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Nummb	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:13:00 - [1] Ok, I know I am throwing lots of stuff out today, but hey I got off work early and have nothing better to do. Question, would you or do you venture out into low sec to buy stuff and haul back to high sec to sell for profit? And if so, how much of a profit are you looking to get to make it worth while? I.E. I have found a region that is absolutely out of whack, not naming which one of course that has the potential for an easy 25 to 40% profit just traveling four jumps total but one of those jumps is into low sec. I have an Armarr Impel, still trying to build up capital to buy a freighter (another topic) and I was wondering what's the true risk vs reward for this type of trading activity? Do I risk my expensive transport ship or do I stick with a smaller cheaper ship and just make more trips? Thoughts? Advice? Want to help me out and make millions, and no this is not an IPO lol.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:16:00 - [2] Risk assement is really up to you. Figure how much profit you stand to make and how much you stand to lose if it fails. You estimate the probablity of failure and see if you still like the margin. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Nummb	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:21:00 - [3] I figured as much, maybe I am just excited because this is the first time that I have stumbled unto the potential jack pot of isk in trading and yet I wonder if I have the guts and or wits to pull it off. Remember I am a small fry, 100mil isk is still alot of me, so I understand where the big guys would not be bothered by such trivial opportunities.
34534bobalt3244	Posted - 2007.09.17 18:24:00 - [4] Fly through once or twice with a shuttle and if you see nothing then you know it is clear.
Block Ukx KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.09.17 19:48:00 - [5] Use a scout and avoid busy times.
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Tech	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:03:00 - [6] If they are bulky, then possibly not. Anything that aligns fairly fast is fine, though. I tend to use and exequror for flying round low sec picking stuff up. Not that I trained for transports/blockade runners. They might be a better choice, if you have the option.
Wyehr Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.17 20:45:00 - [7] With some practice, you should be able to fly a Prorator through any gate camps smaller than about 50 guys without breaking a sweat. R i s e killboard admin.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:08:00 - [8] If you can't afford to lose your ship and all the cargo then don't try it. Simple as that. To me, low sec is not someplace to go for new traders/players unless you're in a very low-cost ship and don't have much to lose. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2007.09.17 21:23:00 - [9] if you're making 40% profit in an impel and can make 2 trips without being blown up then you'll have made more than enough to replace your ship personally i'd do it if you know what times of day the system is quiet then you can just trade there when it's quiet and trade other things when it gets busy although that only reduces the chances of you being blown up you still run the risk of someone spotting you and deciding to pop you while you're in low sec
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.19 05:06:00 - [10] Do NOT use a blockade runner in lowsec. Seriously. It's 20 million ISK for the ship, plus fittings. Flying a hauler in lowsec is dangerous enough, but a blockade runner on scanner is a 'gank me' flag. Sooner or later someone is going to login trap you just to see what's so valuable that you're repeatedly risking a 20M hauler to truck it. As an excercise figure out your best tank then compare that to the alpha strike of e.g. 3-4 gank battleships. If you need to haul stuff in lowsec do it in a tanked, stabbed up BC with a cloak -- myrm is a good choice. And remember: cargo expanders in lowsec are a death sentence.