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General Abitis
Lockheed Martin Systems
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just happen to see a new ad on the login screen yesterday where they extended the trial period from 14 days to 30 days. This is all and good, but the problem i see is that the time it takes to learn the game enough to determine whether if it's worth playing or not takes well beyond 30 days of playing, it takes 3-6 months of pure gameplay just to learn the gaming mechanics, takes 1 year or more for those that are slow learners (toddler players). If CCP is really serious of rebuilding the new player base from the Incarna incident then they need to make realistic changes such as limited skilling but with unlimited gameplay and, i don't like it but it might be good to have noob killing restricted so that noobs won't get pissed off on the trial and quit, secondly, there are way more to eve than just scanning, missions, and mining when you start playing, so why not add new types of tutorial missions exploring the more broader part of eve, that alone i think will cause more noobs to stay more than anything. What i would like to see is a tutorial Wormhole in real-time WH space but noobs can scan it down and warp to it and allow players to see how player owned structures operate and teach them about sleepers to influence players to go into null and WHs and have tutorial low sec systems as well teaching how pvp works in the game |

Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
238
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Features and Ideas forum is that way ---> The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |

ElQuirko
The Demonfuge Malevolent Fan Club
318
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
The reee-tarded ideas forum is...
Well, we need one, anyway. |

Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
98
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Oh god, the bots are bad enough as it is. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |

Valei Khurelem
179
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:The reee-tarded ideas forum is...
Well, we need one, anyway.
I agree! Especially for posts like yours! |

Zosius
Silver Octopus Blind Octopus
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
lol... sure, give time for all wow players to learn eve.. no thanks. All my friends that got introduced to eve and left due to "too complicated" were lineage or wow/w3 players before. Eve is a bit more complicated than just go out of a castle and hit a troll in the face with an axe. Even how to finish tutorial mission which required ejecting of a ship, took me time to explain because first timer could not understand how to finish mission...
First time I ran WH sleepers I had no idea about such thing as "pos" or D-scan. This is the most fun to play this game and the fun only lasts when there's still stuff to learn.
The complexity of this game is what drives me. It's like a damn challenge and thats what I love it. Even if i got no time to play it to fully enjoy all perks, i still keep subbed. Training skills without needing to grind 24/7 is already a win in this game.
TL;DR
Eve is no place for the weak lol. GTFO that way ------> |

Ayieka
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zosius wrote:lol... sure, give time for all wow players to learn eve.. no thanks.
this kind of elitism is real unhealthy for a game community. |

General Abitis
Lockheed Martin Systems
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
True, but have you noticed since the incarna walkout, it went from 45-65k on the weekends to the max ever now 23-28k? I like the challenge of the game myself, but you know if it gets any lower eve might turn it in, so yeah the player base may require simplifying it just a littler bit to keep it alive unfortunately, between global jobloss, and ppl having long working hours to keep a job it's acceptable in my opinion |

Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
88
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
It took me a week to decide I wanted to subscribe. Trial works fine, new player experience does not. |

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Unlimited trial = people training alts for free. |

Alpheias
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
417
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ayieka wrote:Zosius wrote:lol... sure, give time for all wow players to learn eve.. no thanks. this kind of elitism is real unhealthy for a game community.
What elitism is this that you speak of? It is a commonly known fact that wowtards that try EVE shriek in horror and flees as soon as any challenge (like reading) presents itself. Also, there are no pandas in EVE. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |

Zosius
Silver Octopus Blind Octopus
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:34:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ayieka wrote:Zosius wrote:lol... sure, give time for all wow players to learn eve.. no thanks. this kind of elitism is real unhealthy for a game community.
you are right. the more the merrier. |

Cannibal Kane
Count With Teddy Mercenaries
198
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 17:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Installed on trial and played. Fell for those new player needed in local, killed my first ship within a few hours in low sec... Subbed for a Year.
14 days is more than enough. "Demoralize the Enemy from within by Surprise, Terror, Sabotage, Assassination. This method of Guarilla Warfare is the only Method of Warfare for me"
|

cpu939
OffBeat Creations
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
i'm sure we the players can give out 60 day trials, if in 60 days your not sure eve is for you then its not for you |

