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RE:Here's my case FOR the reintroduction of static complexes

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Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.19 20:36:00 - [1] I'm sorry about my tone in the last thread, but i was getting bored, sorry. But seriously, I just went through 4 major regions to try and find solo pvp, spent ***** 3 hours. Result was absolutely nothing. I had no less than 3 25+ defense gangs after me, what the ** am i supposed to do with that? The rest cloaked/ctrl+q'ed/jumped/safespotted, most before I even left warp. Now I'm not expecting HONORABLE 1v1s or something, but at least I don't expect to get a 25 man gang vs my little t2 cruiser. With static complexes I could log on after work(which is spawn time for plexes), get to a low-level plex, hang out in my recon or vaga, wait for something to come along, maybe rotate between a couple plexes, get some decent hac vs recon fights in places they couldnt jump in their 15 man gangs without me seeing them coming from a mile away. On alliance level I could hang with the plexing groups and get some small gang fights, which were usually as close to the fights seen in the pvp tourney as you'll ever get in this game. And yes, I lost dozens of ships in plexes, so they weren't just ganks, they were good, solid fights. The plexers even had up to deadspace fitted ships since plexing was actually profitable so people weren't all poor, PVP'ing in the same boring t2 setups. Sure, if someone can tell me where I can find small scale fights, preferably in deadspace so you won't get things cyno'ed on your head(honestly the most annoying one, especially if you think you have a decent fight on your hand), log-in trapped etc. then I'll shut up and listen, but so far no one has come up with an alternative. Before anyone goes "UR JUST GREEDY AND WANT DA ISK AND WE SUCK AT PVP SO WE CANT GET ANY DESPITE THE PLEXES BEING OPEN TO ABSOULTEY EVERYONE AND SPAWNING 3 TIMES A DAY SO HIGHLY ACCESSIBLE NO MATTER WHAT TIMEZONE" then sadly I made most of my isk with T1/T2 production and have enough to last me at least a couple years in eve with just what i have now, so that argument won't hold. Some GM can check if that's possible. Trust me, if you want to get filthy rich in eve then there are far, far easier ways than running static complexes. Last I checked the top 10 list of richest people in eve didn't have a single plexer on it.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:40:00 - [2] why don't you threaten people's family's over it? stop posting ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Erotic Irony why don't you threaten people's family's over it? stop posting Why don't you derail a thread about it. (use "about" instead of "over", it's more pro, and don't use question marks since its so ******* rhetorical that you dont even want people to think they can answer(since they can't))
Schani Kratnorr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:52:00 - [4] The static complexes was always going to be a hot potato, even before they put them in, I recall a lot of debate. Stuff like complexes, conquerable stations, and ore-redistribution all changed the makeup of 0.0. Change is part of the game.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:55:00 - [5] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Erotic Irony why don't you threaten people's family's over it? stop posting Why don't you derail a thread about it. (use "about" instead of "over", it's more pro, and don't use question marks since its so ******* rhetorical that you dont even want people to think they can answer(since they can't)) so bitter, your impotent rage ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.19 21:56:00 - [6] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr The static complexes was always going to be a hot potato, even before they put them in, I recall a lot of debate. Stuff like complexes, conquerable stations, and ore-redistribution all changed the makeup of 0.0. Change is part of the game. Right. If we allowed CCP to ahead with every short-sighted idea they had uncontested then we'd have racial, chance based warp scrambling now. No really, we would.