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.09.19 05:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Toria Nynys Do NOT use a blockade runner in lowsec. Seriously. It's 20 million ISK for the ship, plus fittings. Flying a hauler in lowsec is dangerous enough, but a blockade runner on scanner is a 'gank me' flag. Sooner or later someone is going to login trap you just to see what's so valuable that you're repeatedly risking a 20M hauler to truck it. As an excercise figure out your best tank then compare that to the alpha strike of e.g. 3-4 gank battleships. If you need to haul stuff in lowsec do it in a tanked, stabbed up BC with a cloak -- myrm is a good choice. And remember: cargo expanders in lowsec are a death sentence. I can't agree with that. Blockade runners are a perfectly logical choice for lowsec. Why would anyone login trap a blockade runner, and in what situation would you be vulnerable to it? I'm not seeing it. Lowsec stations are not stocked by haulers in BC's. Most of those who are running a profit hauling in lowsec will be flying industrials or transport ships. I've had my freighter in lowsec more times than I can count, as the profit potential outweighed the risk. And finally, if you can't afford to risk a 20m ship hauling in lowsec, your cargo is probably not worth entering lowsec anyway. Stay in empire until you can afford to risk the 20m. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.19 08:28:00 - [12] I agree with Kitex. A blockade runner is definetly suitable for low-sec trades. It can be partially tanked to avoid gank strikes (at least 3bs ones) as well as fitting low slot mods that allow faster warp (the agility ones). On the off chance that a BS gets a lock on you, your 2 inbuilt warp core stabs will ensure that you get away. Obviously if you do this whilst on autopilot and need to slowboat it to each gate you are asking to be ganked, but gate to gate jumps should put you in an extremely safe situation. Sure, the occasional gank may be sufficient to kill you, or bump you off course before you enter warp, but the odds of survival are improved about 10 fold having a blockade runner over a standard industrial. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Blazing Fire Interstellar Operations Incorporated	Posted - 2007.09.19 09:56:00 - [13] I have jumped in lowsec with a freighter many times. Even just to haul corp stuff. And I only use scouting first. No escort most of the time. In general I just fly Iteron V or Badger II with a Cloak, AB+nano+Istabs, and soem kind of tank. The Cargo rigs give good space boost. You can even go with Cargohold Expanders if you scout first. Blazing Fire CEO Interstellar Operations Incorporated Corp web site Recruitment Looking for experienced players Looking for new EVE players Services [Service] Killboard hosting [Service] Forum hosting [Service] Web site hosting [Service] Obelisk for rent [Service] Alliance Creation
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.09.19 10:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Toria Nynys Do NOT use a blockade runner in lowsec. Seriously. It's 20 million ISK for the ship, plus fittings. Flying a hauler in lowsec is dangerous enough, but a blockade runner on scanner is a 'gank me' flag. Sooner or later someone is going to login trap you just to see what's so valuable that you're repeatedly risking a 20M hauler to truck it. As an excercise figure out your best tank then compare that to the alpha strike of e.g. 3-4 gank battleships. If you need to haul stuff in lowsec do it in a tanked, stabbed up BC with a cloak -- myrm is a good choice. And remember: cargo expanders in lowsec are a death sentence. 3-4 BS would not be able to alpha a correctly setup blockade runner, nor would a login trap be much use. With the increase to agility from the last patch you can warp away very quickly, my crane does it in 2.8 sec and it's the least agile of them all. That means that by the time they have aligned and warped back to the gate you are already 3-4 systems away. And you do know that you can fit a cloak to blockade runners as well don't you? With a blockade runner in lowsec you don't even need scouts, you will just run past gate camps like they weren't even there. Your cloaking myrmidon on the other hand will get caught in the first skilled camp it jumps into. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:14:00 - [15] I know a corpmate that was experimeting with a frigate to lock a pod under 2 seconds. Of course, a frigate would get ripped fast on a gatecamp, but if we are talking about a low sec gate where there are usually only haulers, it has good survivaility, and can be replaced for next to nothing.