General Abitis
Lockheed Martin Systems
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Patient 2428190 wrote:Unlimited trial = people training alts for free.
Don't ppl already do that with the plex system :) |

Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
972
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
I, too, never want to have to pay anything, isk or $$, for my cyno alt. |

Ai Shun
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
General Abitis wrote:I just happen to see a new ad on the login screen yesterday where they extended the trial period from 14 days to 30 days. This is all and good, but the problem i see is that the time it takes to learn the game enough to determine whether if it's worth playing or not takes well beyond 30 days of playing, it takes 3-6 months of pure gameplay just to learn the gaming mechanics, takes 1 year or more for those that are slow learners (toddler players). If CCP is really serious of rebuilding the new player base from the Incarna incident then they need to make realistic changes such as limited skilling but with unlimited gameplay and, i don't like it but it might be good to have noob killing restricted so that noobs won't get pissed off on the trial and quit, secondly, there are way more to eve than just scanning, missions, and mining when you start playing, so why not add new types of tutorial missions exploring the more broader part of eve, that alone i think will cause more noobs to stay more than anything. What i would like to see is a tutorial Wormhole in real-time WH space but noobs can scan it down and warp to it and allow players to see how player owned structures operate and teach them about sleepers to influence players to go into null and WHs and have tutorial low sec systems as well teaching how pvp works in the game
With a 14 day trial you can see the design and philosophy of the game; you get an overview of the mood and look of the game and you can dabble in the core areas you will play in. You see missions, combat, trade, industry and from there the game, by design, expects you to extrapolate the possibilities.
I'd say, given the nature of EVE and the idea that we're meant to carve our own niches in the game and fling sand with merry abandon, the duration of the trial period is perfect.
It will cull those that do not appreciate, understand and embrace the concept of EVE. And for those that do it will give them a tantalising glimpse of the future possibilities, something they will grab with both hands and subscribe.
Then, a few random thoughts on the rest of your post:
- The player base post Incarna are still out there. They are likely waiting to see what happens after Crucible, before returning.
- At most what is necessary is some work on the New Player Experience and we know CCP is looking into that.
- Infinite trial would need severe restrictions so it is not exploitable by either bots or full subscribers (Can't run a trial + sub on the same PC, but with Hyper-V it is easy) and will thus be just about useless for what you want to achieve
Oh, and. F&I is thataway ==> |

General Abitis
Lockheed Martin Systems
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Feligast wrote:I, too, never want to have to pay anything, isk or $$, for my cyno alt.
you misunderstand i was referring to a npc based pos you would maintain based on missions, or to kill |

General Abitis
Lockheed Martin Systems
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 19:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:General Abitis wrote:I just happen to see a new ad on the login screen yesterday where they extended the trial period from 14 days to 30 days. This is all and good, but the problem i see is that the time it takes to learn the game enough to determine whether if it's worth playing or not takes well beyond 30 days of playing, it takes 3-6 months of pure gameplay just to learn the gaming mechanics, takes 1 year or more for those that are slow learners (toddler players). If CCP is really serious of rebuilding the new player base from the Incarna incident then they need to make realistic changes such as limited skilling but with unlimited gameplay and, i don't like it but it might be good to have noob killing restricted so that noobs won't get pissed off on the trial and quit, secondly, there are way more to eve than just scanning, missions, and mining when you start playing, so why not add new types of tutorial missions exploring the more broader part of eve, that alone i think will cause more noobs to stay more than anything. What i would like to see is a tutorial Wormhole in real-time WH space but noobs can scan it down and warp to it and allow players to see how player owned structures operate and teach them about sleepers to influence players to go into null and WHs and have tutorial low sec systems as well teaching how pvp works in the game With a 14 day trial you can see the design and philosophy of the game; you get an overview of the mood and look of the game and you can dabble in the core areas you will play in. You see missions, combat, trade, industry and from there the game, by design, expects you to extrapolate the possibilities. I'd say, given the nature of EVE and the idea that we're meant to carve our own niches in the game and fling sand with merry abandon, the duration of the trial period is perfect. It will cull those that do not appreciate, understand and embrace the concept of EVE. And for those that do it will give them a tantalising glimpse of the future possibilities, something they will grab with both hands and subscribe. Then, a few random thoughts on the rest of your post:
- The player base post Incarna are still out there. They are likely waiting to see what happens after Crucible, before returning.
- At most what is necessary is some work on the New Player Experience and we know CCP is looking into that.
- Infinite trial would need severe restrictions so it is not exploitable by either bots or full subscribers (Can't run a trial + sub on the same PC, but with Hyper-V it is easy) and will thus be just about useless for what you want to achieve
Oh, and. F&I is thataway ==>
but don't ppl find exploits anyway like the plex system,. using plex to make 16 subs to mine out entire systems all of which plays for free while making billions of isk for yourself in the process?
|

