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Taurar
   |
Posted - 2004.02.12 17:54:00 -
[1]
you can get a copy of the log here at EVE Gate
http://www.evegate.net/exclusives/dev019.php
Malachlite incognito |
Sequin
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:00:00 -
[2]
Good chat, but it had almost no questions that had anything to do with mining/trading, and almost everything to do with shiva and fighting.. I guess we non-pvprs are a minority now:|
^A Raem Civre Original
EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original.
[i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything
Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork!
b]
We are evil exploiters! |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:18:00 -
[3]
hmm, almost sounds like they r not gonna update the game untill Shiva (may)?
"We brake for nobody"
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Jael
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:27:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
hmm, almost sounds like they r not gonna update the game untill Shiva (may)?
Except for the entire section which said:
Quote:
<hellmar> We are making sure that we will not have a dry spell of new things to play with as was between Gemini and castor
<hellmar> we have already lined up some content to trickle out and our improvements to project management process allow us to do fix patches and UI backports from Shiva
<hellmar> so exciting times are ahead :)
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:28:00 -
[5]
much better. no idea though, how a chat can be done without asking them for improvements/new ideas on the lag issue.
shiva (may) means not before autumn, most likely. everything "later" sounds like chrismas to me. sigh.
this is particularly sad on this one:
Quote:
<TomB> right now my only excuse is that the pirates in the droid fields are just freelancing pirates that don't know about your standing and dislike ore thieves, so they shoot before asking :x
<TomB> but later on, the NPC system will get better work on, this has been a feature request for a long time
Quote:
<Solaris_CCP> Warp disruptors are currently dropped as NPC loot and should appear soon on the market I expect.
if only i could still thrust them...
Quote:
<hellmar> all in all making it more challenging to control "land"
<hellmar> it was way too easy when you could camp like 1-3 gates to block of access of up to 3 regions
control? they ve got not the slightest clue. sad.
Quote:
<Jash_Illian> Question: has any consideration been given to creating a 'middle ground' for players? An area where aggression is limited through mechanics (limited navy protection and perhaps faction based sentry gun response) to exist between the absolute safety of empire space and the freeforall of non-empire space?
<hellmar> We have though much about this
<hellmar> specially reagarding NPC empire warfare
<hellmar> i.e. create a system with optin mechanics and reduced death penalty
<hellmar> We like the effort that players have created them selves with frigate combat leagues, etc.
<hellmar> We all know that consentual pvp is fun but loosing all your effort is of course not fun
<hellmar> other than empire conflict we have also though of a security interval that could function along the lines of ships can be destroyed but no podding
<hellmar> That would allow for better support were player could frigate sparr with out having to risk loosing implants or skill points
<hellmar> So we are all for creating such an area and are thinking up ways that are not expliotable
<hellmar> doing that is how ever tricky, you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S
<hellmar> so we thing long and hard before changing these aspect of the game, although we want to move in this direction
i ll call this an misunderstanding, if ever there has been one.
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:28:00 -
[6]
Quote:
<netWilk> question for devs: Will it be possible to limit purchasers of my goods on market based on my/my corps standing toward them? If for example, my standing toward them is -10.0, they cannot purchase my goods.
Uuuuh, heard of alts? This is just as dumb as trying to embargo PC pirates.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Onubis
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Posted - 2004.02.12 18:33:00 -
[7]
"That will be in Shiva"
well, thats just great isnt it! 
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
"It is better to die on our feet than live on our knees"
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Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2004.02.12 22:00:00 -
[8]
hmmm.... MAY!!! Well that just erks me to no end. If Unreal 2k4 comes out next month as planned I might take a vacation until may.
BTW : only 2 good things came out of this worthless dev chat again ( a half-boned answer about caldari ships and an eta on Shiva ). However, everyone seems to be used to a crap devchat so oh well.
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.02.13 01:24:00 -
[9]
Quote:
<TomB> We have been creating new skills for missile specialization (drones as well), and in next week or two we will take a new look at the Caldari ships.
w00t!
My lucky day. After endless complains about this it turns out that TomB has listened.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.02.13 03:55:00 -
[10]
missles...they need to be BOOSTED...? i love usin missles atm and there is no competition between a gunned ship and my raven for damage..i dont understand what u ppl are whinning about 
_______________________________________________
Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
lash
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Posted - 2004.02.13 05:16:00 -
[11]
Edited by: lash on 13/02/2004 05:17:45
Only 3 changes really need to be made to missiles right now.