Ulrich Sternaxe	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Kitex Lowsec stations are not stocked by haulers in BC's. Most of those who are running a profit hauling in lowsec will be flying industrials or transport ships. I've had my freighter in lowsec more times than I can count, as the profit potential outweighed the risk. Would that be carrying NPC trade goods or player goods with that freighter? private investment plan
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.09.19 16:31:00 - [17] Originally by: Ulrich Sternaxe Originally by: Kitex Lowsec stations are not stocked by haulers in BC's. Most of those who are running a profit hauling in lowsec will be flying industrials or transport ships. I've had my freighter in lowsec more times than I can count, as the profit potential outweighed the risk. Would that be carrying NPC trade goods or player goods with that freighter? Player goods. Never been one to haul for NPCs. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.09.19 19:06:00 - [18] Low-sec is relatively safe as long as you're not flying a full-CE'd out Iteron V through a 10+ jump route while ignoring that very large blob on the map that says ">5 Ships Destroyed in the Last Hour." Be quick, use the map, know how aggression works vis-a-vis gates, assume anyone idling off a gate is hostile, and you'll be fine.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Investigador I know a corpmate that was experimeting with a frigate to lock a pod under 2 seconds. Of course, a frigate would get ripped fast on a gatecamp, but if we are talking about a low sec gate where there are usually only haulers, it has good survivaility, and can be replaced for next to nothing. And how many points did that frigate have? Not the 3-4 long range needed to catch a blockade runner thats for sure. There is a way to catch blockade runners in lowsec and that's with a remote sensor boosted and remote repaired lachesis and even then there is still a chance to get away if you have a cloak. I would dare say a blockade runner is the safes ship to travel in lowsec with. Safer than a inty/covert ops because it won't be killed by a smart bombing carrier. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations

Pirlouit Forum Moderator	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:43:00 - [20] Blockade runners have four main advantage: - can fit mwd drive - can tank - +2 warp core - fast to align As regard to venturing in low sec: you need to make sure you amke more money than taking the risk and getting kileld once in a while but you will make lot more isks. forum rules \| email

Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.09.19 22:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Pirlouit - can fit mwd drive Except if you are flying a Crane that is :) ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Sicil Fioet Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:38:00 - [22] I remember tiller posted a low sec gate camp setup where a Caldari assault frig gets used for locking targets down. The af itself would be receiving remote shield transfer and remote sensor boosting. I would imagine it can lock a blockade runner down pretty quick, but it most likely would not have the needed warp disruption strength to stop it. So yes, you can get into a camp that is setup in a way to get practically anything even a blockade runner. But those kinds of camps are very rare as they take effort to setup. Most people just use a few heavy ships to sit on the gate and catch anyone without warp core stabs. At times they have more than 3 points required to stop a completely stabbed up hauler (more than 4 in case of amarr haulers), but often they don't even think of doing that.
Wyehr Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.20 00:14:00 - [23] Ok, with practice, you can be in warp in a blockade runner very quickly. Probably quicker than anyone with points can react to you, much less lock on. Since there are no interdictors or anchorable bubbles in lowsec, a skilled player in a blockade runner can be totally immune to virtually every gatecamp there. You could name your ship "Free T2 BPOs, please pop me" and still taunt them midwarp. R i s e killboard admin.
Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2007.09.20 02:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Wyehr Ok, with practice, you can be in warp in a blockade runner very quickly. Probably quicker than anyone with points can react to you, much less lock on. Since there are no interdictors or anchorable bubbles in lowsec, a skilled player in a blockade runner can be totally immune to virtually every gatecamp there. You could name your ship "Free T2 BPOs, please pop me" and still taunt them midwarp. That's evil. Almost worth making a stack of BPCs and letting your ship get popped in hopes it would go up -- killmails don't differentiate, non?
