners, 61%, 59 and 57? So that ain't really a problem, 64% explo cost like 400 mill but the 59-61 is what 200+?
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:17:00 - [21] The real problem is that the best shield mods are much much better than the best armor mods. Compare the stats gain between a med repper II and a corpum a-type, then a shield booster II and a pithum a-type. For some reason the shield mod get well over double the bonus......
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Riley Craven Edited by: Riley Craven on 04/09/2007 03:20:50 Originally by: Maglorre Originally by: Riley Craven Look at sheild tanking then come whine about your armor tanks. Less skill intensive Cheaper Easier to fit Are you referring to armor or shield tanking there? Personally I think shield tanking is less skill intensive but I've not run the numbers. Originally by: Riley Craven Its sad that its easier to fit an armor tank to a raven to rat in delve than it is to do a sheild tank. Well, considering the rats in Delve are doing EM and thermal damage that doesn't really come as a huge surprise. Base resists on your shields are 0/20 and on armor are 60/45. You need a lot less hardening for your armor than you do for your shields so you can use cheaper components (and 5 free midslots for cap rechargers helps run the tank) Your right it does have a resist bonus (which is why I used it, lol) My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. I decided to look at cost of tanks too just for a hoot Sheild 1 booster (Pith X XL = 1.2-1.5bil) 1 Amp (Pith X 900-1.3bil) 2 Hardners (Pith X photon 500-700mil, Thermal 600-700mil, or Kin 500-700mil) Armor 1 booster( Centus X 900-1.2bil) 2 regular hardners (Centus X Kin 500-600mil, Thermal 850-1.2bil, EXP 800-1.2bil) So yes while the harders are more expensive, having to buy a boost amp for sheilds more than makes up for it. The cost would only tip if you bought a centum A adapt nano (500-900) Not exactly what the op was talking about as he was looking for mid range mods, but because its so much better an easier to armor tank I dont really see the need for it. Err you mean duel centus x-type armor reps to match your XL booster. Also you go on about sustainability. Looking at cruiser mods the pithum a-type shield booster is more cap efficient than the best armor reps, it also boosts alot more.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff Wait a sec... Forget whatever point you're trying to make.. Lofty is in BoB?.. They're hiring one of the most reknowned scammers and noob-baiters in the game?.. Not that I have anything against you Lofty, in fact I kinda like your exploits.. But just... wow. "Massive Dramabomb on long range scan, captain!" "Acknowledged. I want the popcorn makers at peak readiness until further notice, ensign." CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:49:00 - [24] obisiouly because you: 1. joined bob 2. have been a naughty boy in the past 3. (on a more serious note) deathspace stuff became rarer, because of plexes being moved into exploration. prices went up. since everybody and his mother armor tanks in pvp this stuff is the most expensive. another important factor are RESELLERS. they drive prices up artifically. if ppl wouldnt buy from them, prices would be much lower. but there seems to be enough ppl who afford isk trough gtc and just buy officer stuff without using their brains. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:53:00 - [25] Originally by: twit brent Err you mean duel centus x-type armor reps to match your XL booster. Also you go on about sustainability. Looking at cruiser mods the pithum a-type shield booster is more cap efficient than the best armor reps, it also boosts alot more. Then you should replace the Pith X-Type XL with a Gist X-Type XL for 2-2.5b. Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Riley Craven My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. A dual-rep tank (neccessary for a tank fit) will run indefinitely until you run out of cap boosters, which is about five minutes max with a full hold on your average BC, assuming 12 cap booster 800s in hold, one in cap booster and manually timing them to make them last a bit longer. Your cap will not last longer then six minutes, in any case, when repping to the max. If you want your armour repair to match the XL booster + amplifier, you're looking at a dual rep, I'm afraid. Shield - 3.3bil min. Armour - about 3 bil min. Originally by: Riley Craven Not exactly what the op was talking about as he was looking for mid range mods, but because its so much better an easier to armor tank I dont really see the need for it. Where do you get that idea? The only reason why it's better to armour tank most of the time when soloing is that you can fit a full tank and the three essential pieces of PvP gear on it. You compromise your damage, though. I prefer fully tanked setups, though, as fully gank setups would require a lot more skills which I frankly do not have at this point to work. Shield tanking is very fine in a gang (and is neither better nor worse then armour tanking), because you can have both a hefty tank and great damage (like, for example, a Maelstorm in a small gang), just cannot operate outside of a gang. Solo, it's impossible on most ships to fit 4 mods for tankage (booster, amp,invuln field, cap injector) and just two mods for tackle (distruptor/webber), not to mention lack of possibility to fit a MWD on top of that all. Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:32:00 - [27] Edited by: Aramendel on 04/09/2007 12:37:06 Edited by: Aramendel on 04/09/2007 12:36:44 Originally by: Riley Craven Basically your comparing one module to the entire skill tree. Not counting the compensation skills of either: Armor has 3 skills to max (two rank 1 and one rank 2) Shield has 5 skills to max (one rank 1, two rank 2, one rank 3, and one rank 4) Nice try... but fail! Exept the compensation skills are vital for armortanking since the omniharderner there is a passive one. Shieldtankers will do just fine without a single specific compensation skill trained - unless you go for a fully passivetank. But that is an additional option which armortankers do not have in the first place. There there owuld be an option for a passive regenerating armortank I am sure armortankers would not mind more skills there. Same with shield upgrades, there is no need at all to max it, unless you want to get the maximum benefit from the PG reduction from the skill. I strongly doubt any armortankers would mind a rank2 skill which reduces the griduse of plates by 25%. SU gives shield tankers an advantage armor tankers do not have in the first place. Unless you want to go for capital shieldtanks there is very little benefit in maxing TSM as well. Even with damage leeching through shieldtanks at 5% they have compared to armortank still a bigger HP buffer once their tank is failing than armortanks. Both for practical use shieldtanks are less SP effective both in getting to the t2 lvl as in getting an equal performance to armortanks. Originally by: Riley Craven My point is that armor has more resists, and can run indef without the need for rigs and still maintain damage while its not possible for sheild tanks. The lower base resistances of shields are easily countered by the higher reistance boost of invul fields. A heavy shieldtank (x-large t2 + SBA) is more cap efficient and does more rep/sec than a dual t2 LAR tank. You neither need a t2 SBA nor lvl5 shield compensation for that, too.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:54:00 - [28] So i heard bending over is the new honorable thing to do? Anyway, try pimping a shieldtank, even worse.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:27:00 - [29] Originally by: lofty29 There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place Wait a minute, aren't the corpum modules dropped in complexes? Complexes that just happen to be located within Bob territory? And, if CCP added more core/centus sites, wouldn't they also be located mostly within Bob territory? ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
tla gnillortmurof	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:44:00 - [30] Lofty and BoB are a perfect match.
Celestal	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:01:00 - [31] LOL lofty in bob thats the absolute proof, if needed , that bob are losing and are scraping the barrel by simply boosting their numbers with anyone they can, to simply try slow down the inevitable
DirtyHarry Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:18:00 - [32] I like how the trolls completely derailed the topic, jealousy is a horrible thing. RKK INNIT - Havo / DH
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 04/09/2007 14:21:13 Originally by: Celestal LOL lofty in bob thats the absolute proof, if needed , that bob are losing and are scraping the barrel by simply boosting their numbers with anyone they can, to simply try slow down the inevitable Hmm, personally I think if BoB stole more members from The Church, they'd be better, not worse off . As members of The Church like to say: "let us prey." 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:28:00 - [34] LOL When will people stop this horrible whining?! The market works perfectly. If items are not abundant and VERY good so that everyone and their mother want them it is only the consequence that the price shoots up. It is to expensive for you? Then don't buy. Simple as that. A mothership is also to expensive for me (and most other people) for example. Do I whine that they must become cheaper so that every hunch and bunch, including me, can get one? No! Because it is not meant to be that way! And if the demand for good shield stuff would be as high as the demand for good armor stuff the prices would be very different then too!
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:56:00 - [35] Originally by: lofty29 So for the past few weeks I've been playing around with Eve Fitting Tool to try to produce a nicely pimped ship that costs a reasonable amount of ISK. I've gone from navythrons to domis to astartes to deimoses to taranii, and one trend occurs. To lightly pimp out a ship using faction modules such as TS armor repairers and EANMS is cheap as chips, but quite frankly offers no boost. Then there's a huge gap. Then there's a pair of Corpum A- MARs going for the price of a carrier, an EANM for the same and an expl hard for 400m. There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place thank the devs for removing static complexes. Thats the only reason these things are so expensive now. I wanted to buy a Gistii A-Type small shield booster for my cerberus. Before the nerf to the complexes it was around 75m, try getting one now...180m. Nothx ________________________________ High Sec PvP Originally by: "Wylker" CCP has finally mastered stupidity
Selena 001	Posted - 2007.09.04 17:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Riley Craven Its sad that its easier to fit an armor tank to a raven to rat in delve than it is to do a sheild tank. Trying to tank EM and thermal on shields? Your a clever one aint ya On Topic... BOOST *ARMOUR* TANKS! (Note spelling) ___________ NATIONAL SARCASM DAY!!
