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fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.18 10:51:00 - [31] Originally by: CweerHawk Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Gaogan It's called get a bs gang and blow the jammer up. This. You don't need a blob, you need bs. Simple no? you would consider that the POS has actually got some guns scram and stuff eh... maybe not? Remote reppers/logistics drones are your friend. Allied forces strike coalition fleet, wrecking for toys thrown out of pram damage ^^
Hellaciouss Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.18 10:55:00 - [32] Originally by: Gaogan It's called get a bs gang and blow the jammer up. All that needs to be said really. Get a battleship gang and blow it up! Takes team work and strategy (remote rep, rep drones, keeping velocity up) but a BS gang can easily take down cyno jammers. I think they are perfect as is right now.
GEEE Man	Posted - 2007.09.18 12:43:00 - [33] Yep, and very boring, they should be greatly reduced in HP or massivly increased in price to make it balanced. Consider the price of capitals and mods vs price of a module that stops you using a capital in that system (SYSTEM WIDE) and takes a blob to kill in any reasonable time. Sitting shooting some little field jammer is not my idea of fun, Game is supposed to be fun no?
GEEE Man	Posted - 2007.09.22 01:02:00 - [34] CCP get off ur rear ends and do somthing about this!!
0mega GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.22 02:18:00 - [35] The issue isn't really the low cost (you can only have one per system so spamming isnt an option), nor high hp (the attacker should be there for some time to damage the target). Instead the main issue with cyno jammers is that they're so easily defended. Attacking one is a very high risk for the invaders and very low risk for the defenders. In fact all the defenders really risk is the need to repair pos modules. As an alternative I'd suggest this. Make cyno jammers anchorable inside a shield. Make them only anchorable at small towers. Give a tower with a jammer anchored at it a 300% strontium consumption penalty. An invading force now needs to reinforce a small tower that has considerably lower defenses. The defenders get time to rally defense forces, but not so much time that attackers cant patrol the area if they want.
Hellaciouss Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.22 06:43:00 - [36] Edited by: Hellaciouss on 22/09/2007 06:44:25 Originally by: GEEE Man Sitting shooting some little field jammer is not my idea of fun, game is supposed to be fun no? Game stops being fun for the other people who don't have 100 dreads, 50 carriers, 10 motherships, and 5 titans being able to warp into a system any time they want. Cyno Jammers require BS's fleets. If there was no Cyno Jammer there would be no point in flying any other ship. Systems would be nearly undefendable without having the same cap numbers. In my opinion the HP should actually be increased.
Karbowiak Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.23 00:03:00 - [37] why not just give the Cyno Jammer a "bad" bonus that affects the whole tower.. Increase fuel recuirement by 100% and -50% shield on all the towers in system That would atleast make the corp/alliance hurt a bit more on the wallet side, and at the same time make the pos itself easier to take down. So after the cyno jammer is dead, you can cyno in your capitals and down those posses even faster cuz they have 50% less shield than normal! ;) Would make anyone think twice before putting one up i guess
Pirate John	Posted - 2007.09.24 15:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Karbowiak why not just give the Cyno Jammer a "bad" bonus that affects the whole tower.. Increase fuel recuirement by 100% and -50% shield on all the towers in system That would atleast make the corp/alliance hurt a bit more on the wallet side, and at the same time make the pos itself easier to take down. So after the cyno jammer is dead, you can cyno in your capitals and down those posses even faster cuz they have 50% less shield than normal! ;) Would make anyone think twice before putting one up i guess They should also be limited to systems with outposts only (a change in the sov. rules such as sov 3 + outpost, would work fine). Lots of potential capital based fights are being destroyed because people have a cyno jammer in a random 0.0 system/chokepoint and then a jump bridge for their own caps.