Nummb	Posted - 2007.09.20 02:57:00 - [25] Well thanks so much for all the replies. I was lured into low sec by some very ridiculous sell orders that were on the market that I just couldn't resist. At first I thought it was a trap to lure a trader down into low sec so that they could gank, but I scouted ahead with just a shuttle and then ran my Impel through with no activity. The only down side was that there was more goods than I could carry out due to me swapping some cargo expanders for survivability mods. I made six runs in a little more than two hours, dropping off cargo and heading back with my shuttle. I think I was a little to paranoid but hey I didn't lose my ship so I guess all is good. Just to throw those people a bone, I bought 16 mil trit at 2.15 p/u and sold the same day at 3.03 p/u Bought 16,000,000 X 2.15 = 34,400,000 Sold 16,000,000 X 3.03 = 48,480,000 Profit = 14,080,000 and ROI of 29% I also picked up a few mods, not giving those away but I purchased @ 570 isk and melted down for the minerals and sold those for around 2,400 per unit purchased netting a whopping ROI of 76%. Thanks again to those that offered advice and encouragement. I have taken a new likening to trading and I count my isk one at a time and have fun doing it.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.09.20 04:56:00 - [26] Originally by: Nummb Well thanks so much for all the replies. I was lured into low sec by some very ridiculous sell orders that were on the market that I just couldn't resist. At first I thought it was a trap to lure a trader down into low sec so that they could gank, but I scouted ahead with just a shuttle and then ran my Impel through with no activity. The only down side was that there was more goods than I could carry out due to me swapping some cargo expanders for survivability mods. I made six runs in a little more than two hours, dropping off cargo and heading back with my shuttle. I think I was a little to paranoid but hey I didn't lose my ship so I guess all is good. Just to throw those people a bone, I bought 16 mil trit at 2.15 p/u and sold the same day at 3.03 p/u Bought 16,000,000 X 2.15 = 34,400,000 Sold 16,000,000 X 3.03 = 48,480,000 Profit = 14,080,000 and ROI of 29% I also picked up a few mods, not giving those away but I purchased @ 570 isk and melted down for the minerals and sold those for around 2,400 per unit purchased netting a whopping ROI of 76%. Thanks again to those that offered advice and encouragement. I have taken a new likening to trading and I count my isk one at a time and have fun doing it. Good work Your lowsec paranoia will decrease over time, and your profits will increase. Run into lowsec enough, and you will eventually hit a gatecamp, and you'll occasionally lose a ship and cargo. As long as you play as smart as you can, and never put all your eggs in one basket, a little loss here and there will do little to derail the money train. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.09.21 01:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Hoshi Edited by: Hoshi on 19/09/2007 10:37:47 3-4 BS would not be able to alpha a correctly setup blockade runner, nor would a login trap be much use. With the increase to agility from the last patch you can warp away very quickly, my crane does it in 2.8 sec and it's the least agile of them all. That means that by the time they have aligned and warped back to the gate you are already 3-4 systems away. And you do know that you can fit a cloak to blockade runners as well don't you? With a blockade runner in lowsec you don't even need scouts, you will just run past gate camps like they weren't even there. Your cloaking myrmidon on the other hand will get caught in the first skilled camp it jumps into. Btw to make you understand how fast the 2.8sec warptime is consider this. A Tempest (fastest locking sniper BS) with signature analysis 5 and 3x t2 sensor boosters take 2.9 sec (+lag) to lock said blockade runner. And that's with the blockade runner having both inertial stabs and shield extenders that increase sig radius and make it faster to lock. So even if they try to insta pop you with a bunch of BS it's won't matter, they can't lock you in time even if they wanted to. this although a remote repped, sensor boosted frig will be able to lock you. as someone else said. although will it be able to put enough points on a transport.
fdsafjdksajfkdjsakfdsa	Posted - 2007.09.21 12:31:00 - [28] Hauler with a mwd + cloak is great for running camps, when uncloaking, activate mwd in a direction of a celestial object (sun or something) and as you do this, deactivate mwd + activate cloak, deactivate cloak and you can insta warp Remember to practice this first, since you need to do it pretty fast
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.09.21 13:46:00 - [29] Originally by: Sicil Fioet But those kinds of camps are very rare as they take effort to setup. Most people just use a few heavy ships to sit on the gate and catch anyone without warp core stabs. Yeah, that's my experience. (warning: i only have little experience with this) They dont' bother with bigger camps because a camp of that size gets lots of prey already. No need to make your life more complicated, and there are less people to distribute the loot, so each camper gets more isk. Basically, a camp to catch a blockade runner will catch also all the haulers that the smaller gatecamp gets. The increase on loot from blockade runners is not enough to offset the smaller share of loot.

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