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What happend to the 1400MM's ?

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Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.19 09:29:00 - [31] Not like the math is all that hard. Wrecking is 3 times the average hit. Average hit is damage multi * ammo damage. So with faction EMP, you can get wreckings of over 3000 when you have a very good multi (20+). There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
General Myx	Posted - 2007.09.19 09:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Pinky Denmark Yeah - you aren't using T2 ammo for missions... are you? Eck!! Why would anyone but caldari use T2 ammo ?
Gyro DuAquin1 Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.09.19 11:27:00 - [33] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Ecky X I get 1800+ wreckings on my Tempest... You guys must be flying Maelstroms, which have more guns but lack the Tempest's damage bonus. I got a 2300 once and only 1900 ones for a while. I see 2800+ ones in peoples' bio, so, I do think there's a problem somewhere. +2800? You sure that wasnt before the stacking nerf? They i fit all my lows with gyrostabs days. those are old when quake wasnt nerfed, these days max damage will probally something close to 2000 with 0 resitance and short range ammo. Iam not a 100% sure but when quake wasnt nerfed a max char could get 3000 wreckings out of 1400s with quake loaded.
Mordorg Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.19 15:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1 Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Ecky X I get 1800+ wreckings on my Tempest... You guys must be flying Maelstroms, which have more guns but lack the Tempest's damage bonus. I got a 2300 once and only 1900 ones for a while. I see 2800+ ones in peoples' bio, so, I do think there's a problem somewhere. +2800? You sure that wasnt before the stacking nerf? They i fit all my lows with gyrostabs days. those are old when quake wasnt nerfed, these days max damage will probally something close to 2000 with 0 resitance and short range ammo. Iam not a 100% sure but when quake wasnt nerfed a max char could get 3000 wreckings out of 1400s with quake loaded. I can confirm this. I have had wreaking hits in the 3000+ range with old Quake L, in a fleet setup tempest. Now Quake is almost useless, I don't even carry it in my standard BS setups anymore.
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.19 20:26:00 - [35] Originally by: madaluap Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Ecky X I get 1800+ wreckings on my Tempest... You guys must be flying Maelstroms, which have more guns but lack the Tempest's damage bonus. I got a 2300 once and only 1900 ones for a while. I see 2800+ ones in peoples' bio, so, I do think there's a problem somewhere. +2800? You sure that wasnt before the stacking nerf? They i fit all my lows with gyrostabs days. The most recent I've seen occured live like 3 months ago to a corp mate on a POS. I think it's after staking nerf, right?
nabort Save our Souls	Posted - 2007.09.19 20:40:00 - [36] Edited by: nabort on 19/09/2007 20:43:19 2800 is definitely achievable in a Tempest with 1400mm IIs w/Quake. I've had one or two, but never on ships unfortunatly, not many people run without damage controls nowadays, and I never seem to get perfects on the ones that dont My last one (in August - I dont do that much sniping) was on a giant secure can that I blew up when I was bored camping a 0.0 entry system. Base damage on quake: 56 56 x 7.245 (1400mm II) = 405 405 x 1.25 (BS lvl 5) = 506.25 506.25 x 1.15 (Surgical Strike lvl 4) = 582.1875 582.1875 x 1.25 (Large Proj. Turret 5) = 727.734 (3.dp) 727.734 x 1.08 (Large Arty. Spec 4) = 785.953 (3.dp) 785.953 x 1.1 (Gyro II) = 864.548 864.548 x 1.08 (2nd Gyro II) = 933.712 933.712 x 3 (Wrecking Hit) = 2801.136 This is by no means max damage too - with Arty Spec 5, Surgical Strike 5 and Large Projectile Damage implants it could be considerably more (3000+) That took longer than I expected to work out...next time I'm just going to right click on my Pest, right click on the arty and look at the damage mod...would've saved me about 5mins )
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.09.19 20:54:00 - [37] Sorry if this sounds harsh but I don't have time for ôI have a feeling that something isnÆt rightö So.... Anchor one Giant secure can, sit inside optimal range, fire a hundred rounds at it. Compare your; normal hits to [displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], excellent hits to [1.5x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], wrecking hits to [3x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage] If you don't show a significant discrepancy there, congrats on wasting the GM's time with a pointless petition. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 09:00:00 - [38] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Sorry if this sounds harsh but I don't have time for ôI have a feeling that something isnÆt rightö So.... Anchor one Giant secure can, sit inside optimal range, fire a hundred rounds at it. Compare your; normal hits to [displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], excellent hits to [1.5x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], wrecking hits to [3x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage] If you don't show a significant discrepancy there, congrats on wasting the GM's time with a pointless petition. Unfortunately it's all about statistics. You don't know if 1000 shots or 10000 shots is enough to make a failsafe model. Until, there's an official DEV response like "Yes, there is a problem" or "No, the formulae are the same" our assumptions or GMs responses don't mean crap.
