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Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:28:00 - [1] Alright, I've played other PVP games and it was fun to play mouse and cat, I still have a thrill when I go mine in low sec or 0.0 and it's fun also to escape when a pirate attacks you. I'm not good at fighting and don't intend to become that way anytime soon. However, what is the fun here? Quote: 2007.09.03 21:21 Victim: ---- Alliance: NONE Corp: Federal Navy Academy Destroyed: Capsule System: ---- Security: 0.0 and also : Quote: 2007.09.03 21:04 Victim: ---- Alliance: NONE Corp: Federal Navy Academy Destroyed: Capsule System: ---- Security: 0.0 and same here: Quote: 2007.09.01 18:36 2007.09.01 18:31 2007.09.01 18:26 2007.09.01 18:22 2007.09.01 18:17 2007.09.01 18:05 2007.09.01 17:56 What did they win? Nothing. What did I (my alt) lose? Nothing. Did that prevent my alt to go where I intended her to go? No. Just time and missiles wasted. This is what makes gate camping boooooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg. She takes Velator, jump to the gate, it's camped, she gets podkilled, returns into the velator, goes back to the gate and so on.... CCP needs to do something against this. Really. This is the bad side of PVP. Gates need to go AWAY.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:37:00 - [2] No. People podkill you because they can. There is no other reason. It's just stupid mindless PVP. A capsule doesn't go anywhere in a warp disruption field anyway.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:51:00 - [3] Kill her once I understand, she could have a BPO in her Velator after all, but repeteadly is what puzzles me. My point is when someone has decided to go somewhere it's impossible to prevent it unless you camp 24/7, and this is boring on both sides isn't it?
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:03:00 - [4] The problem is it's boring. Popping a roid is slightly funnier because you don't know when it will pop.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Erotic Irony [Arguably you're not playing a serious pvp game if the death penalty doesn't force you to consider your actions carefully. I don't know of many games that really emphasize this in the same way Eve does. Maybe Lineage 2, but I haven't played it. Most "pvp" in other games is conflated PVE where the actual pvp content is quite slap-dash, wow's battlegrounds for example. Acutally, I've played EQ1 and EQ2 PVP servers, UO Siege Perilous, PVP servers on NWN1, Shadowbane and Lineage 2, I've never played WOW. Only EQ1 PVP server could be more boring that EVE gate camps because of corpse camp. i've happened to be corpse camped 6 hours and it was surely very boring. In the end I got the corpse campers killed by luring them to the guards. But they wouldn't stop on their own, just like gate campers wouldn't stop killing an alt repeteadly just because they can. I admit that regular PVP in EVE is fun and interesting, I just say that this particular form which is mindless podkilling must stop. And if the strategy would be to scare them to keep them away, after the 10th time the victim comes back you could take into consideration that it doesn't work... And to those who try to explain this is a strategy please stop because you have no idea of what strategy is, if you want victims (and them to be profitable) the first thing to do is to make them feel saecure, not kill them already when they pop the head out.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:39:00 - [6] Take it as a whine if you like, however doing this makes you predictable, and as such makes you vulnerable in PVP. Someone said we need choke points. This is wrong. EVE ancestor, Frontier Elite had jump clouds that you could analyze and you would jump after a big ship and still get to the destination before it. Removing gates would not end the gank it would end mindless killing.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:51:00 - [7] Again take it as a whine if you want, it seems you are happy with it, so it's good to know that it makes at least one player happy. There are other ways to achieve the same results and are less boring, but you don't want to hear about it it's alright. As I said you should try popping roids it's about the same fun level.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:04:00 - [8] I said one time I understand, but after the 10th time I doubt you would find faction loot in cargo, and pods don't carry cargos anyway.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:14:00 - [9] How it makes you predictable? Very well. I go on TS with my team, send the fake alt scout, you lock the Velator you blast it, and when you are locking the pod I say to my team "JUMP" they go in lock you and kill you. Anything which is repeated gets you killed. Also you lose one target on your ship wich is a weakness. If you are not sure how this makes you vulnerable maybe you should not do pvp at all. I'm not very good at it but it seems you could use some advices.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:45:00 - [10] Edited by: Falbala on 05/09/2007 15:45:33 You just thought about something that would defeat what I said but with this you wouldn't catch a shuttle or a fast frigate I think. Insta popped I doubt it the locking time on a BS is long you know.