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Taurar
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Posted - 2004.02.12 17:54:00 -
[1]
you can get a copy of the log here at EVE Gate
http://www.evegate.net/exclusives/dev019.php
Malachlite incognito |
Sequin
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:00:00 -
[2]
Good chat, but it had almost no questions that had anything to do with mining/trading, and almost everything to do with shiva and fighting.. I guess we non-pvprs are a minority now:|
^A Raem Civre Original
EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original.
[i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything
Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork!
b]
We are evil exploiters! |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:18:00 -
[3]
hmm, almost sounds like they r not gonna update the game untill Shiva (may)?
"We brake for nobody"
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Jael
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:27:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
hmm, almost sounds like they r not gonna update the game untill Shiva (may)?
Except for the entire section which said:
Quote:
<hellmar> We are making sure that we will not have a dry spell of new things to play with as was between Gemini and castor
<hellmar> we have already lined up some content to trickle out and our improvements to project management process allow us to do fix patches and UI backports from Shiva
<hellmar> so exciting times are ahead :)
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:28:00 -
[5]
much better. no idea though, how a chat can be done without asking them for improvements/new ideas on the lag issue.
shiva (may) means not before autumn, most likely. everything "later" sounds like chrismas to me. sigh.
this is particularly sad on this one:
Quote:
<TomB> right now my only excuse is that the pirates in the droid fields are just freelancing pirates that don't know about your standing and dislike ore thieves, so they shoot before asking :x
<TomB> but later on, the NPC system will get better work on, this has been a feature request for a long time
Quote:
<Solaris_CCP> Warp disruptors are currently dropped as NPC loot and should appear soon on the market I expect.
if only i could still thrust them...
Quote:
<hellmar> all in all making it more challenging to control "land"
<hellmar> it was way too easy when you could camp like 1-3 gates to block of access of up to 3 regions
control? they ve got not the slightest clue. sad.
Quote:
<Jash_Illian> Question: has any consideration been given to creating a 'middle ground' for players? An area where aggression is limited through mechanics (limited navy protection and perhaps faction based sentry gun response) to exist between the absolute safety of empire space and the freeforall of non-empire space?
<hellmar> We have though much about this
<hellmar> specially reagarding NPC empire warfare
<hellmar> i.e. create a system with optin mechanics and reduced death penalty
<hellmar> We like the effort that players have created them selves with frigate combat leagues, etc.
<hellmar> We all know that consentual pvp is fun but loosing all your effort is of course not fun
<hellmar> other than empire conflict we have also though of a security interval that could function along the lines of ships can be destroyed but no podding
<hellmar> That would allow for better support were player could frigate sparr with out having to risk loosing implants or skill points
<hellmar> So we are all for creating such an area and are thinking up ways that are not expliotable
<hellmar> doing that is how ever tricky, you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S
<hellmar> so we thing long and hard before changing these aspect of the game, although we want to move in this direction
i ll call this an misunderstanding, if ever there has been one.
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:28:00 -
[6]
Quote:
<netWilk> question for devs: Will it be possible to limit purchasers of my goods on market based on my/my corps standing toward them? If for example, my standing toward them is -10.0, they cannot purchase my goods.
Uuuuh, heard of alts? This is just as dumb as trying to embargo PC pirates.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Onubis
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:33:00 -
[7]
"That will be in Shiva"
well, thats just great isnt it! 
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
"It is better to die on our feet than live on our knees"
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Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2004.02.12 22:00:00 -
[8]
hmmm.... MAY!!! Well that just erks me to no end. If Unreal 2k4 comes out next month as planned I might take a vacation until may.
BTW : only 2 good things came out of this worthless dev chat again ( a half-boned answer about caldari ships and an eta on Shiva ). However, everyone seems to be used to a crap devchat so oh well.
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:24:00 -
[9]
Quote:
<TomB> We have been creating new skills for missile specialization (drones as well), and in next week or two we will take a new look at the Caldari ships.
w00t!
