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Cloaking alts that just sit all day in a system!!

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PreterNatural	Posted - 2007.09.15 22:20:00 - [1] Yup, I'd like this question answered by a CCP rep. Will you do anything to help those who hunt down people who basically sit in a system cloaked all day? This tactic is lame, it has been commented umpteen times in the past yet there has been no definitive answer (apart from hints in patch notes that never materialized). WTF? Come on CCP are you or are you not going to tackle this lame ass tactic?
DJ Dax	Posted - 2007.09.15 23:52:00 - [2] Why not sit in their system with a cloaked ship?
Doublewhopper	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:58:00 - [3] Well you seem to be needing an update on game mechanics. Have you ever heard of Scanprobes or System Scanners? A System Scanner will remove any cloaked guests.
PreterNatural	Posted - 2007.09.16 02:49:00 - [4] Originally by: Doublewhopper Well you seem to be needing an update on game mechanics. Have you ever heard of Scanprobes or System Scanners? A System Scanner will remove any cloaked guests. I do huh? If using scanprobes or system scanners worked do you think i'd be posting on this forum? I'll safely assume you haven't actually tested that As for sitting in there system, unfortunately they have no home system to sit in. Back to sqaure one waiting for ccp to actually answer...
Trracer Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.16 03:40:00 - [5] Originally by: Doublewhopper A System Scanner will remove any cloaked guests. Say what? No it doesn't. You can't scan cloaked ships with system scanner. Either you are for or against us, there simply is no other way
Jabbur	Posted - 2007.09.16 11:11:00 - [6] Out of interest....if they sit cloaked all day and do nothing, what is the problem
BoroDracula	Posted - 2007.09.16 11:29:00 - [7] Its a problem normally coz there spying on you and relaying intel to hostiles
Saidor The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.16 12:40:00 - [8] Actually, the Dev on EVE-TV during the tourny coverage said you can probe cloaked players. However, the cloaks have a hidden stat which reduces the sig-rad of the ship which is used in the chance to probe calculation. So much so that the chances are a LOT lower than probing out a non-cloaked player. If you just do noobie wide area/random probes then expect a LOT of nothing. Even with a short range, high power probe in the right place you still need a lot of tries. That said, as an earlier poster said - use the system scanner as its rather good at the job. And before anyone replies with yabba-yabba-yabba-whine-whine-whine its all poo then do yourself a test. Fit a capital with T1 extenders, inertial stabs and a proto cloak then sit cloaked next to your buddy using a System Scanner (not a probe launcher for the noobs) and the answer will be clear - remember to give it a few tries for bad luck.
PreterNatural	Posted - 2007.09.16 22:05:00 - [9] Originally by: Saidor Actually, the Dev on EVE-TV during the tourny coverage said you can probe cloaked players. However, the cloaks have a hidden stat which reduces the sig-rad of the ship which is used in the chance to probe calculation. So much so that the chances are a LOT lower than probing out a non-cloaked player. If you just do noobie wide area/random probes then expect a LOT of nothing. Even with a short range, high power probe in the right place you still need a lot of tries. That said, as an earlier poster said - use the system scanner as its rather good at the job. And before anyone replies with yabba-yabba-yabba-whine-whine-whine its all poo then do yourself a test. Fit a capital with T1 extenders, inertial stabs and a proto cloak then sit cloaked next to your buddy using a System Scanner (not a probe launcher for the noobs) and the answer will be clear - remember to give it a few tries for bad luck. Thats refreshing news, ty :) My next question would be do skills like signal aquisition improve chances of findiing someone that is cloaked when using the system ship scanner battery at a POS?
Xen Ra	Posted - 2007.09.17 08:43:00 - [10] Originally by: PreterNatural Yup, I'd like this question answered by a CCP rep. Will you do anything to help those who hunt down people who basically sit in a system cloaked all day? This tactic is lame, it has been commented umpteen times in the past yet there has been no definitive answer (apart from hints in patch notes that never materialized). WTF? Come on CCP are you or are you not going to tackle this lame ass tactic? CCP already adressed this issue! In my case, if I remain idle for more then 2 minutes (cloaked or not), I disconnect. Cheers!
N0R0X	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:51:00 - [11] People just don't understand sometimes. Some things in EvE are meant to be almost infallible. Example. Interdictor Bubble -->> you cannot overcome it unless you fly out of it. If you want the cloaking nerf'ed then I want the interdictor nerf'ed and all the other "hard to overcome" items to be nerf'ed. The game is about tactics. If that person is cloaked in you system all day then do something crap for that day like mine. The covert ops ships is there for a reason..... spying. I would say stop whinning but that would just be mean
DreamWeaver99	Posted - 2007.09.17 15:39:00 - [12] I hate this problem too !!! We have a cloaker in one of our systems as well He is a alt and is in a ccp corp So we cant as you say go to his space and cloak And if he just sat there all day for intel that would be bad but this guy kills our miners and raters It just sucks that one guy can screw up a whole system that we have loads of pos in there should be a way to find this guy We have baited him and killed him but he does not fall for that anymore He is there all the time, day and night day after day after day This is just stupid that there is no way to find a guy in our so called "own system" I would like a answer to this as well
Tig Halberd	Posted - 2007.09.18 17:29:00 - [13] This type of tactic is used between real-world nations every day (albeit without the benefit of "cloaking"), so why shouldn't it be viable in Eve? My "nation" (corp) is warring against your "nation" (corp). I have a "spy", presumably controlled via a neutral nation (corp) spy on my enemy and disrupt their operations in their territory when they can. My enemy has to adjust their tactics to 1) find the spy, 2) figure out who is really controlling them, and 3) spend tons of time doing 1 and 2 thereby changing their focus and hopefully giving my nation (corp) the advantage. It may be very hard to find the spy, but as another poster noted, the standard scanners have an issue with finding them, but more advanced scanners closer to the enemy may have more luck... Sounds like run of the mill espionage to me.... -Tig
Syndicus	Posted - 2007.09.18 23:30:00 - [14] The obvious answer is to fix local, so players do not show up unless they talk.