Reduced cpu on the launchers
Cheaper cost
and faster build times.
That alone would make alot of people very happy.
*edit* new specialized drone and missile skills, yay!
--------------
"You ever hear of the Seattle Seven? That was me. And, um, six other guys." |
Ubix
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Posted - 2004.02.13 07:44:00 -
[12]
Quote:
missles...they need to be BOOSTED...? i love usin missles atm and there is no competition between a gunned ship and my raven for damage..i dont understand what u ppl are whinning about
I tend to a agree ... when you're sitting there firing turrets, the damage wavers according to the accurancy of the shot (minus the shield armor mods on the target). Missles are a constant (minus mods) with little cap use. I can't see what needs to be changed (other than that they need faster production speeds).
UBIX
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Zoriander
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Posted - 2004.02.13 09:11:00 -
[13]
Quote:
<hellmar> also are we looking into removing missile splash damage all together
<hellmar> as it doesn't seem to be used for anything but griefing
<hellmar> I would very much like to hear players opinion on that
I would hate to see missile splash damage removed.
This would seriously reduce combat tactics as the difference between guns/lasers and missiles is lost.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.13 09:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: McWatt on 13/02/2004 13:08:43
Quote:
I would hate to see missile splash damage removed.
This would seriously reduce combat tactics as the difference between guns/lasers and missiles is lost.
find it rather weird what ppl call tactic these days.
destroying your own missiles? wipeing out drones? auto pod/can kill? or the good old "bring in concord" thing?
i m still looking for someone who did damage to more than one ship on purpose!
fix splash or remove it!
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:05:00 -
[15]
Regarding the dueling between frigates:
Why not make a duel dome? A gigantic sphere in space that you can enter and where you can fight each other. The moment your ship blows your dragged out the dome.
This dome has a 500km range and looks like some stadion with advertisement etc.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:12:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 13/02/2004 13:14:46
Quote:
missles...they need to be BOOSTED...? i love usin missles atm and there is no competition between a gunned ship and my raven for damage..i dont understand what u ppl are whinning about
Missiles aren't fast enough for long range warfare, that's their achilles heel right now.
They need more speed, people don't fight at 20km that often anymore, it's usually 50-80km now, it takes too long to reach targets when your missile only goes 1920m/s, people warp away from them, it's silly. That's the main reason Caldari ships tend to not do as much damage as they should be able to.
I fly a Raven myself and I was very pleased with it until the battlefield shifted from 20-30km to much greater ranges, current missile speed simply doesn't cut it anymore.
Honestly what good is the long targetting range Caldari ships have, and the high optimals on railguns if missiles are total garbage at long range? If those three factors do not mix well together, Caldari ships are flawed, wouldn't you agree?
Cost/Production on missiles is also bit out of wack, but I think that's getting addressed.
Splash damage on missiles should get removed, there are no 'tactics' involved with missile splash, it either destroys your own missiles or gets you destroyed by CONCORD, so why have it? Leave it on torpedoes, that gives torpedoes a very defined role, huge blast radius AOE missiles.
Other than that missiles are okay, as far as the raw damage they deal.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.02.13 13:45:00 -
[17]
I use splash damage on torpedo's for drones, thats the only splash i use... Wonder what torpedo's going to get for special bonus, maybe dmg increase perhaps.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.13 14:09:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Regarding the dueling between frigates:
Why not make a duel dome? A gigantic sphere in space that you can enter and where you can fight each other. The moment your ship blows your dragged out the dome.
This dome has a 500km range and looks like some stadion with advertisement etc.
still doubt that this question was about duels.
if i had to rank necessary changes, a duel dome would score about place 783, putting its arrival date (soon) somewhere in the roaring twenties of our century.
fixing splash should solve this issue, "no risk, please" ppl always can simply use chaos.
what we need is a middle ground of normal fighting.
this would naturally be low sec empire space. the first obvious move is the removal of the sentry guns. they should be replaced by flexible police response.
basically,concord ships would try to balance the odds in any fights, levelling the playing field.
this would happen with regard of system/pilots security level, faction standings, thread level, location and time.
complex. looks like this will happen after the dome.
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GALAGA
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Posted - 2004.02.13 15:52:00 -
[19]
I like the splash damage at least on torpedos.