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.09.19 23:35:00 - [7] Quoting this from the other thread, just because I think it's a decent and pragmatic idea: Originally by: Leandro Salazar The problem with plexes was that while a few of them might have been nice PvP places and an incentive to fight for 0.0, the vast majority was indeed just farmable isk for certain people. Moving them to exploration was a good thing imho, the problem here is that exploration of unknowns has been broken for a while now and continues to do so. What I would not mind seeing is the plex to remain for some time (maybe up to a week) but become visible as a beacon on overview (and maybe even on the map) to everyone after the overseer is killed for the first time. This rewards the initial explorer with a 'free' run, and afterwards turns the plex into a possible PvP site and/or a good resource for the local alliance. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.21 10:32:00 - [8] bumpin 4 more opinions~~
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.09.21 14:47:00 - [9] What about adding the possibilty to midify items which are near to static plex moduls? well they will bring in more escalathing path into mission s / hidden gates or what ever , they shoud add stuff, hich is needed to modify/ brand items. Changin plexes to exploration was a good idea . At least the possibilty of farming them is broken now. It shoud never be possible again for alliances using this to fill up there wallets so easy. ( overseers / + ds mods respawns 2 time at day.. every 12 hrs. before in plexes isnt realy fair to all the rest) my 2 cents for this what is needed , is to fill up the " hole" of faction mods vrs deepspace mods. pa example faction hardener 55 % resists vrs 64 % x- type ds hardener. so a modul which need a faction resist hardener as basic + some new ( explored stuff) to upgrade it = a modified " branded" item which stats reach 57-62 % ( upon the quality( eplored stuf)+ skills of the player) just some ideas breg mac "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.21 14:55:00 - [10] Must be nice to get off work just in time for the complexes to spawn. Being in GMT-5 I've never seen the inside of a complex that wasn't empty of npcs. stfu, ead, and diaf. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.

Aerpe Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.09.21 15:19:00 - [11] I think that problem will dissapear with the new pvp content coming.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.22 21:14:00 - [12] Originally by: Xaen Must be nice to get off work just in time for the complexes to spawn. Being in GMT-5 I've never seen the inside of a complex that wasn't empty of npcs. stfu, ead, and diaf. You do know that the ded plexes spawned THREE times a day, right? Oops, guess not. I bet the reason why most people thought the spawn times were unfair was because they didn't realize when they spawned, apart from the post-dt spawn. Originally by: Aerpe I think that problem will dissapear with the new pvp content coming. What are you talking about? Factional warfare? Yeah man, empire wars with newbie corp logistics ships, station camping/deaggro games and ECCM for no reward is what I want more of in eve.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.23 11:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Macmuelli Changin plexes to exploration was a good idea . At least the possibilty of farming them is broken now. It shoud never be possible again for alliances using this to fill up there wallets so easy. ( overseers / + ds mods respawns 2 time at day.. every 12 hrs. before in plexes isnt realy fair to all the rest) my 2 cents for this This is what I was talking about. Plexes didn't respawn every 12 hours, never has. The stronghold/final overseer spawned 3 times a day, exactly every 500 minutes. And again, there are easier ways to fill up your wallet than camping plexes, but that said, since entire wars were fought over them then its only reasonable that they would give out decent rewards. Originally by: Macmuelli what is needed , is to fill up the " hole" of faction mods vrs deepspace mods. pa example faction hardener 55 % resists vrs 64 % x- type ds hardener. so a modul which need a faction resist hardener as basic + some new ( explored stuff) to upgrade it = a modified " branded" item which stats reach 57-62 % ( upon the quality( eplored stuf)+ skills of the player) This is complicated and ********. We already had lower grade deadspace that ranged from 61% something to 54% IIRC, which was worse than t2. Too bad ccp decided to make the plexes that dropped them bugged so even after 2-3 years of having it as a known bug then they didn't fix it.
kimish	Posted - 2007.09.23 11:24:00 - [14] no _____ _____ "When the moderators are gone, the trolls dances on the table."