PreterNatural	Posted - 2007.09.19 00:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Tig Halberd This type of tactic is used between real-world nations every day (albeit without the benefit of "cloaking"), so why shouldn't it be viable in Eve? My "nation" (corp) is warring against your "nation" (corp). I have a "spy", presumably controlled via a neutral nation (corp) spy on my enemy and disrupt their operations in their territory when they can. My enemy has to adjust their tactics to 1) find the spy, 2) figure out who is really controlling them, and 3) spend tons of time doing 1 and 2 thereby changing their focus and hopefully giving my nation (corp) the advantage. It may be very hard to find the spy, but as another poster noted, the standard scanners have an issue with finding them, but more advanced scanners closer to the enemy may have more luck... Sounds like run of the mill espionage to me.... -Tig At least there is the chance with that explanation that analogy you may find the spy, once you isolate that individual or corp you can do something about it! I know who the spy is, I know what system he's in, I also know he's got an 'I win' button. As things stand right now whilst the idea of 'advanced scanners closer to the enemy may have more luck' is a nice one, the reality is these 'spys' log in at a SS quite a few AU out, bring the cloaking device online then sit there all day till DT. I'd understand if there was a chance through my experience of scanning, but with maxed out probing skills, and a ship fully kitted out for scanning I have never after countless hours found them. I'd be happier if i knew that there's a percentage chance set in stone to find them - where's the guide to probing cloaked ships? Right now they might as well be sitting inside a station all day.
Laramon Questor Minmatar Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.09.19 09:26:00 - [16] Originally by: PreterNatural Originally by: Tig Halberd This type of tactic is used between real-world nations every day (albeit without the benefit of "cloaking"), so why shouldn't it be viable in Eve? My "nation" (corp) is warring against your "nation" (corp). I have a "spy", presumably controlled via a neutral nation (corp) spy on my enemy and disrupt their operations in their territory when they can. My enemy has to adjust their tactics to 1) find the spy, 2) figure out who is really controlling them, and 3) spend tons of time doing 1 and 2 thereby changing their focus and hopefully giving my nation (corp) the advantage. It may be very hard to find the spy, but as another poster noted, the standard scanners have an issue with finding them, but more advanced scanners closer to the enemy may have more luck... Sounds like run of the mill espionage to me.... -Tig At least there is the chance with that explanation that analogy you may find the spy, once you isolate that individual or corp you can do something about it! I know who the spy is, I know what system he's in, I also know he's got an 'I win' button. As things stand right now whilst the idea of 'advanced scanners closer to the enemy may have more luck' is a nice one, the reality is these 'spys' log in at a SS quite a few AU out, bring the cloaking device online then sit there all day till DT. I'd understand if there was a chance through my experience of scanning, but with maxed out probing skills, and a ship fully kitted out for scanning I have never after countless hours found them. I'd be happier if i knew that there's a percentage chance set in stone to find them - where's the guide to probing cloaked ships? Right now they might as well be sitting inside a station all day. Nerf station sitting! Even after failure, there can be redemption.
N0R0X	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:03:00 - [17] Why not escort your miners. If he is in a covert ops or recon ship then the chances are he doesn't have enough fire power to take out the guard. And when he is locked/webbed/scrammed then he won't be going anywhere. Then anyone available can jump in and toast him. You only need to fear the cloaker if he plans on attacking but then as above he needs to uncloak to do so. Escort traps, Gang kills If he feels he can't win then he won't attack. Ignore him then.
Presidente Gallente Pirate Hunters Inc Exa Nation	Posted - 2007.09.19 12:52:00 - [18] Originally by: PreterNatural Yup, I'd like this question answered by a CCP rep. Will you do anything to help those who hunt down people who basically sit in a system cloaked all day? This tactic is lame, it has been commented umpteen times in the past yet there has been no definitive answer (apart from hints in patch notes that never materialized). WTF? Come on CCP are you or are you not going to tackle this lame ass tactic? Why not just ignore them? It's waste of time and energy to complain about this. A cloak should work like this. We have gate camps which could be called +lame ass tactics½, too. And we have to live with it. So live with cloak and hunt some without cloak fitted. Pres G +++ JOIN PAP +++
Sirius Problem Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.19 22:13:00 - [19] Originally by: Syndicus The obvious answer is to fix local, so players do not show up unless they talk. Ignoring the Pirates vs Carebears aspect of this debate for a moment, implementing this feature would make it very laborious for two corps at war to actually find each other and fight, especially in empire, where people could be anywhere. Not all wars are one side "griefing" another. Sometimes both sides enjoy a good fight and local gives equal intel to both sides. Without other tools, a straight nerf of local would be a bad idea, IMO. ---- Some people say I have a bad attitude. Those people are stupid.