I waited till an ore theif got close enough to his 3 other buddies in cruisers and then sent 8-10 torps his way and was able to podkill him and severely damage their cruisers.
They work great when the enemy is in a tight formation.
But removing the splash from all other types is fine with me.
And I agree with Jim on their speed when we fight long range it seems we can destroy the other ship with our guns before the missiles ever arrive, only to see them destroy the cannisters.
-----------------------------------------------
"The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not." |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.13 17:14:00 -
[20]
i think that Torps should stay Slow, but Cruise how ever should be faster...
"We brake for nobody"
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Anna Heart
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Posted - 2004.02.13 19:18:00 -
[21]
I still am curious what will be done about torps... maybe CCP will forget entirily that their advantage was splash damage since not many use them as cruise missiles or just make them do next to no damage and not fit in luanchers and easily shot down before they even become a potential threat to a ship of any class... or was that another munition with a great deal of potential royaly f'd up?... 
Mines are something I wanna see adressed. Everyone wonders why it's so hard to secure alliance borders well HELLO can't gfet sentry guns, disruptors are hard to find, and mines well they just don't work. so you all have to sit there 24/7 only to have whoever is invading race through as the server comes up and people are gradaly trickling online.
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.16 14:39:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Missiles aren't fast enough for long range warfare, that's their achilles heel right now.
They need more speed, people don't fight at 20km that often anymore, it's usually 50-80km now, it takes too long to reach targets when your missile only goes 1920m/s, people warp away from them, it's silly. That's the main reason Caldari ships tend to not do as much damage as they should be able to.
I agree with you to a point Jim, however at 1920m/s that is already 3x faster than the fastest ship currently out there (Shuttles)
I personally dont want the missiles going any faster than 4x any of our fastest ships out there.
However, what I would like to see is the missile not loosing its lock on a ship if it enters into warp, I would rather that they have it keep on tracking until the ship actually enters into its warp speeds and then losses it lock and detonates.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.16 19:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 16/02/2004 19:40:22
Quote:
I agree with you to a point Jim, however at 1920m/s that is already 3x faster than the fastest ship currently out there (Shuttles)
 and turrets ammo goes how fast? How much of a chance doesa shuttle have against a tachyon or 1400mm howitzer? Why should they have a chance against a cruise missile?
Quote:
I personally dont want the missiles going any faster than 4x any of our fastest ships out there.
Why shouldn't missiles be faster than ships? There are such things as smartbombs and defenders.
Quote:
However, what I would like to see is the missile not loosing its lock on a ship if it enters into warp, I would rather that they have it keep on tracking until the ship actually enters into its warp speeds and then losses it lock and detonates.
Yes, that needs fixed badly.
Large missiles should have a more difficult time hitting small targets, but that's about the only issue I see with faster missiles.
Missiles are not fast enough, they just aren't.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.17 02:47:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Mordessa on 17/02/2004 02:52:55
Quote:
and turrets ammo goes how fast? How much of a chance doesa shuttle have against a tachyon or 1400mm howitzer? Why should they have a chance against a cruise missile?
If I get what your saying here, you basically want missiles to go as fast as a 1400 round or a tachyeon laser.
Look at the physics of the two items your talking about. One is launched out of a tube with tremendous force of an explosion and the other is a beam of light emitted from a single point.
Alas a missile is a weapon with an engine strapped/mounted to it.
If you were to have a missile go as fast as the two items you described, or any other item, it would be meaningless to have a tracking system even on a missile as you would have to line up your whole ship in line with the target.
I mean can you imagine the horrendous turning arc of a missile fired off 60 degrees to the right and 80 kilometers from its intended target if its speed was say 2-5 km/s I seriously doubt the missile would ever make the turn, hence why I am saying you would practically line up your ship towards your target to even have a hope of hitting it.
Quote:
Missiles are not fast enough, they just aren't.
Make them too fast and you will never hit anything.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 07:42:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 17/02/2004 10:35:43
Quote:
If I get what your saying here, you basically want missiles to go as fast as a 1400 round or a tachyeon laser.
No, that would be instant, I think 2400-3200m/s base speed for a cruise missile would be adequate if it had trouble homing in on frigates at short range.
How much of a chance does a frigate have at 40km to 80km when targetted with a tachyon, 425mm railgun, or 1400mm howitzer? Zero, it's dead, one shot one kill, easily -- it survives for as long as it takes you to target it.