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.23 19:20:00 - [15] Originally by: kimish no how about yes
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.09.23 22:33:00 - [16] Edited by: Macmuelli on 23/09/2007 22:34:33 Originally by: Macmuelli what is needed , is to fill up the " hole" of faction mods vrs deepspace mods. pa example faction hardener 55 % resists vrs 64 % x- type ds hardener. so a modul which need a faction resist hardener as basic + some new ( explored stuff) to upgrade it = a modified " branded" item which stats reach 57-62 % ( upon the quality( eplored stuf)+ skills of the player) This is complicated and ********. We already had lower grade deadspace that ranged from 61% something to 54% IIRC, which was worse than t2. Too bad ccp decided to make the plexes that dropped them bugged so even after 2-3 years of having it as a known bug then they didn't fix it. Havent see any on contract systems ever so it shoud come via more explorations or by a industrial way. Yupp it is complicated, but woud boost not only the industrial part much more. It woud take effect on mission runners ( if u need faction mods as base item). Exploreres.( if u need items/ mins u can only find in exploration sides) Pvp ( if ppls go the easy way and look for exploreres to get on such items) Perhaps they soud increase or add officers spawns into exploration side s too , to bring more of this stuff into the market?( have never found any so i cant say if or if not aded right now)+( walk on a thin line, cos it coud destroey the t II market completly) Before someone can put his hand into a overloaded jackpot, he should do some realy hard work. "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.23 22:40:00 - [17] OMG you have to do something now. You fly a recon. fit a recon launcher. Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.09.23 22:51:00 - [18] empty plces everywhere bah "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.24 00:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Celeste Coeval OMG you have to do something now. You fly a recon. fit a recon launcher. you cant probe plexes with recon launcher and as i've explained to you, the chances of finding someone running one is like a million to 1, so you'd have to be pretty dumb to be suggesting that.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:11:00 - [20] Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Celeste Coeval OMG you have to do something now. You fly a recon. fit a recon launcher. you cant probe plexes with recon launcher and as i've explained to you, the chances of finding someone running one is like a million to 1, so you'd have to be pretty dumb to be suggesting that. try adding drones to the scan groups. Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.

Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Jita TradeAlt Originally by: Celeste Coeval OMG you have to do something now. You fly a recon. fit a recon launcher. you cant probe plexes with recon launcher and as i've explained to you, the chances of finding someone running one is like a million to 1, so you'd have to be pretty dumb to be suggesting that. try adding drones to the scan groups. try reading my previous post on how the probability of finding someone running a plex, while you're in a ship that can take them on AND can probe AAAANND can catch up before they complete is approaching 0. It's just extremely unlikely and not happening. Believe me, I have tried. It's not like they can't just warp out now that keys arent needed. But again, that's a non issue since i have never even heard about someone catching someone in a ded plex since they were moved to exploration. Which, if you read the thread carefully, is what my entire post was about. Actually, that's if you read any post in this thread that wasnt "HURR FARMERS!!" or "HURR I HAEV TO PVP 4PLEXES ;_;", and even then you should have caught on.
ardik TunkbwahCorp	Posted - 2007.09.24 01:45:00 - [22] Edited by: ardik on 24/09/2007 01:44:56 i agree with the op (o',')b
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.24 17:21:00 - [23] Originally by: Macmuelli Before someone can put his hand into a overloaded jackpot, he should do some realy hard work. Yeah man kicking out entire alliances, taking stations and regions to get access to a plex isn't really "work" right? Like was done many times in practically every war in eve that wasnt a war of annihilation. Basically plexes were the only resource you'd see alliances fighting over. It isn't like there is a single noteworthy 0.0 alliance that doesn't have more belts of bistot/ark than they can ever mine.