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.04 17:10:00 - [37] /signed I am in the same boat as lofty29. From the Megathron to the Astarte these ships are begging for a 'middle class' modification. Coughing up 400+ Mil for a top of the line hardener is steep but there is no alternative for us. CCP needs to seed some middle ground Faction/Deadspace/Officer Armor modifications. They are already in the database (the work is done) but just need to be placed into exploration sites or faction stores. CCP Sharkbait is a hero around here. :) If your reading this maybe you can look into the drop rate? (or lack there of?) I've yet to see the lower Corpum stuff on the market. I'd be happy to send in a bug report for you to track.
Das Forscher Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.09.04 17:11:00 - [38] Edited by: Das Forscher on 04/09/2007 17:13:45 /signed and for the record, I want my lofty back :( <-- this is my sad face also, lofty is one of the most skileld pvpers and gangleaders in eve and a damn fine guy, so up yours everyone who denouces him //------------------------------------------------------ Oveurs true identity revealed
Melinda Bettin	Posted - 2007.09.04 17:17:00 - [39] Originally by: lofty29 There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place Admit it, you just joined Bob so your whines would actually be considered by the Devs....
tla gnillortmurof Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:03:00 - [40] Originally by: Sgt Napalm these ships are begging for a 'middle class' modification. I though that was what tech 2 was, but maybe that just shows how poor I am...
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:06:00 - [41] no you are right lets make the better of the two tanks even cheaper by changing the game ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:14:00 - [42] I was thinking the exact same thing last night when fitting a navythron, and I just couldnt justify spending 900mil on a core x-type rep and then fitting it on a ship that only cost 450mil :/
Agillious Gallente Inner Circle Helter-Skelter	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:21:00 - [43] This big-war-thing that's been going on and ships that keep popping in that big-war-thing, and people buying mods to replace the ones that went poof in that big-war-thing wouldn't have anything to do with the price of pimped armor mods, would it? Not at all, given that armor tanks are generally considered better (or more popular at least) for PvP, right? Market forces 4tw! MORE SHINY, PLEASE!!!
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:28:00 - [44] Originally by: SiJira no you are right lets make the better of the two tanks even cheaper by changing the game Uhm, you and everybody else in this thread have missed the point by about this far. The prices of A and X-type armor mods are fine. They are the best ingame and people will pay for them. Gist X- is even moar expensive, and I accept that too. What I don't like is that there is such a huge gap between the two levels of pimping you can do. Cheap faction mods like TS armor reps are one end, then the next level you step up to is A- and X- type, the really expensive stuff. In shield tanking, they have the faction mods and then C and B type. I don't want the game changed I merely want exploration sites added which drop C and B- type armor modules, thus making Pimping armor on-par with Pimping shield in terms of available modules for midrange. I'd gladly core b- out a BS if it was the same price as Gist B-, but as it is it isn't ingame. --- Project Mayhem 2
Vyyrus An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:48:00 - [45] Any BOB thread is a bad thread =[
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:05:00 - [46] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: SiJira no you are right lets make the better of the two tanks even cheaper by changing the game Uhm, you and everybody else in this thread have missed the point by about this far. The prices of A and X-type armor mods are fine. They are the best ingame and people will pay for them. Gist X- is even moar expensive, and I accept that too. What I don't like is that there is such a huge gap between the two levels of pimping you can do. Cheap faction mods like TS armor reps are one end, then the next level you step up to is A- and X- type, the really expensive stuff. In shield tanking, they have the faction mods and then C and B type. I don't want the game changed I merely want exploration sites added which drop C and B- type armor modules, thus making Pimping armor on-par with Pimping shield in terms of available modules for midrange. I'd gladly core b- out a BS if it was the same price as Gist B-, but as it is it isn't ingame. if everyone disagrees dont you think something is wrong with the argument? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:18:00 - [47] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: SiJira no you are right lets make the better of the two tanks even cheaper by changing the game Uhm, you and everybody else in this thread have missed the point by about this far. The prices of A and X-type armor mods are fine. They are the best ingame and people will pay for them. Gist X- is even moar expensive, and I accept that too. What I don't like is that there is such a huge gap between the two levels of pimping you can do. Cheap faction mods like TS armor reps are one end, then the next level you step up to is A- and X- type, the really expensive stuff. In shield tanking, they have the faction mods and then C and B type. I don't want the game changed I merely want exploration sites added which drop C and B- type armor modules, thus making Pimping armor on-par with Pimping shield in terms of available modules for midrange. I'd gladly core b- out a BS if it was the same price as Gist B-, but as it is it isn't ingame. if everyone disagrees dont you think something is wrong with the argument? People who have posted so far (mostly) are those who have either gone 'LOL LOFTY IN BOB!' or argued that armor is wtfbetter at tanking. A) No, armor is not better at tanking. It is more cap efficient and does not take up midslots, but shield tanking, hp for hp, is better at raw tanking. B) A full gist X- tank wtfpwns a full core x- by quite a way HP for HP. C) I wasn't arguing to make the best armor modules cheaper, or introduce better ones. I was arguing to bring in complexes which drop the Armor equivilent of Gist C and B- type tanking modules. The only 'modification' required would be adding a few new exploration sites on par with the ones which drop the gist c- and b- modules, but which drop the Core C- and B- modules. The Armor modules are already Ingame, and looking by current prices for Gist tanking modules, it would barely affect the prices of a full X-type tank. --- Project Mayhem 2
kimish	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:30:00 - [48] Originally by: 3nkil BoB and lofty are just fine with bending the rules of the game..it is a good fit imo. well don't tell me your surpriced about the state of attitude they are going with ;) _____ _____ "When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table."
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:12:00 - [49] This was a perfectly legit thread derailed due to tin-foilers. All what Lofty, I, and others are asking for is to seed the 'middle' ground armor modifications. Nothing more, nothing less.
Royaldo Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:27:00 - [50] i agree with lofty29 however, if introduced to escape tinfoil, make these exploration sites whereever there is armortanking npc's.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Royaldo i agree with lofty29 however, if introduced to escape tinfoil, make these exploration sites whereever there is armortanking npc's. By logic they'd be in Delve, Fountain and wherever Sansha's HQ is. --- Project Mayhem 2
Vele Nori Amarr	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:43:00 - [52] People are missing your thread topic because it is not clear what you are complaining about. You start with prices and end with give us more cheaper mods because shield tankers have them and we armor tankers don't. This whine is just not very clear, so don't blame others for discussing the things you yourself put into the topic. As far as I know, armor mods do not go from faction up to A and X-type mods. There are intermediates and players at this very moment are selling them on contracts and on sell orders forum. There are a few intermediate LARs, two Brynn's nano membranes for just about 200 mil each if you don't want to buy the one that's priced like a carrier, posted up on contracts. I'd see people sitting in mods channel trying to sell their mid-priced stuff, equivalent to C and B type mods, and no one is buying it for weeks because everyone wants just the top end stuff. So I don't quite get what you're complaining about. These do exist and they are on the market out there. Perhaps it would take longer than 5 seconds to click on accept contract to get them. But buying faction modules you want is always a bit of a headache since they rare as they are supposed to be. If you don't like prices you'd have to negotiate, no one's gonna bring them to you on golden platter for a good price, but they are selling out there for lower prices than the high end stuff.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Vele Nori People are missing your thread topic because it is not clear what you are complaining about. You start with prices and end with give us more cheaper mods because shield tankers have them and we armor tankers don't. This whine is just not very clear, so don't blame others for discussing the things you yourself put into the topic. It's called an introduction... I used that for the reasoning as to why CCP should seed the modules, explaining that there is a distance between the modules price ranges which is far too vast. I didn't whine about how expensive the modules were, they're fine. --- Project Mayhem 2