Ilvan	Posted - 2007.09.20 00:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Sirius Problem Ignoring the Pirates vs Carebears aspect of this debate for a moment, implementing this feature would make it very laborious for two corps at war to actually find each other and fight, especially in empire, where people could be anywhere. Not all wars are one side "griefing" another. Sometimes both sides enjoy a good fight and local gives equal intel to both sides. Without other tools, a straight nerf of local would be a bad idea, IMO. If both sides are so equally eager to fight, just convo the opposing CEO and say 'come to Rens' or whatever.
ViolenTUK Gallente Vindicated Exiles	Posted - 2007.09.20 06:14:00 - [21] Originally by: BoroDracula Its a problem normally coz there spying on you and relaying intel to hostiles Good im glad its a problem to you. It is supposed to be as spying on people like you is a neat thing you can do in a cloaking device. In fact local is usefull to you as it is a reminder that they are still in the same system. I think that cloaking devices should be left alone. One thought i have is that once a cloaking device is activated you shouldnt appear in local at all. Yes this would mean that you would have no idea that they are there thats the whole point of a cloaking device. www.eve-players.com
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.20 07:45:00 - [22] Originally by: ViolenTUK Originally by: BoroDracula Its a problem normally coz there spying on you and relaying intel to hostiles Good im glad its a problem to you. It is supposed to be as spying on people like you is a neat thing you can do in a cloaking device. In fact local is usefull to you as it is a reminder that they are still in the same system. I think that cloaking devices should be left alone. One thought i have is that once a cloaking device is activated you shouldnt appear in local at all. Yes this would mean that you would have no idea that they are there thats the whole point of a cloaking device. In another of the threads about cloakers there was a fairly good idea: 1) after activating the cloak the ship disappear from loca as long as it don't active any module, warp or don't speak in local. 2) if the ship active any module, warp or speak it become again visiblw on local (and if it decloack, obviously). That has 2 effects: it reflect fairly well the working of spy subs or satellites, as that are almost invisible as long as they are using only passive detection systems and give some second warning to the tagets if ostile actions, as a ship warping will appear in local. So an attentive potential target if forewarned of the danger and a inactive enemy has no effect on your activity.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.20 19:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Venkul Mul In another of the threads about cloakers there was a fairly good idea: 1) after activating the cloak the ship disappear from loca as long as it don't active any module, warp or don't speak in local. 2) if the ship active any module, warp or speak it become again visiblw on local (and if it decloack, obviously). That has 2 effects: it reflect fairly well the working of spy subs or satellites, as that are almost invisible as long as they are using only passive detection systems and give some second warning to the tagets if ostile actions, as a ship warping will appear in local. So an attentive potential target if forewarned of the danger and a inactive enemy has no effect on your activity. 1. This would have to be tweeked.. while no mods actually work while cloaked.. I wouldn't want to show up in local just cause I turned on my passive booster or pre-fired my missiles while still cloaked. I would love if we could.. while cloaked.. activate a passive targeter and be able to scan ppls ships and cargos while still cloaked. MIND YOU I DID NOT SAY SHOOTING.. No damage whatsoever is involved.. just passive targeting and scanning. If you decloak you loose target and must target again to prevent the legions of whiners that would cry if you held your lock. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.20 21:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Venkul Mul In another of the threads about cloakers there was a fairly good idea: 1) after activating the cloak the ship disappear from loca as long as it don't active any module, warp or don't speak in local. 2) if the ship active any module, warp or speak it become again visiblw on local (and if it decloack, obviously). That has 2 effects: it reflect fairly well the working of spy subs or satellites, as that are almost invisible as long as they are using only passive detection systems and give some second warning to the tagets if ostile actions, as a ship warping will appear in local. So an attentive potential target if forewarned of the danger and a inactive enemy has no effect on your activity. 1. This would have to be tweeked.. while no mods actually work while cloaked.. I wouldn't want to show up in local just cause I turned on my passive booster or pre-fired my missiles while still cloaked. I would love if we could.. while cloaked.. activate a passive targeter and be able to scan ppls ships and cargos while still cloaked. MIND YOU I DID NOT SAY SHOOTING.. No damage whatsoever is involved.. just passive targeting and scanning. If you decloak you loose target and must target again to prevent the legions of whiners that would cry if you held your lock. No, the idea is exactly the opposite. Like a hidden sub or a satellite playing possum, you are using the barely minimum of energy to diappear completly. As soon as you increase energy consumption you become visible in local, even if you don de-cloak. The idea is that you are totally invisible at long as you do nothing, but the potential targets get a warning as soon as the hidden cloaker act.

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