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Falbala Edited by: Falbala on 05/09/2007 15:45:33 You just thought about something that would defeat what I said but with this you wouldn't catch a shuttle or a fast frigate I think. Insta popped I doubt it the locking time on a BS is long you know. did you have ever been in a gate camp? Bubble rings any belts to you? Frigs can really escape by MWDing back to fate if they are very fast. But you won warp away witha large bubble on gate. All the gate camps where I've been caught was because there were interceptors at gate, what you say is probably true but it never happened to me. That would hurt to lose all this stuff because you need to go away with your gang no? A mobile large warp disruptor only costs 15Misk or so on market.. How many would you put? I'm unsure but you can warp away if your warp disruptor is active? Sounds unfair to me.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 16:11:00 - [12] I don't mine I was saying popping roids is funnier, you should try really.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 16:23:00 - [13] Sorry all but I prefer PVP battles like this, after grappling your opponent ship, you board it and the real fight begins: But if you are satisfied with gates and camps, it's all good for you, please continue.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 17:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Baaldor Keep your game play style to your self. Exactly, I've been away 2 years because I didn't like gate camping, and I've already cancelled again because I still don't like it. I've made 2 billions isk in the meantime but that didn't make it any funnier... It's not even DIFFICULT. It's just BORING! There is no CHALLENGE to me to go to Solitude from Sinq Laison. Just a few hours WASTED. And no you won't have my stuff don't even ask, see you in 3 years, maybe this time things will have EVOLVED.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 17:30:00 - [15] Originally by: consider telos Originally by: Falbala Edited by: Falbala on 05/09/2007 15:45:33 You just thought about something that would defeat what I said but with this you wouldn't catch a shuttle or a fast frigate I think. Insta popped I doubt it the locking time on a BS is long you know. I don't think about it, I do it that way. I said, "hac" also. Bs's to deal the damage. Hacs to track and kill the intys and pods. The fact that you are having to think about this, which is obvious to any half-assed pvp'er, shows how ignorant you are. Don't get mad, and whine more, it's just the truth. You know when my guild leader in Shadowbane teleported us on the wall of the ennemy town, that was tactics, that was brilliant, that was good PVP. What you do at gates in EVE doesn't interest me at all, it's just dull and boring. Tes I'm ignorant of it, it's really ininteresting, in the end you kill a pod, you could do that with a needle, or a mining laser I couldn't care less. I like when it is dynamic not static.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 19:01:00 - [16] Originally by: Mrmuttley @ OP Did you ever consider that gate camping is indeed boring but also nessecary to control and area. This boredom is precisely why they kill non threatening targets. The people in that camp were there and loaded up with ammo anyway and therefore popping your pod was almost inevitable. What puzzles me is instead of telling CCP this is boring change the game rules, you are all happy with it. You could exercise control otherwise, for example with watcher devices that would send you a warning when someones comes to YOUR belt. Or you could chase and intercept ships mid warp. But no, all is fine, lets camp gates and podkill the velators and ibis. Quote: I will say that at this stage you don't seem to understand that a disposable alt can be very dangerous used properly. Information is powerful therefore it is in the gate campers interest to kill the alt pilot who could be an alt scout of one of their enemies coming to see how strong the camp is and what size of force they need to bring to break up that camp. Seriously? I recognised I have little experience of PVP in EVE and then I'm accused of lecturing others... But seriously, don't tell me things like that! A dedicated spy would never ever go into a Velator through a gate to spy on you! Come on... You really mean it? Alright let me give you an hint (and sorry for the lecturing...). You go through the gate when it is empty, you move 300km (or more) away from the gate, you jettison something, 1 tritanium is perfect, you bookmark your jettison, retrieve the jettison so space looks empty again, dock or warp to a safe spot. Logout. When you come to the system, wake up your alt, warp to your bookmark and look what's going on. You will see everything, warp away when you're done and before they catch you. This is stage one of spying, there are more elaborated methods using scanner or probing. ¿ People who send alts through gates are certainly not your ennemies or you have brainless opponents.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 19:12:00 - [17] Edited by: Falbala on 05/09/2007 19:12:37 Originally by: tla gnillortmurof Originally by: Falbala But no, all is fine, lets camp gates and podkill the velators and ibis. We're certainly more happy when a battleship (and even more so when it's a whole fleet of ships) jumps through than when a Velator come in, but that doesn't mean that your scout alt's Velator is going to end up any less dead than the battleship. And how would it be if you were spotting a battleship travelling across the system on your scanners, send an interceptor to scramble it and then you would come to help the interceptor before the battleship destroys it? Wouldn't it be more fun? Why are you satisfied with gates which is the worst way of PVP in space?