Woot1	Posted - 2007.09.24 22:21:00 - [39] not sure what your all shouting about if you know how to defeat pos's no matter how many weapons they have you can take them jammers down very easy every pos setup in this game has a weekness finding that weekness is down to your logistic teams stop moaning and deal with it!!! if you all stoped spamming forums with **** and start playing the game you will find out how easy it is
Jehovah Cooper Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.25 03:11:00 - [40] I'm curious how much experience some of the people in this thread have with POS warfare since the cyno jammers have become deployable. I've had quite a little bit on both sides as my corp hosted a cyno jammer in a border station system - during the most intense fighting there I'd run POS guns and helped defend and repair the POS ceaselessly at times. And I've also been in quite a few battleship gangs where we had to grind that puppy down. Although I dislike all the damaging/repping that was introduced with Rev 2 I think the cyno jammer itself is a pretty good mechanism for creating points of conflict. Yes it doesn't fix the blob issue but it did create some of the coolest battles I've seen in Eve. Also it gives the battleship an important strategic role which I think is needed; sure they are needed anyway to lockdown and secure a system but cyno jammer presents occaisions where the battleships have a job to do and more planning is necessary to ensure they can get it done in time for caps to get in and have time to work before people have to start logging etc. It does give defenders an advantage but defenders should have advantages considering how much they may have invested in certain systems.
Xeliya Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.25 06:30:00 - [41] Edited by: Xeliya on 25/09/2007 06:31:47 Simple solution, make it require CPU. That way it cannot be online till the tower is saved. To take a jammer down now takes long enough the owners of a POS should have ample time to jump on the POS guns and hurt the enemy BS fleet pretty good. And a POS setup right is VERY deadly. Now if you have time to setup defense of the jammer it is nearly impossible to kill if the POS is setup right and you camp it with you fleet and carriers/moms to remote rep it. That is where they become over powered. Carriers+POS+Fleet vs Fleet = you lose.
Rosemary Pen	Posted - 2007.09.25 14:18:00 - [42] If you did not have jammers in the game all people would do is jump from system and DD everyone they find. you would have Cap ships sitting and blowing up everything in the 0.0 areas. there would be only 1 allance left in 0.0 in a month (the one with the most titans which are overpowered as they are imo IWIN button anyone?) Jammers stop this kinda thing happening it was well thought out imo
GEEE Man	Posted - 2007.09.25 19:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Karbowiak why not just give the Cyno Jammer a "bad" bonus that affects the whole tower.. Increase fuel recuirement by 100% and -50% shield on all the towers in system That would atleast make the corp/alliance hurt a bit more on the wallet side, and at the same time make the pos itself easier to take down. So after the cyno jammer is dead, you can cyno in your capitals and down those posses even faster cuz they have 50% less shield than normal! ;) Would make anyone think twice before putting one up i guess Brilliant BRILLIANT idea :) ----------------- Originally by: Rosemary Pen If you did not have jammers in the game all people would do is jump from system and DD everyone they find. you would have Cap ships sitting and blowing up everything in the 0.0 areas. there would be only 1 allance left in 0.0 in a month (the one with the most titans which are overpowered as they are imo IWIN button anyone?) Jammers stop this kinda thing happening it was well thought out imo I dont think that was the way it was intended to be honest with you, not 100% anyway. so your saying - Invent Titans, and then render them useless, thats mad!
SUNscatcher Caldari Pacificsun	Posted - 2007.09.26 02:52:00 - [44] Maybe cyno jammers should be anchored in space and not at a pos, say make a requirement for them to be 1 au from anything. then people have something to go after and people have something to defend, ship vs ship.
Aerick Dawn Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.27 14:00:00 - [45] Against a POS with gunners, a BS fleet is going to get pretty shredded taking it out. Then the caps jump in and reinforce the tower, only to find a repped up cyno jammer that lots of people died for back online even though the POS is reinforced. 3 guys with gunnery skills can seriously hurt a BS fleet if the POS is setup irregardless of remote repping capabilities. This only encourages blob warfare, and not at least adding CPU to the jammer seems like quite a startling oversight by CCP. Also, SOV requirements to put such a powerful module up should require more than having POS's in one system for X number of days. You should have constellation SOV. __________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong.