My lucky day. After endless complains about this it turns out that TomB has listened.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.02.13 03:55:00 -
[10]
missles...they need to be BOOSTED...? i love usin missles atm and there is no competition between a gunned ship and my raven for damage..i dont understand what u ppl are whinning about 
_______________________________________________
Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
lash
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Posted - 2004.02.13 05:16:00 -
[11]
Edited by: lash on 13/02/2004 05:17:45
Only 3 changes really need to be made to missiles right now.
Reduced cpu on the launchers
Cheaper cost
and faster build times.
That alone would make alot of people very happy.
*edit* new specialized drone and missile skills, yay!
--------------
"You ever hear of the Seattle Seven? That was me. And, um, six other guys." |
Ubix
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Posted - 2004.02.13 07:44:00 -
[12]
Quote:
missles...they need to be BOOSTED...? i love usin missles atm and there is no competition between a gunned ship and my raven for damage..i dont understand what u ppl are whinning about
I tend to a agree ... when you're sitting there firing turrets, the damage wavers according to the accurancy of the shot (minus the shield armor mods on the target). Missles are a constant (minus mods) with little cap use. I can't see what needs to be changed (other than that they need faster production speeds).
UBIX
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Zoriander
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Posted - 2004.02.13 09:11:00 -
[13]
Quote:
<hellmar> also are we looking into removing missile splash damage all together
<hellmar> as it doesn't seem to be used for anything but griefing
<hellmar> I would very much like to hear players opinion on that
I would hate to see missile splash damage removed.
This would seriously reduce combat tactics as the difference between guns/lasers and missiles is lost.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.13 09:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: McWatt on 13/02/2004 13:08:43
Quote:
I would hate to see missile splash damage removed.
This would seriously reduce combat tactics as the difference between guns/lasers and missiles is lost.
find it rather weird what ppl call tactic these days.
destroying your own missiles? wipeing out drones? auto pod/can kill? or the good old "bring in concord" thing?
i m still looking for someone who did damage to more than one ship on purpose!
fix splash or remove it!
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:05:00 -
[15]
Regarding the dueling between frigates:
Why not make a duel dome? A gigantic sphere in space that you can enter and where you can fight each other. The moment your ship blows your dragged out the dome.
This dome has a 500km range and looks like some stadion with advertisement etc.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 13/02/2004 13:14:46
Quote:
missles...they need to be BOOSTED...? i love usin missles atm and there is no competition between a gunned ship and my raven for damage..i dont understand what u ppl are whinning about
Missiles aren't fast enough for long range warfare, that's their achilles heel right now.
They need more speed, people don't fight at 20km that often anymore, it's usually 50-80km now, it takes too long to reach targets when your missile only goes 1920m/s, people warp away from them, it's silly. That's the main reason Caldari ships tend to not do as much damage as they should be able to.
I fly a Raven myself and I was very pleased with it until the battlefield shifted from 20-30km to much greater ranges, current missile speed simply doesn't cut it anymore.
Honestly what good is the long targetting range Caldari ships have, and the high optimals on railguns if missiles are total garbage at long range? If those three factors do not mix well together, Caldari ships are flawed, wouldn't you agree?
Cost/Production on missiles is also bit out of wack, but I think that's getting addressed.
Splash damage on missiles should get removed, there are no 'tactics' involved with missile splash, it either destroys your own missiles or gets you destroyed by CONCORD, so why have it? Leave it on torpedoes, that gives torpedoes a very defined role, huge blast radius AOE missiles.
Other than that missiles are okay, as far as the raw damage they deal.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:45:00 -
[17]
I use splash damage on torpedo's for drones, thats the only splash i use... Wonder what torpedo's going to get for special bonus, maybe dmg increase perhaps.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.13 14:09:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Regarding the dueling between frigates:
Why not make a duel dome? A gigantic sphere in space that you can enter and where you can fight each other. The moment your ship blows your dragged out the dome.
This dome has a 500km range and looks like some stadion with advertisement etc.
still doubt that this question was about duels.
if i had to rank necessary changes, a duel dome would score about place 783, putting its arrival date (soon) somewhere in the roaring twenties of our century.
fixing splash should solve this issue, "no risk, please" ppl always can simply use chaos.
what we need is a middle ground of normal fighting.
this would naturally be low sec empire space. the first obvious move is the removal of the sentry guns. they should be replaced by flexible police response.
basically,concord ships would try to balance the odds in any fights, levelling the playing field.
this would happen with regard of system/pilots security level, faction standings, thread level, location and time.
complex. looks like this will happen after the dome.