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 19:26:00 - [18] Edited by: Falbala on 05/09/2007 19:25:59 Originally by: Cpt Branko I hate to say it, but you have no idea how EvE works. I have asked how you would like if it was working that way. Read what you quote please.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 19:36:00 - [19] Originally by: MrmuttleyYou have to get the scout thought the gate in the first place? [:roll: With 3 characters per account and 5000 solar systems you would need almost 1700 account to have a character in each solar system with a bunch of book marks for observation points. Even if there were only about 100 systems worth scouting (and I'm sure there are a lot more ) that would still be 30 scouting accounts. As this is not feasible for most people then moving scouting alts around is important. If you have an ennemy you have a territory. So you control 5000 systems? Interesting. You would have to be in 3 systems max to be efficient. Quote: I have sent alts through gates many, many times to check if it was camped or to observe what was going on in a camp. I would think that as it saved me losing valuable ships and/or this characters clone my actions were far from "brainless" Again I suggest that your experience with fighting in Eve is limited as is demonstrated by your comments. I was answering to someone saying "Scouts work for our ennemies, it is dangerous to let them go", you use scout exactly like I do but if you were in a war you would not do like that or you would be very stupid. I suggest you read more carefully next time.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 20:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Cpt Branko The enemy you intend to attack could very well be sitting in any of the X systems along the way. Seriously? Are you kidding? Did you ever heard about Location agents? I mean I am not an expert PVPer but don't try to fool me, I can spot you wherever you are if I want to. If you want to refute my points you have to be better than that. If I was a spy I would : ask Location agent where you hangout, go to your systems and bookmark all the gates, it would not take long to find you believe me. If I was near my HQ I would tell you where you are right now. People who send scouts through gates are not chasing you. If someone is chasing you and they know what they are doing then you will feel the difference.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 20:17:00 - [21] The last who podded me, though that was in low sec, not 0.0, I came back and rented an office at his station, that costed me 5M but I'm satisfied to know that this will cost him more money next month. I told them pod me again and I renew the bill. They didn't do that, probably they had better things to do... Money much better put than if I added it to his bounty if you ask me.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 20:22:00 - [22] Originally by: Baaldor [Its not the person in question. Its troop movements, ship types and so on. And I know for a fact that your locater agent will NOT tell you that. This is so far above your head you have no idea what you are arguing about! Just leave it alone. You should have instead been asking questions to understand before you started to debate the issue. Alright, once again for you who have troubles understanding, the statement was "We pod because they are scouts sent by our ennemies". I say "Wrong". Now you are speaking about something completely different like ships movement and not people, you tell me I have no clue what I'm talking about. It's you who have no clue.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 20:29:00 - [23] Originally by: Cpt Branko [Again, you have NO idea. Yes. People who send scouts through gates are primarily trying not to die. I have no idea but you admit my point. That works for me.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 21:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Baaldor You were speaking of locater agents. I was telling you that locater agent will NOT tell you anything about troop moments, ship types. I was trying to get you to understand what scouts and such do and capable of. So we NEUTRALIZE ALL NBSI!!! You are just ****ed because you got popped. I would not be surprised if it happens again...soon. I was speaking about locator agents because Cpt mentioned he was moving between systems... I perfectly know what scouts are for, I played one in Shadowbane. When I was spying a city I was not going visible through the main door, this is what you explain me your ennemies scout are doing. There are more than one ways around in EVE, if you trust autopilot then you know nothing, I can go from Sinq Laison to Solitude without going to Syndicate, it just takes a lot of jumps. About your threatening, it's not very wise, you could lose more than I would on that one. Specially since I have money and I'm bored I could fund someone to war your corp.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 21:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Podee}I have 130 killmails with pretty much what i see here. I loved each and every one of them. I encourage noob corpers to go out there and get podded. Once they have done so a few times they are welcome to join my corp of professional podee's. Also i make good isk stealing from gate camps. Nothing like a clone in system to keep you coming back again...and again...and again.[/quote Surely we need more like you, you deserve a donation!