Ai Shun
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 21:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
General Abitis wrote:but don't ppl find exploits anyway like the plex system,. using plex to make 16 subs to mine out entire systems all of which plays for free while making billions of isk for yourself in the process?
That is not an exploit. Nor is a PLEX free. For it to exist, somebody has to pay CCP. With your scheme, that payment for the PLEX would not exist.
|

Reilly Duvolle
Hydra Squadron
261
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 21:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
So... basically you want to have EVE as a Free 2 play game? I think we went over this last june... |

Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate
690
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Ayieka wrote:Zosius wrote:lol... sure, give time for all wow players to learn eve.. no thanks. this kind of elitism is real unhealthy for a game community. What elitism is this that you speak of? It is a commonly known fact that wowtards that try EVE shriek in horror and flees as soon as any challenge (like reading) presents itself. Also, there are no pandas in EVE.
While you are 100% right about the panda thing, I think that attitude may bring the players into an irresolvable conflict of interests with ccp. You cannot really ask of a company to change their product in a way that it scares away potential paying customers, only to make the older subscribers feel better about themselves....
Posting only nice things for 13 days. If anything I post should offend you, please let me know ingame by repeatedly podkilling me. Thank you. |

Ai Shun
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Alpheias wrote:Ayieka wrote:Zosius wrote:lol... sure, give time for all wow players to learn eve.. no thanks. this kind of elitism is real unhealthy for a game community. What elitism is this that you speak of? It is a commonly known fact that wowtards that try EVE shriek in horror and flees as soon as any challenge (like reading) presents itself. Also, there are no pandas in EVE. While you are 100% right about the panda thing, I think that attitude may bring the players into an irresolvable conflict of interests with ccp. You cannot really ask of a company to change their product in a way that it scares away potential paying customers, only to make the older subscribers feel better about themselves....
But what if the change scares away the old customers? Whilst an influx of new customers is desirable, losing a loyal customer base that has provided a regular revenue stream for years just to attract potential customers seems a bit off. |

met worst
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
64
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
General Abitis wrote:True, but have you noticed since the incarna walkout, it went from 45-65k on the weekends to the max ever now 23-28k? Did I misread you?
Weekends are 46-48k+ and most days when I log in it's 40k+
I'm from Aus so morning log in (6:30 am) is 20:00 UTC - roughly evening for eurozone.
|

Ai Shun
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
met worst wrote:General Abitis wrote:True, but have you noticed since the incarna walkout, it went from 45-65k on the weekends to the max ever now 23-28k? Did I misread you? Weekends are 46-48k+ and most days when I log in it's 40k+ I'm from Aus so morning log in (6:30 am) is 20:00 UTC - roughly evening for eurozone.
He also wanders about claiming you can buy a PLEX and sell it within minutes for 2B ISK. I wouldn't put too much faith in anything General Abitis says. |