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GALAGA
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Posted - 2004.02.13 15:52:00 -
[19]
I like the splash damage at least on torpedos.
I waited till an ore theif got close enough to his 3 other buddies in cruisers and then sent 8-10 torps his way and was able to podkill him and severely damage their cruisers.
They work great when the enemy is in a tight formation.
But removing the splash from all other types is fine with me.
And I agree with Jim on their speed when we fight long range it seems we can destroy the other ship with our guns before the missiles ever arrive, only to see them destroy the cannisters.
-----------------------------------------------
"The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not." |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.13 17:14:00 -
[20]
i think that Torps should stay Slow, but Cruise how ever should be faster...
"We brake for nobody"
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Anna Heart
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Posted - 2004.02.13 19:18:00 -
[21]
I still am curious what will be done about torps... maybe CCP will forget entirily that their advantage was splash damage since not many use them as cruise missiles or just make them do next to no damage and not fit in luanchers and easily shot down before they even become a potential threat to a ship of any class... or was that another munition with a great deal of potential royaly f'd up?... 
Mines are something I wanna see adressed. Everyone wonders why it's so hard to secure alliance borders well HELLO can't gfet sentry guns, disruptors are hard to find, and mines well they just don't work. so you all have to sit there 24/7 only to have whoever is invading race through as the server comes up and people are gradaly trickling online.
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.16 14:39:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Missiles aren't fast enough for long range warfare, that's their achilles heel right now.
They need more speed, people don't fight at 20km that often anymore, it's usually 50-80km now, it takes too long to reach targets when your missile only goes 1920m/s, people warp away from them, it's silly. That's the main reason Caldari ships tend to not do as much damage as they should be able to.
I agree with you to a point Jim, however at 1920m/s that is already 3x faster than the fastest ship currently out there (Shuttles)
I personally dont want the missiles going any faster than 4x any of our fastest ships out there.
However, what I would like to see is the missile not loosing its lock on a ship if it enters into warp, I would rather that they have it keep on tracking until the ship actually enters into its warp speeds and then losses it lock and detonates.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.16 19:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 16/02/2004 19:40:22
Quote:
I agree with you to a point Jim, however at 1920m/s that is already 3x faster than the fastest ship currently out there (Shuttles)
 and turrets ammo goes how fast? How much of a chance doesa shuttle have against a tachyon or 1400mm howitzer? Why should they have a chance against a cruise missile?
Quote:
I personally dont want the missiles going any faster than 4x any of our fastest ships out there.
Why shouldn't missiles be faster than ships? There are such things as smartbombs and defenders.
Quote:
However, what I would like to see is the missile not loosing its lock on a ship if it enters into warp, I would rather that they have it keep on tracking until the ship actually enters into its warp speeds and then losses it lock and detonates.
Yes, that needs fixed badly.
Large missiles should have a more difficult time hitting small targets, but that's about the only issue I see with faster missiles.
Missiles are not fast enough, they just aren't.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.17 02:47:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Mordessa on 17/02/2004 02:52:55
Quote:
and turrets ammo goes how fast? How much of a chance doesa shuttle have against a tachyon or 1400mm howitzer? Why should they have a chance against a cruise missile?
If I get what your saying here, you basically want missiles to go as fast as a 1400 round or a tachyeon laser.
Look at the physics of the two items your talking about. One is launched out of a tube with tremendous force of an explosion and the other is a beam of light emitted from a single point.
Alas a missile is a weapon with an engine strapped/mounted to it.
If you were to have a missile go as fast as the two items you described, or any other item, it would be meaningless to have a tracking system even on a missile as you would have to line up your whole ship in line with the target.
I mean can you imagine the horrendous turning arc of a missile fired off 60 degrees to the right and 80 kilometers from its intended target if its speed was say 2-5 km/s I seriously doubt the missile would ever make the turn, hence why I am saying you would practically line up your ship towards your target to even have a hope of hitting it.