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 21:41:00 - [26] In other PVP games, you claim a territory and others come to challenge you on this territory, in Shadowbane you place a bane, in Lineage you attack the castle at a fixed date. It makes things simpler you don't own a territory because you gate camp there. In Shadowbane you can declare someone ennemy of your city so all the guards would attack them on sight. You can even declare everyone your ennemy, if you are an evil nation. I know there is some territorial control now, but I don't think it extends you to put sentry guns and npc ships at gate. That's what you'd need to have real control over a territory.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 23:38:00 - [27] Originally by: consider telos Now, we know is a whine thread and not a discussion. Haha
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 01:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Nathomos Originally by: Falbala CCP needs to do something against this. Really. This is the bad side of PVP. Gates need to go AWAY. So anyone that wants to secure space and not leave room for random unknown players who could be scouts needs to be nerfed by CCP? I guess we should probably stop allowing ships to blow up too so no one feels sad, after you go into hull you can just get sent to a station and have to retrieve your ship as a ghost pod! We're all full of great ideas eh? You have understood nothing. I'm not against PVP, I've played a lot of different pvp games. I'm not good fighter except in GW maybe but I've been decent scout and healer. I don't like static PVP. EQ1 was like that when some guys were camping outside a city, a teleport spire or a zone and I didn't like it either. PVP has to be dynamic to be fun. It's a flaw in EVE admit it or not. Now PVP at an asteroid belt it's all good, I've nothing against that. What I don't like in podkill is it is systematic. Only once I have been ransomed in EVE, that was the very first time. Alright he forgot to web me so I ran away but still... it's fun to have a convo with a pirate and negociate and all... No, you prefer kaboom, target pod, kaboom, very funny indeed. Specially if you do it 9898915 a day. Pod grinding in a way, and you laugh at miners? Mining is 10 times more interesting than that...
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 01:46:00 - [29] Alright, so the veterans players who are lecturing me are: onsider telos born 2006.06.08 cpt branko born 2007.03.17 captian internet born 2007.08.22 baaldor born 2005.05.12 Chesty Laroue born 2006.09.24 Arii Smith born 2006.09.11 So, where are the 2003-2004 PVP veterans who were posting on these forums? I know a few are still around. I've readen the post about Tank CEO recently and I've recognised a few names also. Let's hear what they have to say. The truth is most of them left the game. Why?
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 02:10:00 - [30] Podee you are the reason why I don't regret to have started this thread!
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 10:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Kastar snip Alright. Learn to read first then we discuss. To the new players who read this thread. I crossed 0.0 because I wanted to go from Empire to Solitude. Contrarily to what people think you don't have to. You can perfectly go without meeting any 0.0 gate camp (but some occasional pirate camps in low sec). The difference with a pirate camp is they take a security status hit each time they kill you, which at least make things clearer. So, how do you go? Normally you would go to Reblier, Chesiette then G-CZ49 before being able to go to Solitude. It is at G-CZ49 that most gate camps are. But the autopilot lies. There is a way around that doesn't go through 0.0 (but low sec yes). So you can fool them. I knew this way but I forgot about it since I've been away 2 years. Set the autopilot to safe, set destination to Hier in Aridia, then select a Solitude station for example in Maire and Add Waypoint. Now you get a big trip around 40 jumps, but you don't go through any system in 0.0. If they want to kill you through it they take a security status. As these clever gate campers camp only the gates between Reblier and Maire, you have ways into 0.0 from Maire that don't use the gates they camp. I've looked around and even mined some crokite with my Velator while these genius were still waiting at the gates... So, don't trust the autopilot and there is likely to be more than one way around, and don't listen to these PVPers who posted they are defending their business, yet they don't see that with better game mechanics they would make more profit and have more fun...
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 13:35:00 - [32] Once you have made it to Maire in Solitude by going through Hier in Aridia, now don't go directly to 0.0. You go to Aimoguier, where you will find a station where you can relocate your clone. Then you go to Conomette and from there you can jump to 0.0. It might happen that it is camped but it is very unlikely since they are busy camping the main way from Reblier to Maire. Once in Y9-GKS you can go mine in UTKS-5, simply avoid the gate to 97X-CH...