GEEE Man	Posted - 2007.09.30 14:55:00 - [46] Still kinda wondering if they have any intentions to fix this bs?
General StarScream Cybertronic Decepticons	Posted - 2007.09.30 14:59:00 - [47] cuse with jammers you give smaller alliance a fighting chance if they got some brain and spunk
SUNscatcher Caldari Pacificsun	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:27:00 - [48] Originally by: General StarScream cuse with jammers you give smaller alliance a fighting chance if they got some brain and spunk ROFL, cyno jammers protect large alliances from small ones. you got it totally backwards dude !!
CweerHawk	Posted - 2007.10.06 19:29:00 - [49] Originally by: General StarScream cuse with jammers you give smaller alliance a fighting chance if they got some brain and spunk Think before you speak :(
GEEE Man	Posted - 2007.10.08 14:39:00 - [50] Talk to me ccp
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:41:00 - [51] I think that cyno jammers, while sometimes a humongous pain, are overall just about right. There are things related to cyno jammers that you could adjust, but I wouldn't touch their HP at all. I see the problem as less that they take a long time to destroy or require a "blob", but more that a POS defended by even a skeleton crew can repel that "blob". I've considered maybe increasing the powergrid use for the cyno jammer so that you can't put as many guns on the tower, but given current mechanics, I don't think that would really do much. Right now, if a module gets disabled, there's no need to repair it, just anchor another one after it goes down and it's like nothing happened. Limiting the firepower of the POS itself doesn't really do that much in this case. I think maybe it'd be better to do some other little things, like maybe looking at the ability to control starbase turrets. The ability in itself is fine and all, but one thing that kind of bugs me is that manned turrets lock faster that normal, twice as fast if I remember correctly. As if the fact that they can focus fire instead of shooting wildly wasn't enough, this makes assault with subcapitals far more difficult, since a BS can get locked in 12 seconds by manned turrets. I wonder if it'd be possible to make it so manned turrets lock just as fast as unmanned, at normal speed. Despite that, they would of course still have the benefit focus fire. Another thing is range. Long range medium and even small turrets can hit out beyond maximum targeting range (250km) with close-range ammo and the right kind of tower. I wonder if perhaps EVE is ready to undo the locking range cap put in years ago, or at least extend it out to perhaps 350km. This way, you could create chains of logistics ships to remotely assist sieging battleships as they shoot the tower with some extra safety from being outside of some but not all of the tower's guns. Another very annoying thing is when people actually do remotely repair POS modules mid-siege. Take for example a mothership, or a group of motherships. They have repair ranges of up to 50km, but the modules will never be that far from the edge of the shield. They can just poke their noses out of the shield, rep the module up while its being shot, and duck back inside the shield if anything puts it in danger. Since they can't be webbed, there's no way to prevent them from escaping, and instapopping the mothership is obviously not an option. I wonder if it would be possible to make it so you can't use remote repair modules within a certain proximity of the edge of the shield, giving even a small chance for an attacker to force non-consensual combat. Being able to web supercaps would also be nice, even with reduced effectiveness, because it's either that or bumping them, which is too likely to make them desync. A smaller issue is that a lot of POS modules are very hard to hit because of low signature radius. Medium turrets are the most dangerous to battleships, but have a 125m3. Cruise missiles and torpedoes, which you would think would be well-suited for POS sieges, do reduced damage no matter what to these modules, and honestly, I don't think that's the way it should be. Medium turrets and possibly small turrets should have their signature radiuses increased to compensate for how missiles work, and since they aren't moving anyway, I don't see why not. So yes, while I do think that cyno jammers could use a little work, after really thinking about it, if there's anything I wouldn't touch, it's their hitpoints.