Quote:
Missiles are not fast enough, they just aren't.
Make them too fast and you will never hit anything.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 07:42:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 17/02/2004 10:35:43
Quote:
If I get what your saying here, you basically want missiles to go as fast as a 1400 round or a tachyeon laser.
No, that would be instant, I think 2400-3200m/s base speed for a cruise missile would be adequate if it had trouble homing in on frigates at short range.
How much of a chance does a frigate have at 40km to 80km when targetted with a tachyon, 425mm railgun, or 1400mm howitzer? Zero, it's dead, one shot one kill, easily -- it survives for as long as it takes you to target it.
How about heavy drones and smartbombs? How well do frigates fare against that? Why do missiles have to be crippled in battleship combat when there's quite frankly many many many easy ways to kill a frigate?
A cruise missile under the current system, takes over 20 seconds to hit something at 40km away and over 42 seconds to hit something 80km away, so in most realistic fights, it takes 20-42 seconds before your weapons even land one single shot. Is that fast enough for you? It's not for me.
Oh the joys of playing Caldari..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:56:00 -
[26]
Quote:
No, that would be instant, I think 2400-3200m/s base speed for a cruise missile would be adequate if it had trouble homing in on frigates at short range.
Jim,
2400-3200 m/s is 4-5x greater than the speed of our fastest ships available to us on the market, the shuttle.
Remember when I said I didn't really want the missiles to go more than 4x our fastest ship?
Its starting to look like were agreeing on the same stuff here...
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 14:20:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote:
No, that would be instant, I think 2400-3200m/s base speed for a cruise missile would be adequate if it had trouble homing in on frigates at short range.
Jim,
2400-3200 m/s is 4-5x greater than the speed of our fastest ships available to us on the market, the shuttle.
Remember when I said I didn't really want the missiles to go more than 4x our fastest ship?
Its starting to look like were agreeing on the same stuff here...
So buy a MWD.
Missiles should be faster than ships, they're weapons, their job is to inflict damage, which right now, they suck at.
Would you like it if ships outran your lasers? Be realistic. Missiles don't have to be instahit, but cruise missiles should at least be fast enough to cover 45km+ in under 20 seconds.
How are missiles ever going to be serious weapons if they don't go fast enough to reach their targets before the damn fight is over.
People just warp away from them, it's a joke.
WTF are you going on about shuttles, who cares? Shuttles do in one hit from a turret, which btw doesn't take 35 seconds to hit reach it.
As for frigates, again who cares? They die to turrets, do drones, to smartbombs, why shouldn't missiles be included? If it's such a huge deal take cruise missiles away from frigates, I don't care.
No one seriously uses frigates in real PvP fights anyways, they're gatecamper support at best.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.17 15:01:00 -
[28]
Quote:
WTF are you going on about shuttles, who cares? Shuttles do in one hit from a turret, which btw doesn't take 35 seconds to hit reach it.
Jim take a deep breath,
take a chill pill and relax.
My whole point I was making is that a Cruise missile is a LARGE and HEAVY and NON AGILE Missile, which to me should not be doing ungodly speeds and turning on a freaken dime!
My comparison with the shuttle is only because it is the fastest base speed ship available in game (600m/s). Therefore it is of my opinion that cruise missiles should not go any faster than 4-5 times the speed of the fastest ship available in game.
As faster ships are released I think it would be fair to say that improved engine technology is the reasoning behind that speed increase and therefore it should carry over to the missile speeds as well.
So now, you can basically see that I am in agreement with you that they should be going faster, but only to the point that engine technology supports, and the speeds you suggested I happened to agree with.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:31:00 -
[29]
so ur saying Jim that Cruise missiles should always hit a frigate "couse turrets do it"!?
"We brake for nobody"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:30:00 -
[30]
Quote:
so ur saying Jim that Cruise missiles should always hit a frigate "couse turrets do it"!?
considering missiles cost 100 times more than turret ammo, yes
a volley of cruise missiles/torps probably costs more than a frigate.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
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