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 14:37:00 - [33] Many PVP games don't have choke points.. How does it work in Shadowbane for example? You have scouts with tracking they spot hostiles and lead their group to them. So you could have scout ships doing this. Ships in EVE travel for: 1) they go inside system move station/belt/moon 2) outside system so they move to another star For 1) pvp is fine everybody agree I think For 2) the thing is you warp to a gate then go to next system. I just showed that you don't need to go through the choke points , if you don't trust autopilot. So it doesn't work. I would not remove gates I would remove gate camp only by forcing your opponents to intercept you during the warp. So they would scan the system for someone warping to gate, send a fast ship to intercept you mid warp, gank you. So they would pick their targets, no need to kill the newbie in velator, they see what kind of ship is travelling, pursuit and catch. This would be a dynamic way of controlling a system opposed as the static stupid way of gate camping. Same for someone warping in system, they wouldn't be able to warp scramble you as you jump in but could start chasing you. With warp speed of frigate > cruiser > indies > BS. Surely this would not be perfect need more thoughts but anything dynamic would be better than static.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 14:53:00 - [34] Originally by: Podee Nothing wrong with this mechanic. I mean i sometimes have to warp scram a carrier to get blown up. I find the more i travel and the better i learn the map, the better i am at locating gate camps and flying head first into them. It's why I asked do you find that fun? Surely for you it is! But you would find ways to get blown up in belts I'm sure. However my opinion is obviously not the one of the majority so you can continue for quite a long time I guess.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 15:03:00 - [35] And they can use the map as well to find me. This is dynamic I like that.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 15:13:00 - [36] Edited by: Falbala on 06/09/2007 15:13:44 Originally by: csebal ]Do you stop for just ONE second to think about the things you say? Alright, back on flaming... You need to read what you quote. I didn't say warp from one system to another I said intercept mid-warp when they are going to the gate. Make scrambling impossible 20km around the gate and if you want to catch them run after them.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 17:16:00 - [37] So, when you got to 0.0, for example by going to Maire through Hier in Aridia, then you avoided the gate camps by going to Aimoguier then Conomette as I previously explained, you find yourself in 0.0. How do you avoid gate camps now? You simply wait until the system is empty and you warp to every gates in the system and bookmark 300km or 500km away from them. Once you are at this distance to bookmark you need to jettison something. A cheap module or even 1 unit of tritanium is perfect! Take it back for a better effect or someone could bookmark it as well and wait for you there. Once you have bookmarked all the gates, you're almost safe now. You just need to warp to your bookmarks to check if the gate is camped then you can go normally to the gate if it is not. Of course don't be too confident as someone could be cloaked at gate and don't forget to check the moblie warp disruptors in your overview options (they are off by default). They still can catch you when you warp in the system of course, but I already explained that gate campers only drop their warp disruptors on the main ways. I don't claim you would never be caught or die this way, I just pretend you will avoid most gate camps, which are the pain of PVP in EVE. If they are not happy with it they just need to camp at every gate in every system 24/7. They like that so much that shouldn't be a problem. Now it becomes a cat and mouse game, which is way more interesting than pop the pod, which is about as interesting as mining veldspar in 1.0.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 17:35:00 - [38] The bookmark method is also interesting when you go mine in 0.0, warp to the belt and bookmark the asteroid which is the most far away from you. Then warp out and use your bookmark, this will buy you time when a pirate enters the belt either PC or NPC. A battleship can probably target you from the distance but their target time is long while a frigate will have to move closer to target you, so you have time to warp away if someone comes suddenly. At the warp point you'll probably be caught.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 17:58:00 - [39] Edited by: Falbala on 06/09/2007 18:00:40 As you can see gate camps are pointless and can be easily avoided. As Podee said you can also use the map to check for podkills, ships destroyed and pilots in space. Gate camps rely on autopilot. The gankers place their camps and disruptors on the way the autopilot shows you from point A to point B. If you don't trust autopilot you find alternate ways to go where you like. Sometimes safer than what the autopilot suggests. Use waypoints to impose your choices to the autopilot. When you enter a system always check the stargates available, I often mine in lowsec at a system where pirates never go. Why that? There is a system which is popular, it s connected to 3 systems. one of them is a low-sec dead-end and autopilot never shows it. I see 2 people/day there. If you go outside the autopilot routes you will be caught by normal players, not the brainless gate campers. Not only they don't even think about it, but they won't setup a camp all day just for you... Quote: A camp on the other side of the gate catches you, A camp without scout on this side of the gate? Haha.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.06 21:42:00 - [40] Alright it's been debated to death now, nothing new coming up. I'm not renewing account for now, I'll check back when ambulation comes out I guess.

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