Macmuelli Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.09.24 20:09:00 - [24] Before u dont need realy to conquer stations / fighting alliance war to get in such plexes. Log in alts / timing and u coud run it. At least alliances before which playing most time on a timezone which isnt as puiblic as us timezone etc... . ppls form us timezone had make the plexes etc... + a lot of plexes which are not 10/10 ... and not interesting for the big alliances before u could run easier. So it wasent realy hard work. Good timing and knowledge which timezone they are low on memebrs+ serveral log in spots. ( btw most of us have many alts or ? ) anyway....... It woud be nice if ppls had the choise letting plexes/ explorations sides grow. Means step by step better ships equip and at least decent loot if it s on max. ppls coud try to protect it to kill it laeter if its on a full level. It woud be a pvp magnet. perhaps factional warfare will make u happy with smal and solo fights... "Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
Dusty Vortex	Posted - 2007.09.24 21:43:00 - [25] Removing static plexes was a step down for CCP imo, the new system sucks, complexes used to be pvp hotspots where you could always find a fight because everyone wants the good loot for themselves. The new system involves hours and hours of boring scanning to find a complex that will be gone after you run it once. CCP, seriously, What the ****. I far prefer the old system, everyone knew where the plexes were, everyone could attempt to run it and the pvp was better than ever, know why? Because the pvp was meaningful, you were fighting the other player not only for his loot, but mainly because you want to run the complex and not him. Non alliance players had a chance to run complexes especially with the lower level ones, you had 6/10s in empire that accessible to all players. Basically old system = go to plex, possibly run into other players who want to run it also, players fight, winner takes all. That was fun and rewarding at the same time. New system = spend hours scanning, Seriously, i will not spend hours of my so called "fun-time" watching a scan counter tick down whilst hoping to find a complex, THAT ISN'T FUN! Maybe one day you find a plex, you'll be the only one there, that's almost for sure, you run it, get the loot, plex despawns, and that's it. THIS NOT NOT FUN! On a side note faction price has inflated in price hugely since the removal of static complexes, i don't see that as a good thing.
Dusty Vortex	Posted - 2007.09.24 21:51:00 - [26] Edited by: Dusty Vortex on 24/09/2007 21:53:45 Also, the only reason static complexes were removed is because CCP gave into the whining of some players, they shouldn't have. There's a simple fact with MMORPG's, ESPECIALLY pvp based games like EVE, someone will win whilst someone else will lose, the only way to remove that factor is to remove pvp completely. With 50% of players winning and 50% losing, even if only some of the losers whine that is still going to be a lot of whines. The winners won't post on the forum because they feel no need to do so. Some losers however will whine "waa waa, remove static complexes" Simply because they lost to the opposing player and now they feel they need to take some kind of revenge. I thought EVE was about PVP, and not rolling a dice in every system hoping to get lucky (rolling dice = scan probes to find static plexes) Everyone in general gets to run far less complexes now, even those whined about removing them. I say add static complexes back to EVE, but remove the need for gate keys, anyone can go through any gate as long as the npc's are dead. This will help increase pvp and be a tool against people who farm complexes over and over, they can't monopolize the complex so easily when anyone could follow them past the first level and start shooting at them.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.24 22:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Dusty Vortex I say add static complexes back to EVE, but remove the need for gate keys, anyone can go through any gate as long as the npc's are dead. This will help increase pvp and be a tool against people who farm complexes over and over, they can't monopolize the complex so easily when anyone could follow them past the first level and start shooting at them. Actually, most of the time if you were really having a close fight over who was contesting a plex then you'd have spare keys, and practically always with some plexes like the serp 10/10 that gave 2 keys for the last room. But yeah, I agree.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.09.26 17:08:00 - [28] bumpin 4 more opinions~~
podadot	Posted - 2007.09.26 17:23:00 - [29] why not keep the current system but also add higher complexes. right now i believe they go up to 3/10, maybe put in up to, say 7/10. that way the big shots won't have the billion isk/hr faucets, but there will be some decent complexes around.
Winters Chill Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.26 21:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Winters Chill on 26/09/2007 21:41:25 Hmm Im not sure Im qualified to agree with you since Ive only been to 0.0 a handful of times, but I kind of do. Althougth very artifical 0.0 needs unique resources to fight over even (in this cases) if they are only NPC "farms". I do remeber having a great time in some low sec complexs with old corp mates, they really where a great gang warfare trainer, we had a blast and I am sad to see them go. One thing I do agree with in this thread is scan probing is dull and seriously unfun. I could kind of endure it if the rewards where worth it, but they arn't. Its like CCP can't balance thier loot tables, the loot in this game goes from the utterly worthless to stuff worth 40 million in one leap. Would it hurt to give at least "intresting" loot at the end of storyline missions.



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