How about heavy drones and smartbombs? How well do frigates fare against that? Why do missiles have to be crippled in battleship combat when there's quite frankly many many many easy ways to kill a frigate?
A cruise missile under the current system, takes over 20 seconds to hit something at 40km away and over 42 seconds to hit something 80km away, so in most realistic fights, it takes 20-42 seconds before your weapons even land one single shot. Is that fast enough for you? It's not for me.
Oh the joys of playing Caldari..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:56:00 -
[26]
Quote:
No, that would be instant, I think 2400-3200m/s base speed for a cruise missile would be adequate if it had trouble homing in on frigates at short range.
Jim,
2400-3200 m/s is 4-5x greater than the speed of our fastest ships available to us on the market, the shuttle.
Remember when I said I didn't really want the missiles to go more than 4x our fastest ship?
Its starting to look like were agreeing on the same stuff here...
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 14:20:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Quote:
No, that would be instant, I think 2400-3200m/s base speed for a cruise missile would be adequate if it had trouble homing in on frigates at short range.
Jim,
2400-3200 m/s is 4-5x greater than the speed of our fastest ships available to us on the market, the shuttle.
Remember when I said I didn't really want the missiles to go more than 4x our fastest ship?
Its starting to look like were agreeing on the same stuff here...
So buy a MWD.
Missiles should be faster than ships, they're weapons, their job is to inflict damage, which right now, they suck at.
Would you like it if ships outran your lasers? Be realistic. Missiles don't have to be instahit, but cruise missiles should at least be fast enough to cover 45km+ in under 20 seconds.
How are missiles ever going to be serious weapons if they don't go fast enough to reach their targets before the damn fight is over.
People just warp away from them, it's a joke.
WTF are you going on about shuttles, who cares? Shuttles do in one hit from a turret, which btw doesn't take 35 seconds to hit reach it.
As for frigates, again who cares? They die to turrets, do drones, to smartbombs, why shouldn't missiles be included? If it's such a huge deal take cruise missiles away from frigates, I don't care.
No one seriously uses frigates in real PvP fights anyways, they're gatecamper support at best.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Mordessa
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Posted - 2004.02.17 15:01:00 -
[28]
Quote:
WTF are you going on about shuttles, who cares? Shuttles do in one hit from a turret, which btw doesn't take 35 seconds to hit reach it.
Jim take a deep breath,
take a chill pill and relax.
My whole point I was making is that a Cruise missile is a LARGE and HEAVY and NON AGILE Missile, which to me should not be doing ungodly speeds and turning on a freaken dime!
My comparison with the shuttle is only because it is the fastest base speed ship available in game (600m/s). Therefore it is of my opinion that cruise missiles should not go any faster than 4-5 times the speed of the fastest ship available in game.
As faster ships are released I think it would be fair to say that improved engine technology is the reasoning behind that speed increase and therefore it should carry over to the missile speeds as well.
So now, you can basically see that I am in agreement with you that they should be going faster, but only to the point that engine technology supports, and the speeds you suggested I happened to agree with.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.17 16:31:00 -
[29]
so ur saying Jim that Cruise missiles should always hit a frigate "couse turrets do it"!?
"We brake for nobody"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:30:00 -
[30]
Quote:
so ur saying Jim that Cruise missiles should always hit a frigate "couse turrets do it"!?
considering missiles cost 100 times more than turret ammo, yes
a volley of cruise missiles/torps probably costs more than a frigate.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.17 21:45:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Admiral IceBlock on 17/02/2004 21:51:45
it shouldnt always hit!!! like when i turn and fly towards u and the cruise hits u instead for example!? :p
"We brake for nobody"
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Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.18 03:36:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Belzavior on 18/02/2004 03:40:10
First off Jim, please stop comparing them to Turrets. These are totally different weapon types. Would it make sense to expect a smartbomb to behave like a turret?
Big problem like you said is speed. If they give a big speed boost to missiles across the board (not torps) that would help alot. However they should make missiles at fast speeds take alot longer to turn at those speeds. This would help the nimble frigate whom manually dodges a cruise, buying it more time to work with while the missile is turning. Of course if he has a ton of missiles on him theres just not much he'll be able to do.
Of course heavy missiles and light missiles should be more agile and have much better time hitting nimble targets. Then there will actually be a reason to use those weapons.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 04:06:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 18/02/2004 04:07:26
Quote:
First off Jim, please stop comparing them to Turrets. These are totally different weapon types. Would it make sense to expect a smartbomb to behave like a turret?