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2007.10.20 00:29:00 - [52] Edited by: Grendelsbane on 20/10/2007 00:30:09 It certainly does make sense that a static target would be easier to hit. One thing sticks out at me: Quote: Sitting shooting some little field jammer is not my idea of fun, Game is supposed to be fun no? But shooting POS guns is? I don't find shooting POS modules fun, either. Or mining rocks or ice, or ratting. And I sure as hell don't like scouting. But it's not the specific activity I'm doing that I get enjoyment from, it's the overall thrust of whatever it is we're engaged in. Zooming about in 0.0 and playing banana republic isn't fun because you get to shoot cyno jammers, it's fun because it's HARD, and you defeated someone else to do it.
LordVodka Earned In Blood Black Sun Cartel	Posted - 2007.10.20 08:29:00 - [53] I'll make this short and quick, theres the door use it, don't make a threat you can't back up if your going to quit, save us all the crying and do it.
CelticKnight Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.10.20 14:35:00 - [54] hate to say it but this man speaketh the truth :( 80man goonswarm gang took 3 HOURS to nail a cynojammer the other day :( although <3 u CCP the lag was more then bareable.. 80 ships on grid and well over 200 logistics drones (repping each other back..) no real lag tbh :)
Cyberus Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.20 15:40:00 - [55] Edited by: Cyberus on 20/10/2007 15:40:55 the Hp is not an problem on that module. It can be took down with 50-100 bs gang fast enogh. The real problem will only come when the about 10 carriers just put nose out of shield and start repair that jammer. then you are completely migthless against it. So my idea is not discrase the HP or incrase the price but just: a) make it anchoreble from POS shield not closer then 60KM so defenders must make a choise to offer they ships for repair or not and also if they do they will need at strike gang for the atackers to support they own caps. or b) let it range how it is now but limit the posseble repairs on the cynojammer to 2 carriers/motherships (insted of 10-15) At this moment everybody knows that the best defence of system while the POS cynojammer atacked is the get 10-20 carriers at POS and repair the damn module without a putting even real figth against those battleships. Very silly idea. So basicly: if you can get lots carriers in your POS shield basicly you win the figth with your POS becuase even 100 bs gang will be not able to kill that jammer with so much repairs on it. goin after carriers has no sence as well cause once they are targeted its take very low time to get those back in shield before enogh damage can be done on those.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.20 16:09:00 - [56] Well only thing i have to say: anti-blob weapon fails again. Pretty much CCP needs to learn that people WILL blob whatever they do. And putting yet another "takes 5 hours to destroy" module before you can engage hostile fleet wont help it.
Shadow Researcher	Posted - 2007.10.20 18:50:00 - [57] The Idiot is strong in this one . A decent gang , about 30 ppl can obliterate the jamer whit ease .
Cyberus Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.20 20:03:00 - [58] Originally by: Shadow Researcher The Idiot is strong in this one . A decent gang , about 30 ppl can obliterate the jamer whit ease . what you know about jammers? did you ever try to kill those while they get repaired? I agree there is no much trouble with killing those on POS what is completely undefendet by players your 30 gang bs's will be toasted in 30 minets only by POS guns. I have been twice in gang trying to get that module down and we has more then 30 bs's in gang and i can tell you its not so easy as you say. Its take hours and hours to complete that job if you are lucky.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.21 11:17:00 - [59] Yep - poster thet replied to me is ********. 30x gank bs = 30k dps versus 15mil hp = 10minutes of shooting non stop. Thats considering: sitting in optimal, not moving, not rewarping, not being attacked, not having cyno jammer repped. And ofc. Having 30 gankbs (= pretty high skills). Now add 50-100 defenders. And suddenly 30 ppl arent enough. Nor are 80-130 (your 30 over the top). But well... researchers suck at pvp, so get a clue before you start discussing sth.
General Oniell Rulers Of Mankind Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.10.22 18:57:00 - [60] at the rate it would take u to take down the jammer, youd be better off just takin down the tower and guns instead

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