Cyan Nuevo Dudes In Crazy Killing Ships	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:01:00 - [54] I think what lofty is trying to say is pretty clear... Agreed! --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Commoner Caldari Backyard Gankstars	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:28:00 - [55] Well one reason to why armor pimps stuff might be so expensive is that the majority of the ships in eve are better off being armor tanked. Its something like 65% armor tank ships and 35% shield tank. The demand is higher. The price is higher, and the supply for shield and armor mods are roughly equal. The worst pvp'er in EVE :
GandolftheWhite Gallente The Hull Miners Union	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:46:00 - [56] I cant believe yall are crying that shield tanking is so sub par to armor tanking. Have yall gone up against a passive night hawk or drake recently fully pimped? It takes a fleet to blow them up. The only bonus to armor tanking is the midslots recouped. However the massive amount of people that use shields anymore in pvp tend to do the passive tanking and not the gistii raven setup currently used to farm npcs. I have yet to loot or see on a kill mail lately, a gist x type xl booster on anything fit for pvp... Lofty is right, releasing some midrange content isnt going to hurt anyone, the price for the x type and a type mods will still stay up because the only people actually using them would be the same that would still use them, on thier capital ships, or super pimped command ships. I mean its not even an argument if you pvp, you know.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Commoner Well one reason to why armor pimps stuff might be so expensive is that the majority of the ships in eve are better off being armor tanked. Its something like 65% armor tank ships and 35% shield tank. The demand is higher. The price is higher, and the supply for shield and armor mods are roughly equal. I'm not asking why it's so expensive. I know why it's expensive - because it's good, and there is a low supply vs demand. What I'm asking is for CCP to seed C and B type armor modules. OMAGAWD! The number of people who dont get what I'm saying is nutz... --- Project Mayhem 2
Vele Nori Amarr	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:00:00 - [58] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Vele Nori People are missing your thread topic because it is not clear what you are complaining about. You start with prices and end with give us more cheaper mods because shield tankers have them and we armor tankers don't. This whine is just not very clear, so don't blame others for discussing the things you yourself put into the topic. It's called an introduction... I used that for the reasoning as to why CCP should seed the modules, explaining that there is a distance between the modules price ranges which is far too vast. I didn't whine about how expensive the modules were, they're fine. OK, so it is not that you want to have more B and C type mods as one of the above posts indicates but overall you want the price range for top end modules to decrease which to be fair would have to be for both shield and armor tanking mods. I'm not sure those are intended for regular pvp, more like special occasions, cap ships, and rich mission runners. Prices have increased by 30-40% for a lot of DED space loot, but players are still buying them at that cost and the B and C type equivalents in mods are quite affordable unless you plan on blowing them up every week. So whether or not a price decrease is due depends on what CCP thinks the role for these modules should be.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:02:00 - [59] Originally by: Vele Nori OK, so it is not that you want to have more B and C type mods as one of the above posts indicates but overall you want the price range for top end modules to decrease which to be fair would have to be for both shield and armor tanking mods. I'm not sure those are intended for regular pvp, more like special occasions, cap ships, and rich mission runners. Prices have increased by 30-40% for a lot of DED space loot, but players are still buying them at that cost and the B and C type equivalents in mods are quite affordable unless you plan on blowing them up every week. So whether or not a price decrease is due depends on what CCP thinks the role for these modules should be. No, the B and C type modules should be seeded because Shield tankers have their mid-range modules and such. Prices would barely drop with the introduction of B and C armor tanking mods. Check Gist X-. Yes it's used more vastly in mission running, but virtually every supercap (very few wyvens / leviathans) uses armor tanking mods. --- Project Mayhem 2
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:08:00 - [60] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: lofty29 There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place Wait a minute, aren't the corpum modules dropped in complexes? Complexes that just happen to be located within Bob territory? And, if CCP added more core/centus sites, wouldn't they also be located mostly within Bob territory? WTF do u mean will be located in BOB territory? what has this got to do with anything? You will find these mods in all boodraider/sansha/serpentis space which is a huge chunk of 0.0. As for what I can see his post brings up a very valid point, just a pity people will try to derail with with unrelivant crap.