Spike Larosse RSP Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.20 10:48:00 - [39] Well actually that is exactly what statistics do. Sure you cannot get a failsafe model, but you can calculate an average within a confidence interval, assuming the data is Gauss/normal distributed (dunno if hit dmg is though?). -RSP- Recruiting
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:06:00 - [40] Originally by: Spike Larosse Well actually that is exactly what statistics do. Sure you cannot get a failsafe model, but you can calculate an average within a confidence interval, assuming the data is Gauss/normal distributed (dunno if hit dmg is though?). Yes, so there's not much we know for sure
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:10:00 - [41] Much more likely that NPC were simply buffed. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:16:00 - [42] Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Gabriel Karade Sorry if this sounds harsh but I don't have time for ôI have a feeling that something isnÆt rightö So.... Anchor one Giant secure can, sit inside optimal range, fire a hundred rounds at it. Compare your; normal hits to [displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], excellent hits to [1.5x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], wrecking hits to [3x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage] If you don't show a significant discrepancy there, congrats on wasting the GM's time with a pointless petition. Unfortunately it's all about statistics. You don't know if 1000 shots or 10000 shots is enough to make a failsafe model. Until, there's an official DEV response like "Yes, there is a problem" or "No, the formulae are the same" our assumptions or GMs responses don't mean crap. 100 shots would be enough to have a general idea if there is something vastly awry with the turrets displayed damage vs. actual damage. It's not a case of trying to model the nuances of the tracking/hit formula - is the OP correct and something is massively wrong, OR (as so often happens) there is absolutely nothing wrong and itÆs simply æperceptionÆ... And to be frank given how few posts there are on this, I'm inclined to believe there is nothing wrong unless the OP can show otherwise. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:22:00 - [43] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 20/09/2007 11:22:43 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Much more likely that NPC were simply buffed. I can vouch for NPCs not being buffed in any way, shape or form. More likely the OP is just seeing things, or maybe his gyrostabs don't work properly. Maybe taking them off and putting them back on would help. I have seen stranger things in EVE than an online-looking mod not working... There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 20/09/2007 11:24:21 Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Gabriel Karade Sorry if this sounds harsh but I don't have time for ôI have a feeling that something isnÆt rightö So.... Anchor one Giant secure can, sit inside optimal range, fire a hundred rounds at it. Compare your; normal hits to [displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], excellent hits to [1.5x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], wrecking hits to [3x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage] If you don't show a significant discrepancy there, congrats on wasting the GM's time with a pointless petition. Unfortunately it's all about statistics. You don't know if 1000 shots or 10000 shots is enough to make a failsafe model. Until, there's an official DEV response like "Yes, there is a problem" or "No, the formulae are the same" our assumptions or GMs responses don't mean crap. 100 shots would be enough to have a general idea if there is something vastly awry with the turrets displayed damage vs. actual damage. It's not a case of trying to model the nuances of the tracking/hit formula - is the OP correct and something is massively wrong, OR (as so often happens) there is absolutely nothing wrong and itÆs simply æperceptionÆ... And to be frank given how few posts there are on this, I'm inclined to believe there is nothing wrong unless the OP can show otherwise. Edit: Firing 100 shots at a Giant secure container ties in well with the OP's 'real' complaint i.e. popping NPC's. Taking a Tempest with max skills, 1400mm's and 2 Gyro-stabilizers, you're looking at approx 6 rounds every ten seconds, 36 rounds per minute, making the test comparable to popping 3 NPC Battleships (kill time is typically less than a minute per target). The problem is that even with facts gather by our selves, there isn't solid evidence to prove something is wrong and more so, I doubt very much that a GM can fairly agree or disagree in case of a petition. They just read the latest patch notes, ask a bit around, fit a ship, fire a bit, see nothing and then you get the usual answer "Our logs..." If we could see the code, than all would be clear. I doubt anyone but a CCP developer can see this.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.09.20 11:45:00 - [45] didn't npc's get buffed the same time that players get a boost to hit points?
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.20 12:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Gawain Hill didn't npc's get buffed the same time that players get a boost to hit points? They're saying if this is the case then people would notice that it takes x+ more missiles than usual to kill z rat (for missile users). It actually could be that case though and the missile users aren't saying anything because well...they saw the same patch notes =P I'm pretty sure that NPC buff was a long time ago though. OP could be saying that over the last month he's noticed a difference or over the last year he's noticed a difference. Big discrepancy obviously between those two time frames =P --- Put in space whales!
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.09.20 21:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 20/09/2007 11:24:21 Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: Gabriel Karade Sorry if this sounds harsh but I don't have time for ôI have a feeling that something isnÆt rightö So.... Anchor one Giant secure can, sit inside optimal range, fire a hundred rounds at it. Compare your; normal hits to [displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], excellent hits to [1.5x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage], wrecking hits to [3x displayed dmg mod x base ammo damage] If you don't show a significant discrepancy there, congrats on wasting the GM's time with a pointless petition. Unfortunately it's all about statistics. You don't know if 1000 shots or 10000 shots is enough to make a failsafe model. Until, there's an official DEV response like "Yes, there is a problem" or "No, the formulae are the same" our assumptions or GMs responses don't mean crap. 100 shots would be enough to have a general idea if there is something vastly awry with the turrets displayed damage vs. actual damage. It's not a case of trying to model the nuances of the tracking/hit formula - is the OP correct and something is massively wrong, OR (as so often happens) there is absolutely nothing wrong and itÆs simply æperceptionÆ... And to be frank given how few posts there are on this, I'm inclined to believe there is nothing wrong unless the OP can show otherwise. Edit: Firing 100 shots at a Giant secure container ties in well with the OP's 'real' complaint i.e. popping NPC's. Taking a Tempest with max skills, 1400mm's and 2 Gyro-stabilizers, you're looking at approx 6 rounds every ten seconds, 36 rounds per minute, making the test comparable to popping 3 NPC Battleships (kill time is typically less than a minute per target). The problem is that even with facts gather by our selves, there isn't solid evidence to prove something is wrong and more so, I doubt very much that a GM can fairly agree or disagree in case of a petition. They just read the latest patch notes, ask a bit around, fit a ship, fire a bit, see nothing and then you get the usual answer "Our logs..." If we could see the code, than all would be clear. I doubt anyone but a CCP developer can see this. Er, why do we need to see code? I'm simply asking that the OP show us why he thinks there is something wrong other than "hey guys I got a feeling...", a simple test as I suggested would either shut him up () or in the extremely unlikely case, warrant further attention. I'm quite sure nothing is wrong, for one the forums would be ablaze by now ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'

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