For Caldari ships, they are generally your primary weapons. Every Caldari ship aside from the Moa, is primarily a missile boat.
Caldari are probably losing their turret bonus according to TomB (which was useless anyways).
Yes I do compare launchers to turrets because for Caldari ships to hold their own against other races ships missiles must be as good as turrets.
Read the Dev log, Caldari ships don't do have enough offense, this is because missiles are still inadaquate primary weapons and these are the weapons Caldari rely on heavily for their offense.
CALDARI = MISSILES
GALLANTE = HYBRID
MINMATAR = PROJECTILES
AMARR = LASERS
So why should missiles NOT be as good as the weapons of other races? Can you please explain to me why Caldari HAVE to have the worst weapons in the game with the most quirks and flaws and cost a hundred times more to build?
I ask you, how is that balanced? Please don't say it's because of midslots -- because low slot ships with cap relays are currently the 'kings' of shield boosting -- not Caldari.
If CCP wants to cook up more missile skills to make it more balanced in terms of training, I'm all for it. I have no problem with more missile skills.
Rockets should zip around like greased lightning and be incredibly agile. (6,000m/s)
Light missiles should be very fast and very agile. (5,200m/s)
Heavy missiles should be moderately fast and moderately agile. (3,200m/s)
Torpedoes should be fairly slow and very sluggish but have a huge blast radius in unison with their powerful payload. (1,800m/s)
Cruise Missiles should be a bit slower than heavy missiles and fairly sluggish but not as much as torpedoes (2,800m/s).
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Sally
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Posted - 2004.02.18 05:43:00 -
[34]
Cruise missiles are fast enough (to kill in close range quick), splash damage has to stay (fun factor).
Jim, if you have trouble with people warping away from your missiles, then get someone to warp jam the people, e.g. a fast and expandable MWD frigate. Caldari are IMHO a defensive / EW race, they shouldn't be able to do the same ammount of damage as the other races. You are basicly asking for same damage + tanking / ECM, which would be too superior.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 06:19:00 -
[35]
Quote:
Cruise missiles are fast enough (to kill in close range quick), splash damage has to stay (fun factor).
Question, why Caldari have the slowest speed, highest mass, and the best targeting range / hybrid range bonus if their ships are designed for short range?
Does that make sense to you?
Quote:
Jim, if you have trouble with people warping away from your missiles, then get someone to warp jam the people, e.g. a fast and expandable MWD frigate.
That works for gate camping but not for fleet combat (which is what m0o does mostly).. when your targets are 60-80km away, your missiles are useless.. again, I fail to see why Caldari are designed for LONG RANGE when their weapons are obviously more suited for SHORT RANGE.
Missiles need to be better at long range, obviously.
Quote:
Caldari are IMHO a defensive / EW race, they shouldn't be able to do the same ammount of damage as the other races. You are basicly asking for same damage + tanking / ECM, which would be too superior.
How do you figure Caldari are the defensive race? Ships with more low slots are much better suited for shield tanking than the Scorpion/Raven. Shield tanking isn't about your shield capacity, but your ability to replenish your shields.
Caldari ships have not enough low slots to get enough capacitator recharge to run XL Shield Boosters non stop. Apoc/Typhoon and other ships blessed with low slots certainly can do it.
CCP is making armor tanking much more viable soon as well, so again, how does Caldari have the defensive crown? They can fit more hardeners, but honestly, stacking hardeners isn't exactly wise, you gain what from stacking 2 EM? 18%? Considering most weapons do 2 dmg types, you're basically reducing what? 9% damage in most instances?
Honestly, Scorpion and lame broken sensor dampeners, which hopefully will get balanced with Shiva does not mean you should nerf all Caldari ships and leave them with crappy, expensive, poor damage weapons.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.18 07:02:00 -
[36]
lets nerf the shield boosters? :P
"We brake for nobody"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 07:18:00 -
[37]
Quote:
lets nerf the shield boosters? :P
it's not the shield boosters, it's the cap relays that allow you to run them forever.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:59:00 -
[38]
what kinda nerf? decrease their cap recharge or increase their fitting requirments?