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:15:00 - [61] Originally by: twit brent WTF do u mean will be located in BOB territory? what has this got to do with anything? You will find these mods in all boodraider/sansha/serpentis space which is a huge chunk of 0.0. As for what I can see his post brings up a very valid point, just a pity people will try to derail with with unrelivant crap. Yes, it would spawn in BoB space. But that's because we control Fountain, Delve and other Blood-raider hotspots. It's not my fault BoB took control of some of the best regions ingame Take of your /tinfoil please. --- Project Mayhem 2
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:25:00 - [62] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: twit brent WTF do u mean will be located in BOB territory? what has this got to do with anything? You will find these mods in all boodraider/sansha/serpentis space which is a huge chunk of 0.0. As for what I can see his post brings up a very valid point, just a pity people will try to derail with with unrelivant crap. Yes, it would spawn in BoB space. But that's because we control Fountain, Delve and other Blood-raider hotspots. It's not my fault BoB took control of some of the best regions ingame Take of your /tinfoil please. so it wont happen and get it out of your head ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:35:00 - [63] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: twit brent WTF do u mean will be located in BOB territory? what has this got to do with anything? You will find these mods in all boodraider/sansha/serpentis space which is a huge chunk of 0.0. As for what I can see his post brings up a very valid point, just a pity people will try to derail with with unrelivant crap. Yes, it would spawn in BoB space. But that's because we control Fountain, Delve and other Blood-raider hotspots. It's not my fault BoB took control of some of the best regions ingame Take of your /tinfoil please. so it wont happen and get it out of your head Justify that comment. Why won't it happen? Because it's BoB space? I don't really give a damn, I don't NPC or run Plexes, I just want my mid-way tanked Navythron! --- Project Mayhem 2
Vele Nori Amarr	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:36:00 - [64] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Vele Nori OK, so it is not that you want to have more B and C type mods as one of the above posts indicates but overall you want the price range for top end modules to decrease which to be fair would have to be for both shield and armor tanking mods. I'm not sure those are intended for regular pvp, more like special occasions, cap ships, and rich mission runners. Prices have increased by 30-40% for a lot of DED space loot, but players are still buying them at that cost and the B and C type equivalents in mods are quite affordable unless you plan on blowing them up every week. So whether or not a price decrease is due depends on what CCP thinks the role for these modules should be. No, the B and C type modules should be seeded because Shield tankers have their mid-range modules and such. Prices would barely drop with the introduction of B and C armor tanking mods. Check Gist X-. Yes it's used more vastly in mission running, but virtually every supercap (very few wyvens / leviathans) uses armor tanking mods. Ok, but there are Brokara's, Brynn's, Tairei's, Raysere's, Selynne's, Tuvan's modified armor tanking modules selling out there which are equivalent to B and C type mods, reasonable in price, and can be currently bought over contracts or forum.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:11:00 - [65] Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: SiJira Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: twit brent WTF do u mean will be located in BOB territory? what has this got to do with anything? You will find these mods in all boodraider/sansha/serpentis space which is a huge chunk of 0.0. As for what I can see his post brings up a very valid point, just a pity people will try to derail with with unrelivant crap. Yes, it would spawn in BoB space. But that's because we control Fountain, Delve and other Blood-raider hotspots. It's not my fault BoB took control of some of the best regions ingame Take of your /tinfoil please. so it wont happen and get it out of your head Justify that comment. Why won't it happen? Because it's BoB space? I don't really give a damn, I don't NPC or run Plexes, I just want my mid-way tanked Navythron! CCP is not likely to do something bob inspired and profitable for bob because you might not have noticed but they are workin extra hard to be fair ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Jirai Grepher Creative Destruction EternalRising	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:39:00 - [66] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: SiJira Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: twit brent WTF do u mean will be located in BOB territory? what has this got to do with anything? You will find these mods in all boodraider/sansha/serpentis space which is a huge chunk of 0.0. As for what I can see his post brings up a very valid point, just a pity people will try to derail with with unrelivant crap. Yes, it would spawn in BoB space. But that's because we control Fountain, Delve and other Blood-raider hotspots. It's not my fault BoB took control of some of the best regions ingame Take of your /tinfoil please. so it wont happen and get it out of your head Justify that comment. Why won't it happen? Because it's BoB space? I don't really give a damn, I don't NPC or run Plexes, I just want my mid-way tanked Navythron! CCP is not likely to do something bob inspired and profitable for bob because you might not have noticed but they are workin extra hard to be fair that made no sense whatsoever. This went from a suggestion to add more armor tanking mods, to people Tin-Foiling about Alliances owned areas. If you don't like it, go take over fountain ect...go join the Alliance/Coalition (who is who i dunno nor care). CCP made it so you can go declare war and claim sovereignty in whatever 0.0 area you wish(mostly). Make the best of it and lemme know how it goes. Can we get back on subject about adding more Armor tanking mods now? The former and original Pel Mel All posts made reflect my opinion and not that of my corp/alliance.