Zimmy Zeta
Battle Force Industries Tactical Invader Syndicate
690
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote:Alpheias wrote:Ayieka wrote:Zosius wrote:lol... sure, give time for all wow players to learn eve.. no thanks. this kind of elitism is real unhealthy for a game community. What elitism is this that you speak of? It is a commonly known fact that wowtards that try EVE shriek in horror and flees as soon as any challenge (like reading) presents itself. Also, there are no pandas in EVE. While you are 100% right about the panda thing, I think that attitude may bring the players into an irresolvable conflict of interests with ccp. You cannot really ask of a company to change their product in a way that it scares away potential paying customers, only to make the older subscribers feel better about themselves.... But what if the change scares away the old customers? Whilst an influx of new customers is desirable, losing a loyal customer base that has provided a regular revenue stream for years just to attract potential customers seems a bit off.
Sure. They will have to find a good balance between the needs of the older and the newer customers. But even the older customers will someday quit. If no new players come at all, the game will then slowly die- and I am just assuming that the vast majority of CCP devs like their jobs and want to keep them, so getting new players into eve is inevitable. Posting only nice things for 13 days. If anything I post should offend you, please let me know ingame by repeatedly podkilling me. Thank you. |

General Abitis
Lockheed Martin Systems
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:General Abitis wrote:but don't ppl find exploits anyway like the plex system,. using plex to make 16 subs to mine out entire systems all of which plays for free while making billions of isk for yourself in the process? That is not an exploit. Nor is a PLEX free. For it to exist, somebody has to pay CCP. With your scheme, that payment for the PLEX would not exist.
actually you pay isk for plex, though they now have it setup where CCP is trying to sucker noobs to buy plex to make it look like you can play for free longer |

Ai Shun
141
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Sure. They will have to find a good balance between the needs of the older and the newer customers. But even the older customers will someday quit. If no new players come at all, the game will then slowly die- and I am just assuming that the vast majority of CCP devs like their jobs and want to keep them, so getting new players into eve is inevitable.
True, they need to balance the new player experience with the core design appeal of EVE as it is now. I can imagine it must be a very difficult job maintaining the original philosophy without selling out, while still attracting a MMO generation that has been fed on paper-mache, simplistic games.
Interesting though, from the CSM Minutes:
CSM Minutes wrote:The meeting ended with some fun data about subscribers GÇô apparently if a user has been subscribed to EVE for three years or more, that user is very unlikely to leave EVE
That is from page 6. There is some interesting reading there on players and behavior.
Edit:
General Albitis wrote:actually you pay isk for plex, though they now have it setup where CCP is trying to sucker noobs to buy plex to make it look like you can play for free longer
And where does the PLEX come from? Does it just magically rain like mana from the heavens?
Somebody had to PAY CCP real world cash for it, then Redeem it and put it on the marketplace. It is more expensive, dollar for day, than a subscription and thus makes CCP more money than a subscription does. (1 PLEX from CCP is $19.95. 1 month sub from CCP is $14.95) |

Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
27
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
disagree. It really only takes a few weeks to determine if you will like the game. If someone likes the trial, they can sub for just a month or so to further test it On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |

General Abitis
Lockheed Martin Systems
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 22:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ai Shun wrote:Zimmy Zeta wrote:Sure. They will have to find a good balance between the needs of the older and the newer customers. But even the older customers will someday quit. If no new players come at all, the game will then slowly die- and I am just assuming that the vast majority of CCP devs like their jobs and want to keep them, so getting new players into eve is inevitable. True, they need to balance the new player experience with the core design appeal of EVE as it is now. I can imagine it must be a very difficult job maintaining the original philosophy without selling out, while still attracting a MMO generation that has been fed on paper-mache, simplistic games. Interesting though, from the CSM Minutes: CSM Minutes wrote:The meeting ended with some fun data about subscribers GÇô apparently if a user has been subscribed to EVE for three years or more, that user is very unlikely to leave EVE That is from page 6. There is some interesting reading there on players and behavior. Edit: General Albitis wrote:actually you pay isk for plex, though they now have it setup where CCP is trying to sucker noobs to buy plex to make it look like you can play for free longer And where does the PLEX come from? Does it just magically rain like mana from the heavens? Somebody had to PAY CCP real world cash for it, then Redeem it and put it on the marketplace. It is more expensive, dollar for day, than a subscription and thus makes CCP more money than a subscription does. (1 PLEX from CCP is $19.95. 1 month sub from CCP is $14.95)
lol CCP seeds it in the market but now i think they let the off-game plex buyers seed it in the game now which is very bad considering the potiential of players farming unlimited isk for those that are wealthy in life |
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