"We brake for nobody"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 14:07:00 -
[39]
Quote:
what kinda nerf? decrease their cap recharge or increase their fitting requirments?
i heard the most likely nerfs to cap relays would be either a reduction in shield capacity or it would work as a REVERSE shield boost amplifier
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:31:00 -
[40]
Jim we are agreeing on the same thing. However you keep referencing to turrets, and that is what keeps hurting your case at least IMO.
Missiles need love? YES
Do I agree with your speed changes? Yes.
Do I agree that a missile should be everything a turret is? No.
Do I agree that a turret should be able to perform like a missile? No.
They are just different. Making missiles exactly like turrets would just make missiles another turret. And the game would just get a bit more dull.
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shivan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 23:42:00 -
[41]
I agree with you to a point Jim, however at 1920m/s that is already 3x faster than the fastest ship currently out there (Shuttles)
I can get a Vigil to 3500m/s and keep the cap to hold steady, does any1 else have a ship that can move faster than missiles and not run outta cap???
Faster missiles i think would be a good idea it would make the Raven a more popular choice in combat, however missiles advantage over guns is that when they hit, they hit, u dont have to worry bout this u bearly scracth, or u completely miss stuff.
---------------------------------------
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.18 23:46:00 -
[42]
of course, i can even get around 6000 m/s stable in a frigate... but thats not the point... all frigates must use mwd or they r dead, cruisers and battleships dont need mwd, but frigates do... so frigates with mwd should be able to avoid getting hit by does big fat gigantic cruise and torps heading towards them...
"We brake for nobody"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.18 23:51:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Jim we are agreeing on the same thing. However you keep referencing to turrets, and that is what keeps hurting your case at least IMO.
Missiles need love? YES
Do I agree with your speed changes? Yes.
Do I agree that a missile should be everything a turret is? No.
Do I agree that a turret should be able to perform like a missile? No.
They are just different. Making missiles exactly like turrets would just make missiles another turret. And the game would just get a bit more dull.
in terms of power and damage dealing however, they should be equal, missiles have a very slow ROF, they must travel to their targets, they can be taken out with countermeasures..
if missiles aren't as good as turrets, what's the point of playing caldari?
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
shivan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 23:58:00 -
[44]
Jim i dotn know if u know this, but IMHO i think that caldari ships are support ships. IE EW, and there missile bays simply allow them to deal damage without using cap, yes missile do take time to get to tehre targets, but in fleet combat, ur missile will get to the target when the ship as already been battered, so then ur missiles get the kill, while all the time u are protecting ur corp mates by target jamming other people. But hey thats just what i think.
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shivan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 00:01:00 -
[45]
The other thing as well is that there damage is stable, they always deliver there payload, while turrets can miss, ever thought about that???
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Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.19 00:15:00 -
[46]
I agree give them a speed boost. Except Torps.
Give C. Missiles a small dmg boost, and Torps a bigger boost. Torpedos should be somewhat slow but very very destructive.
So speed needs to be addressed (somewhat) And perhaps dmg. (big iffy here.)
But you seem by earlier posts to expect missiles to land right away. You also bring up countermeasures and warping away. You make it sound as if turrets have no draw backs themselves, and they do. They don't hit always, they are very dependant on the ranges they are used at, and they have a big variable as to how much dmg they do when they do hit. They also with the exception of Projectile are dmg type restricted.
The upsides being is a WELL placed hit does more dmg than missiles for LARGE turrets, and hits are instantaneous.
Where as missiles have to be actively avoided. They also are very flexible. They do any type of dmg and you can just pop out your battleship killing torps and replace with frigate eating heavys. Or toss in some FOF missiles if you're getting jammed (thats if they ever work 100%)
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.19 02:33:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Jim i dotn know if u know this, but IMHO i think that caldari ships are support ships. IE EW, and there missile bays simply allow them to deal damage without using cap, yes missile do take time to get to tehre targets, but in fleet combat, ur missile will get to the target when the ship as already been battered, so then ur missiles get the kill, while all the time u are protecting ur corp mates by target jamming other people. But hey thats just what i think.
dumbest thing i ever read on these forums, caldari ships are not support ships. they are not there simply to support the other races ships.
which ships are designed for support should be ship dependant, not RACE.
minmatar ships use 0 cap weapons with much effectiveness, why can't missiles be equally effective? they cost many times more to use than projectiles, yet are considerably worse.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
ZzeusS
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:29:00 -
[48]
How about the missiles never stop chasing a target - ever. 
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