Kastar Memphis Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:41:00 - [67] Agreed with the OP. I mind my own business, make an income but don't make the insane amounts you need for A-type stuff. I'd love to have a bit more midpriced stuff. I'll even take on Lofty -----------------------------------------------
MrBadidea Caldari Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.05 09:00:00 - [68] Originally by: lofty29 Edited by: lofty29 on 04/09/2007 21:57:51 So for the past few weeks I've been playing around with Eve Fitting Tool to try to produce a nicely pimped ship that costs a reasonable amount of ISK. I've gone from navythrons to domis to astartes to deimoses to taranii, and one trend occurs. To lightly pimp out a ship using faction modules such as TS armor repairers and EANMS is cheap as chips, but quite frankly offers no boost. Then there's a huge gap. Then there's a pair of Corpum A- MARs going for the price of a carrier, an EANM for the same and an expl hard for 400m. There is nothing for the middle man. I can easily afford the middle ground, but the high end stuff is just wtfexpensive. Shield tankers get all their C and B-type modules, so why cant armor tankers? Please CCP, seed some exploration sites which drop Core / Centus C and B type and make the world a better place wtb Deadspace Invulnerability Fields. --- Your Corporation Management Skills hit Lore Isander, Wrecking for Stolen Hulk BPO.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.05 09:35:00 - [69] Originally by: Jirai Grepher Originally by: SiJira CCP is not likely to do something bob inspired and profitable for bob because you might not have noticed but they are workin extra hard to be fair that made no sense whatsoever. This went from a suggestion to add more armor tanking mods, to people Tin-Foiling about Alliances owned areas. If you don't like it, go take over fountain ect...go join the Alliance/Coalition (who is who i dunno nor care). CCP made it so you can go declare war and claim sovereignty in whatever 0.0 area you wish(mostly). Make the best of it and lemme know how it goes. Can we get back on subject about adding more Armor tanking mods now? there are cold hard facts ccp wont do something unnecessary if its unfair. creating a new intermediate item that at current sovereignty levels would only drop to one alliance is on the list of wont happen anytime soon ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Captain Thunk Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.09.05 10:17:00 - [70] Try looking for the modules in the Dodixie area, sure you can find what you need. As for Lofty29 joining Reikoku, well, I expect they like his approach and attitude towards game mechanics. I'm sure he really is a great guy so long as you don't own something he wants
lofty29 Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.05 16:07:00 - [71] Originally by: Vele Nori Originally by: lofty29 Originally by: Vele Nori OK, so it is not that you want to have more B and C type mods as one of the above posts indicates but overall you want the price range for top end modules to decrease which to be fair would have to be for both shield and armor tanking mods. I'm not sure those are intended for regular pvp, more like special occasions, cap ships, and rich mission runners. Prices have increased by 30-40% for a lot of DED space loot, but players are still buying them at that cost and the B and C type equivalents in mods are quite affordable unless you plan on blowing them up every week. So whether or not a price decrease is due depends on what CCP thinks the role for these modules should be. No, the B and C type modules should be seeded because Shield tankers have their mid-range modules and such. Prices would barely drop with the introduction of B and C armor tanking mods. Check Gist X-. Yes it's used more vastly in mission running, but virtually every supercap (very few wyvens / leviathans) uses armor tanking mods. Ok, but there are Brokara's, Brynn's, Tairei's, Raysere's, Selynne's, Tuvan's modified armor tanking modules selling out there which are equivalent to B and C type mods, reasonable in price, and can be currently bought over contracts or forum. Maybe so, but last I checked there are currently (and have not been for quite a while) any Brokara's, Brynn's, Tairei's, Raysere's, Selynne's or Tuvan's modified armor tanking modules on escrow in quantities. The officer spawn rate is very low and how it should be. --- Project Mayhem 2
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.05 16:20:00 - [72] Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 05/09/2007 16:20:13 lofty is a good laundry boy, I know - my sheets have never been so white as when he did them. ;) I agree with lofty. More seckseh lewt more easily for the grabbing. - Recruitment open again-
General StarScream Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.05 16:36:00 - [73] Ye we need more armor love the sheild tankers got like 5 times more modules to play around with
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.10 22:52:00 - [74] Originally by: General StarScream Ye we need more armor love the sheild tankers got like 5 times more modules to play around with thats because shield is garbage ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem

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